[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

> Am 25.02.2025 um 17:01 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 
> mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>>:
> 
> On 2/21/25 12:32, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>> Pablo,
>> 
>> the last Acrobat Pro without subscription is version from 2020.
>> On a macOS I tested your test file with this version and the result was
>> surprising, see screenshots via wetransfer:
>> https://we.tl/t-eW1zqTncZw .
> 
> Hi Steffen,
> 
> the relevant info is missing in the frame I added to your first screenshot.
> 
> Just as a comment, pngquant does a great job reducing PNG screenshots
> (most of the time).
> 
> Starting a new thread about the non-standard tag.



Hi Pablo,

sorry for missing parts. Here attached you may find these info.
Thanks for mentioning pngquant, works great (as we can see here)!

(I hope this is still the right thread?)

Yours, Steffen

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 2/21/25 12:32, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> Pablo,
>
> the last Acrobat Pro without subscription is version from 2020.
> On a macOS I tested your test file with this version and the result was
> surprising, see screenshots via wetransfer:
> https://we.tl/t-eW1zqTncZw.

Hi Steffen,

the relevant info is missing in the frame I added to your first screenshot.

Just as a comment, pngquant does a great job reducing PNG screenshots
(most of the time).

Starting a new thread about the non-standard tag.

Many thanks for your patience,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Pablo,

the last Acrobat Pro without subscription is version from 2020.
On a macOS I tested your test file with this version and the result was 
surprising, see screenshots via wetransfer:
https://we.tl/t-eW1zqTncZw 

Steffen



> Am 19.02.2025 um 07:22 schrieb Steffen Wolfrum  >:
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 18.02.2025 um 17:19 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 
>> mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>>:
>> 
>> On 2/18/25 13:02, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>>> Hi Pablo,
>>> 
>>> they tested the test file: they could not see alt-text:
>>> Acrobat Pro 24.005 / Windows (x86).
>> 
>> Sorry, Steffen, I need to investigate this further.
>> 
>> Although I must confess that if Acrobat Pro (not Reader) is the only way
>> to test this, I don’t have access to it.
>> 
>> In any case, I’m afraid testing will take time, because I have to
>> dedicate myself to other tasks.


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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

> Am 18.02.2025 um 17:19 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 
> :
> 
> On 2/18/25 13:02, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>> Hi Pablo,
>> 
>> they tested the test file: they could not see alt-text:
>> Acrobat Pro 24.005 / Windows (x86).
> 
> Sorry, Steffen, I need to investigate this further.
> 
> Although I must confess that if Acrobat Pro (not Reader) is the only way
> to test this, I don’t have access to it.
> 
> In any case, I’m afraid testing will take time, because I have to
> dedicate myself to other tasks.


Hi Pablo,

I’d be happy if I could support your investigations.
At least I will communicate and forward any test file to those who have Acrobat 
Pro.

Yours, Steffen
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 2/18/25 13:02, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> Hi Pablo,
>
> they tested the test file: they could not see alt-text:
> Acrobat Pro 24.005 / Windows (x86).

Sorry, Steffen, I need to investigate this further.

Although I must confess that if Acrobat Pro (not Reader) is the only way
to test this, I don’t have access to it.

In any case, I’m afraid testing will take time, because I have to
dedicate myself to other tasks.

Best,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

Hi Pablo,

they tested the test file: they could not see alt-text:
Acrobat Pro 24.005 / Windows (x86)

Steffen


> Am 16.02.2025 um 10:03 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 
> :
> 
> On 2/15/25 19:29, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>> [...]
>> Do I understand you correctly that it would be interesting to know
>> program, version number and OS of the program with which they tested
>> our PDF, unsuccessfully?
> 
> Hi Steffen,
> 
> on a second thought, only the program would be required.
> 
> It would be the easiest way to replicate their tests. I mean, if they
> use a publicly-available validator.
> 
> Otherwise, it will be really hard to test accessibility for PDF
> documents by ourselves.
> 
> But for now, I have tested this with the VeraPDF validator and I have
> found another issue.
> 
> If you don’t mind, I will open a new thread.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Pablo
> ___
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Thomas Meyer]

Oh, sorry!

Am 16.02.25 um 12:02 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context:

Yes, the main problem I found was the reason I started a new thread
(https://mailman.ntg.nl/archives/list/ntg-context@ntg.nl/message/4IIHP4EGYVY3K5OTGWAWXKBNGTP6XYV5/).

Best,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 2/16/25 11:57, Thomas Meyer wrote:
> Hi Pablo,
>
> you are correct: i found lpdf-fmt.lmt.
>
> But with format={pdf/ua-2} VeraPDF is still red.

Yes, the main problem I found was the reason I started a new thread
(https://mailman.ntg.nl/archives/list/ntg-context@ntg.nl/message/4IIHP4EGYVY3K5OTGWAWXKBNGTP6XYV5/).

Best,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Thomas Meyer]

Hi Pablo,

you are correct: i found lpdf-fmt.lmt.

But with format={pdf/ua-2} VeraPDF is still red.

Greetings


Am 16.02.25 um 11:36 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context:

On 2/16/25 11:09, Thomas Meyer wrote:

\setupbackend[
format={pdf/ua-1},
profile={default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
]

\setuptagging
   [state=start]

\enabledirectives
   [backend.usetags=mkiv]

   \starttext
   a
   \stoptext

is green with VeraPDF!

Many thanks for your testing, Thomas.


format={pdf/ua-2} is not defined I think, see: https://
source.contextgarden.net/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-fmt.lua

It’s defined for MkXL (aka LMTX). See lpdf-fmt.lua from your
distribution, since the ConTeXt Garden contains a version which is more
than a year old).

BTW, the profile mixture has a separate thread.

Best,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 2/16/25 11:09, Thomas Meyer wrote:
> \setupbackend[
> format={pdf/ua-1},
> profile={default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
> ]
>
> \setuptagging
>   [state=start]
>
> \enabledirectives
>   [backend.usetags=mkiv]
>
>   \starttext
>   a
>   \stoptext
>
> is green with VeraPDF!

Many thanks for your testing, Thomas.

> format={pdf/ua-2} is not defined I think, see: https://
> source.contextgarden.net/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-fmt.lua

It’s defined for MkXL (aka LMTX). See lpdf-fmt.lua from your
distribution, since the ConTeXt Garden contains a version which is more
than a year old).

BTW, the profile mixture has a separate thread.

Best,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Thomas Meyer]

\setupbackend[
format={pdf/ua-1},
profile={default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
]

\setuptagging
  [state=start]

\enabledirectives
  [backend.usetags=mkiv]

  \starttext
  a
  \stoptext

is green with VeraPDF!

format={pdf/ua-2} is not defined I think, see: 
https://source.contextgarden.net/tex/context/base/mkiv/lpdf-fmt.lua


Greetings
Thomas

Am 16.02.25 um 10:03 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context:

On 2/15/25 19:29, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

[...]
Do I understand you correctly that it would be interesting to know
program, version number and OS of the program with which they tested
our PDF, unsuccessfully?

Hi Steffen,

on a second thought, only the program would be required.

It would be the easiest way to replicate their tests. I mean, if they
use a publicly-available validator.

Otherwise, it will be really hard to test accessibility for PDF
documents by ourselves.

But for now, I have tested this with the VeraPDF validator and I have
found another issue.

If you don’t mind, I will open a new thread.

Best,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 2/15/25 19:29, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> [...]
> Do I understand you correctly that it would be interesting to know
> program, version number and OS of the program with which they tested
> our PDF, unsuccessfully?

Hi Steffen,

on a second thought, only the program would be required.

It would be the easiest way to replicate their tests. I mean, if they
use a publicly-available validator.

Otherwise, it will be really hard to test accessibility for PDF
documents by ourselves.

But for now, I have tested this with the VeraPDF validator and I have
found another issue.

If you don’t mind, I will open a new thread.

Best,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

> Am 14.02.2025 um 20:43 schrieb Hans Hagen :
> 
> On 2/14/2025 8:03 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> 
>> in my case the publisher that needs this feature right now is Heidelberg 
>> University Publishing:
>> https://heiup.uni-heidelberg.de/
>> Definitely no turnaround over 7 digits. A small but committed publisher, 
>> that is engaged in making PDF documents also accessible for blind people.
> 
> - adding some Alt whatever to a pdf has been possible for ages but only when 
> it's required by law they do it
> 
> - adding some simple label is not helping the blind, while making a dedicated 
> document (or providing the sources) with more extensive description of what 
> this image is showing makes more sense
> 
> - add audio resources to documents clearly explaining matters that require 
> something that a blind person needs seems better to me (also something that 
> can be done for ages)
> 
> so ... if publishers really cared about that they'd embraced tex as tool for 
> *multiple* output (not only blind, maybe also huge fonts etc for bad eyesight 
> or alternative coloring for color blind or ...)
> 
> not even now, with accessibility on the agenda, those demands show up ... so 
> forgive if i don't take publishers demands too serious on this
> 
> anyway, we'll see what direction pablos tests show us, and i'll adapt to that
> 
> Hans


I agree completely.

Steffen
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

> Am 15.02.2025 um 14:16 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 
> :
> 
> On 2/14/25 20:03, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>> […]
>> Definitely no turnaround over 7 digits. A small but committed
>> publisher, that is engaged in making PDF documents also accessible
>> for blind people.
> Hi Steffen,
> 
> could you send them this attachment
> (https://mailman.ntg.nl/archives/list/ntg-context@ntg.nl/message/DS5R3HFLWRFWASMMZIQT7RNTLHXEQU5K/attachment/2/cow-hoh.pdf)
> so that they could test whether it works for them?
> 
> BTW, if this failed, it would be great to have program, version number
> and OS (to be able to test it further).
> 
> Many thanks for your help,
> 
> Pablo


Hi Pablo,

I already did this some days ago. Of course not the same PDF but probably from 
a very similar context code.
It didn't work.

Do I understand you correctly that it world be interesting to know program, 
version number and OS of the program with which they tested our PDF, 
unsuccessfully?

Regards, Steffen

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 2/14/25 20:03, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> […]
> Definitely no turnaround over 7 digits. A small but committed
> publisher, that is engaged in making PDF documents also accessible
> for blind people.
Hi Steffen,

could you send them this attachment
(https://mailman.ntg.nl/archives/list/ntg-context@ntg.nl/message/DS5R3HFLWRFWASMMZIQT7RNTLHXEQU5K/attachment/2/cow-hoh.pdf)
so that they could test whether it works for them?

BTW, if this failed, it would be great to have program, version number
and OS (to be able to test it further).

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 2/14/25 19:18, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 2/14/2025 6:05 PM, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:
>> […]
>> With "Alt", these viewers seem to find no "cow" (using the previous
>> sample from Steffen): PDF.js, poppler (Evince/Okular), xpdf, mupdf-gl
>> (and SumatraPDF).
>>
>> With "ActualText", the compilant viewers are mupdf-gl (plus SumatraPDF),
>> poppler (Evince/Okular), xpdf. PDF.js has only an open issue
>> (https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/issues/12237).
>
> So should one set both?

Not for the same element, my fault.

> Does it hurt? I suppose one is used for speach
> and another for copy-paste and that viewers mix and match what they like
> here.

Alt is for speech and to replace non-textual elements. ActualText is
intended only for textual elements (text itself or images that contain
text).

> Could have the same values (when we set label)
>
> You can try to uncoment in lpdf-tag:
>
>   -- Alt= alternate,
>
>   -- Alt  = pdfunicode(label ~= "" and label or "image"),
>
> irr we commented because some validator didn't like it but maybe we
> should not care about that too much. (Could also be under
> \enableexperiment control).

