[NSP] Re: jhf
-Original Message- From: Adrian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 August 2008 00:37 To: nsp Subject: [NSP] jhf I would like a straight version of Forsters 'Jim Halls Fancy' Well you'll not find it on Canal Street! p.s. can I choyt at the Bellingham Show? You can - but don't expect a prize! Tom Clough's Bellingham adjudication speech from the 1930s still applies!! Chris -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited.
[NSP] Re: jhf
On 22 Aug 2008, Ormston, Chris wrote: Bellingham Show? Tom Clough's Bellingham adjudication speech from the 1930s still applies!! October 1923: The chief aim of any player is to produce good music. Now this can only be attained by the proper use of his musical instrument. There are two fundamental principles of good piping, namely winding, and execution on the chanter. The chanter, unlike any other form of pipe is close fingered - it emits no sound when the finger-holes are closed, hence its distinctness. In the hands of an expert the music can be produced with surprising distinctness. The principles mentioned, combined with the proper musical ideas of the performer, makes good piping and tasteful music. Thanks for the warning, Chris! Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: jhf
Thanks - I hope my fingering is more accurate than my memory for dates! Chris Tough on choyting, tough on the causers of choyting -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 August 2008 10:11 To: nsp Subject: [NSP] Re: jhf On 22 Aug 2008, Ormston, Chris wrote: Bellingham Show? Tom Clough's Bellingham adjudication speech from the 1930s still applies!! October 1923: The chief aim of any player is to produce good music. Now this can only be attained by the proper use of his musical instrument. There are two fundamental principles of good piping, namely winding, and execution on the chanter. The chanter, unlike any other form of pipe is close fingered - it emits no sound when the finger-holes are closed, hence its distinctness. In the hands of an expert the music can be produced with surprising distinctness. The principles mentioned, combined with the proper musical ideas of the performer, makes good piping and tasteful music. Thanks for the warning, Chris! Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited.
[NSP] Re: jhf
On 22 Aug 2008, Ormston, Chris wrote: , I've just had an off-list request for an explanation of choyting. Clough described it as To grace a note in the manner of a Highland piper i.e. to play a grace note, then a melody note without silence between the two. and (in reference to the 1895 Fenwick tutor): Regarding the shake: In many instances it is understood and played by pipers in the following manner: They lift the principal note, and successively strike the note above while the principal note is kept running. A grievous error in smallpipe playing. Clough had been asked for his opinion on an update of the tutor to be published in 1931, and I added a note to the above paragraph: Clough was adamant that this, a technical description of a trill and an inverted mordent, should be omitted - it was not, but a note was added to the effect that lifting several fingers at once was not good technique. For me, the skill of Northumbrian piping is to play without resorting to open gracings. I interpret that as obeying the one finger off at a time rule at all times, (when possible - it isn't if you're going to use finger vibrato) but I get my ear bent that I'm ower rigorous in my interpretation. And doubtless will again after this post! Adrian gives an excellent description of the top a to g note gracing as sounding like a seagull in pain if not executed properly, which is one prominent example of open gracing very commonly heard. HTH Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: jhf
Adrian gives an excellent description of the top a to g note gracing as sounding like a seagull in pain if not executed properly, which is one prominent example of open gracing very commonly heard. Not executed properly? But isn't it meant to sound like that? The cry of the curlew, bleating of sheep etc John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 August 2008 11:10 To: nsp; Ormston, Chris Subject: [NSP] Re: jhf On 22 Aug 2008, Ormston, Chris wrote: , I've just had an off-list request for an explanation of choyting. Clough described it as To grace a note in the manner of a Highland piper i.e. to play a grace note, then a melody note without silence between the two. and (in reference to the 1895 Fenwick tutor): Regarding the shake: In many instances it is understood and played by pipers in the following manner: They lift the principal note, and successively strike the note above while the principal note is kept running. A grievous error in smallpipe playing. Clough had been asked for his opinion on an update of the tutor to be published in 1931, and I added a note to the above paragraph: Clough was adamant that this, a technical description of a trill and an inverted mordent, should be omitted - it was not, but a note was added to the effect that lifting several fingers at once was not good technique. For me, the skill of Northumbrian piping is to play without resorting to open gracings. I interpret that as obeying the one finger off at a time rule at all times, (when possible - it isn't if you're going to use finger vibrato) but I get my ear bent that I'm ower rigorous in my interpretation. And doubtless will again after this post! Adrian gives an excellent description of the top a to g note gracing as sounding like a seagull in pain if not executed properly, which is one prominent example of open gracing very commonly heard. HTH Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: jhf
Just this morning I couldn't hear the pit hooter for all those pesky curlews and sheep! Chris -Original Message- From: Gibbons, John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 August 2008 11:16 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: jhf Adrian gives an excellent description of the top a to g note gracing as sounding like a seagull in pain if not executed properly, which is one prominent example of open gracing very commonly heard. Not executed properly? But isn't it meant to sound like that? The cry of the curlew, bleating of sheep etc John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 August 2008 11:10 To: nsp; Ormston, Chris Subject: [NSP] Re: jhf On 22 Aug 2008, Ormston, Chris wrote: , I've just had an off-list request for an explanation of choyting. Clough described it as To grace a note in the manner of a Highland piper i.e. to play a grace note, then a melody note without silence between the two. and (in reference to the 1895 Fenwick tutor): Regarding the shake: In many instances it is understood and played by pipers in the following manner: They lift the principal note, and successively strike the note above while the principal note is kept running. A grievous error in smallpipe playing. Clough had been asked for his opinion on an update of the tutor to be published in 1931, and I added a note to the above paragraph: Clough was adamant that this, a technical description of a trill and an inverted mordent, should be omitted - it was not, but a note was added to the effect that lifting several fingers at once was not good technique. For me, the skill of Northumbrian piping is to play without resorting to open gracings. I interpret that as obeying the one finger off at a time rule at all times, (when possible - it isn't if you're going to use finger vibrato) but I get my ear bent that I'm ower rigorous in my interpretation. And doubtless will again after this post! Adrian gives an excellent description of the top a to g note gracing as sounding like a seagull in pain if not executed properly, which is one prominent example of open gracing very commonly heard. HTH Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited.
