Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Duncan Hothersall wrote: I agree the above works, but when I use Arabic fonts and content it doesn't seem to. still puzzling things like this (imo) conform that the ability to typeset in multiple directions not means that one claim to have a multilingual tex the problem is that there's always a mixture between this auto r/l stuff and explicit r/l stuff and one never knows (also depends on the otp's it seems) what happens: now we can have situations that the input parser reverse things that are already reversed and one never knows why/where (since those opt's have kind of unpredictable side effects (apart from bugs - i just ran out of mem again) figure [num1] . [num2] . [num3] should come out as [num3] . [num2] . [num1] erugif depending on when an otp decides that it should stop we get something else In any case, the num snippets needs to be otp'd in order to get proper arab, at the same time there's this *dir stuff, ... (omega was never made for such things, only simple docs with straightforward input, not too much macro package stuff involved) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Duncan Hothersall wrote:
Idris wrote:
I doubt it, but something along these lines should do it:
==
% tex=aleph output=dvipdfmx
\pagedir TRT
\bodydir TRT
\pardir TRT
\textdir TRT
\hoffset=0pt % bug
\starttext
\chapter{Cow}
\section{Dutch Cow}
\placefigure
[middle]
[fig:cow]
{This is an example of a cow.}
{\externalfigure[cow][width=1.5in]}
\section{Another Dutch Cow}
\placefigure
[middle]
[fig:cow]
{This is an example of a cow.}
{\externalfigure[cow][width=1.5in]}
\stoptext
==
Hmm, seems to work here; maybe Duncan did not use \bodydir TRT?
I tend to think that we should start with
\def\ArabicUTF
{\ArabicDirGlobal
\usefiltersequence[UTFArabic]%
%\reversesectionnumberstrue
\switchtobodyfont[omarb]%
\ArabicDirGlobal}
\ArabicUTF
\setuplabeltext[figure=استخلاØ~]
so, no reversing; the question is, why isn't this piece reflected in arab while
ok in reflected english
Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Hi,
Hans Hagen wrote:
figure [num1] . [num2] . [num3]
should come out as
[num3] . [num2] . [num1] erugif
We discovered that the arabic contextual analyzation OTP assumes
that any sequence of [0-9.+-]+ is a single number and should be
typeset in TLT mode.
For figure numbers and version numbers etcetera this assumption
is wrong (they are multiple numbers concatenated together).
A trick (?) is to change the separator such that the number
parsing in the otp see separate numbers as well:
\setupcaptions[separator={{.}}]
Cheers, Taco
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Taco Hoekwater wrote:
Hi,
Hans Hagen wrote:
figure [num1] . [num2] . [num3]
should come out as
[num3] . [num2] . [num1] erugif
We discovered that the arabic contextual analyzation OTP assumes
that any sequence of [0-9.+-]+ is a single number and should be
typeset in TLT mode.
just curious: does this make sense? why is this?
For figure numbers and version numbers etcetera this assumption
is wrong (they are multiple numbers concatenated together).
A trick (?) is to change the separator such that the number
parsing in the otp see separate numbers as well:
\setupcaptions[separator={{.}}]
or a bit more extensive:
\def\ArabicUTF
{\ArabicDirGlobal
\usefiltersequence[UTFArabic]%
% not needed: \reversesectionnumberstrue
\switchtobodyfont[omarb]}
\setupheads [separator={{.}}]
\setupcaptions[separator={{.}}]
this still gives problems with refering to a graphic but for that we need more
hackery
Hans
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
A trick (?) is to change the separator such that the number
parsing in the otp see separate numbers as well:
\setupcaptions[separator={{.}}]
\setupheads [separator={{.}}]
\setupcaptions[separator={{.}}]
this still gives problems with refering to a graphic but for that we need
more hackery
Agreed, but this is a great step forward and explains the behaviour. It
it true that in Arabic the digits making up a number should read from
ltr while separated numbers forming a section or float reference should
read rtl overall.
So we are nearly there, just the cross-references to be dealt with,
thank you all very much for this.
