Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
Hi all, I checked in some Persian printed books, and noticed that the rule is to write 18% or rather ۱۸% However I don't know of any book in Persian on rules of typography. But I am asking some people in Iran about the issue. Regarding the treatment of numbers, indeed numbers are written (and read…) in the usual way, but in XeConTeXt or in XeTeX (I don't know still how to typeset an Arabic or Persian file with mkiv LuaTeX), there is an issue with separators of digits: for instance if one writes (in the source file) ۱۲۳ ۴۵۶ ۷۸۹ (meaning 123 456 789, using a space as a separator between thousands) then one gets in the typeset file ۷۸۹ ۴۵۶ ۱۲۳ that is 789 456 123. To overcome this issue one may write \beginL ۱۲۳ ۴۵۶ ۷۸۹ \endL and then the output is correct, but there is a slight modification of the alignment and the treatment of glues (if I don't misinterpret). While if one uses a comma (that is U+002C, this is the comma for LR, while the comma for RL, the Arabic Comma, is U+060C) as in ۱۲۳{,}۴۵۶{,}۷۸۹ or ۱۲۳,۴۵۶,۷۸۹ or a dot (that is U+002E, which is indeed the same when writing LR or RL) as in ۱۲۳.۴۵۶.۷۸۹ then the output is correct. It should be feasible to have a mechanism allowing the user to enforce a certain type of separator between groups of digits, and this separator can be a space. Best regards: OK On 31 janv. 08, at 23:42, Hans Hagen wrote: > Peter Münster wrote: >> On Thu, Jan 31 2008, Steffen Wolfrum wrote: >>> Any native arabic speaker out there? Is it %18 or 18% ?? >> >> Hello, >> >> I don't know nothing about Arabic script, but wouldn't it be logic >> to ask >> for "%81 or 18%" ? > > interesting point ... ok, small numbers, but how about > > [bara erom] 12.472.477 [bara emos] > > [bara erom] 774.274.21 [bara emos] > > for long numbers a pretty fast reversing mind is needed > > math goes from left to right but i once heard a talk about a > tendency to > go right - left as well (including mirrored symbols like \sum) > > > - > Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE > Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands > tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com > | www.pragma-pod.nl > - > ___ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an > entry to the Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
> [bara erom] 12.472.477 [bara emos] > > [bara erom] 774.274.21 [bara emos] > > for long numbers a pretty fast reversing mind is needed I think you're mistaken about the flexibility of human mind. Eight digits may look like a lot, but that's really not a long string compared to an average line width, and it does not take a lot of effort for the reader to look ahead for the start of the number. And eight digits is probably the longest it gets anyway (OK, maybe 12, but a 15-digit number would be difficult to read for anyone in any language). Actually you should look at it as a cultural difference, even if it interferes with scientific notation (and if you think about it, the percent sign is a scientific one, even if a rather simple and widely used one). And I'm sure you know how natural each person can find his own culture, while others would be puzzled by aspects of it. Hey, you're Dutch; doesn't that number read something like "twelve millions four hundred two and seventy thousands four hundred seven and seventy" in Dutch? (What else do German, Dutch, Arabic and Slovenian have in common?) And yet I'm sure you would read it out loud without hesitation (OK, you might say that you're only reversing two digits at a time, but I could reply that the way I see it, they are interspersed more or less arbitrarily). > math goes from left to right but i once heard a talk about a tendency to > go right - left as well (including mirrored symbols like \sum) That's standard in Maghreb as far as I know. Arthur ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] latest beta
Thomas A. Schmitz wrote: > On Jan 31, 2008, at 11:17 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: > >> ok, i'll make a new beta zip; i dunny what went wrong; normally >> there is >> no reason to delete the cache; can you test again? >> >> Hans > > > Great, this one works! Thanks for your swift action, Hans. I haven't > played with zipped trees yet, but will try to do so. No fea support > yet, I suppose? no, but this is more luatex related (i think); it seems that ff can merge fea files now so this will also show up in luatex Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:42:53 -0700, Hans Hagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > interesting point ... ok, small numbers, but how about > > [bara erom] 12.472.477 [bara emos] > > [bara erom] 774.274.21 [bara emos] IIRC Persian and Arabic have diffferent rules; I need to research this again (check urdu too)... will report back. Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:35:35 -0700, Peter Münster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31 2008, Steffen Wolfrum wrote: >> >> Any native arabic speaker out there? Is it %18 or 18% ?? > > Hello, > > I don't know nothing about Arabic script, but wouldn't it be logic to ask > for "%81 or 18%" ? Hmm, this could be a long discussion... In ancient times, Arabic numerals (whence our own) were pronounced as follows (translation): 1234 => "4 and 30 and 2 hundred and a thousand" Writing from right to left one would write 4 first, then 3, etc., giving the same output as writing from left to right. So the oft-repeated mantra that "numbering in Arabic is LR" is a half-truth. Today, Arabs, Persians etc. read numerals the same way westerners do; so the effect is that it is more convenient to enter numeral-strings as LR. But when the numbers were read in reverse (actually it is we that read numbers in reverse when you think about it, "Arabic numerals" after all) they were written RL and looked the same as our LR version. So taking Peter's logic to its conclusion we should be writing 18 as 81, not the other way around ;-) Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: > On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:25:45 -0700, Henning Hraban Ramm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > Any native arabic speaker out there? Is it %18 or 18% ?? > >>> These subtlties need to be addressed for proper high-level handling of >>> Arabic-script in ConTeXt/mkiv. >> Hm, reminds me of conventions where you place currency symbols - >> depending on if you live in a economist/accountant surrounding... >> >> Do you think some automated handling of such is possible at all? > > One can already handle this sort of thing using Omega Translation > Processes, which luaTeX supports. For example, there is an otp which makes > sure that numeral-strings are always treated as LR, otherwise 1234 would > come out as 4321. I suppose translating these rules into lua and/or > opentype rules should be easy... i can add this to the arab analyzer (just inject direction nodes around numbers) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:25:45 -0700, Henning Hraban Ramm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> Any native arabic speaker out there? Is it %18 or 18% ?? >> These subtlties need to be addressed for proper high-level handling of >> Arabic-script in ConTeXt/mkiv. > > Hm, reminds me of conventions where you place currency symbols - > depending on if you live in a economist/accountant surrounding... > > Do you think some automated handling of such is possible at all? One can already handle this sort of thing using Omega Translation Processes, which luaTeX supports. For example, there is an otp which makes sure that numeral-strings are always treated as LR, otherwise 1234 would come out as 4321. I suppose translating these rules into lua and/or opentype rules should be easy... Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
Peter Münster wrote: > On Thu, Jan 31 2008, Steffen Wolfrum wrote: >> Any native arabic speaker out there? Is it %18 or 18% ?? > > Hello, > > I don't know nothing about Arabic script, but wouldn't it be logic to ask > for "%81 or 18%" ? interesting point ... ok, small numbers, but how about [bara erom] 12.472.477 [bara emos] [bara erom] 774.274.21 [bara emos] for long numbers a pretty fast reversing mind is needed math goes from left to right but i once heard a talk about a tendency to go right - left as well (including mirrored symbols like \sum) - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
On Thu, Jan 31 2008, Steffen Wolfrum wrote: > > Any native arabic speaker out there? Is it %18 or 18% ?? Hello, I don't know nothing about Arabic script, but wouldn't it be logic to ask for "%81 or 18%" ? Cheers, Peter -- http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] latest beta
On Jan 31, 2008, at 11:17 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: > ok, i'll make a new beta zip; i dunny what went wrong; normally > there is > no reason to delete the cache; can you test again? > > Hans Great, this one works! Thanks for your swift action, Hans. I haven't played with zipped trees yet, but will try to do so. No fea support yet, I suppose? Thanks Thomas ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] latest beta
On Jan 31, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: > ok, i'll check it (there have been changes to the underlying file > handling); did you do a luatools --generate before making the formats? Yes, sure; I still have the habit of having my luatex-cache in /tmp and deleting it before every upgrade. Thomas ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] latest beta
Thomas A. Schmitz wrote: > > On Jan 31, 2008, at 10:43 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: > >> Thomas A. Schmitz wrote: >>> Hi Hans, >>> great: I now get Greek hyphenation with XeTeX as well! However, >>> there's a problem with mkiv: none of my mkiv-typescripts works with >>> it; I always get this error: >>> This went wrong: ...al/texlive/texmf-local/tex/context/base/luat- >>> tmp.lua:121: attempt to call field 'is_writable' (a nil value) >>> . >> >> file.is_writable >> >> seems that your l-file.lua is not loaded or bugged >> > > my l-file.lua only has a function file.is_readable, not file.is_writable. btw, the syntax for for zip files has been changd: zip:///somefile.zip?name=somefile.tex zip:tmp/whatevere/somefile.zip?name=/place/inzip/somefile.tex the following registers a zip file as being a tex tree (with its search methods) \usezipfile[texmf-project.zip] this installs only the texmf-project sub path from the zip \usezipfile[tex.zip][texmf-project] in case of unknown paths ... \input */whatever.tex should work too (searches all registered trees) etc etc ... more documentation will follow; still somewhat experimental Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] latest beta
