Re: [NTG-context] Strange page break before \title
Am 09.09.2013 um 09:23 schrieb Xan :
> On Sun, 8 Sep 2013 14:21:08 +0200
> Wolfgang Schuster ha escrit:
>
>>
>> Am 07.09.2013 um 22:34 schrieb Xan :
>>
>>> On Fri, 6 Sep 2013 13:22:55 +0200
>>> Wolfgang Schuster ha escrit:
>>>
after=\midaligned{\blackrule[width=7cm,height=\linewidth]}
>>>
>>> Thanks, perfect.
>>>
>>> But why (by default) it breaks the page and with simple \title does not do?
>>
>> I don’t know what you mean with your simple \title.
>>
>
> \title{foo}
>
> does not break page in my case.
The setting "\setuphead[title][page=no]" prevents a page before \title,
is this isn’t he problem in your case make a minimal example.
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] Strange page break before \title
On Sun, 8 Sep 2013 14:21:08 +0200
Wolfgang Schuster ha escrit:
>
> Am 07.09.2013 um 22:34 schrieb Xan :
>
> > On Fri, 6 Sep 2013 13:22:55 +0200
> > Wolfgang Schuster ha escrit:
> >
> >> after=\midaligned{\blackrule[width=7cm,height=\linewidth]}
> >
> > Thanks, perfect.
> >
> > But why (by default) it breaks the page and with simple \title does not do?
>
> I don’t know what you mean with your simple \title.
>
\title{foo}
does not break page in my case.
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Re: [NTG-context] Strange page break before \title
Am 07.09.2013 um 22:34 schrieb Xan :
> On Fri, 6 Sep 2013 13:22:55 +0200
> Wolfgang Schuster ha escrit:
>
>> after=\midaligned{\blackrule[width=7cm,height=\linewidth]}
>
> Thanks, perfect.
>
> But why (by default) it breaks the page and with simple \title does not do?
I don’t know what you mean with your simple \title.
The reason why my solution worked is that I changed the value of the page key.
With the page key you can tell a heading to insert a page break before it places
the text. You tried to avoid this with "before={\page[no]}" but this doesn’t
work
because there was already a break inserted by the default setting "page=yes".
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] Strange page break before \title
Am 06.09.2013 um 13:09 schrieb Xan :
> Hi,
>
> I have this setuptitle:
>
> \setuphead[title][before={\page[no]},
>after={\startalignment[center]
> {\dorecurse{30}~}\thinrule{\dorecurse{30}~}%
\setuphead
[title]
[page=no,
after=\midaligned{\blackrule[width=7cm,height=\linewidth]}]
Wolfgang
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[NTG-context] Strange page break before \title
Hi,
I have this setuptitle:
\setuphead[title][before={\page[no]},
after={\startalignment[center]
{\dorecurse{30}~}\thinrule{\dorecurse{30}~}%
and this document:
\starttext
\startalignment[center]
Nom: \hl[24] Curs: \hl[4]
\stopalignment
\title{Nom del tema}
...
\stoptext
Before title, context breaks a page. Why? If I do that manually no page break.
Thanks in advance,
Xan.
PS: Please CCme
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On 6-5-2010 1:17, Peter Münster wrote: On Thu, May 06 2010, Hans Hagen wrote: When you take my example from this morning, then you'll see, that \allowbreak really helps, whereas \testpage[5] only helps in some cases. yes but allowbreak introduces a penalty node that can interfere with spacing Anyway, I don't consider \allowbreak a solution, rather a work-around. Should I put this issue on the tracker? as long term issue ok, as it has to wait till we've opened up the par builder in luatex Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On Thu, May 06 2010, Hans Hagen wrote: >> When you take my example from this morning, then you'll see, that >> \allowbreak really helps, whereas \testpage[5] only helps in some cases. > > yes but allowbreak introduces a penalty node that can interfere with > spacing Anyway, I don't consider \allowbreak a solution, rather a work-around. Should I put this issue on the tracker? Cheers, Peter -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On 6-5-2010 12:09, Peter Münster wrote:
On Thu, May 06 2010, Hans Hagen wrote:
\setuphead[section][before={\allowbreak\blank[2*big]}]
{\testpage[5]\blank[2*big]}
Hello Hans,
When you take my example from this morning, then you'll see, that
\allowbreak really helps, whereas \testpage[5] only helps in some cases.
yes but allowbreak introduces a penalty node that can interfere with
spacing
(as taco explained, it's all related to tex not being that clever in
breaking pages and there is no 100% robust way to predict and calculate
such situations)
Hans
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| www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
Am 06.05.10 12:09, schrieb Peter Münster:
On Thu, May 06 2010, Hans Hagen wrote:
\setuphead[section][before={\allowbreak\blank[2*big]}]
{\testpage[5]\blank[2*big]}
Hello Hans,
When you take my example from this morning, then you'll see, that
\allowbreak really helps, whereas \testpage[5] only helps in some cases.