Duncan
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
\setupheads [separator={{.}}]
\setupcaptions[separator={{.}}]
this still gives problems with refering to a graphic but for that we
need more hackery
Also, probably because it uses the same cross-referencing mechanism,
this leaves the section numbers in tables of contents the other way
around. So to match the setupheads, we need also:
\setuplist[section,subsection,...][separator={{.}}]
Unfortunately
\setupreferencing[separator={{.}}]
seems to just put an extra . before the figure number, but not reverse
it, resulting in:
'1.2- erugiF'
Duncan
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Hmm, I did not get the parent(s) to this email; was it off-list?
Idris
On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:10:57 -0600, Duncan Hothersall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A trick (?) is to change the separator such that the number
parsing in the otp see separate numbers as well:
\setupcaptions[separator={{.}}]
\setupheads [separator={{.}}]
\setupcaptions[separator={{.}}]
this still gives problems with refering to a graphic but for that we
need more hackery
Agreed, but this is a great step forward and explains the behaviour. It
it true that in Arabic the digits making up a number should read from
ltr while separated numbers forming a section or float reference should
read rtl overall.
So we are nearly there, just the cross-references to be dealt with,
thank you all very much for this.
--
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Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: Hmm, I did not get the parent(s) to this email; was it off-list? yes, taco and i skyped a bit -) anyhow, it looks like we need some low level support for this kind of things; playing with that now (not much time today) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Idris wrote:
I doubt it, but something along these lines should do it:
==
% tex=aleph output=dvipdfmx
\pagedir TRT
\bodydir TRT
\pardir TRT
\textdir TRT
\hoffset=0pt % bug
\starttext
\chapter{Cow}
\section{Dutch Cow}
\placefigure
[middle]
[fig:cow]
{This is an example of a cow.}
{\externalfigure[cow][width=1.5in]}
\section{Another Dutch Cow}
\placefigure
[middle]
[fig:cow]
{This is an example of a cow.}
{\externalfigure[cow][width=1.5in]}
\stoptext
==
Hmm, seems to work here; maybe Duncan did not use \bodydir TRT?
I agree the above works, but when I use Arabic fonts and content it
doesn't seem to.
I have new tex and pdf files at:
http://www.capdm.com/public/context/figtest.tex
and
http://www.capdm.com/public/context/figtest.pdf
Hans: How do we configure the .=- separator?
This I have worked out!
\setupcaption[figure][separator=-]
Doh. Thanks,
Duncan
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Duncan Hothersall wrote: I agree the above works, but when I use Arabic fonts and content it doesn't seem to. I have new tex and pdf files at: http://www.capdm.com/public/context/figtest.tex and http://www.capdm.com/public/context/figtest.pdf hm, some weird interaction between opt's and directions and context reversing numbers ... i must look into it what we need is a test doc with all relevant typo concepts that needs special treatment (either or not reversion) so that we can deal with all of them Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Idris Samawi Hamid (15/06/2006 17:28) said:
You could edit the cuni2oar otp (and recompile it) so that it
ignores the ligatures you don't like, or you could put a kashidah
between the two letters whose ligature you want to break. Better is to
define an empty kashidah so that you can manually break the ligature
without stretching the word. I'll look into this in the next few days
(busy right now) if you remind me-)
Thanks very much for this, but unfortunately as an Arabic typesetting
novice I can't quite follow it (the comments on the ligatures came from
a proofreader). Am following this up via another route to try to better
understand what to do, but if you really did want a reminder about this
- here it is :-)
...
Add \reversesectionnumberstrue to your Arabic definition:
Ah, great, perfect.
Now I have a follow-up to that one: I also would like figure and table
numbering to have the chapternumber in the right order and use - as a
separator. In other words, in English I use
\in{Figure}[figref0102]
to generate
Figure 1.2
and in Arabic I'd like to use
\in{رسم بياني }[figref0102]
to generate
رسم بياني 1-2
Any advice for that? (I had a search for other \reverse type commands
but no luck :-(
Many thanks again.
Duncan
PS. Apologies if the UTF-8 content there doesn't show up correctly.