Thomas A. Schmitz wrote: > On Jan 31, 2008, at 10:40 PM, Hans Hagen wrote: > >> ok, i'll check it (there have been changes to the underlying file >> handling); did you do a luatools --generate before making the formats? > > Yes, sure; I still have the habit of having my luatex-cache in /tmp > and deleting it before every upgrade. ok, i'll make a new beta zip; i dunny what went wrong; normally there is no reason to delete the cache; can you test again? Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] latest beta
Thomas A. Schmitz wrote: > Hi Hans, > > great: I now get Greek hyphenation with XeTeX as well! However, > there's a problem with mkiv: none of my mkiv-typescripts works with > it; I always get this error: > > This went wrong: ...al/texlive/texmf-local/tex/context/base/luat- > tmp.lua:121: attempt to call field 'is_writable' (a nil value) > . > > \relax > \xxdododefinefont ...tspec {#4}\newfontidentifier >\let > \localrelativefontsiz... > \fontstrategy ...me \fontclass #2#3#4#5\endcsname >\tryingfontfalse \fi > ...yle \fontalternative \fontsize >\fi \iftryingfont > \fontstr... > \synchronizefont ...strategy \the \fontstrategies >\relax \fi > \iftryingfont \... > \getvalue [EMAIL PROTECTED]@ \fontstyle } > \edef \fontstyle > {\fontstyle }\if... > > l.3 \setupbodyfont[MyAGaramond,12pt] > > It works with vanilla LatinModern, and the same typescripts work with > yesterday's beta. ok, i'll check it (there have been changes to the underlying file handling); did you do a luatools --generate before making the formats? - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] latest beta
Hi Hans, great: I now get Greek hyphenation with XeTeX as well! However, there's a problem with mkiv: none of my mkiv-typescripts works with it; I always get this error: This went wrong: ...al/texlive/texmf-local/tex/context/base/luat- tmp.lua:121: attempt to call field 'is_writable' (a nil value) . \relax \xxdododefinefont ...tspec {#4}\newfontidentifier \let \localrelativefontsiz... \fontstrategy ...me \fontclass #2#3#4#5\endcsname \tryingfontfalse \fi ...yle \fontalternative \fontsize \fi \iftryingfont \fontstr... \synchronizefont ...strategy \the \fontstrategies \relax \fi \iftryingfont \... \getvalue [EMAIL PROTECTED]@ \fontstyle } \edef \fontstyle {\fontstyle }\if... ... l.3 \setupbodyfont[MyAGaramond,12pt] It works with vanilla LatinModern, and the same typescripts work with yesterday's beta. All best Thomas ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
Am 2008-01-31 um 16:08 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid: >> I have often seen (in arabic newpapers) the percentage sign set left >> to the number "% 18". >> Recently I read an article (http://sehstoerung.sonance.net/pdfs/ >> TitusNemeth_dissertation.pdf) that calls this "... the incorrect >> placement of the percentage sign". >> >> Any native arabic speaker out there? Is it %18 or 18% ?? > > It really depends on where you live. In Persian, 18% is common, among > Arabs, %18. Both languages are left-to-right, but there is more > than one > convention for dealing with mathematical directionality. > > Some of these issues are still being worked about in the Arabic-script > world. > > These subtlties need to be addressed for proper high-level handling of > Arabic-script in ConTeXt/mkiv. Hm, reminds me of conventions where you place currency symbols - depending on if you live in a economist/accountant surrounding... Do you think some automated handling of such is possible at all? I know nothing about Arabic script, of course... Greetlings from Lake Constance! Hraban --- http://www.fiee.net/texnique/ http://wiki.contextgarden.net https://www.cacert.org (I'm an assurer) ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:08:45 -0700, Idris Samawi Hamid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Both languages are left-to-right, RTL, of course... I -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
Am 31.01.2008 um 16:08 schrieb Idris Samawi Hamid: >> Any native arabic speaker out there? Is it %18 or 18% ?? > > It really depends on where you live. In Persian, 18% is common, among > Arabs, %18. Both languages are left-to-right, but there is more > than one > convention for dealing with mathematical directionality. > > Some of these issues are still being worked about in the Arabic-script > world. That's what I suspected ... > These subtlties need to be addressed for proper high-level handling of > Arabic-script in ConTeXt/mkiv. Yes!! > Best wishes > Idris Thanks, Steffen ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:27:16 -0700, Steffen Wolfrum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I have often seen (in arabic newpapers) the percentage sign set left > to the number "% 18". > Recently I read an article (http://sehstoerung.sonance.net/pdfs/ > TitusNemeth_dissertation.pdf) that calls this "... the incorrect > placement of the percentage sign". > > Any native arabic speaker out there? Is it %18 or 18% ?? It really depends on where you live. In Persian, 18% is common, among Arabs, %18. Both languages are left-to-right, but there is more than one convention for dealing with mathematical directionality. Some of these issues are still being worked about in the Arabic-script world. These subtlties need to be addressed for proper high-level handling of Arabic-script in ConTeXt/mkiv. Best wishes Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid, Editor-in-Chief International Journal of Shi`i Studies Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] \everymath and ' accent
