Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 01:50:35PM -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: > On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:44:19 -0600, Khaled Hosny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>> Get SC unipad and type identical logical input in Arabic and Farsi >>> modes. >>> The makers of Unipad are Iranian and they implement both Ar

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:44:19 -0600, Khaled Hosny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Get SC unipad and type identical logical input in Arabic and Farsi modes. The makers of Unipad are Iranian and they implement both Arabic and Farsi rules correctly, have keyboards etc. AFAIK, no other editor imple

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 09:22:58AM -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: > Hi Arthur, > > On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 02:29:00 -0600, Arthur Reutenauer > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Thanks for the answer (I should have known the results depended on the > > actual configuration :-) > > Get SC unipad

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Hi Arthur, On Wed, 18 Jun 2008 02:29:00 -0600, Arthur Reutenauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks for the answer (I should have known the results depended on the > actual configuration :-) Get SC unipad and type identical logical input in Arabic and Farsi modes. The makers of Unipad are

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Hello Otared, Thanks for the answer (I should have known the results depended on the actual configuration :-) Arthur ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

On 10 juin 08, at 23:30, Arthur Reutenauer wrote: > […] > Maybe people on the list from Arabic-speaking countries, Israel or > Iran can tell us more (in > particular, what do one type on a standard keyboard to input an > opening > bracket?). > > Arthur Hi Arthur, Sorry for answering t

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

On Sun, Jun 15, 2008 at 03:42:30PM -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:32:40 -0600, Hans Hagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > currently there is no reset command but you can say > > \setcharactermirroring[-1] > > since -1 resets an attribute > > I tried that, but the resul

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: > Hi Khaled, > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:52:27 -0600, Khaled Hosny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>> experimental in the beta >>> >>> \setcharactermirroring[1] >> >> It does work perfectly with unidirectional texts (RTL or LTR), but when >> mixing bi-directional text, l

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:32:40 -0600, Hans Hagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > currently there is no reset command but you can say > \setcharactermirroring[-1] > since -1 resets an attribute I tried that, but the result is the same: first occurrence of an RL open-paren in an LR paragraph is mis-mi

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: > On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:32:40 -0600, Hans Hagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> \setcharactermirroring[0,1] works in both uni- and bi-directional text >>> -- note that each bracketpair is inside of its respective directional >>> context. >> i wonder what gives you the i

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:32:40 -0600, Hans Hagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> \setcharactermirroring[0,1] works in both uni- and bi-directional text >> -- note that each bracketpair is inside of its respective directional >> context. > > i wonder what gives you the impression that you can use 0.1 a

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Khaled Hosny wrote: > On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 11:08:09PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: >> Khaled Hosny wrote: >>> Luatex does not mirror characters that has a Bidi_Mirrored property when >>> the text direction is set to RTL (TRT in Aleph), according to >>> http://unicode.org/reports/tr9/#Mirroring, the

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: > Hi Khaled, > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:52:27 -0600, Khaled Hosny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>> experimental in the beta >>> >>> \setcharactermirroring[1] >> >> It does work perfectly with unidirectional texts (RTL or LTR), but when >> mixing bi-directional text, l

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 07:34:03PM -0600, Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: > Hi Khaled, > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:52:27 -0600, Khaled Hosny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >>> experimental in the beta >>> >>> \setcharactermirroring[1] >> >> It does work perfectly with unidirectional texts (RTL or LTR),

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Hi Khaled, On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:52:27 -0600, Khaled Hosny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: experimental in the beta \setcharactermirroring[1] It does work perfectly with unidirectional texts (RTL or LTR), but when mixing bi-directional text, like Arabic text between brackets inside English li

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 11:08:09PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: > Khaled Hosny wrote: > > Luatex does not mirror characters that has a Bidi_Mirrored property when > > the text direction is set to RTL (TRT in Aleph), according to > > http://unicode.org/reports/tr9/#Mirroring, the different types of > >