I will try to test this with the validators that come from the Arlington
PDF model.

BTW, ActualText doesn’t work in Edge (and I guess, Chrome [I don’t have
access to a computer with it installed]).

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 2/14/2025 8:03 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:


in my case the publisher that needs this feature right now is Heidelberg 
University Publishing:
https://heiup.uni-heidelberg.de/

Definitely no turnaround over 7 digits. A small but committed publisher, that 
is engaged in making PDF documents also accessible for blind people.


- adding some Alt whatever to a pdf has been possible for ages but only 
when it's required by law they do it


- adding some simple label is not helping the blind, while making a 
dedicated document (or providing the sources) with more extensive 
description of what this image is showing makes more sense


- add audio resources to documents clearly explaining matters that 
require something that a blind person needs seems better to me (also 
something that can be done for ages)


so ... if publishers really cared about that they'd embraced tex as tool 
for *multiple* output (not only blind, maybe also huge fonts etc for bad 
eyesight or alternative coloring for color blind or ...)


not even now, with accessibility on the agenda, those demands show up 
... so forgive if i don't take publishers demands too serious on this


anyway, we'll see what direction pablos tests show us, and i'll adapt to 
that


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

> Am 14.02.2025 um 13:26 schrieb Hans Hagen :
> 
> On 2/14/2025 12:29 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>>> Am 14.02.2025 um 11:58 schrieb Hans Hagen :
>>> 
>>> On 2/14/2025 11:36 AM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> Am 13.02.2025 um 17:37 schrieb Hans Hagen :
> 
> On 2/13/2025 3:28 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>>> Am 12.02.2025 um 16:13 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> On 2/12/2025 3:48 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
 «Tagged PDF» still is broken:
 \setupbackend[
 format={pdf/a-1b:2005},
 profile={default_cmyk.icc,default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
 intent=Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004),
 level=0]
 \setupstructure[state=start,method=auto]
 \setupbackend[export=yes]
 \starttext
 TEST
 \stoptext
>>> 
>>> define broken ... you're not enabling tagging and enabling export will 
>>> disable some other features so you get a different pdf anyway
>> When I run this test files with e.g. ConTeXt  ver: 2022.07.06 21:42 LMTX
>> then opening the PDF in Acrobat Reader it says: Document Properties > 
>> Tagged PDF : »Yes«.
>> When I use the current ConText its says »No«.
>> And the publishing houses demand Tagged PDF (because of accessibility).
> 
> whatever that means ... for printing it doesn't matter ... for viewinfb 
> they have to provide the tools and i bet they don't give you a full 
> acrobat prescription
 (of course not)
> anyway, you don't read what we answer ... you need to enable tagging and 
> not confuse it with exporting .. think something
> 
> \setuptagging
> [state=start]
> 
> \setupbackend
> [format=ua2]
> 
> \starttext
>  TEST
> \stoptext
> 
> instead.
> 
> Hans
 Does that mean that this example should provide the urgently desired 
 alt-text:
 \setuptagging
 [state=start]
 \setupbackend
 [format=ua2]
 \setupexternalfigures[location=default]
 \starttext
  \startPDFalternativetext{this is a cow}
  \externalfigure[cow]
  \stopPDFalternativetext
 \stoptext
 Really?! If so, I will send it to the publishers so they can check if it 
 fulfills their needs.
>>> 
>>> I assume you can try and did so because you indicated that your viewer gave 
>>> some report.
>> Acrobat Reader can be downloaded for free. In the Document Properties it 
>> reports only whether the PDF is a «Tagged PDF» or not. The tags themselves 
>> can only be seen by Acrobat Pro. (Due to the costs probably only publishing 
>> house work with Acrobat Pro.)
> 
> I rarely open Acrobat Reader ... if onlty because I then need time to recover 
> from an acute allergy for intrusive user interface changes and / or its offer 
> to come up with summaries etc usign some ai and i don't even know of the file 
> isn't sent somewhere.
> 
>>> Of course you need to make sure not to introduce unwanted spaces (as in 
>>> your example).
>> I didn't want to introduce unwanted spaces. Where are spaces in my example?
> 
> after } and then after ]
> 
>>> We can actually put an Alt on a specific image element (by setting 
>>> label={...}) but for now it's disabled for now. Last time we checked some 
>>> validators didn't like it and viewerd didn't do anything useful with it so 
>>> ity made no sense to waste more time on it.
>>> 
>>> Just putting stuff in a pdf for the sake of having something is is tricky 
>>> because who knows what future validation makes of it. It's a mess (and 
>>> always has been and likely will be).
>> Strange. I don't know the situation in The Netherlands, but at least in 
>> Germany all publisher are obligated by law from 28th of  June 2025 on to 
>> provide books as PDF with tags and these alternative texts.
> 
> Do they really have to provide books as pdf? I only buy printed books so I 
> might be out of touch with reality (i.e. getting pdf's). Also, define 
> publisher ...
> 
> I never had a publisher ask for something tagged. If they would come up with 
> these demands I'd ask them to put their money where their mouth is (pay for 
> development, extra work involved, tools needed).
> 
>> How do we manage this?
> 
> If 'we' means 'me' (Hans) ... well, some of these rules only apply to 
> organizations that have a turnaround over 7 digits so I'm way of from 
> worrying. Mikael and I looked into tagging for educational materials and 
> stopped where it still made some sense (read: university tools are happy), 
> and will pick up in a few years when there might be some usefull tools. Also 
> we found out that with LLM based chatbots can interpret an untagged pdf quite 
> well so we'll see.
> 
> That said: we have tagging in mkiv ... no one really cared that much (no 
> tools that use them) ... and in mkxl we updated it a bit (still no tools) 
> only to find out that tagged pdf (and the standard) has become fluid, seems 
> to evolve, is kind of unstable, is 

[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 2/14/2025 6:05 PM, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:

On 2/14/25 17:13, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 2/14/2025 4:50 PM, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:

[…]
The PDF key name is "Alt"
[…]
Besides other questions related to the accessibility directive, it would
be great to fix this issue.


As you tested viewers before, can you check which ones do something with
Alt and/or ActualText at all?


Many thanks for your fast reply, Hans.

I attach the sample file (Alt value "this is a cow", ActualText value
"hoh").

I don’t have access to a Windows computer now, so I cannot test Acrobat
or Chrome/Edge now.

With "Alt", these viewers seem to find no "cow" (using the previous
sample from Steffen): PDF.js, poppler (Evince/Okular), xpdf, mupdf-gl
(and SumatraPDF).

With "ActualText", the compilant viewers are mupdf-gl (plus SumatraPDF),
poppler (Evince/Okular), xpdf. PDF.js has only an open issue
(https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/issues/12237).


So should one set both? Does it hurt? I suppose one is used for speach 
and another for copy-paste and that viewers mix and match what they like 
here. Could have the same values (when we set label)


You can try to uncoment in lpdf-tag:

 -- Alt= alternate,

 -- Alt  = pdfunicode(label ~= "" and label or "image"),

irr we commented because some validator didn't like it but maybe we 
should not care about that too much. (Could also be under 
\enableexperiment control).


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 2/14/25 17:13, Hans Hagen wrote:
> On 2/14/2025 4:50 PM, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:
>> […]
>> The PDF key name is "Alt"
>> […]
>> Besides other questions related to the accessibility directive, it would
>> be great to fix this issue.
>
> As you tested viewers before, can you check which ones do something with
> Alt and/or ActualText at all?

Many thanks for your fast reply, Hans.

I attach the sample file (Alt value "this is a cow", ActualText value
"hoh").

I don’t have access to a Windows computer now, so I cannot test Acrobat
or Chrome/Edge now.

With "Alt", these viewers seem to find no "cow" (using the previous
sample from Steffen): PDF.js, poppler (Evince/Okular), xpdf, mupdf-gl
(and SumatraPDF).

With "ActualText", the compilant viewers are mupdf-gl (plus SumatraPDF),
poppler (Evince/Okular), xpdf. PDF.js has only an open issue
(https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/issues/12237).

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo


cow-hoh.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 2/14/2025 4:50 PM, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:

On 2/14/25 11:57, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

Am 14.02.2025 um 11:36 schrieb Steffen Wolfrum :
[…]
Does that mean that this example should provide the urgently
desired alt-text:
[…]
Really?! If so, I will send it to the publishers so they can check
if it fulfills their needs.>

I just received the feedback from the publishers: there is no
alternative text in this example.


Hi Steffen and Hans,

there is no alternative text in the PDF code because of lpdf-ini.lmt:

local f_actual_text = formatters["/Span <> BDC"]

-  local f_alternative_text  = formatters["/Span <> BDC"]
+  local f_alternative_text  = formatters["/Span <> BDC"]

local s_actual_text_e  = "EMC ET"

The PDF key name is "Alt"
(https://opensource.adobe.com/dc-acrobat-sdk-docs/pdfstandards/PDF32000_2008.pdf#page=567),
from PDF-1.3
(https://github.com/pdf-association/arlington-pdf-model/blob/master/tsv/1.3/StructElem.tsv)
to the latest version
(https://github.com/pdf-association/arlington-pdf-model/blob/master/tsv/latest/StructElem.tsv).

There seems to be no "AltText" key in the PDF specification, afaIk.

Besides other questions related to the accessibility directive, it would
be great to fix this issue.


As you tested viewers before, can you check which ones do something with 
Alt and/or ActualText at all?


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 2/14/25 11:57, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>> Am 14.02.2025 um 11:36 schrieb Steffen Wolfrum :
>> […]
>> Does that mean that this example should provide the urgently
>> desired alt-text:
>> […]
>> Really?! If so, I will send it to the publishers so they can check
>> if it fulfills their needs.>
> I just received the feedback from the publishers: there is no
> alternative text in this example.

Hi Steffen and Hans,

there is no alternative text in the PDF code because of lpdf-ini.lmt:

   local f_actual_text = formatters["/Span <> BDC"]

-  local f_alternative_text  = formatters["/Span <> BDC"]
+  local f_alternative_text  = formatters["/Span <> BDC"]

   local s_actual_text_e  = "EMC ET"

The PDF key name is "Alt"
(https://opensource.adobe.com/dc-acrobat-sdk-docs/pdfstandards/PDF32000_2008.pdf#page=567),
from PDF-1.3
(https://github.com/pdf-association/arlington-pdf-model/blob/master/tsv/1.3/StructElem.tsv)
to the latest version
(https://github.com/pdf-association/arlington-pdf-model/blob/master/tsv/latest/StructElem.tsv).

There seems to be no "AltText" key in the PDF specification, afaIk.

Besides other questions related to the accessibility directive, it would
be great to fix this issue.

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 2/14/2025 12:29 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:




Am 14.02.2025 um 11:58 schrieb Hans Hagen :

On 2/14/2025 11:36 AM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

Am 13.02.2025 um 17:37 schrieb Hans Hagen :

On 2/13/2025 3:28 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

Am 12.02.2025 um 16:13 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context :

On 2/12/2025 3:48 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

«Tagged PDF» still is broken:
\setupbackend[
format={pdf/a-1b:2005},
profile={default_cmyk.icc,default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
intent=Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004),
level=0]
\setupstructure[state=start,method=auto]
\setupbackend[export=yes]
\starttext
TEST
\stoptext


define broken ... you're not enabling tagging and enabling export will disable 
some other features so you get a different pdf anyway

When I run this test files with e.g. ConTeXt  ver: 2022.07.06 21:42 LMTX
then opening the PDF in Acrobat Reader it says: Document Properties > Tagged 
PDF : »Yes«.
When I use the current ConText its says »No«.
And the publishing houses demand Tagged PDF (because of accessibility).


whatever that means ... for printing it doesn't matter ... for viewinfb they 
have to provide the tools and i bet they don't give you a full acrobat 
prescription

(of course not)

anyway, you don't read what we answer ... you need to enable tagging and not 
confuse it with exporting .. think something

\setuptagging
[state=start]

\setupbackend
[format=ua2]

\starttext
   TEST
\stoptext

instead.

