Re: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and variable scope more generally)
I think \doifmodeelse{*footnote} is what we need here.
Von: Joey McCollum
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. September 2021 18:45:53
An: Maier, Denis Christian (UB)
Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and
variable scope more generally)
Ah, I see. My implementation will mess up in that case. We may need methods
that keep track of whether a citation is made in a footnote or not. I'm not
sure how to implement that. Certainly, if we knew that all footnote citations
were being made with the alternative=footnote option, then that probably make
things easier, but in the case of a verbose footnote that only features a
citation at the end, it would likely be more convenient for a user to use the
inline alternative in the footnote, as you do in your example.
Thanks for catching that!
Joey
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 11:55 AM
mailto:denis.ma...@unibe.ch>> wrote:
To be clear, I wasn’t talking about list vs notes. Consider just this :
\cite[alternative=inline][doe]
\footnote{\cite[alternative=inline][foo]}
\cite[alternative=inline][doe]
The citation in the footnote should not interupt the ibid-tracking in this
case. The second doe-citation should trigger the ibid-mechanism. But:
\cite[alternative=inline][doe]
\footnote{\cite[alternative=inline][foo]}
\cite[alternative=inline][foo]
In this case, you wouldn’t want an ibid. for the foo-citation outside of the
footnote.
Denis
Von: Joey McCollum
mailto:jmccollum20140...@gmail.com>>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. September 2021 17:16
An: Maier, Denis Christian (UB)
mailto:denis.ma...@unibe.ch>>
Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>>
Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and
variable scope more generally)
Yes, I haven't added any code to check for the useibid or useidem options in
list citations; they are only used for in-text citations in the SBL
specification definition. The distinction between \setupbtx[sbl:\s!list] and
\setupbtx[sbl:\s!cite] should allow us to specify their options separately. For
list citations, we probably should add a "sameauthor" option, with "rule" (draw
a horizontal rule for repeated authors), "empty" (leave a blank space the size
of the "margin" option), and "ditto" (e.g., a dumb quote sign, or "Idem") as
potential values, since all three of these options are currently supported in
publ-imp-chicago.mkvi and publ-imp-sbl.mkvi, but as far as I know, they always
default to the "rule" setup.
Joey
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 12:52 AM
mailto:denis.ma...@unibe.ch>> wrote:
Cool.
I don't know about your particular solution, but will probably want to make
sure to have different variables for citations in the main text and in the
notes.
Denis
Von: ntg-context
mailto:ntg-context-boun...@ntg.nl>> im Auftrag von
Joey McCollum via ntg-context mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. September 2021 02:22:49
An: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Cc: Joey McCollum
Betreff: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and variable
scope more generally)
Hi,
I've found a way to implement ibid. and idem support in the SBL specification
under development at https://github.com/jjmccollum/context-sbl (this e-mail
essentially repeats my comments in
https://github.com/jjmccollum/context-sbl/issues/5), but I'm not sure if my
solution is a recommended way to solve the problem, and I'm curious about why
the more straightforward approach doesn't work.
I've added useibid and useidem options for the \definebtx command (making them
language-dependent by adding them to mult-def.lua, which seems to be how the
other options have been implemented). Ideally, I'd like to follow the pattern
of the chicago:list:sameauthor setup and use a macro similar to
\btxdoifsameaspreviouselse. But since \btxdoifsameaspreviouselse relies on the
indexed structure of the bibliographic list to determine what the "previous"
entry is, it won't work for my purposes; I need to retrieve the tag of the last
entry passed to the \cite command.