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

> do you have any idea why is arab treated special? Arabic letters behave differently from Hebrew, Thaana, etc. in particular in the vicinity of European digits. But the difference is quite minute. Arthur _

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

> sure but originally they were in ascii just ( and ) and not some generic > opener and closer I did not mean ASCII ... in the 8-bit encodings for Arabic that built over ASCII (ISO 8859-6, Windows-1256, etc.) there also was a single couple of parentheses, and I don't think they had a different

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Arthur Reutenauer wrote: >> btw is there a reason why in bidi arabic r->l is tagged 'al' and not 'r'? > > Arabic Letter. Basic right-to-left characters have type R. do you have any idea why is arab treated special? -

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

> btw is there a reason why in bidi arabic r->l is tagged 'al' and not 'r'? Arabic Letter. Basic right-to-left characters have type R. Arthur ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please ad

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Arthur Reutenauer wrote: >> if for instance ( ) are officially not symbols but open/close thingies, >> then we need to deal with them > > Yes, they are. That's what the Bidi_Mirrored property is for. > >>(although i then wonder why we have no >> proper open/cl

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

> if for instance ( ) are officially not symbols but open/close thingies, > then we need to deal with them Yes, they are. That's what the Bidi_Mirrored property is for. >(although i then wonder why we have no > proper open/close code point for them instead of

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: > This issue needs to be looked at in the larger context of bidi in luatex. > For example, we need a flexible model to implement Bidirectional Character > Types. For example, we need an option that will recognize certain > character-types as RL and switch directions

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: > Granted. The main point is that we have to reinterpret bidi in way that > fits with TeX's/ConTeXt's needs, idiosyncracies, etc I don't believe > we need to treat the unicode bidi algorithm as canonical. i think that we should stick to things that make sense; wi

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Hi, On Mon, 09 Jun 2008 19:36:00 -0600, Arthur Reutenauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Also, we need not be too slavish: The Yudit author has pointed out areas >> where the bidi algorithm makes no sense or is deficient: >> >> http://www.yudit.org/bidi/surprise.html > > To be honest, this pag

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

> Also, we need not be too slavish: The Yudit author has pointed out areas > where the bidi algorithm makes no sense or is deficient: > > http://www.yudit.org/bidi/surprise.html To be honest, this page dates back to half a dozen years ago and reflects Gáspár Sinai's positions at that time; th

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Hi Khaled, On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:21:28 -0600, Khaled Hosny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Luatex does not mirror characters that has a Bidi_Mirrored property when > the text direction is set to RTL (TRT in Aleph), according to > http://unicode.org/reports/tr9/#Mirroring, the different types of >

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Khaled Hosny wrote: > Luatex does not mirror characters that has a Bidi_Mirrored property when > the text direction is set to RTL (TRT in Aleph), according to > http://unicode.org/reports/tr9/#Mirroring, the different types of > parenthesis that has Bidi_Mirrored property should be mirreored in RT

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 05:20:23PM +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: > Arthur Reutenauer wrote: > > Hello, > > > >> Is this a bug, feature, or am I missing > >> some thing? > > > > You're not missing anything, it's kind of a misfeature because the > > Bidi_Mirrored p

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Arthur Reutenauer wrote: > Hello, > >> Is this a bug, feature, or am I missing >> some thing? > > You're not missing anything, it's kind of a misfeature because the > Bidi_Mirrored property is not taken in account by ConTeXt (yet). > Happily enough, it's o

Re: [NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Hello, > Is this a bug, feature, or am I missing > some thing? You're not missing anything, it's kind of a misfeature because the Bidi_Mirrored property is not taken in account by ConTeXt (yet). Happily enough, it's one of the things I'm sponsored by Goo

[NTG-context] Luatex (actually Aleph) and Bidi_Mirrored chars in RTL mode

Luatex does not mirror characters that has a Bidi_Mirrored property when the text direction is set to RTL (TRT in Aleph), according to http://unicode.org/reports/tr9/#Mirroring, the different types of parenthesis that has Bidi_Mirrored property should be mirreored in RTL mode, but this isn't what