Re: [NTG-context] \pm set too low in MkIV?
On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Sanjoy Mahajan san...@mit.edu wrote:
the + aligns on the math axis so one can argue if the type-one variant
is ok ... so we would need a smaller (less height) + then which would
look visually weird
Plain TeX doesn't align the plus/minus to the math axis. Rather, the
minus is aligned to the baseline, and the horizontal stroke of the plus
is above the baseline. I agree that it looks a bit strange with the
horizontal stroke of the plus sign not aligned with the horizontal
stroke of the plus/minus. Bt it looks even more jarring to have the
minus below the baseline, because the baseline is such a strong visual
line.
I don't think I've ever the minus below the baseline in a math book, and
it looks very wrong to my eye.
Pagella looks worse than the others, because it has a vertical gap
between the minus and the plus sign, so the depth below the baseline is
even larger.
(all can be achieved ... but the idea of lm/gyre fonts is to provide an
acceptable consistent set ... at some point we can think of variants -
or maybe the fonts have a variant already)
I realize that it's not a ConTeXt problem, but is there a ConTeXt
workaround? Or better to go to the TeX guts and compute the depth of
the box, then use \raise{}?
-Sanjoy
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
Sanjoy,
the following borrows the \pm sign from Asana (which also should be
like palatino), which looks more normal.
% Start example
\definefallbackfamily[mainface][math][Asana Math]
[range={00B1-00B1}]
\definefontfamily[mainface][serif][Tex Gyre Pagella]
\definefontfamily[mainface][math][Tex Gyre Pagella Math]
\starttext
\switchtobodyfont[pagella] Hello $\int x \pm 2 + a $\par
\switchtobodyfont[asana] Hello $\int x \pm 2 + a $\par
\switchtobodyfont[mainface] Hello $\int x \pm 2 + a $\par
\stoptext
% Stop example
I guess one could do this for the other signs one don't like in TeX
Gyre Pagella Math...
/Mikael
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
Re: [NTG-context] \pm set too low in MkIV?
On 7 mai 2014, at 10:46, Mikael P. Sundqvist mic...@gmail.com wrote:
[…]
I guess one could do this for the other signs one don't like in TeX
Gyre Pagella Math…
Hi,
This is a good trick to know, especially if one combines \pm and \mp as in the
counter-example given by Hans:
% Start example
\definefallbackfamily[mainface][math][Asana Math]
[range={00B1-00B1}]
\definefontfamily[mainface][serif][Tex Gyre Pagella]
\definefontfamily[mainface][math][Tex Gyre Pagella Math]
\starttext
\switchtobodyfont[pagella] Hello $ x \pm 2 = a \mp 2 $\par
\switchtobodyfont[asana] Hello $ x \pm 2 = a \mp 2 $\par
\switchtobodyfont[mainface] Hello $ x \pm 2 = a \mp 2 $\par
\stoptext
% Stop example
The sample with
\switchtobodyfont[asana] Hello $ x \pm 2 = a \mp 2 $\par
looks quite fine.
Best regards: OK
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
Re: [NTG-context] \pm set too low in MkIV?
On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Sanjoy Mahajan san...@mit.edu wrote: Continuing my recent theme of finding glyphs too low or too high: The \pm symbol looks like it is set too low, in MkIV. \setuppagenumbering[location=] \starttext $\pm2$ \stoptext The minus part of the sign lies below the baseline, which looks odd relative to the horizontal stroke of the 2. In MkII it is fine, as is the equivalent latex or plain tex (using LatinModern). I don't know whether the problem lis in the font metrics or in the positioning by MkIV, because I haven't yet been able to convince tex, latex, lualatex, or luatex to use the same font (LM math). In MkIV, the font is (from pdffonts): NSOXNN+LatinModernMath-Regular CID Type 0C Identity-H Can anyone confirm the problem? -Sanjoy ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ I can confirm that it is too low in latest standalone. It looks OK at http://live.contextgarden.net/, though. I can also add that \surd is way too low in latest standalone (and only a bit to low in mkiv on http://live.contextgarden.net/, and OK in mkii on http://live.contextgarden.net/). \setuppagenumbering[location=] \starttext $\pm2$ and $\surd(1+2)$. \stoptext /Mikael ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] \pm set too low in MkIV?
Thanks for the testing. I just tried it too. The live context uses MkIV 2012.05.30. It also gets a different set of fonts: VNVCGN+LMMathSymbols10-Regular Type 1Custom LFHPBE+LMRoman12-Regular CID Type 0C Identity-H I still wonder whether the placement is due to the new LM Math font. -Sanjoy Mikael P. Sundqvist mic...@gmail.com writes: I can confirm that it is too low in latest standalone. It looks OK at http://live.contextgarden.net/, though. I can also add that \surd is way too low in latest standalone (and only a bit to low in mkiv on http://live.contextgarden.net/, and OK in mkii on http://live.contextgarden.net/). \setuppagenumbering[location=] \starttext $\pm2$ and $\surd(1+2)$. \stoptext /Mikael ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] \pm set too low in MkIV?