Selon Hans Hagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > it's pretty dangerous to overload \everymath Yes, I guess so! It was just to see the difference between LaTeX and ConTeXt in this case. > maybe \appendtoks\displaystyle\to\everymath works Indeed, thank you! What I need actually is to modify $.$ locally (in a tikz picture) to produce \displaystyle maths. I don't know what is the best way to achieve this. Is it to use \appendtoks like above? Best regards, Morgan > > Hans > > > - >Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE >Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands > tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com > | www.pragma-pod.nl > - > ___ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the > Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___ > ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] \everymath and ' accent
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi everyone, > > This topic has already been discussed on the list, but I didn't clearly > understand the conclusion, so I'm asking again... It is not clear to me why > the > following > > \everymath{\displaystyle} > \starttext > \startformula \frac{1}{A'} \stopformula > $\frac{1}{A'}$ > \stoptext > > fails with ConTeXt (on the ' inside $.$), while > > \documentclass{minimal} > \everymath{\displaystyle} > \begin{document} > \[ \frac{1}{A'} \] > $\frac{1}{A'}$ > \end{document} > > is ok with LaTeX. > > The use of \everymath is to blame here, but why? it's pretty dangerous to overload \everymath maybe \appendtoks\displaystyle\to\everymath works Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] \everymath and ' accent
Hi everyone, This topic has already been discussed on the list, but I didn't clearly understand the conclusion, so I'm asking again... It is not clear to me why the following \everymath{\displaystyle} \starttext \startformula \frac{1}{A'} \stopformula $\frac{1}{A'}$ \stoptext fails with ConTeXt (on the ' inside $.$), while \documentclass{minimal} \everymath{\displaystyle} \begin{document} \[ \frac{1}{A'} \] $\frac{1}{A'}$ \end{document} is ok with LaTeX. The use of \everymath is to blame here, but why? Thanks in advance! Morgan ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Indenting (again!): a real problem in indentnext=yes
Selon Taco Hoekwater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Ok, it's clearer to me now. Then I've got one last question on the subject: > I > > didn't manage to have paragraph indented inside an 'enumeration' block, is > there > > an option to do that? Thank you for your patience! > > It is indeed possible, but the how is not very intuitive: > >\startitemize[command=\indent] % or \setupitemize[each][command...] >\item >\stopitemize > > the output looks dreadful to my eyes, and I really doubt this > will ever become more easily supported. Sorry, I wasn't precise enough: I would like to indent paragraphs inside a block created with \defineenumeration (like theorems...), not inside an itemize block. The output in this latter case is indeed quite awful. > > > I still think that it would be great to have one option to indent > absolutely all > > paragraphs... > > Is 'absolutely all' including the one above? What about float captions? > And multi-line entries in tables? Or table of contents items? Or synonym > entries? Footnotes? By 'absolutely all', I mean just like when you use \setlength{\parindent}{1em} in LaTeX (plus eventually the indentfirst package for indenting after heads). Every paragraph (preceded by an empty line or \par) in the "text flow" will get indented, independently of: * what is above (formula, float, etc) * what environment it belongs to (quote, theorem, abstract, etc.), as long as this environment doesn't need alignment (like itemize, tabular, etc.) Of course, "particular" objects like captions, tables, footnotes, won't be concerned by indenting. I hope my explanations were clear enough... If needed, I can write a small LaTeX example and send it to the list. Best regards, Morgan ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
Dear Steffen, Arabic is read from right to left, so the the % sign in front of the number, if you read from right to left, becomes actually after the number. One of my co-worker originally from Lebanon confirmed this. Kind regards, Dietrich -- Mr. Dietrich Rordorf MDPI Center Matthaeusstrasse 11 CH-4057 Basel Switzerland E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Skype: d.rordorf Tel. +41 61 683 77 34 (office) Tel. +41 76 561 41 83 (mobile) Fax +41 61 302 89 18 Steffen Wolfrum wrote: > Hi, > > I have often seen (in arabic newpapers) the percentage sign set left > to the number "% 18". > Recently I read an article (http://sehstoerung.sonance.net/pdfs/ > TitusNemeth_dissertation.pdf) that calls this "... the incorrect > placement of the percentage sign". > > Any native arabic speaker out there? Is it %18 or 18% ?? > > > Thanks, > > Steffen > ___ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the > Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___ > ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Indenting (again!): a real problem in indentnext=yes