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 09:37:50 -0600, Duncan Hothersall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Idris Samawi Hamid (15/06/2006 17:28) said:
You could edit the cuni2oar otp (and recompile it) so that it
ignores the ligatures you don't like, or you could put a kashidah
between the two letters whose ligature you want to break. Better is to
define an empty kashidah so that you can manually break the ligature
without stretching the word. I'll look into this in the next few days
(busy right now) if you remind me-)
Thanks very much for this, but unfortunately as an Arabic typesetting
novice I can't quite follow it (the comments on the ligatures came from
a proofreader).
Am following this up via another route to try to better
understand what to do, but if you really did want a reminder about this
- here it is :-)
Well, I don't know which ligatures the proofreader liked/did not like so...
Add \reversesectionnumberstrue to your Arabic definition:
Ah, great, perfect.
Now I have a follow-up to that one: I also would like figure and table
numbering to have the chapternumber in the right order and use - as a
separator. In other words, in English I use
\in{Figure}[figref0102]
to generate
Figure 1.2
and in Arabic I'd like to use
\in{رسم بياني }[figref0102]
to generate
رسم بياني 1-2
Any advice for that? (I had a search for other \reverse type commands
but no luck :-(
Hans, can you do a \reverse macro for this?
Best
Idris
--
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Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Am following this up via another route to try to better understand what to do, but if you really did want a reminder about this - here it is :-) Well, I don't know which ligatures the proofreader liked/did not like so... Sorry, I realise that was a bit stupid of me... Thanks for your patience. :-) Duncan ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
and in Arabic I'd like to use
\in{رسم بياني }[figref0102]
to generate
رسم بياني 1-2
Any advice for that? (I had a search for other \reverse type commands
but no luck :-(
Hans, can you do a \reverse macro for this?
what do you mean with \reverse
bla bla left to right bla bla \in {something arab right left} bla bla
i assume that arab always should be reverse so one should either explicitly
enable arab or is there something wrong with the \in macro
-
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tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com
| www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:11:06 -0600, Duncan Hothersall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I don't know which ligatures the proofreader liked/did not like so... Sorry, I realise that was a bit stupid of me... Thanks for your patience. :-) I suspect it may be that the lam-yaa ligature appears to collide with the preceding yaa. My suggestion: instead of getting rid of the ligature do a global replace of يلي by يـلي and the like (placing the kashidah before the ligature). I could tell the otp to do this as well but that would take some testing etc. and I'm just swamped at the moment. Let me know what you would prefer and I'll get to it as soon as I can :-) Best Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:35:14 -0600, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
\in{رسم بياني }[figref0102]
to generate
رسم بياني 1-2
Any advice for that? (I had a search for other \reverse type commands
but no luck :-(
Hans, can you do a \reverse macro for this?
what do you mean with \reverse
bla bla left to right bla bla \in {something arab right left} bla bla
i assume that arab always should be reverse so one should either
explicitly enable arab or is there something wrong with the \in macro
In Latin we write
Figure 1.2
in Arabic we want the equivalent of
2.1 erugiF
but Duncan seems to be getting
1.2 erugiF
even with global Arabic settings.
In addition Duncan would like to use a dash instead of a period:
2-1 erugiF
Best
Idris
--
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Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Idris Samawi Hamid wrote:
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:35:14 -0600, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
\in{رسم بياني }[figref0102]
to generate
رسم بياني 1-2
Any advice for that? (I had a search for other \reverse type commands
but no luck :-(
Hans, can you do a \reverse macro for this?
what do you mean with \reverse
bla bla left to right bla bla \in {something arab right left} bla bla
i assume that arab always should be reverse so one should either
explicitly enable arab or is there something wrong with the \in macro
In Latin we write
Figure 1.2
in Arabic we want the equivalent of
2.1 erugiF
but Duncan seems to be getting
1.2 erugiF
even with global Arabic settings.
so it's only the number that's wrong?