Hans

Does that mean that this example should provide the urgently desired alt-text:
\setuptagging
[state=start]
\setupbackend
[format=ua2]
\setupexternalfigures[location=default]
\starttext
   \startPDFalternativetext{this is a cow}
   \externalfigure[cow]
   \stopPDFalternativetext
\stoptext
Really?! If so, I will send it to the publishers so they can check if it 
fulfills their needs.


I assume you can try and did so because you indicated that your viewer gave 
some report.


Acrobat Reader can be downloaded for free. In the Document Properties it 
reports only whether the PDF is a «Tagged PDF» or not. The tags themselves can 
only be seen by Acrobat Pro. (Due to the costs probably only publishing house 
work with Acrobat Pro.)


I rarely open Acrobat Reader ... if onlty because I then need time to 
recover from an acute allergy for intrusive user interface changes and / 
or its offer to come up with summaries etc usign some ai and i don't 
even know of the file isn't sent somewhere.



Of course you need to make sure not to introduce unwanted spaces (as in your 
example).


I didn't want to introduce unwanted spaces. Where are spaces in my example?


after } and then after ]


We can actually put an Alt on a specific image element (by setting label={...}) 
but for now it's disabled for now. Last time we checked some validators didn't 
like it and viewerd didn't do anything useful with it so ity made no sense to 
waste more time on it.

Just putting stuff in a pdf for the sake of having something is is tricky 
because who knows what future validation makes of it. It's a mess (and always 
has been and likely will be).


Strange. I don't know the situation in The Netherlands, but at least in Germany 
all publisher are obligated by law from 28th of  June 2025 on to provide books 
as PDF with tags and these alternative texts.


Do they really have to provide books as pdf? I only buy printed books so 
I might be out of touch with reality (i.e. getting pdf's). Also, define 
publisher ...


I never had a publisher ask for something tagged. If they would come up 
with these demands I'd ask them to put their money where their mouth is 
(pay for development, extra work involved, tools needed).



How do we manage this?


If 'we' means 'me' (Hans) ... well, some of these rules only apply to 
organizations that have a turnaround over 7 digits so I'm way of from 
worrying. Mikael and I looked into tagging for educational materials and 
stopped where it still made some sense (read: university tools are 
happy), and will pick up in a few years when there might be some usefull 
tools. Also we found out that with LLM based chatbots can interpret an 
untagged pdf quite well so we'll see.


That said: we have tagging in mkiv ... no one really cared that much (no 
tools that use them) ... and in mkxl we updated it a bit (still no 
tools) only to find out that tagged pdf (and the standard) has become 
fluid, seems to evolve, is kind of unstable, is a mess ... does a 
conforming 2 year old doc still validate? ... one cannot expect us to 
keep adapting for the sake of adapting, right? As it's all volunteer 
work, there are more instresting typesetting related things to explore.


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
_

[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

> Am 14.02.2025 um 11:58 schrieb Hans Hagen :
> 
> On 2/14/2025 11:36 AM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>>> Am 13.02.2025 um 17:37 schrieb Hans Hagen :
>>> 
>>> On 2/13/2025 3:28 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> Am 12.02.2025 um 16:13 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context 
> :
> 
> On 2/12/2025 3:48 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>> «Tagged PDF» still is broken:
>> \setupbackend[
>> format={pdf/a-1b:2005},
>> profile={default_cmyk.icc,default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
>> intent=Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004),
>> level=0]
>> \setupstructure[state=start,method=auto]
>> \setupbackend[export=yes]
>> \starttext
>> TEST
>> \stoptext
> 
> define broken ... you're not enabling tagging and enabling export will 
> disable some other features so you get a different pdf anyway
 When I run this test files with e.g. ConTeXt  ver: 2022.07.06 21:42 LMTX
 then opening the PDF in Acrobat Reader it says: Document Properties > 
 Tagged PDF : »Yes«.
 When I use the current ConText its says »No«.
 And the publishing houses demand Tagged PDF (because of accessibility).
>>> 
>>> whatever that means ... for printing it doesn't matter ... for viewinfb 
>>> they have to provide the tools and i bet they don't give you a full acrobat 
>>> prescription
>> (of course not)
>>> anyway, you don't read what we answer ... you need to enable tagging and 
>>> not confuse it with exporting .. think something
>>> 
>>> \setuptagging
>>> [state=start]
>>> 
>>> \setupbackend
>>> [format=ua2]
>>> 
>>> \starttext
>>>   TEST
>>> \stoptext
>>> 
>>> instead.
>>> 
>>> Hans
>> Does that mean that this example should provide the urgently desired 
>> alt-text:
>> \setuptagging
>> [state=start]
>> \setupbackend
>> [format=ua2]
>> \setupexternalfigures[location=default]
>> \starttext
>>   \startPDFalternativetext{this is a cow}
>>   \externalfigure[cow]
>>   \stopPDFalternativetext
>> \stoptext
>> Really?! If so, I will send it to the publishers so they can check if it 
>> fulfills their needs.
> 
> I assume you can try and did so because you indicated that your viewer gave 
> some report.

Acrobat Reader can be downloaded for free. In the Document Properties it 
reports only whether the PDF is a «Tagged PDF» or not. The tags themselves can 
only be seen by Acrobat Pro. (Due to the costs probably only publishing house 
work with Acrobat Pro.)


> Of course you need to make sure not to introduce unwanted spaces (as in your 
> example).

I didn't want to introduce unwanted spaces. Where are spaces in my example?


> We can actually put an Alt on a specific image element (by setting 
> label={...}) but for now it's disabled for now. Last time we checked some 
> validators didn't like it and viewerd didn't do anything useful with it so 
> ity made no sense to waste more time on it.
> 
> Just putting stuff in a pdf for the sake of having something is is tricky 
> because who knows what future validation makes of it. It's a mess (and always 
> has been and likely will be).

Strange. I don't know the situation in The Netherlands, but at least in Germany 
all publisher are obligated by law from 28th of  June 2025 on to provide books 
as PDF with tags and these alternative texts.

How do we manage this?

Steffen


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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 2/14/2025 11:36 AM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:




Am 13.02.2025 um 17:37 schrieb Hans Hagen :

On 2/13/2025 3:28 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

Am 12.02.2025 um 16:13 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context :

On 2/12/2025 3:48 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

«Tagged PDF» still is broken:
\setupbackend[
format={pdf/a-1b:2005},
profile={default_cmyk.icc,default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
intent=Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004),
level=0]
\setupstructure[state=start,method=auto]
\setupbackend[export=yes]
\starttext
TEST
\stoptext


define broken ... you're not enabling tagging and enabling export will disable 
some other features so you get a different pdf anyway

When I run this test files with e.g. ConTeXt  ver: 2022.07.06 21:42 LMTX
then opening the PDF in Acrobat Reader it says: Document Properties > Tagged 
PDF : »Yes«.
When I use the current ConText its says »No«.
And the publishing houses demand Tagged PDF (because of accessibility).


whatever that means ... for printing it doesn't matter ... for viewinfb they 
have to provide the tools and i bet they don't give you a full acrobat 
prescription


(of course not)



anyway, you don't read what we answer ... you need to enable tagging and not 
confuse it with exporting .. think something

\setuptagging
[state=start]

\setupbackend
[format=ua2]

\starttext
   TEST
\stoptext

instead.

Hans




Does that mean that this example should provide the urgently desired alt-text:

\setuptagging
[state=start]

\setupbackend
[format=ua2]

\setupexternalfigures[location=default]

\starttext
   \startPDFalternativetext{this is a cow}
   \externalfigure[cow]
   \stopPDFalternativetext
\stoptext


Really?! If so, I will send it to the publishers so they can check if it 
fulfills their needs.


I assume you can try and did so because you indicated that your viewer 
gave some report. Of course you need to make sure not to introduce 
unwanted spaces (as in your example).


We can actually put an Alt on a specific image element (by setting 
label={...}) but for now it's disabled for now. Last time we checked 
some validators didn't like it and viewerd didn't do anything useful 
with it so ity made no sense to waste more time on it.


Just putting stuff in a pdf for the sake of having something is is 
tricky because who knows what future validation makes of it. It's a mess 
(and always has been and likely will be).


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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___

[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

> Am 14.02.2025 um 11:36 schrieb Steffen Wolfrum :
> 
> 
> 
>> Am 13.02.2025 um 17:37 schrieb Hans Hagen :
>> 
>> On 2/13/2025 3:28 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
 Am 12.02.2025 um 16:13 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context 
 :
 
 On 2/12/2025 3:48 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
> «Tagged PDF» still is broken:
> \setupbackend[
> format={pdf/a-1b:2005},
> profile={default_cmyk.icc,default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
> intent=Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004),
> level=0]
> \setupstructure[state=start,method=auto]
> \setupbackend[export=yes]
> \starttext
> TEST
> \stoptext
 
 define broken ... you're not enabling tagging and enabling export will 
 disable some other features so you get a different pdf anyway
>>> When I run this test files with e.g. ConTeXt  ver: 2022.07.06 21:42 LMTX
>>> then opening the PDF in Acrobat Reader it says: Document Properties > 
>>> Tagged PDF : »Yes«.
>>> When I use the current ConText its says »No«.
>>> And the publishing houses demand Tagged PDF (because of accessibility).
>> 
>> whatever that means ... for printing it doesn't matter ... for viewinfb they 
>> have to provide the tools and i bet they don't give you a full acrobat 
>> prescription
> 
> (of course not)
> 
> 
>> anyway, you don't read what we answer ... you need to enable tagging and not 
>> confuse it with exporting .. think something
>> 
>> \setuptagging
>> [state=start]
>> 
>> \setupbackend
>> [format=ua2]
>> 
>> \starttext
>>  TEST
>> \stoptext
>> 
>> instead.
>> 
>> Hans
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean that this example should provide the urgently desired alt-text:
> 
> \setuptagging
> [state=start]
> 
> \setupbackend
> [format=ua2]
> 
> \setupexternalfigures[location=default]
> 
> \starttext
>  \startPDFalternativetext{this is a cow}
>  \externalfigure[cow]
>  \stopPDFalternativetext
> \stoptext
> 
> 
> Really?! If so, I will send it to the publishers so they can check if it 
> fulfills their needs.
> 
> Steffen


I just received the feedback from the publishers: there is no alternative text 
in this example.

:o(

Steffen
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

> Am 13.02.2025 um 17:37 schrieb Hans Hagen :
> 
> On 2/13/2025 3:28 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>>> Am 12.02.2025 um 16:13 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> On 2/12/2025 3:48 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
 «Tagged PDF» still is broken:
 \setupbackend[
 format={pdf/a-1b:2005},
 profile={default_cmyk.icc,default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
 intent=Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004),
 level=0]
 \setupstructure[state=start,method=auto]
 \setupbackend[export=yes]
 \starttext
 TEST
 \stoptext
>>> 
>>> define broken ... you're not enabling tagging and enabling export will 
>>> disable some other features so you get a different pdf anyway
>> When I run this test files with e.g. ConTeXt  ver: 2022.07.06 21:42 LMTX
>> then opening the PDF in Acrobat Reader it says: Document Properties > Tagged 
>> PDF : »Yes«.
>> When I use the current ConText its says »No«.
>> And the publishing houses demand Tagged PDF (because of accessibility).
> 
> whatever that means ... for printing it doesn't matter ... for viewinfb they 
> have to provide the tools and i bet they don't give you a full acrobat 
> prescription

(of course not)


> anyway, you don't read what we answer ... you need to enable tagging and not 
> confuse it with exporting .. think something
> 
> \setuptagging
> [state=start]
> 
> \setupbackend
> [format=ua2]
> 
> \starttext
>   TEST
> \stoptext
> 
> instead.
> 
> Hans



Does that mean that this example should provide the urgently desired alt-text:

\setuptagging
[state=start]

\setupbackend
[format=ua2]

\setupexternalfigures[location=default]

\starttext
  \startPDFalternativetext{this is a cow}
  \externalfigure[cow]
  \stopPDFalternativetext
\stoptext


Really?! If so, I will send it to the publishers so they can check if it 
fulfills their needs.