[NSP] Re: jhf
On 22 Aug 2008, Gibbons, John wrote: Not executed properly? But isn't it meant to sound like that? The cry of the curlew, bleating of sheep etc I withdraw that comment - possibly it's the piper doing it who should be executed properly. v. big grin Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: jhf
While we're fortunate to have some written evidence of Clough's thoughts on all this, it's important to recognise other examples of clean, closed fingering from recent history - it's not just a Clough thing. Joe Hutton's playing clearly demonstrated detached fingering and contained few open gracings, and I'd urge readers to listen to his earlier recordings - those made when he was a well man and before his focus drifted from Northumbrian to strict tempo Scottish Country dance repertoire. George Atkinson's name appears again and again on the competition cups, and his contributions on the Wild Hills of Wannies LP shows why - some of the most clear, musical interpretations of hornpipes you could wish for! Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 August 2008 11:10 To: nsp; Ormston, Chris Subject: [NSP] Re: jhf On 22 Aug 2008, Ormston, Chris wrote: , I've just had an off-list request for an explanation of choyting. Clough described it as To grace a note in the manner of a Highland piper i.e. to play a grace note, then a melody note without silence between the two. and (in reference to the 1895 Fenwick tutor): Regarding the shake: In many instances it is understood and played by pipers in the following manner: They lift the principal note, and successively strike the note above while the principal note is kept running. A grievous error in smallpipe playing. Clough had been asked for his opinion on an update of the tutor to be published in 1931, and I added a note to the above paragraph: Clough was adamant that this, a technical description of a trill and an inverted mordent, should be omitted - it was not, but a note was added to the effect that lifting several fingers at once was not good technique. For me, the skill of Northumbrian piping is to play without resorting to open gracings. I interpret that as obeying the one finger off at a time rule at all times, (when possible - it isn't if you're going to use finger vibrato) but I get my ear bent that I'm ower rigorous in my interpretation. And doubtless will again after this post! Adrian gives an excellent description of the top a to g note gracing as sounding like a seagull in pain if not executed properly, which is one prominent example of open gracing very commonly heard. HTH Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html The information contained in this e-mail may be subject to public disclosure under the NHS Code of Openness or the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Unless the information is legally exempt, the confidentiality of this e-mail and your reply cannot be guaranteed. Unless expressly stated otherwise, the information contained in this e-mail is intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient you must not copy, distribute, or take any action or reliance upon it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender. Any unauthorised disclosure of the information contained in this e-mail is strictly prohibited.
[NSP] Re: jhf
On 22 Aug 2008, Ormston, Chris wrote: it's not just a Clough thing. Joe Hutton's playing clearly demonstrated detached fingering and contained few open gracings, and I'd urge readers to listen to his earlier recordings . George Atkinson's name appears again and again on the competition cups, and his contributions on the Wild Hills of Wannies LP shows why - Joe was taught by GG Armstrong, and within my time (1992 or 3, I would think) remarked in a teaching situation that it was not the notes that were important as the spaces in between. I learnt a lot from him - possibly not always what he was trying to teach. Do we know who George A's teachers were - if any? The influence of GGA, himself taught by Clough, is much underrated, I think. I remember meeting the late John Miller (also a GGA pupil) in NZ in 2001, hearing him play, and sensing how strongly his style was a product of his teaching, even after 40-50 years at the other end of the world. It contrasted so much with what the rest of us were playing, in a group... Ouch Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: jhf
On 22 Aug 2008, Ormston, Chris wrote: I may have imagined this, but I've a feeling GGA was involved in George Atkinson's tuition. Ah. I thought so, but couldn't place where I'd heard it. Thanks for getting me going about piping ensembles too - was it intentional??? No, it just sort of came out. But let's go with it 2) More than 3 sets of NSP in ensemble starts to sound like one of those kazoo-based Juvenile Jazz bands e had in the 1960s How many sets were on Cut Dry? Compare and contrast the tracks with only one or two, versus the ones where more than that were playing, maybe And if you start with a group where most of the sets sound like kazoos anyway, whether naturally or thanks to their players, there isn't a hope. 3) Plaid is bad or at least (as far as pipers were concerned) a Victorian invention by the 4th Duke, who wanted to keep up with the MacJones's north of him in the great tartan craze of the 1820s / 30s. I don't doubt that some local shepherds did actually use them before that - I've been told the weave was different in each valley so that when a frozen corpse was found on the hills in the spring the body could be identified. Even then the Duke's piper was / is the only one to whom it was / is relevant, and the first one of those to use the whole rig out - blackcock feather and all was Jack Armstrong, piper from 1949-78, although James Hall came close in the late C19 Traditional? I don't think so. Expedient on occasion today? Probably. Enough folk have got them that I needn't bother. Phew Used to cover musical deficiency? You may so, I couldn't possibly comment! Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