I ended up making this work by initializing a global variable via
```
\setxvariables[btx:sbl][previousinlinetag=\empty]
```
in the publ-imp-sbl.mkvi file, resetting it at the end of each citation via
```
\setxvariables[btx:sbl][previousinlinetag=\currentbtxtag]
```
and checking it in the appropriate places via
```
getvariable{btx:sbl}{previousinlinetag}
```
I initially tried to do this with a simple macro \btx_sbl_previousinlinetag
defined in publ-imp-sbl.mkvi (in the same scope as the rest of the
specification), but attempting to reset it in the cite setups with \let or \def
didn't work. Why doesn't this work? Is the setup for a cite alternative
executed in its own scope in a way that would prevent me from updating a
variable defined in the scope of the rendering specification? And is there a
way to
Re: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and variable scope more generally)
Ah, I see. My implementation will mess up in that case. We may need methods
that keep track of whether a citation is made in a footnote or not. I'm not
sure how to implement that. Certainly, if we knew that all footnote
citations were being made with the alternative=footnote option, then that
probably make things easier, but in the case of a verbose footnote that
only features a citation at the end, it would likely be more convenient for
a user to use the inline alternative in the footnote, as you do in your
example.
Thanks for catching that!
Joey
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 11:55 AM wrote:
> To be clear, I wasn’t talking about list vs notes. Consider just this :
>
>
>
> \cite[alternative=inline][doe]
>
> \footnote{\cite[alternative=inline][foo]}
>
> \cite[alternative=inline][doe]
>
>
>
> The citation in the footnote should not interupt the ibid-tracking in this
> case. The second doe-citation should trigger the ibid-mechanism. But:
>
>
>
> \cite[alternative=inline][doe]
>
> \footnote{\cite[alternative=inline][foo]}
>
> \cite[alternative=inline][foo]
>
>
>
> In this case, you wouldn’t want an ibid. for the foo-citation outside of
> the footnote.
>
>
>
> Denis
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von:* Joey McCollum
> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 21. September 2021 17:16
> *An:* Maier, Denis Christian (UB)
> *Cc:* mailing list for ConTeXt users
> *Betreff:* Re: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies
> (and variable scope more generally)
>
>
>
> Yes, I haven't added any code to check for the useibid or useidem options
> in list citations; they are only used for in-text citations in the SBL
> specification definition. The distinction between \setupbtx[sbl:\s!list]
> and \setupbtx[sbl:\s!cite] should allow us to specify their options
> separately. For list citations, we probably should add a "sameauthor"
> option, with "rule" (draw a horizontal rule for repeated authors), "empty"
> (leave a blank space the size of the "margin" option), and "ditto" (e.g., a
> dumb quote sign, or "Idem") as potential values, since all three of these
> options are currently supported in publ-imp-chicago.mkvi and
> publ-imp-sbl.mkvi, but as far as I know, they always default to the "rule"
> setup.
>
>
>
> Joey
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 12:52 AM wrote:
>
> Cool.
>
> I don't know about your particular solution, but will probably want to
> make sure to have different variables for citations in the main text and in
> the notes.
>
> Denis
>
>
>
>
> Von: ntg-context im Auftrag von Joey
> McCollum via ntg-context
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. September 2021 02:22:49
> An: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> Cc: Joey McCollum
> Betreff: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and
> variable scope more generally)
>
> Hi,
>
> I've found a way to implement ibid. and idem support in the SBL
> specification under development at
> https://github.com/jjmccollum/context-sbl (this e-mail essentially
> repeats my comments in https://github.com/jjmccollum/context-sbl/issues/5),
> but I'm not sure if my solution is a recommended way to solve the problem,
> and I'm curious about why the more straightforward approach doesn't work.
>
> I've added useibid and useidem options for the \definebtx command (making
> them language-dependent by adding them to mult-def.lua, which seems to be
> how the other options have been implemented). Ideally, I'd like to follow
> the pattern of the chicago:list:sameauthor setup and use a macro similar to
> \btxdoifsameaspreviouselse. But since \btxdoifsameaspreviouselse relies on
> the indexed structure of the bibliographic list to determine what the
> "previous" entry is, it won't work for my purposes; I need to retrieve the
> tag of the last entry passed to the \cite command.