Steffen



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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 2/13/2025 3:28 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:




Am 12.02.2025 um 16:13 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context :

On 2/12/2025 3:48 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

«Tagged PDF» still is broken:
\setupbackend[
format={pdf/a-1b:2005},
profile={default_cmyk.icc,default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
intent=Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004),
level=0]
\setupstructure[state=start,method=auto]
\setupbackend[export=yes]
\starttext
TEST
\stoptext


define broken ... you're not enabling tagging and enabling export will disable 
some other features so you get a different pdf anyway



When I run this test files with e.g. ConTeXt  ver: 2022.07.06 21:42 LMTX
then opening the PDF in Acrobat Reader it says: Document Properties > Tagged 
PDF : »Yes«.

When I use the current ConText its says »No«.

And the publishing houses demand Tagged PDF (because of accessibility).


whatever that means ... for printing it doesn't matter ... for viewinfb 
they have to provide the tools and i bet they don't give you a full 
acrobat prescription


anyway, you don't read what we answer ... you need to enable tagging and 
not confuse it with exporting .. think something


\setuptagging
  [state=start]

\setupbackend
  [format=ua2]

\starttext
TEST
\stoptext

instead.

Hans


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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

> Am 12.02.2025 um 16:13 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context 
> :
> 
> On 2/12/2025 3:48 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:
>> «Tagged PDF» still is broken:
>> \setupbackend[
>> format={pdf/a-1b:2005},
>> profile={default_cmyk.icc,default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
>> intent=Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004),
>> level=0]
>> \setupstructure[state=start,method=auto]
>> \setupbackend[export=yes]
>> \starttext
>> TEST
>> \stoptext
> 
> define broken ... you're not enabling tagging and enabling export will 
> disable some other features so you get a different pdf anyway


When I run this test files with e.g. ConTeXt  ver: 2022.07.06 21:42 LMTX 
then opening the PDF in Acrobat Reader it says: Document Properties > Tagged 
PDF : »Yes«.

When I use the current ConText its says »No«.

And the publishing houses demand Tagged PDF (because of accessibility).
Steffen 

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 2/12/2025 3:48 PM, Steffen Wolfrum wrote:

«Tagged PDF» still is broken:


\setupbackend[
format={pdf/a-1b:2005},
profile={default_cmyk.icc,default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
intent=Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004),
level=0]

\setupstructure[state=start,method=auto]
\setupbackend[export=yes]

\starttext
TEST
\stoptext


define broken ... you're not enabling tagging and enabling export will 
disable some other features so you get a different pdf anyway


Hans

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Steffen Wolfrum]

«Tagged PDF» still is broken:


\setupbackend[
format={pdf/a-1b:2005},
profile={default_cmyk.icc,default_rgb.icc,default_gray.icc},
intent=Coated FOGRA39 (ISO 12647-2:2004),
level=0]

\setupstructure[state=start,method=auto]
\setupbackend[export=yes]

\starttext
TEST
\stoptext


Steffen




> Am 12.02.2025 um 12:05 schrieb Hans Hagen :
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Thanks to Bruce end others for providing input and testing it we managed to 
> get binary that works on apple arm. Hopefully there are not more issues as we 
> need to make a tex live 2025 snapshot this month.
> 
> Hans

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 18.09.24 um 20:12 schrieb Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context:

On 9/17/24 22:12, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

[...]
The “discussed things” also involved annotations. Here’s some
documentation:
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Annotations
Please amend if something’s wrong/missing.



Sorry, but I’m afraid that I had to comment out the link to attachments
information, since there is no such feature.

…

I have a crappy patch that allows only direct links to embedded children
(no file attachment annotations).


Thank you. You’re right, I never checked this. I guess I got it from a 
mailing list message by you and thought it would be in the core.


Hraban
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 9/17/24 22:12, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> [...]
> The “discussed things” also involved annotations. Here’s some
> documentation:
> https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Annotations
> Please amend if something’s wrong/missing.

Many thanks for your explanation, Hraban.

Sorry, but I’m afraid that I had to comment out the link to attachments
information, since there is no such feature.

ConTeXt has a link to external PDF documents (/GoToR actions), but no
link to attachments (/GoToE actions).

An easy way to confirm this is to compile the source and then remove the
 external PDF document. You will have the attached document, but the
link won’t work when the external document isn’t available.

Sorry, but this is why I removed the final part from
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Annotations#Attachments.

The PDF spec includes some samples of links to attachments:
https://opensource.adobe.com/dc-acrobat-sdk-docs/pdfstandards/PDF32000_2008.pdf#page=429

I have a crappy patch that allows only direct links to embedded children
(no file attachment annotations).

I think it would be worth to allow /GoToE links to children and parents
(using ":>:" and ":<:" instead of "::") and for both embedded files and
file attachments.

I could try to provide some code for this.

As for the feature, it only works for PDF.js and Acrobat.

But I use it on a daily basis. It is the easiest way to make most people
go to an embedded document (without requiring them to understand what an
embedded file or attachments in PDF documents might be).

It would be great whether this feature would be useful to you or any
other from the list members.

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 17.09.24 um 13:52 schrieb Hans Hagen:

Hi,

I uploaded a new version. Apart from some things discussed here already 
the main update is in par passes (a bit more control, feedback, tracing 
etc) which will be explained over time (we're writing a wrapup).


The “discussed things” also involved annotations. Here’s some documentation:
https://wiki.contextgarden.net/Annotations
Please amend if something’s wrong/missing.

Hraban
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/1/2024 9:21 AM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

Am 31.07.24 um 19:55 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context:

Hi,

end of the month update:

- we are still working on the math manual so updates there (we want 
the manual to stable for the upcoming meeting)


- we also work on the export (some changes and additions there but we 
will conver that plus some new tools later when we're done, read: are 
satisfied with what browsers can handle sort of well)


- wolfgang updated the setups (command definitions) so plenty of 
improvements and completion in there (he also did some quality assurance)


- all kind of small thingies (some to be introduced at the upcoming 
meeting were as usual we also discuss development and priorities)


- there are some new \setupalign options, like 'notwins', 'notoddlers' 
and 'noorphans' in case someone wants to be surprised


as usual when we run into unforseen issues we'll fix it,


I dared to update, since Hans’ & Mikael’s article for the journal 
required the latest version. (I wonder what \startimage is about…)


related to the export, we'll demo it at the meeting: formulas, metapost 
etc; here it is used to make an images file so that you don't need to 
update (i assumed that you'd turn the text into whatever the journal 
needs (if you render yourself best also check if the examples come out 
right)



Being careful, I did a parallel install, but all looks good so far.


no fundamental changes

My book went from 490 to 484 pages, must investigate, might just be 
better paragraph/page/table breaking or something like that. Or is 
automatical nonsense-removal now included?


run old and new and then

context --extra=compare old.pdf new.pdf

it might be some improvement in page crossing

My usual TTC problem (all Cambria is Bold Cambria) didn’t show after 
installation of the distribution, but resurfaced after installing all 
modules. ("mtxrun --script font --reload --force" helped as usual.)
there is an issue with cambria and name resolving, i'll send you an 
alternative typescript we've been testing


Hans


-
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  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 31.07.24 um 19:55 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context:

Hi,

end of the month update:

- we are still working on the math manual so updates there (we want the 
manual to stable for the upcoming meeting)


- we also work on the export (some changes and additions there but we 
will conver that plus some new tools later when we're done, read: are 
satisfied with what browsers can handle sort of well)


- wolfgang updated the setups (command definitions) so plenty of 
improvements and completion in there (he also did some quality assurance)


- all kind of small thingies (some to be introduced at the upcoming 
meeting were as usual we also discuss development and priorities)


- there are some new \setupalign options, like 'notwins', 'notoddlers' 
and 'noorphans' in case someone wants to be surprised


as usual when we run into unforseen issues we'll fix it,


I dared to update, since Hans’ & Mikael’s article for the journal 
required the latest version. (I wonder what \startimage is about…)


Being careful, I did a parallel install, but all looks good so far.

My book went from 490 to 484 pages, must investigate, might just be 
better paragraph/page/table breaking or something like that. Or is 
automatical nonsense-removal now included?


My usual TTC problem (all Cambria is Bold Cambria) didn’t show after 
installation of the distribution, but resurfaced after installing all 
modules. ("mtxrun --script font --reload --force" helped as usual.)


Hraban

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Sound great, thanks!

I just don’t dare to update with printing deadlines approaching…

Hraban

Am 31.07.24 um 19:55 schrieb Hans Hagen via ntg-context:

Hi,

end of the month update:

- we are still working on the math manual so updates there (we want the 
manual to stable for the upcoming meeting)


- we also work on the export (some changes and additions there but we 
will conver that plus some new tools later when we're done, read: are 
satisfied with what browsers can handle sort of well)


- wolfgang updated the setups (command definitions) so plenty of 
improvements and completion in there (he also did some quality assurance)


- all kind of small thingies (some to be introduced at the upcoming 
meeting were as usual we also discuss development and priorities)


- there are some new \setupalign options, like 'notwins', 'notoddlers' 
and 'noorphans' in case someone wants to be surprised


as usual when we run into unforseen issues we'll fix it,

Hans

-
   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
    tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 4/1/2024 11:34 AM, Otared Kavian wrote:

Hi Hans and Mikael,

Thanks for the new module math-goodriddance !
Indeed there are many mathematicians who are going to use the 
\goodriddancemath command, and no doubt they are going to thank you, 
even if they are very shy to come out.


Moreover this command can be used by people who want to transform the 
output PDF into an audio file, because for instance the following


\usemodule[math-goodriddance]
\goodriddancemath

\starttext

\startformula
\int_{0}^{\pi} \sin(x)\dd x = 2.
\stopformula

\stoptext

gives

integral from 0 to 𝜋 , of sin of 𝑥 d 𝑥 equals 2


you cna be more ambituous:

\im { C \of (\openinterval{a,b}) \neq C^^2 \of (\interval{a,b}) \neq 
C^^2 \of \interval{0,1} \neq C\of(\Omega) \neq 𝒞 \of (\Omega)}


or

\dm {u\of(b)-u\of(a)=\lim_{n\to+\infty} \parenthesis{f(x__1)\Delta 
x__1+f(x__2)\Delta x__2+\ldots+f(x__n)\Delta x__n}}


so we can really get rid of a lot of math

as one can see in the attached output which is very useful for the blind 
using an audio software.
yes, although unfortunately unicode never bothered to add some handy 
stuff for that (while if did for other comparable things) but we'can get 
around that


I now assume that you are willing to come up with the french 
translations (that then can be validated by Alan).  Do we actually have 
serious german context math users, as I wouldn't trust Hraban and Thomas 
on doing this?