MkIV has a 'preference' option for \blank but it does not work for me.
\setuphead[section][before={\blank[preference,2*big]}]
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On Thu, May 06 2010, Hans Hagen wrote:
>>> \setuphead[section][before={\allowbreak\blank[2*big]}]
>
> {\testpage[5]\blank[2*big]}
Hello Hans,
When you take my example from this morning, then you'll see, that
\allowbreak really helps, whereas \testpage[5] only helps in some cases.
Cheers, Peter
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On 6-5-2010 11:33, Otared Kavian wrote:
On 6 mai 2010, at 11:13, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Am 06.05.10 10:46, schrieb Otared Kavian:
Hi Peter,
I had noticed such strange page breaks before and since it was always in small
documents (maths problem sheets), I used an elementary workaround which
consists in adding a \medskip or \smallskip before every \section. Actually
analogous bad page breaks happen in Plain TeX with \beginsection.
Regarding the minimal example you sent, adding
\setuphead[section][before=\smallskip]
to the top of your document, solves the problem appearing in the first section.
I don't know whether this solves all other strange page breaks or not.
You should at least keep the original space before the \section.
\setuphead[section][before={\allowbreak\blank[2*big]}]
{\testpage[5]\blank[2*big]}
this will make sure that at least there are 5 line equivalents of text.
(I want to integrate that in the spacing code.)
Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On Thu, May 06 2010, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> \setuphead[section][before={\allowbreak\blank[2*big]}]
Thanks for this workaround!
> The problem is indeed that ConTeXt tries to keep the header and the material
> before the header together
And does this make sense? Keeping header and the material after the header
together *does* make sense, but not the material *before*.
Thanks for your investigations!
Cheers, Peter
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On 6 mai 2010, at 11:13, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Am 06.05.10 10:46, schrieb Otared Kavian:
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> I had noticed such strange page breaks before and since it was always in
>> small documents (maths problem sheets), I used an elementary workaround
>> which consists in adding a \medskip or \smallskip before every \section.
>> Actually analogous bad page breaks happen in Plain TeX with \beginsection.
>> Regarding the minimal example you sent, adding
>> \setuphead[section][before=\smallskip]
>> to the top of your document, solves the problem appearing in the first
>> section. I don't know whether this solves all other strange page breaks or
>> not.
>
> You should at least keep the original space before the \section.
>
> \setuphead[section][before={\allowbreak\blank[2*big]}]
Hi Wolfgang,
Yes, indeed you are right: my point was that adding something before the
section solves, sometimes such problems (I can't say why), but as you say one
must, or it is wiser to, keep the original space around the \section.
> The problem is indeed that ConTeXt tries to keep the header and the material
> before the header together and there is no real key to control this. What you
> can find in the core is this
>
> % \chardef\somestructureheadbreakmethod\plusone % 0=nothing, 1=weighted,
> 2=strict, 3=vspacing
> \chardef\somestructureheadbreakmethod\plusthree
>
> but that's not what i consider to be available for the user.
… well, at least not available for users such as me… But it is available for
you :-)
Best regards: OK
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
Am 06.05.10 10:46, schrieb Otared Kavian:
Hi Peter,
I had noticed such strange page breaks before and since it was always
in small documents (maths problem sheets), I used an elementary
workaround which consists in adding a \medskip or \smallskip before
every \section. Actually analogous bad page breaks happen in Plain TeX
with \beginsection.
Regarding the minimal example you sent, adding
\setuphead[section][before=\smallskip]
to the top of your document, solves the problem appearing in the first
section. I don't know whether this solves all other strange page
breaks or not.
You should at least keep the original space before the \section.
\setuphead[section][before={\allowbreak\blank[2*big]}]
The problem is indeed that ConTeXt tries to keep the header and the material
before the header together and there is no real key to control this.
What you
can find in the core is this
% \chardef\somestructureheadbreakmethod\plusone % 0=nothing,
1=weighted, 2=strict, 3=vspacing
\chardef\somestructureheadbreakmethod\plusthree
but that's not what i consider to be available for the user.
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
Hi Peter,
I had noticed such strange page breaks before and since it was always in small
documents (maths problem sheets), I used an elementary workaround which
consists in adding a \medskip or \smallskip before every \section. Actually
analogous bad page breaks happen in Plain TeX with \beginsection.
Regarding the minimal example you sent, adding
\setuphead[section][before=\smallskip]
to the top of your document, solves the problem appearing in the first section.