>
> I ended up making this work by initializing a global variable via
>
> ```
> \setxvariables[btx:sbl][previousinlinetag=\empty]
> ```
>
> in the publ-imp-sbl.mkvi file, resetting it at the end of each citation via
>
> ```
> \setxvariables[btx:sbl][previousinlinetag=\currentbtxtag]
> ```
>
> and checking it in the appropriate places via
>
> ```
> getvariable{btx:sbl}{previousinlinetag}
> ```
>
> I initially tried to do this with a simple macro
> \btx_sbl_previousinlinetag defined in publ-imp-sbl.mkvi (in the same scope
> as the rest of the specification), but attempting to reset it in the cite
> setups with \let or \def didn't work. Why doesn't this work? Is the setup
> for a cite alternative executed in its own scope in a way that would
> prevent me from updating a variable defined in the scope of the rendering
> specification? And is there a way to do this that is preferable to using
> global variables?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joey
>
>
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
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webpage :
Re: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and variable scope more generally)
To be clear, I wasn’t talking about list vs notes. Consider just this :
\cite[alternative=inline][doe]
\footnote{\cite[alternative=inline][foo]}
\cite[alternative=inline][doe]
The citation in the footnote should not interupt the ibid-tracking in this
case. The second doe-citation should trigger the ibid-mechanism. But:
\cite[alternative=inline][doe]
\footnote{\cite[alternative=inline][foo]}
\cite[alternative=inline][foo]
In this case, you wouldn’t want an ibid. for the foo-citation outside of the
footnote.
Denis
Von: Joey McCollum
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. September 2021 17:16
An: Maier, Denis Christian (UB)
Cc: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Betreff: Re: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and
variable scope more generally)
Yes, I haven't added any code to check for the useibid or useidem options in
list citations; they are only used for in-text citations in the SBL
specification definition. The distinction between \setupbtx[sbl:\s!list] and
\setupbtx[sbl:\s!cite] should allow us to specify their options separately. For
list citations, we probably should add a "sameauthor" option, with "rule" (draw
a horizontal rule for repeated authors), "empty" (leave a blank space the size
of the "margin" option), and "ditto" (e.g., a dumb quote sign, or "Idem") as
potential values, since all three of these options are currently supported in
publ-imp-chicago.mkvi and publ-imp-sbl.mkvi, but as far as I know, they always
default to the "rule" setup.
Joey
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 12:52 AM
mailto:denis.ma...@unibe.ch>> wrote:
Cool.
I don't know about your particular solution, but will probably want to make
sure to have different variables for citations in the main text and in the
notes.
Denis
Von: ntg-context
mailto:ntg-context-boun...@ntg.nl>> im Auftrag von
Joey McCollum via ntg-context mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. September 2021 02:22:49
An: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Cc: Joey McCollum
Betreff: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and variable
scope more generally)
Hi,
I've found a way to implement ibid. and idem support in the SBL specification
under development at https://github.com/jjmccollum/context-sbl (this e-mail
essentially repeats my comments in
https://github.com/jjmccollum/context-sbl/issues/5), but I'm not sure if my
solution is a recommended way to solve the problem, and I'm curious about why
the more straightforward approach doesn't work.
I've added useibid and useidem options for the \definebtx command (making them
language-dependent by adding them to mult-def.lua, which seems to be how the
other options have been implemented). Ideally, I'd like to follow the pattern
of the chicago:list:sameauthor setup and use a macro similar to
\btxdoifsameaspreviouselse. But since \btxdoifsameaspreviouselse relies on the
indexed structure of the bibliographic list to determine what the "previous"
entry is, it won't work for my purposes; I need to retrieve the tag of the last
entry passed to the \cite command.