Hans


-
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   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Hans and Mikael,Thanks for the new module math-goodriddance ! Indeed there are many mathematicians who are going to use the \goodriddancemath command, and no doubt they are going to thank you, even if they are very shy to come out.Moreover this command can be used by people who want to transform the output PDF into an audio file, because for instance the following \usemodule[math-goodriddance]\goodriddancemath\starttext\startformula\int_{0}^{\pi} \sin(x)\dd x = 2.\stopformula\stoptextgives 
		
	
	
		
			
integral from 0 to 𝜋 , of sin of 𝑥 d 𝑥 equals 2 

			
		as one can see in the attached output which is very useful for the blind using an audio software.Best regards: OK

no-math.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
On 1 Apr 2024, at 16:31, Hans Hagen  wrote:Hi,There is a new lmtx upload.-- The svg inclusion via metapost has been upgraded and cleanup a bit, using some more recent metapost features. There are some new (not yet all documented metapost) features.-- In the process, support for LCH colors has been added, which is documented in the (eg luametafun manual).-- The math manual is not yet there because we were distracted by improving support for envelopes (penbased outlines) in metafun. This is still work in progress, some is present and discussed in the manual, and we'll come back to that sometime next month. Given the next item, we also might need to change some in the manual (different focus).-- Because we have users who have to conform to the European Accessibility Act we have been wondering how to deal with that and at Mikaels place there are two demands: distinctive colors and tagging and especially math (somehow validators love to check that). Colors never were an issue as they can be controlled, and tagging math neither, especially because nothing was/is done with it anyway, but ... we are happy that we found a reasonable (more modern and future proof) way out.As explained / shown in the attached document we're basically forced to choose a different approach with math (a pity as we worked hard to get the rendering right but the attached file works fine in the viewers that we tested).-- We like to hear from users what other demands wrt accessibility there are. We're not interested in the (commercial) big money aspects (of pdf and tagging) nor in the politics behind it (changes over time). What are the demands, so that we can see how to make it work or just work around it (as it's kind of boring to cook uyp complex features	, esp compared to playing with metapost).-- Furthermore .. the usual bits and pieces as discussed on the list and otherwise.-- If you have troubles (crash) you need to wipe the cache due to a change in lua bytecode storage (no easy way to catch it).Hans & Mikael-  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl-___If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nlwebpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/contextwiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net___
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Mikael Sundqvist]

Hi,

On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 9:36 AM Hans Hagen  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> There is a new lmtx upload.
>
> -- The svg inclusion via metapost has been upgraded and cleanup a bit,
> using some more recent metapost features. There are some new (not yet
> all documented metapost) features.
>
> -- In the process, support for LCH colors has been added, which is
> documented in the (eg luametafun manual).
>
> -- The math manual is not yet there because we were distracted by
> improving support for envelopes (penbased outlines) in metafun. This is
> still work in progress, some is present and discussed in the manual, and
> we'll come back to that sometime next month. Given the next item, we
> also might need to change some in the manual (different focus).
>
> -- Because we have users who have to conform to the European
> Accessibility Act we have been wondering how to deal with that and at
> Mikaels place there are two demands: distinctive colors and tagging and
> especially math (somehow validators love to check that). Colors never
> were an issue as they can be controlled, and tagging math neither,
> especially because nothing was/is done with it anyway, but ... we are
> happy that we found a reasonable (more modern and future proof) way out.
>
> As explained / shown in the attached document we're basically forced to
> choose a different approach with math (a pity as we worked hard to get
> the rendering right but the attached file works fine in the viewers that
> we tested).
>
> -- We like to hear from users what other demands wrt accessibility there
> are. We're not interested in the (commercial) big money aspects (of pdf
> and tagging) nor in the politics behind it (changes over time). What are
> the demands, so that we can see how to make it work or just work around
> it (as it's kind of boring to cook uyp complex features , esp compared
> to playing with metapost).
>
> -- Furthermore .. the usual bits and pieces as discussed on the list and
> otherwise.
>
> -- If you have troubles (crash) you need to wipe the cache due to a
> change in lua bytecode storage (no easy way to catch it).
>
> Hans & Mikael

In addition to what Hans wrote, I need to write and apologize. About
two years ago I was working on a big math project and needed SyncTeX
(code <-> okular) to work with it to get a smooth workflow. After
fighting it for several weeks, mailing Hans back and forth, without
any real support from Hans since "he was not using SyncTeX", I sent a
false patch to him that I claimed worked. It must have gotten in
without even being tested(!). Since then SyncTeX support for ConTeXt
has been broken.

Strengthened about how easy it was to add code to this project, and
still frustrated about the project (that is still not finished), I
started "collaborating" with Hans, mainly on math. During these years,
I have been baffled about how easy it has been to add malicious code,
he just swallows everything. I only needed to find out what Hans
really uses himself (a few tables, he likes colors, and he has a weak
point when it comes to "nice" metapost images), and then to add
patches for other stuff. For math, in particular, he seems to have no
understanding (sorry Hans). I am worried about the Dutch school
system.

Nevertheless, I have, during this time, more and more enjoyed our
discussions, and so I started to feel bad about my "patches", and
sorry for Hans. Thus, I have lately reverted, part by part, the bad
code. Only a few of them are left (but don't tell Hans!). I also got a
feeling that Wolfgang, checking all the code, since long did see this
through.

Thus, in the latest upload, for example, you might get SyncTeX working
again, but you might need to add \setupsynctex[state=repeat]. No
guarantees.

Again, my sincere apologies to all ConTeXters out there who have not
gotten the result they expect and deserve. I assume that Hans will
kick me out when the last patch is sent, so I will delay it as much as
possible...

/Mikael
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 2/15/2024 10:02 AM, luigi scarso wrote:

On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 at 13:47, Hans Hagen  wrote:


Hi,

as we're around texlive code freeze time we're also in upload mode

- i uploaded a new lmtx
- i also added linux and windows 32 bin (as it seems to have users)

- we're now using lua 5.5 which has one restriction (was already
announced a while ago):


hm, I don't see lua 5.5 around ... perhaps Lua 5.4.5 ?
it's beta stuff but luametatex is an good test for it as it used a lot 
of lua so it's s way to pay back for using lua


Hans

-
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  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Mikael Sundqvist]

Hi,

The 5.5 seems to come from https://github.com/lua/lua/blob/master/lua.h

/Mikael

On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 10:04 AM luigi scarso  wrote:
>
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 at 13:47, Hans Hagen  wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > as we're around texlive code freeze time we're also in upload mode
> >
> > - i uploaded a new lmtx
> > - i also added linux and windows 32 bin (as it seems to have users)
> >
> > - we're now using lua 5.5 which has one restriction (was already
> > announced a while ago):
>
> hm, I don't see lua 5.5 around ... perhaps Lua 5.4.5 ?
>
> --
> luigi
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[luigi scarso]

On Wed, 14 Feb 2024 at 13:47, Hans Hagen  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> as we're around texlive code freeze time we're also in upload mode
>
> - i uploaded a new lmtx
> - i also added linux and windows 32 bin (as it seems to have users)
>
> - we're now using lua 5.5 which has one restriction (was already
> announced a while ago):

hm, I don't see lua 5.5 around ... perhaps Lua 5.4.5 ?

--
luigi
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Thomas,

Thank you for your advice: I did add
chmod +x install.sh
and now the script runs without MacOS complaining. 

However, since I had downloaded a new script yesterday and had updated to 
version 2024.01.23, I cannot check whether the issue was adding +x to the file 
install.sh.

Best regards: Otared

> On 23 Jan 2024, at 22:06, Thomas A. Schmitz  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Otared,
> 
> I just tried, and my Macbook ran the update without any problem. Does it make 
> any difference if you chmod +x the script install.sh?
> 
> All best
> 
> Thomas
> 
> On 1/23/24 21:59, Otared Kavian wrote:
>> Hi Dr Hans Van der Meer,
>> Thank you for your help. It seems that since January 18 something has
>> changed (either on MacOS or on the install script), because the last
>> time I could update without doing anything more than sh install.sh.
>> In any case I checked xattr with
>>  which xattr
>> and got:
>>  /usr/bin/xattr
>> Then I did
>>  xattr -d com.apple.quarantine
>> /Applications/context-osx-arm64/install.sh
>> and got:
>>  xattr: /Applications/context-osx-arm64/install.sh: No such xattr:
>> com.apple.quarantine
>> Invoking again sh install.sh resulted in the error message I reported
>> previously.
>> Best regards: Otared
> 
> 
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Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95




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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Thomas A. Schmitz]

Hi Otared,

I just tried, and my Macbook ran the update without any problem. Does it 
make any difference if you chmod +x the script install.sh?


All best

Thomas

On 1/23/24 21:59, Otared Kavian wrote:

Hi Dr Hans Van der Meer,

Thank you for your help. It seems that since January 18 something has
changed (either on MacOS or on the install script), because the last
time I could update without doing anything more than sh install.sh.

In any case I checked xattr with
which xattr
and got:
/usr/bin/xattr

Then I did
xattr -d com.apple.quarantine
/Applications/context-osx-arm64/install.sh
and got:
xattr: /Applications/context-osx-arm64/install.sh: No such xattr:
com.apple.quarantine

Invoking again sh install.sh resulted in the error message I reported
previously.

Best regards: Otared



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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Otared Kavian]

Hi again,

I ended up downloading a new version of install.sh for MacOS from the Pragma 
site: using this allowed me to update to the latest version 2024-01-23:10H02.

Thanks for the help to all !

Best regards: Otared

> On 23 Jan 2024, at 21:08, Hans van der Meer via ntg-context 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just did 'sh install.sh' a moment ago without problems.
> In the past I had to do xattr -d com.apple.quarantaine path-to-executable 
> once but not anymore.
> I think the xattr resides in the Apple command tools. Are you sure you have 
> them?
> 
> yours sincerely
> dr. Hans van der Meer
> 
> 
> 
>> On 23 Jan 2024, at 17:29, Otared Kavian  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Hans,
>> 
>> I tried to update to your latest version (for MacOS Arm1) with the command 
>>  sh install.sh
>> but obtained the following message and no update:
>> 
>> xattr: bin/mtxrun: No such xattr: com.apple.quarantine
>> install.sh: line 110: 62611 Killed: 9   $PWD/bin/mtxrun --script 
>> ./bin/mtx-install.lua --update --server="$LMTXSERVER" 
>> --instance="$LMTXINSTANCE" --platform="$PLATFORM" --erase 
>> --extras="$LMTXEXTRAS" $@
>> 
>> 
>> Since I have a working (and backed up…) version 2024-01-18, there is no 
>> absolute necessity for me to update right now, but I wanted just to inform 
>> you about the issue I encountered. I wonder whether other MacOS users have 
>> had such a problem.
>> 
>> Best regards: Otared
>> 
>>> On 23 Jan 2024, at 10:09, Hans Hagen via ntg-context  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 1/20/2024 10:32 AM, Ursula Hermann wrote:
 32 bits Windows download does not work, because 404 report.
>>> 
>>> i uploaded a win32 installer (for now we only keep 32 bit win but once all 
>>> users are on 64 bit ...)
>>> 
>>> the current upload is as usual work in progress
>>> 
>>> Hans
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>>  tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
>>> -
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
>>> the Wiki!
>>> 
>>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
>>> https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
>>> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
>>> archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
>>> wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
>>> ___
>> 
>> Otared Kavian
>> e-mail: ota...@gmail.com
>> Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
>> the Wiki!
>> 
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
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>> archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
>> wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
>> ___
> 
> ___
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> 
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Dr Hans Van der Meer,

Thank you for your help. It seems that since January 18 something has changed 
(either on MacOS or on the install script), because the last time I could 
update without doing anything more than sh install.sh.