I don't know whether this solves all other strange page breaks or not.
Best regards: OK
On 6 mai 2010, at 10:13, Peter Münster wrote:
> On Wed, May 05 2010, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
>
>> The *strict prevents widows and orphans (comment \setuplayout in this
>> example)
>> but the important setting here is \setupalign[line].
>
> Hello Wolfgang,
>
> I know that \setupalign[line] means: last line should touch the bottom.
> It can be useful, but it's not always what I want.
>
> Here an example from real life (not the content... ;). I hope you agree,
> that there should be done something in the default setup of ConTeXT:
>
> %\setuplayout[setups=*strict] % this helps only in some cases...
> %\setupalign[line] % this means "flushbottom" and I don't always want that
> \def\Lines#1{\dorecurse{#1}{\dorecurse{17}{text }}\par}
> \def\Table#1{\starttable[|l|]\dorecurse{#1}{\NC bla \NC\AR}\stoptable}
> \showframe
> \starttext
> \completecontent
> \section{bla}
> \Lines{10}
> \Lines3
> \section{bla}
> \Table9
> \section{bla}
> \subsection{bla}
> \Lines2
> \placetable[force][bla1]{bla}{\Table7}
> \Lines2
> \subsection{bla}
> \Lines7
> \placetable[force][bla2]{bla}{\Table{22}}
> \subsection{bla}
> \Lines2
> \placefigure[force][bla3]{}{\framed[height=2cm]{bla}}
> \subsubsection{bla}
> \Lines8
> \subsubsection{bla}
> \Lines2
> \subsubsection{bla}
> \Lines4
> \subsubsection{bla}
> \Lines2
> \section{bla}
> \Lines{15}
> \Lines2
> \section{bla}
> \Lines2
> \Table9
> \Lines2
> \stoptext
>
> Cheers, Peter
%%
Otared Kavian
Département de Mathématiques
Université de Versailles Saint-Quentin
Bâtiment Fermat
45 aveue des Etats Unis
78035 Versailles cedex
Téléphone: +33 1 39 25 46 42
Secrétariat: +33 1 39 25 46 44
Secrétariat: +33 1 39 25 46 46
e-mail: otared.kav...@math.uvsq.fr
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On Wed, May 05 2010, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> The *strict prevents widows and orphans (comment \setuplayout in this
> example)
> but the important setting here is \setupalign[line].
Hello Wolfgang,
I know that \setupalign[line] means: last line should touch the bottom.
It can be useful, but it's not always what I want.
Here an example from real life (not the content... ;). I hope you agree,
that there should be done something in the default setup of ConTeXT:
%\setuplayout[setups=*strict] % this helps only in some cases...
%\setupalign[line] % this means "flushbottom" and I don't always want that
\def\Lines#1{\dorecurse{#1}{\dorecurse{17}{text }}\par}
\def\Table#1{\starttable[|l|]\dorecurse{#1}{\NC bla \NC\AR}\stoptable}
\showframe
\starttext
\completecontent
\section{bla}
\Lines{10}
\Lines3
\section{bla}
\Table9
\section{bla}
\subsection{bla}
\Lines2
\placetable[force][bla1]{bla}{\Table7}
\Lines2
\subsection{bla}
\Lines7
\placetable[force][bla2]{bla}{\Table{22}}
\subsection{bla}
\Lines2
\placefigure[force][bla3]{}{\framed[height=2cm]{bla}}
\subsubsection{bla}
\Lines8
\subsubsection{bla}
\Lines2
\subsubsection{bla}
\Lines4
\subsubsection{bla}
\Lines2
\section{bla}
\Lines{15}
\Lines2
\section{bla}
\Lines2
\Table9
\Lines2
\stoptext
Cheers, Peter
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
Am 05.05.10 19:21, schrieb Peter Münster:
What is setups=*strict supposed to do? In the following example, the page
break is even before section 7:
\showframe
\setuplayout[setups=*strict]
\def\mySection{\section{bla}\dorecurse{40}{text }}
\starttext
\dorecurse8{\mySection} % try \dorecurse7 here
\stoptext
The *strict prevents widows and orphans (comment \setuplayout in this
example)
but the important setting here is \setupalign[line].
\showframe
\setuplayout[setups=*strict]
\setupalign[line]
\def\mySection{\section{bla}\dorecurse{40}{text }}
\starttext
\dorecurse8{\mySection} % try \dorecurse7 here
\vfil\stoptext
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On Wed, May 05 2010, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> The problem is in your example the page happens between two separate
> paragraphs and not in a paragraph where a penalty values is available.