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Ok, it's clearer to me now. Then I've got one last question on the subject: I > didn't manage to have paragraph indented inside an 'enumeration' block, is > there > an option to do that? Thank you for your patience! It is indeed possible, but the how is not very intuitive: \startitemize[command=\indent] % or \setupitemize[each][command...] \item \stopitemize the output looks dreadful to my eyes, and I really doubt this will ever become more easily supported. > I still think that it would be great to have one option to indent absolutely > all > paragraphs... Is 'absolutely all' including the one above? What about float captions? And multi-line entries in tables? Or table of contents items? Or synonym entries? Footnotes? Best wishes, Taco ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] The point about theorems
Selon Aditya Mahajan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > Selon Aditya Mahajan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > >> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > I need to typeset theorems with ConTeXt, and I would like to get your > >> advice > >> > before I begin. I read an interesting post about it on the dev list: > >> > > >> > Enhancements to core-des for theorems > >> > > http://archive.contextgarden.net/message/20070601.055815.50e07e4d.en.html > >> > > >> > But I was unable to understand the very conclusion of it... Are there > some > >> > particular commands concerning theorems? or is \setupenumerations the > only > >> > solution? > >> > >> Enumerations have been enhanced to take care of theorems. See if the > >> examples on the mailing list can get you started. Otherwise, just ask > >> here. > > > > Thank you. Actually, I already have a question about the endmarker > > option. The > > following example doesn't produce any endmark. Am I missing anything? > > Yes, the sanitizing of options done by Hans. Use closesymbol=X. Thank you, Aditya. I hadn't noticed that... Best regards, Morgan > > Aditya > > > \defineenumeration[theorem][endmarker=X] > > \starttext > > \starttheorem > > Hello > > \stoptheorem > > \stoptext > > > > ___ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the > Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___ > ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] Indenting (again!): a real problem in indentnext=yes
Selon Taco Hoekwater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Ah, misunderstood. You want > >> > >>\setupformulae[indentnext=auto] > > > > Thank you, Taco! And may I ask the difference with the 'yes' option? Is it > > documented somewhere? I'm having a real hard time understanding all the > > mechanisms of indenting in ConTeXt... > > The 'auto' indents the next paragraph, but only if it is a separate > paragraph (empty line or \par command following the \stop.. command) Thank you, that's precisely what I needed. > > Indenting is not much more complex than this: there is \indenting > with its (pretty long) list of arguments, and then there are the > indentnext=[yes|no|auto] option available after various block-creation > commands. > > The indentnext key is relatively new, and is added for requests > similar to yours, but at a smaller scale. Some layouts ask for > indentation after itemizations but not after floats, sometimes there > is a need for 'auto' for formulae but often you really want 'no', > some styles indent after block quotations, others dont, etc. etc. Ok, it's clearer to me now. Then I've got one last question on the subject: I didn't manage to have paragraph indented inside an 'enumeration' block, is there an option to do that? Thank you for your patience! I still think that it would be great to have one option to indent absolutely all paragraphs... Best regards, Morgan > > Best wishes, > Taco > ___ > If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the > Wiki! > > maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context > webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net > archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ > wiki : http://contextgarden.net > ___ > ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] %18 or 18% : incorrect placement of the percentage sign ?
Hi, I have often seen (in arabic newpapers) the percentage sign set left to the number "% 18". Recently I read an article (http://sehstoerung.sonance.net/pdfs/ TitusNemeth_dissertation.pdf) that calls this "... the incorrect placement of the percentage sign". Any native arabic speaker out there? Is it %18 or 18% ?? Thanks, Steffen ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] ConTeXt CALS table XML > pdf
Tex User wrote: > Dear ConTeXt users, > I am ConTeXt newbie. I want to typeset my table coded in CALS xml > format to pdf. > > I am not sure how to define the spanning columns like > > bb cc entry> > > in \defineXMLnested [entry] \bTD \eTD > > please help. if you use context mkiv with luatex, cals is supported in the x-cals* files (including some control over output); this is to be documented (deadline is the upcoming context conference) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] ConTeXt CALS table XML > pdf
Dear ConTeXt users, I am ConTeXt newbie. I want to typeset my table coded in CALS xml format to pdf. I am not sure how to define the spanning columns like bb cc in \defineXMLnested [entry] \bTD \eTD please help. - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___