In any case I checked xattr with
which xattr
and got:
/usr/bin/xattr

Then I did 
xattr -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/context-osx-arm64/install.sh
and got:
xattr: /Applications/context-osx-arm64/install.sh: No such xattr: 
com.apple.quarantine

Invoking again sh install.sh resulted in the error message I reported 
previously.

Best regards: Otared




> On 23 Jan 2024, at 21:08, Hans van der Meer via ntg-context 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just did 'sh install.sh' a moment ago without problems.
> In the past I had to do xattr -d com.apple.quarantaine path-to-executable 
> once but not anymore.
> I think the xattr resides in the Apple command tools. Are you sure you have 
> them?
> 
> yours sincerely
> dr. Hans van der Meer
> 
> 
> 
>> On 23 Jan 2024, at 17:29, Otared Kavian  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Hans,
>> 
>> I tried to update to your latest version (for MacOS Arm1) with the command 
>>  sh install.sh
>> but obtained the following message and no update:
>> 
>> xattr: bin/mtxrun: No such xattr: com.apple.quarantine
>> install.sh: line 110: 62611 Killed: 9   $PWD/bin/mtxrun --script 
>> ./bin/mtx-install.lua --update --server="$LMTXSERVER" 
>> --instance="$LMTXINSTANCE" --platform="$PLATFORM" --erase 
>> --extras="$LMTXEXTRAS" $@
>> 
>> 
>> Since I have a working (and backed up…) version 2024-01-18, there is no 
>> absolute necessity for me to update right now, but I wanted just to inform 
>> you about the issue I encountered. I wonder whether other MacOS users have 
>> had such a problem.
>> 
>> Best regards: Otared
>> 
>>> On 23 Jan 2024, at 10:09, Hans Hagen via ntg-context  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 1/20/2024 10:32 AM, Ursula Hermann wrote:
 32 bits Windows download does not work, because 404 report.
>>> 
>>> i uploaded a win32 installer (for now we only keep 32 bit win but once all 
>>> users are on 64 bit ...)
>>> 
>>> the current upload is as usual work in progress
>>> 
>>> Hans
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>>> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>>  tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
>>> -
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
>>> the Wiki!
>>> 
>>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
>>> https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
>>> webpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
>>> archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
>>> wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
>>> ___
>> 
>> Otared Kavian
>> e-mail: ota...@gmail.com
>> Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
>> the Wiki!
>> 
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
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>> archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
>> wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
>> ___
> 
> ___
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> 
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Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95




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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans van der Meer via ntg-context]

Just did 'sh install.sh' a moment ago without problems.
In the past I had to do xattr -d com.apple.quarantaine path-to-executable once 
but not anymore.
I think the xattr resides in the Apple command tools. Are you sure you have 
them?

yours sincerely
dr. Hans van der Meer



> On 23 Jan 2024, at 17:29, Otared Kavian  wrote:
> 
> Hi Hans,
> 
> I tried to update to your latest version (for MacOS Arm1) with the command 
>   sh install.sh
> but obtained the following message and no update:
> 
> xattr: bin/mtxrun: No such xattr: com.apple.quarantine
> install.sh: line 110: 62611 Killed: 9   $PWD/bin/mtxrun --script 
> ./bin/mtx-install.lua --update --server="$LMTXSERVER" 
> --instance="$LMTXINSTANCE" --platform="$PLATFORM" --erase 
> --extras="$LMTXEXTRAS" $@
> 
> 
> Since I have a working (and backed up…) version 2024-01-18, there is no 
> absolute necessity for me to update right now, but I wanted just to inform 
> you about the issue I encountered. I wonder whether other MacOS users have 
> had such a problem.
> 
> Best regards: Otared
> 
>> On 23 Jan 2024, at 10:09, Hans Hagen via ntg-context  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> On 1/20/2024 10:32 AM, Ursula Hermann wrote:
>>> 32 bits Windows download does not work, because 404 report.
>> 
>> i uploaded a win32 installer (for now we only keep 32 bit win but once all 
>> users are on 64 bit ...)
>> 
>> the current upload is as usual work in progress
>> 
>> Hans
>> 
>> -
>> Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>> Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>>  tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
>> -
>> 
>> ___
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to 
>> the Wiki!
>> 
>> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / 
>> https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
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>> archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
>> wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
>> ___
> 
> Otared Kavian
> e-mail: ota...@gmail.com
> Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Bruce Horrocks]

On 23 Jan 2024, at 16:29, Otared Kavian  wrote:
> 
> I wonder whether other MacOS users have had such a problem.

Both Intel and ARM macs updated perfectly for me, just now.

Regards,
—
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire, UK

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Hans,

I tried to update to your latest version (for MacOS Arm1) with the command 
sh install.sh
but obtained the following message and no update:

xattr: bin/mtxrun: No such xattr: com.apple.quarantine
install.sh: line 110: 62611 Killed: 9   $PWD/bin/mtxrun --script 
./bin/mtx-install.lua --update --server="$LMTXSERVER" 
--instance="$LMTXINSTANCE" --platform="$PLATFORM" --erase 
--extras="$LMTXEXTRAS" $@


Since I have a working (and backed up…) version 2024-01-18, there is no 
absolute necessity for me to update right now, but I wanted just to inform you 
about the issue I encountered. I wonder whether other MacOS users have had such 
a problem.

Best regards: Otared

> On 23 Jan 2024, at 10:09, Hans Hagen via ntg-context  
> wrote:
> 
> On 1/20/2024 10:32 AM, Ursula Hermann wrote:
>> 32 bits Windows download does not work, because 404 report.
> 
> i uploaded a win32 installer (for now we only keep 32 bit win but once all 
> users are on 64 bit ...)
> 
> the current upload is as usual work in progress
> 
> Hans
> 
> -
>  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
>   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
> 
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the 
> Wiki!
> 
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> wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
> ___

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e-mail: ota...@gmail.com
Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95




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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 1/20/2024 10:32 AM, Ursula Hermann wrote:

32 bits Windows download does not work, because 404 report.


i uploaded a win32 installer (for now we only keep 32 bit win but once 
all users are on 64 bit ...)


the current upload is as usual work in progress

Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Alain Delmotte]

Hi Hans,

Le 20-01-24 à 09:38, Hans Hagen via ntg-context a écrit :

On 1/19/2024 6:34 PM, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:

On 1/18/24 20:43, Denis Maier via ntg-context wrote:

*Von:*Alain Delmotte 
*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. Januar 2024 20:04
*An:* ntg-context@ntg.nl
*Betreff:* [NTG-context] Re: upload
[...]
When I go to https://www.pragma-ade.nl, I get an 404 
Not Found

message, so I can't download the new upload !!
Works here.


Hi Denis,

I get a 404 error for both 
https://www.pragma-ade.nl/install.htm and

https://www.pragma-ade.com/install.htm.

I can update my existing installed version, but I 
wouldn’t be able to

install a brand new distribution.

Do you reach any of the urls included in my first paragraph?

Many thanks for your help,

can you try again



I tried and passed the first step: I can go to the 
"Installation" page, but then again "Error 404" when I click 
on the "64 bit Microsoft Windows" link. Then I also tried 
"https://lmtx.pragma-ade.nl/install-llmtx/context-win64.zip"; 
and I got the file!


Thanks,

Alain

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 1/20/24 09:38, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> On 1/19/2024 6:34 PM, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:
>> [...]
>> I get a 404 error for both https://www.pragma-ade.nl/install.htm and
>> https://www.pragma-ade.com/install.htm.
>> [...]
> can you try again?

Many thanks for the fast fix, Hans.

Pablo

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 1/20/2024 10:32 AM, Ursula Hermann wrote:

32 bits Windows download does not work, because 404 report.


32 bit windows has been dropped for now, i could generate native win32 
bins but they are less performing that mingw crosscompiled but all this 
is more manual work than using the garden build


I might add it when the garden build is up and running which might 
happen one of these days.


So, how many 32 bit bin users are out there? And for how long? Any linux 
32 users?


Hans




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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Ursula Hermann]

32 bits Windows download does not work, because 404 report.
Uschi 

Von: vm via ntg-context 
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Jänner 2024 09:58:15
An: ntg-context@ntg.nl
Cc: vm
Betreff: [NTG-context] Re: upload



On 20/01/2024 09:38, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:
> can you try again

it made a difference, no 404 ;-)
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[vm via ntg-context]

On 20/01/2024 09:38, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote:

can you try again


it made a difference, no 404 ;-)
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 1/19/2024 6:34 PM, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:

On 1/18/24 20:43, Denis Maier via ntg-context wrote:

*Von:*Alain Delmotte 
*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. Januar 2024 20:04
*An:* ntg-context@ntg.nl
*Betreff:* [NTG-context] Re: upload
[...]
When I go to https://www.pragma-ade.nl, I get an 404 Not Found
message, so I can't download the new upload !!
Works here.


Hi Denis,

I get a 404 error for both https://www.pragma-ade.nl/install.htm and
https://www.pragma-ade.com/install.htm.

I can update my existing installed version, but I wouldn’t be able to
install a brand new distribution.

Do you reach any of the urls included in my first paragraph?

Many thanks for your help,

can you try again

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Alain Delmotte]

Hi Otared,

Le 19-01-24 à 22:56, Otared Kavian a écrit :

Hi Pablo,

Indeed the two URL you mention result t a 404 error. I 
guess the correct URL is

https://www.pragma-ade.nl

and there one may go to the appropriate tab.

Best regards: Otared


No it doesn't work. I ttried many times.

Alain




On 19 Jan 2024, at 18:34, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 
 wrote:


On 1/18/24 20:43, Denis Maier via ntg-context wrote:

*Von:*Alain Delmotte 
*Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. Januar 2024 20:04
*An:* ntg-context@ntg.nl
*Betreff:* [NTG-context] Re: upload
[...]
When I go to https://www.pragma-ade.nl, I get an 404 
Not Found

message, so I can't download the new upload !!
Works here.


Hi Denis,

I get a 404 error for both 
https://www.pragma-ade.nl/install.htm and

https://www.pragma-ade.com/install.htm.

I can update my existing installed version, but I 
wouldn’t be able to

install a brand new distribution.

Do you reach any of the urls included in my first paragraph?

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo

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Otared Kavian
e-mail: ota...@gmail.com <mailto:ota...@gmail.com>
Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95





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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Pablo,

Indeed the two URL you mention result t a 404 error. I guess the correct URL is
 https://www.pragma-ade.nl <https://www.pragma-ade.nl/>

and there one may go to the appropriate tab.

Best regards: Otared

> On 19 Jan 2024, at 18:34, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 1/18/24 20:43, Denis Maier via ntg-context wrote:
>>> *Von:*Alain Delmotte 
>>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. Januar 2024 20:04
>>> *An:* ntg-context@ntg.nl
>>> *Betreff:* [NTG-context] Re: upload
>>> [...]
>>> When I go to https://www.pragma-ade.nl, I get an 404 Not Found
>>> message, so I can't download the new upload !!
>>> Works here.
> 
> Hi Denis,
> 
> I get a 404 error for both https://www.pragma-ade.nl/install.htm and
> https://www.pragma-ade.com/install.htm.
> 
> I can update my existing installed version, but I wouldn’t be able to
> install a brand new distribution.
> 
> Do you reach any of the urls included in my first paragraph?
> 
> Many thanks for your help,
> 
> Pablo
> 
> ___
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> Wiki!
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e-mail: ota...@gmail.com
Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95




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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Denis Maier via ntg-context]

 
 
  
    
   
   
   
Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context <ntg-context@ntg.nl> hat am 19.01.2024 18:34 CET geschrieben:

   
 

   
 

   
On 1/18/24 20:43, Denis Maier via ntg-context wrote:

   
>> *Von:*Alain Delmotte <alain.delmo...@leliseron.org>

   
>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. Januar 2024 20:04

   
>> *An:* ntg-context@ntg.nl
    
   
    >> *Betreff:* [NTG-context] Re: upload

   
>> [...]