In addition Duncan would like to use a dash instead of a period:
2-1 erugiF
that's configurable
Hans
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| www.pragma-pod.nl
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:05:43 -0600, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: In Latin we write Figure 1.2 in Arabic we want the equivalent of 2.1 erugiF but Duncan seems to be getting 1.2 erugiF even with global Arabic settings. so it's only the number that's wrong? That's right (though I have not tested it myself, relying on Duncan's description) In addition Duncan would like to use a dash instead of a period: 2-1 erugiF that's configurable I figured as much ;-) Best Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 11:05:43 -0600, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Idris Samawi Hamid wrote: In Latin we write Figure 1.2 in Arabic we want the equivalent of 2.1 erugiF but Duncan seems to be getting 1.2 erugiF even with global Arabic settings. so it's only the number that's wrong? That's right (though I have not tested it myself, relying on Duncan's description) hm, so now i need to install arab fonts, otps, etc in my current tree -) i wonder how hard dit is to check it using reversed english (easier for me) .. does Duncan has such a sample? Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 21:16:40 +0200, Hans Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
so it's only the number that's wrong?
That's right (though I have not tested it myself, relying on Duncan's
description)
hm, so now i need to install arab fonts, otps, etc in my current tree -)
Well, it's not that involved ;-)
http://wiki.contextgarden.net/Aleph_Guide#Installing
i wonder how hard dit is to check it using reversed english (easier for
me) .. does Duncan has such a sample?
I doubt it, but something along these lines should do it:
==
% tex=aleph output=dvipdfmx
\pagedir TRT
\bodydir TRT
\pardir TRT
\textdir TRT
\hoffset=0pt % bug
\starttext
\chapter{Cow}
\section{Dutch Cow}
\placefigure
[middle]
[fig:cow]
{This is an example of a cow.}
{\externalfigure[cow][width=1.5in]}
\section{Another Dutch Cow}
\placefigure
[middle]
[fig:cow]
{This is an example of a cow.}
{\externalfigure[cow][width=1.5in]}
\stoptext
==
Hmm, seems to work here; maybe Duncan did not use \bodydir TRT?
Hans: How do we configure the .=- separator?
Best
Idris
--
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Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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Re: [NTG-context] Aleph queries
Hi Duncan,
On Thu, 15 Jun 2006 02:30:15 -0600, Duncan Hothersall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Using the fantastic resources from Idris' messages on this list, and the
Aleph page on the Wiki, I have managed to start producing Arabic PDF
output directly from UTF-8 sources using Aleph and dvipdfmx. This is
great, thanks so much.
Glad you liked it:-)
I have just one or two queries and things I wasn't able to make work. I
hope someone can help.
My test file is here:
http://www.capdm.com/public/context/omarab-queries1.tex
And the output it generates is here:
http://www.capdm.com/public/context/omarab-queries1.pdf
First question - how do I get italic text? The first three paragraphs in
the test are identical content, but the second has {\it ...} around it
and the third has {\bf ...} around it. The third para comes out
perfectly in bold, but the second para looks the same as the first. How
can I get italics?
There is no italic font, only regular and bold, so \it just maps to the
default regular font.
Second question - that same first para contains 5 ligatures. They don't
seem to match the rest of the font. Is this a set-up issue, or is it the
way the font is designed? If it is a set-up issue, is there a way to fix
it?
Both :-) You could edit the cuni2oar otp (and recompile it) so that it
ignores the ligatures you don't like, or you could put a kashidah between
the two letters whose ligature you want to break. Better is to define an
empty kashidah so that you can manually break the ligature without
stretching the word. I'll look into this in the next few days (busy right
now) if you remind me-)
Third and final question - I inserted a section and two subsections to
demonstrate that the numbering of subsections is left-to-right. How can
I make it right-to-left? (Explanation: the PDF shows section 1, and
then subsections 1-1 and 1-2; reading the numbers from
right-to-left, I need it to show as section 1 and then subsections
1-1 and 2-1. In the subsection the 1 should come first when
reading rtl.)
Add \reversesectionnumberstrue to your Arabic definition:
\def\ArabicUTF{\ArabicDirGlobal\usefiltersequence[UTFArabic]
\reversesectionnumberstrue\switchtobodyfont[omarb]}
Ideally when one selects global RL this should happen automatically. This
is being planned for the future :-)
Best
Idris
--
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Department of Philosophy
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
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