Hi Hans, Thanks for your attention to the issue pointed out by Sanjoy. On 6 mai 2014, at 20:14, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote: […] all minus' are below the baseline so consider it a feature Yes this is the case in recent versions of mkiv, but in Plain TeX and mkii this is not the case: there the minus sign in \pm is aligned with the baseline. I agree with Sanjoy and Mikael to say that it the minus sign in \pm should be aligned with the baseline: however I don’t know if this can be easily achieved. Best regards: OK Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] \pm set too low in MkIV?
On 5/6/2014 4:22 PM, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote: Continuing my recent theme of finding glyphs too low or too high: The \pm symbol looks like it is set too low, in MkIV. \setuppagenumbering[location=] \starttext $\pm2$ \stoptext The minus part of the sign lies below the baseline, which looks odd relative to the horizontal stroke of the 2. In MkII it is fine, as is the equivalent latex or plain tex (using LatinModern). I don't know whether the problem lis in the font metrics or in the positioning by MkIV, because I haven't yet been able to convince tex, latex, lualatex, or luatex to use the same font (LM math). In MkIV, the font is (from pdffonts): NSOXNN+LatinModernMath-Regular CID Type 0C Identity-H Can anyone confirm the problem? \starttext $x \pm 2 + a $\par \switchtobodyfont[pagella] $x \pm 2 + a $\par \switchtobodyfont[termes] $x \pm 2 + a $\par \switchtobodyfont[cambria] $x \pm 2 + a $\par \switchtobodyfont[bonum] $x \pm 2 + a $\par \switchtobodyfont[schola] $x \pm 2 + a $\par \stoptext all minus' are below the baseline so consider it a feature Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] \pm set too low in MkIV?
On 5/6/2014 8:28 PM, Otared Kavian wrote: Hi Hans, Thanks for your attention to the issue pointed out by Sanjoy. On 6 mai 2014, at 20:14, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl mailto:pra...@wxs.nl wrote: […] all minus' are below the baseline so consider it a feature Yes this is the case in recent versions of mkiv, but in Plain TeX and mkii this is not the case: there the minus sign in \pm is aligned with the baseline. I agree with Sanjoy and Mikael to say that it the minus sign in \pm should be aligned with the baseline: however I don’t know if this can be easily achieved. so how about \mp then ... \starttext $x \pm 2 + \mp x + a $\par \switchtobodyfont[pagella] $x \pm 2 + \mp x + a $\par \switchtobodyfont[termes] $x \pm 2 + \mp x + a $\par \switchtobodyfont[cambria] $x \pm 2 + \mp x + a $\par \switchtobodyfont[bonum] $x \pm 2 + \mp x + a $\par \switchtobodyfont[schola] $x \pm 2 + \mp x + a $\par \stoptext the + aligns on the math axis so one can argue if the type-one variant is ok ... so we would need a smaller (less height) + then which would look visually weird (all can be achieved ... but the idea of lm/gyre fonts is to provide an acceptable consistent set ... at some point we can think of variants - or maybe the fonts have a variant already) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] \pm set too low in MkIV?
On 5/6/2014 4:56 PM, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote: Thanks for the testing. I just tried it too. The live context uses MkIV 2012.05.30. It also gets a different set of fonts: VNVCGN+LMMathSymbols10-Regular Type 1Custom LFHPBE+LMRoman12-Regular CID Type 0C Identity-H that's then the virtual lm unicode math (which you can still use in the latest mkiv if needed) I still wonder whether the placement is due to the new LM Math font. yes -Sanjoy Mikael P. Sundqvist mic...@gmail.com writes: I can confirm that it is too low in latest standalone. It looks OK at http://live.contextgarden.net/, though. I can also add that \surd is way too low in latest standalone (and only a bit to low in mkiv on http://live.contextgarden.net/, and OK in mkii on http://live.contextgarden.net/). \setuppagenumbering[location=] \starttext $\pm2$ and $\surd(1+2)$. \stoptext /Mikael ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ -- - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] \pm set too low in MkIV?
the + aligns on the math axis so one can argue if the type-one variant
is ok ... so we would need a smaller (less height) + then which would
look visually weird
Plain TeX doesn't align the plus/minus to the math axis. Rather, the
minus is aligned to the baseline, and the horizontal stroke of the plus
is above the baseline. I agree that it looks a bit strange with the
horizontal stroke of the plus sign not aligned with the horizontal
stroke of the plus/minus. Bt it looks even more jarring to have the
minus below the baseline, because the baseline is such a strong visual
line.
I don't think I've ever the minus below the baseline in a math book, and
it looks very wrong to my eye.
Pagella looks worse than the others, because it has a vertical gap
between the minus and the plus sign, so the depth below the baseline is
even larger.
(all can be achieved ... but the idea of lm/gyre fonts is to provide an
acceptable consistent set ... at some point we can think of variants -
or maybe the fonts have a variant already)
I realize that it's not a ConTeXt problem, but is there a ConTeXt
workaround? Or better to go to the TeX guts and compute the depth of
the box, then use \raise{}?
-Sanjoy
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net
archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