   
>> When I go to https://www.pragma-ade.nl, I get an 404 Not Found

   
>> message, so I can't download the new upload !!


 
 
  Works here.
  
 

   
Hi Denis,

   
 

   
I get a 404 error for both https://www.pragma-ade.nl/install.htm and

   
https://www.pragma-ade.com/install.htm.

   
 

   
I can update my existing installed version, but I wouldn’t be able to

   
install a brand new distribution.

   
 

   
Do you reach any of the urls included in my first paragraph?

   
  
    
   
  
   No. 404 here as well.
   
  
   Best,
   
  
   Denis
   
  
    
  
 

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context]

On 1/18/24 20:43, Denis Maier via ntg-context wrote:
>> *Von:*Alain Delmotte 
>> *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 18. Januar 2024 20:04
>> *An:* ntg-context@ntg.nl
>> *Betreff:* [NTG-context] Re: upload
>> [...]
>> When I go to https://www.pragma-ade.nl, I get an 404 Not Found
>> message, so I can't download the new upload !!
> > Works here.

Hi Denis,

I get a 404 error for both https://www.pragma-ade.nl/install.htm and
https://www.pragma-ade.com/install.htm.

I can update my existing installed version, but I wouldn’t be able to
install a brand new distribution.

Do you reach any of the urls included in my first paragraph?

Many thanks for your help,

Pablo

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Denis Maier via ntg-context]

Works here.

Best,

Denis

 

Von: Alain Delmotte  
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. Januar 2024 20:04
An: ntg-context@ntg.nl
Betreff: [NTG-context] Re: upload

 

Hi,

When I go to https://www.pragma-ade.nl/ I get an 404 Not Found message, so I 
can't download the new upload !!

Any reason?

Alain

Le 18-01-24 à 00:13, Hans Hagen a écrit :

Hi, 

I uploaded a new version (there is some work in progress but it probably 
doesn't affect anyone). 

Hans 


- 
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  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands 
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl <http://www.pragma-ade.nl>  | 
www.pragma-pod.nl <http://www.pragma-pod.nl>  
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Alain Delmotte]

Hi,

When I go to https://www.pragma-ade.nl/ I get an 404 Not 
Found message, so I can't download the new upload !!


Any reason?

Alain

Le 18-01-24 à 00:13, Hans Hagen a écrit :

Hi,

I uploaded a new version (there is some work in progress 
but it probably doesn't affect anyone).


Hans


- 

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PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The 
Netherlands
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www.pragma-pod.nl
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 1/18/2024 3:27 PM, Otared Kavian wrote:

Dear Dalyoung, dear Mikael,

I installed anew the whole LMTX tree and now everything is working fine.
I don’t know whether this is related or not, somehow in my previous tree 
I had a directory (or folder in the MacOS language) named « texmf-osx-64 
» instead « texmf-osx-arm64 » and this apparently had consequences.


In any case everything works fine now.

Thanks to Hans, Mikael and all the people on this list!

concerning the prime, use

  $x\prime$ and not $x^\prime$ as you might want $x^2\prime$ some day

in the first case it's really a prime, in the second case a prime symbol 
in a superscript; in lmtx we have for each nucleus a presubscript, 
presuperscript, subscript, superscript and primescript (plus index ones)


Hans


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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Otared Kavian]

Dear Dalyoung, dear Mikael,

I installed anew the whole LMTX tree and now everything is working fine. 
I don’t know whether this is related or not, somehow in my previous tree I had 
a directory (or folder in the MacOS language) named « texmf-osx-64 » instead « 
texmf-osx-arm64 » and this apparently had consequences.

In any case everything works fine now.

Thanks to Hans, Mikael and all the people on this list!

Best regards: Otared

> On 18 Jan 2024, at 08:17, Jeong Dal via ntg-context  
> wrote:
> 
> Dear Otared,
> 
> I installed upload version today.
> And, your example,
> 
> \starttext
> The derivative of $f$ is denoted $f'$ or $f^\prime$ or is it $f^'$\dots
> \stoptext
> 
> works well.
> 
> I think that you will have the same good result.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Dalyoung
> 
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e-mail: ota...@gmail.com
Phone: +33 6 88 26 70 95




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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Jeong Dal via ntg-context]

Dear Otared,

I installed upload version today.
And, your example,

\starttext
The derivative of $f$ is denoted $f'$ or $f^\prime$ or is it $f^'$\dots
\stoptext

works well.

I think that you will have the same good result.

Best wishes,

Dalyoung

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Mikael Sundqvist]

Hi Otared,

On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 2:37 AM Otared Kavian  wrote:
>
> Hi Hans,
>
> Thanks for the new upload which solves the math alignment mechanism. However 
> I noticed that the classic notation $f’$ for the derivative does not work 
> anymore, while $f^\prime$ or $f^’$ does.
>
> \starttext
> The derivative of $f$ is denoted $f'$ or $f^\prime$ or is it $f^'$\dots
> \stoptext
>
> Best regards: Otared

There has been work in the last days on multiple sub/superscripts
and/or primes. But again your example works here. Just to be sure, did
you upgrade both the zip and the binary?

/Mikael
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Hans,Thanks for the new upload which solves the math alignment mechanism. However I noticed that the classic notation $f’$ for the derivative does not work anymore, while $f^\prime$ or $f^’$ does.\starttextThe derivative of $f$ is denoted $f'$ or $f^\prime$ or is it $f^'$\dots\stoptextBest regards: Otared

brouillon.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
On 18 Jan 2024, at 00:13, Hans Hagen  wrote:Hi,I uploaded a new version (there is some work in progress but it probably doesn't affect anyone).Hans-  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl-___If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nlwebpage  : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)archive  : https://github.com/contextgarden/contextwiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net___
Otared Kaviane-mail: ota...@gmail.comPhone: +33 6 88 26 70 95

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Thangalin]

That works Hans, thank you.

line 802 in core-env should be:
>
> \permanent\tolerant\protected\def\setupenv
>{\syst_variables_set\getrawparameters[\s!environment]}
>
> (seems i forgot that one when doing some cleanup)
>
> Hans
>
> -
>Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
>
>
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/11/2023 3:31 AM, Thangalin wrote:

Did arguments regress in 2023.08.10 02:59?

$ cat u.tex
\starttext
Feisty arguments
\stoptext
$ context u.tex
$  ls -la *.pdf
-rw-r--r-- 1 username username 6279 Aug 10 18:28 u.pdf
$ context --arguments=x=y u.tex | grep error
tex error   > tex error on line 13 in file : Use of \getrawparameters
doesn't match its definition
mtx-context | fatal error: return code: 1

This was working with the previous release.

line 802 in core-env should be:

\permanent\tolerant\protected\def\setupenv
  {\syst_variables_set\getrawparameters[\s!environment]}

(seems i forgot that one when doing some cleanup)

Hans

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Thangalin]

Did arguments regress in 2023.08.10 02:59?

$ cat u.tex
\starttext
Feisty arguments
\stoptext
$ context u.tex
$  ls -la *.pdf
-rw-r--r-- 1 username username 6279 Aug 10 18:28 u.pdf
$ context --arguments=x=y u.tex | grep error
tex error   > tex error on line 13 in file : Use of \getrawparameters
doesn't match its definition
mtx-context | fatal error: return code: 1

This was working with the previous release.

On Wed, Aug 9, 2023 at 8:43 AM Hans Hagen  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I uploaded a new lmtx. There are some new features that wil be revealed
> in the future (likely after the meeting) but here is one:
>
> \starttext
>
>  \defineoverlay
>[test]
>[\color
>   [blue]
>   {TEST
>\inframed
>  [foregroundcolor=red]
>  {xxx}
>TEST}]
>
>  \framed
>[background=test,
> foregroundstyle=\switchtobodyfont[small]]
>{test}
>
> \stoptext
>
>  From now on many commands accept (properly) nested [] inside commands
> that use [] as fences (like the setup commands) where it makes sense. It
> is up to the user to decide to use {} (as before) or not but it is less
> error prone.
>
> It is now also possible to nest setups as in
>
> \starttext
>
> \startsetups one
>  \startsetups [three]
>  HERE
>  \stopsetups
> \stopsetups
>
> \startsetups two
>  \startsetups [three]
>  THERE
>  \stopsetups
> \stopsetups
>
> \setups[one] \setups[three]
>
> \setups[two] \setups[three]
>
> \stoptext
>
> As part of the ongoing improvements on math rendering we added some
> classic lm/cm kerns (between upperacse and periods / commas) in the
> goodie files.
>
> Some lowlevel manuals have been extended, explaining experimental 'named
> cross macro nesting parameter referencing' and 'constrained cq. retained
> assignments', but that is only relevant for those interested in
> overcoming some limitations in the traditional engines.
>
> Hans
>
>
> -
>Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
>Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
> tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
> -
>
> ___
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 10.08.23 um 17:02 schrieb Wolfgang Schuster:
indeed that was the issue, seems like i generated the update but 
didn't push it, can you check again?


It works now as expected.


Confirmed.
Thank you!

Hraban

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Hans Hagen via ntg-context schrieb am 10.08.2023 um 16:41:

On 8/10/2023 3:52 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Henning Hraban Ramm schrieb am 10.08.2023 um 15:33:

I was already on the latest, and the problem persists. Here’s a MWE:

"""
\setupreferencing[left=,right=,]

\starttext

\about[something]

\stoptext
"""


It's unrelated to \about. Using nothing as argument to the last key 
doesn't work, e.g. in the following example "b" keeps \endgroup as 
value when I wrote "b=".


\starttext

\getdummyparameters[a=\begingroup,b=\endgroup]

\dummyparameter{a}
\dummyparameter{b}

% b is still \endgroup

\getdummyparameters[a=,b=]

\dummyparameter{a}
\dummyparameter{b}

\stoptext
indeed that was the issue, seems like i generated the update but 
didn't push it, can you check again?


It works now as expected.

Wolfgang

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen via ntg-context]

On 8/10/2023 3:52 PM, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

Henning Hraban Ramm schrieb am 10.08.2023 um 15:33:

I was already on the latest, and the problem persists. Here’s a MWE:

"""
\setupreferencing[left=,right=,]

\starttext

\about[something]

\stoptext
"""


It's unrelated to \about. Using nothing as argument to the last key 
doesn't work, e.g. in the following example "b" keeps \endgroup as value 
when I wrote "b=".


\starttext

\getdummyparameters[a=\begingroup,b=\endgroup]

\dummyparameter{a}
\dummyparameter{b}

% b is still \endgroup

\getdummyparameters[a=,b=]

\dummyparameter{a}
\dummyparameter{b}

\stoptext
indeed that was the issue, seems like i generated the update but didn't 
push it, can you check again?


Hans

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Wolfgang Schuster]

Henning Hraban Ramm schrieb am 10.08.2023 um 15:33:

I was already on the latest, and the problem persists. Here’s a MWE:

"""
\setupreferencing[left=,right=,]

\starttext

\about[something]

\stoptext
"""


It's unrelated to \about. Using nothing as argument to the last key 
doesn't work, e.g. in the following example "b" keeps \endgroup as value 
when I wrote "b=".