What is setups=*strict supposed to do? In the following example, the page
break is even before section 7:
\showframe
\setuplayout[setups=*strict]
\def\mySection{\section{bla}\dorecurse{40}{text }}
\starttext
\dorecurse8{\mySection} % try \dorecurse7 here
\stoptext
I would really like to solve this problem: read the relevant chapters in my
TeXbook, take a look into latex-code and then patch context, but
unfortunately I don't have time for this right now, so any help is really
welcome.
Currently I'm working on two documents, where I have a lot of \page
commands as workaround.
Tomorrow, I'll try to make a better example, where page-breaks are really
bad...
Cheers, Peter
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
Am 05.05.10 18:23, schrieb Peter Münster: On Wed, May 05 2010, Wolfgang Schuster wrote Without setting your own penalty values you can do this: \setuplayout[setups=*strict] I'm sorry Wolfgang, I don't understand this command. In the following example, there is still a bad page break: The problem is in your example the page happens between two separate paragraphs and not in a paragraph where a penalty values is available. Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On Wed, May 05 2010, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Without setting your own penalty values you can do this:
>
> \setuplayout[setups=*strict]
I'm sorry Wolfgang, I don't understand this command. In the following
example, there is still a bad page break:
\setuplayout[setups=*strict]
\def\mySection{\section{bla}\dorecurse{30}{text }\par bla}
\starttext
\dorecurse8{\mySection}
\stoptext
Perhaps, there is a possibility to check easily what LaTeX does with
penalties and sections and apply it to ConTeXt?
Cheers, Peter
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
Am 05.05.10 17:33, schrieb Peter Münster: On Wed, May 05 2010, Taco Hoekwater wrote: (TeX's page break algorithm is not all that smart really, because it does not know about sectioning at all: it only sees lines and penalties). So the question is: what can be done? I know, that LaTeX doesn't suffer from such problems... Without setting your own penalty values you can do this: \setuplayout[setups=*strict] Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On Wed, May 05 2010, Taco Hoekwater wrote: > (TeX's page break algorithm is not all that smart really, > because it does not know about sectioning at all: it only > sees lines and penalties). So the question is: what can be done? I know, that LaTeX doesn't suffer from such problems... Cheers, Peter -- Contact information: http://pmrb.free.fr/contact/ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Taco Hoekwater wrote: > Peter Münster wrote: >> >> On Wed, May 05 2010, Taco Hoekwater wrote: >> >>> Looks rather normal here, see attached (ver: 2010.05.02 16:43) >> >> A better page break would be after the last line of section 7: > > Oh, I see. Yes, it is odd that that last line is taken over > to the second page in the original test file. But the same > thing happens in mkii, so I suspect this is an unavoidable > side-effect of page breaking. in mkii the same example looks ok but I suppose it doesn't really matter -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
Peter Münster wrote: On Wed, May 05 2010, Taco Hoekwater wrote: Looks rather normal here, see attached (ver: 2010.05.02 16:43) A better page break would be after the last line of section 7: Oh, I see. Yes, it is odd that that last line is taken over to the second page in the original test file. But the same thing happens in mkii, so I suspect this is an unavoidable side-effect of page breaking. What happens is that TeX first attempts the break after two lines into section 7 and finds a badness value for that. Then it tries the third line, and finds another badness value for that. Normally, TeX considers the break after the second line better, but in your second example the \page adds a big negative penalty for the third line which skews the result in favor of that line. (TeX's page break algorithm is not all that smart really, because it does not know about sectioning at all: it only sees lines and penalties). Best wishes, Taco ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
On Wed, May 05 2010, Taco Hoekwater wrote:
> Looks rather normal here, see attached (ver: 2010.05.02 16:43)
A better page break would be after the last line of section 7:
\def\mySection{\section{bla}\dorecurse{30}{text }}
\starttext
\dorecurse8{
\mySection\par
bla
\doif{\recurselevel}{7}{\page}}
\stoptext
This is just a minimal example. In my real life documents I have a lot of
situations like this, and often it's not just one line that has to be moved
to the previous page, but a lot more. So I have now a lot of "\page"
commands in my documents... :(
If needed, I'll try to make a better minimal example tomorrow.
Cheers, Peter
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Re: [NTG-context] strange page break
Peter Münster wrote: Hello, Here is a strange page break (version 2010.04.29 22:30): Looks rather normal here, see attached (ver: 2010.05.02 16:43) Best wishes, Taco strangebreak.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] strange page break
Hello,
Here is a strange page break (version 2010.04.29 22:30):
\def\mySection{\section{bla}\dorecurse{30}{text }}
\starttext
\dorecurse8{
\mySection\par
bla}
\stoptext
Cheers, Peter
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