\starttext

\getdummyparameters[a=\begingroup,b=\endgroup]

\dummyparameter{a}
\dummyparameter{b}

% b is still \endgroup

\getdummyparameters[a=,b=]

\dummyparameter{a}
\dummyparameter{b}

\stoptext

Wolfgang

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 10.08.23 um 15:03 schrieb Hans Hagen:

On 8/10/2023 2:57 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

Am 09.08.23 um 23:11 schrieb Hans Hagen:

On 8/9/2023 9:29 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
Two problems with this upload. First, page number suppression no 
longer works. Second, table captions are not displayed.


indeed, probably a fix tomorrow


I don’t know if that’s the same problem, but the current version gives 
a parsing error at

\quotation{\about[kap:example]}

(2023.07.29 still works.)

there was a new upload


I was already on the latest, and the problem persists. Here’s a MWE:

"""
\setupreferencing[left=,right=,]

\starttext

\about[something]

\stoptext
"""

tex error   > tex error on line 5 in file referencetest.tex: Extra 
}, or forgotten \endgroup



\egroup
 \about
...ways \let \\\space \postponenotes \referencingparameter \c!left 
\doifelsereferencefound {#1} {\goto {\limitatetext 
\currentreferencetitle {\referencingparameter \c!width }\unknown 
}[#1]}{}\flushnotes \referencingparameter \c!right

\endgroup

\about[something]

1 \setupreferencing[left=,right=,]
2
3 \starttext
4
5 >>  \about[something]
6
7 \stoptext
8
I've deleted a group-closing symbol because it seems to be spurious, as in
'$x}$'. But perhaps the } is legitimate and you forgot something else, as in
'\hbox{$x}'.
mtx-context | fatal error: return code: 1

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/10/2023 2:57 PM, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:

Am 09.08.23 um 23:11 schrieb Hans Hagen:

On 8/9/2023 9:29 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
Two problems with this upload. First, page number suppression no 
longer works. Second, table captions are not displayed.


indeed, probably a fix tomorrow


I don’t know if that’s the same problem, but the current version gives a 
parsing error at

\quotation{\about[kap:example]}

(2023.07.29 still works.)

there was a new upload

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Henning Hraban Ramm]

Am 09.08.23 um 23:11 schrieb Hans Hagen:

On 8/9/2023 9:29 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:
Two problems with this upload. First, page number suppression no 
longer works. Second, table captions are not displayed.


indeed, probably a fix tomorrow


I don’t know if that’s the same problem, but the current version gives a 
parsing error at

\quotation{\about[kap:example]}

(2023.07.29 still works.)

Hraban
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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 8/9/2023 9:29 PM, Rik Kabel wrote:


On 8/9/2023 11:42 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

Hi,

I uploaded a new lmtx. There are some new features that wil be 
revealed in the future (likely after the meeting) but here is one:



Two problems with this upload. First, page number suppression no longer 
works. Second, table captions are not displayed.


indeed, probably a fix tomorrow

-
  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
-

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[NTG-context] Re: upload

[Rik Kabel]

On 8/9/2023 11:42 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

Hi,

I uploaded a new lmtx. There are some new features that wil be 
revealed in the future (likely after the meeting) but here is one:



Two problems with this upload. First, page number suppression no longer 
works. Second, table captions are not displayed.



   \setuppagenumbering [alternative=doublesided,location=]

   \setupcaption[style=sans,headstyle=sans]

   \starttext
   \startchapter[title={Page Numbering Test}]

   \startplacetable[location={here,spit,force},title={Title?}]
   \starttabulate[|rp|lp|]
   \HL \NC tufte \NC \input tufte \NC \AR
    \NC ward \NC \input ward \NC \AR
    \NC montgomery \NC \input montgomery \NC \AR \HL
   \stoptabulate
   \stopplacetable

   \dorecurse{7}{ \input tufte \par}

   \stopchapter
   \stoptext

--
RIk
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[NTG-context] RE : upload / metafun

[Joseph]

Hi, FYI, when running install.bat I see problem downloading exe mtx-install | changed  :   0 % :  2391552 : tex/texmf-win64/bin/luametatex.exemtx-install | tex/texmf-win64/bin/luametatex.exe, trying again: After several attempts, the install.bat run stops.Thanks Joseph De : Hans HagenEnvoyé le :mardi 15 décembre 2020 10:35À : mailing list for ConTeXt usersObjet :[NTG-context] upload / metafun Hi, I uploaded a new lmtx. This time some work has been done at the metafun end. At the tex end we're working on some overload protection mechanism which involves tagging many macro so that will take a while (most tagging is done but checking left over cases take time). So, I wondered if we can do something similar in metapost: flag macros and variables in order to issue a warnings when a dangerous overload happens. The current lmtx has this as an experiment: primitives, permanent, immutable and mutable (so far); you can look at the *.mpxl files to get an idea. If you say for instance  path fullcircle; there will be a warning metapost    > overloading immutable 'fullcircle' or when \enabledirectives[metapost.overloadmode=error] has been given you get an error. The implementation is rather simple and non intrusive and differs fromthe one in tex. There it is tightly integrated for all kind of reasons (millions of macro definitions per run so efficiency matters). Also, in metapost variables (tags) can have complex name constructions and we only test the top level. When a overload happens (overloadmode internal <> 0) a lua callback takes care of it. A side effect is that we can query all hash entries and check for consistency which is what i've done and am doing now. Of course that can introduce issues ... just that you know. Hans -   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands    tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl-___If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-contextwebpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.netarchive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/wiki : http://contextgarden.net___ 
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Re: [NTG-context] RE : upload

[Floris van Manen]

On 25/11/2020 16:48, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

Just out of curiosity, could you fix your already installed ConTeXt version?


no, that did not work.
I just dumped the whole folder after a new folder/download seemed to 
work again.


.F
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Re: [NTG-context] RE : upload

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 11/24/20 7:22 PM, Floris van Manen wrote:
> On 24/11/2020 18:28, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:
>> I’m afraid you are getting an old version, since the newer one reads:
>>
>> mtx-context | ConTeXt Process Management 1.04
>> mtx-context |
>> mtx-context | main context file:
>> /home/ousia/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/context.mkiv
>> mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.24 00:41
>> mtx-context | main context file:
>> /home/ousia/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/context.mkxl
>> mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.24 00:41
>
> Well I can see that there is two versions.

Hi Floris,

the two versions you see are related to the code split mentioned by Hans
(my guess).

MkXL is now independent from MkIV. The version is the same, but there
are two codebases in the same distribution.

Think of it as MkII and MkIV contained in ConTeXt Standalone.

> But when unzipping the new context-linux-64.zip (nov 24 00:24)
> then run the install script
> sh ./install.sh
> will not solve the issue...

You shouldn’t need to download context-linux-64.zip.

Running install.sh on Linux should work fine again. No need to remove
tex/texmf-*.tma, either.

> So context is not working anymore.
> Any hints?

Just out of curiosity, could you fix your already installed ConTeXt version?

Pablo
--
http://www.ousia.tk
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Re: [NTG-context] RE : upload

[Floris van Manen]

by creating a new empty ~/context folder, then unzip the distribution 
and running the install script made Context work again.


.F
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Re: [NTG-context] RE : upload

[Floris van Manen]

On 24/11/2020 18:28, Pablo Rodriguez wrote:

I’m afraid you are getting an old version, since the newer one reads:

mtx-context | ConTeXt Process Management 1.04
mtx-context |
mtx-context | main context file:
/home/ousia/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/context.mkiv
mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.24 00:41
mtx-context | main context file:
/home/ousia/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/context.mkxl
mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.24 00:41


Well I can see that there is two versions.
But when unzipping the new context-linux-64.zip (nov 24 00:24)
then run the install script
sh ./install.sh
will not solve the issue...

So context is not working anymore.
Any hints?

.Floris
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Re: [NTG-context] RE : upload

[Pablo Rodriguez]

On 11/23/20 11:33 PM, Floris van Manen wrote:
> [...]
> I still get the error:
>
> csname overload > fatal error, protection level 4, control sequence
> 'textcontrolspace', properties 'immutable', file 'enco-ini.mkxl', line 315
>
> Also aafter the update I got two different current versions:
>
> $ context --version
> mtx-context | ConTeXt Process Management 1.04
> mtx-context |
> mtx-context | main context file:
> /home/vm/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/context.mkiv
> mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.23 22:40
> mtx-context | main context file:
> /home/vm/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/context.mkxl
> mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.19 11:28

Hi Floris,

I’m afraid you are getting an old version, since the newer one reads:

mtx-context | ConTeXt Process Management 1.04
mtx-context |
mtx-context | main context file:
/home/ousia/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/context.mkiv
mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.24 00:41
mtx-context | main context file:
/home/ousia/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/context.mkxl
mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.24 00:41

Just in case it helps,

Pablo
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Re: [NTG-context] RE : upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/24/2020 1:47 AM, Rik Kabel wrote:

\version[draft]
\starttext
Hi!
\stoptext


for now use \setupversion


-
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Re: [NTG-context] RE : upload

[Rik Kabel]

On 11/23/2020 17:02, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 11/23/2020 9:42 PM, Joseph wrote:

After running install.bat I see error :

new attempt

The following works with the mkiv installation and with the lmtx install 
and context --luatex. It fails with an undefined control sequence error 
when run with context lmtx without the --luatex switch.


   \version[draft]
   \starttext
   Hi!
   \stoptext

--
Rik

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Re: [NTG-context] RE : upload

[Floris van Manen]

On 23/11/2020 23:02, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 11/23/2020 9:42 PM, Joseph wrote:

After running install.bat I see error :

new attempt


I still get the error:

csname overload > fatal error, protection level 4, control sequence 
'textcontrolspace', properties 'immutable', file 'enco-ini.mkxl', line 315



Also aafter the update I got two different current versions:

$ context --version
mtx-context | ConTeXt Process Management 1.04
mtx-context |
mtx-context | main context file: 
/home/vm/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/context.mkiv

mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.23 22:40
mtx-context | main context file: 
/home/vm/context/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkiv/context.mkxl

mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.19 11:28



before the update it was like so:

mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.19 11:28
mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.19 11:28
current:  2020-11-19 11:32:59.0 +0100
new:  2020-11-23 20:23:18.0 +0100
mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.23 20:20
mtx-context | current version: 2020.11.19 11:28



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Re: [NTG-context] RE : upload

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/23/2020 9:42 PM, Joseph wrote:

After running install.bat I see error :

new attempt


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  Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE
  Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
   tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl
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[NTG-context] RE : upload

[Joseph]

After running install.bat I see error : This is LuaMetaTeX, Version 2.08.03 2097153(D:/ConTeXt/lmtx/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/cont-en.mkxl(context.mkxl(syst-ini.mkxl)(norm-ctx.mkxl)(syst-pln.mkxl)(syst-mes.mkxl)(luat-cod.mkxl<+ D:/ConTeXt/lmtx/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/luat-cod.lmt>)(luat-bas.mkxl loading: ConTeXt Lua Macros / Basic Lua Libraries<- D:/ConTeXt/lmtx/tex/texmf-context/tex/context/base/mkxl/l-bit32.lua> error loading file: l-bit32.lua (aborting)resolvers   | formats | De : Hans HagenEnvoyé le :lundi 23 novembre 2020 20:24À : mailing list for ConTeXt users; Christian PrimObjet :Re: [NTG-context] upload On 11/23/2020 7:29 PM, Christian Prim wrote:> Hi > Do I miss something?looks like some old files are still present i'll fix it Hans -   Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE   Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands    tel: 038 477 53 69 | www.pragma-ade.nl | www.pragma-pod.nl-___If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-contextwebpage  : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.netarchive  : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/wiki : http://contextgarden.net___ 
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