I ended up making this work by initializing a global variable via
```
\setxvariables[btx:sbl][previousinlinetag=\empty]
```
in the publ-imp-sbl.mkvi file, resetting it at the end of each citation via
```
\setxvariables[btx:sbl][previousinlinetag=\currentbtxtag]
```
and checking it in the appropriate places via
```
getvariable{btx:sbl}{previousinlinetag}
```
I initially tried to do this with a simple macro \btx_sbl_previousinlinetag
defined in publ-imp-sbl.mkvi (in the same scope as the rest of the
specification), but attempting to reset it in the cite setups with \let or \def
didn't work. Why doesn't this work? Is the setup for a cite alternative
executed in its own scope in a way that would prevent me from updating a
variable defined in the scope of the rendering specification? And is there a
way to do this that is preferable to using global variables?
Thanks!
Joey
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
Re: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and variable scope more generally)
Yes, I haven't added any code to check for the useibid or useidem options
in list citations; they are only used for in-text citations in the SBL
specification definition. The distinction between \setupbtx[sbl:\s!list]
and \setupbtx[sbl:\s!cite] should allow us to specify their options
separately. For list citations, we probably should add a "sameauthor"
option, with "rule" (draw a horizontal rule for repeated authors), "empty"
(leave a blank space the size of the "margin" option), and "ditto" (e.g., a
dumb quote sign, or "Idem") as potential values, since all three of these
options are currently supported in publ-imp-chicago.mkvi and
publ-imp-sbl.mkvi, but as far as I know, they always default to the "rule"
setup.
Joey
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 12:52 AM wrote:
> Cool.
>
> I don't know about your particular solution, but will probably want to
> make sure to have different variables for citations in the main text and in
> the notes.
>
> Denis
>
>
>
>
> Von: ntg-context im Auftrag von Joey
> McCollum via ntg-context
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. September 2021 02:22:49
> An: mailing list for ConTeXt users
> Cc: Joey McCollum
> Betreff: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and
> variable scope more generally)
>
> Hi,
>
> I've found a way to implement ibid. and idem support in the SBL
> specification under development at
> https://github.com/jjmccollum/context-sbl (this e-mail essentially
> repeats my comments in https://github.com/jjmccollum/context-sbl/issues/5),
> but I'm not sure if my solution is a recommended way to solve the problem,
> and I'm curious about why the more straightforward approach doesn't work.
>
> I've added useibid and useidem options for the \definebtx command (making
> them language-dependent by adding them to mult-def.lua, which seems to be
> how the other options have been implemented). Ideally, I'd like to follow
> the pattern of the chicago:list:sameauthor setup and use a macro similar to
> \btxdoifsameaspreviouselse. But since \btxdoifsameaspreviouselse relies on
> the indexed structure of the bibliographic list to determine what the
> "previous" entry is, it won't work for my purposes; I need to retrieve the
> tag of the last entry passed to the \cite command.
>
> I ended up making this work by initializing a global variable via
>
> ```
> \setxvariables[btx:sbl][previousinlinetag=\empty]
> ```
>
> in the publ-imp-sbl.mkvi file, resetting it at the end of each citation via
>
> ```
> \setxvariables[btx:sbl][previousinlinetag=\currentbtxtag]
> ```
>
> and checking it in the appropriate places via
>
> ```
> getvariable{btx:sbl}{previousinlinetag}
> ```
>
> I initially tried to do this with a simple macro
> \btx_sbl_previousinlinetag defined in publ-imp-sbl.mkvi (in the same scope
> as the rest of the specification), but attempting to reset it in the cite
> setups with \let or \def didn't work. Why doesn't this work? Is the setup
> for a cite alternative executed in its own scope in a way that would
> prevent me from updating a variable defined in the scope of the rendering
> specification? And is there a way to do this that is preferable to using
> global variables?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joey
>
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
Re: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and variable scope more generally)
Cool.
I don't know about your particular solution, but will probably want to make
sure to have different variables for citations in the main text and in the
notes.
Denis
Von: ntg-context im Auftrag von Joey McCollum via
ntg-context
Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. September 2021 02:22:49
An: mailing list for ConTeXt users
Cc: Joey McCollum
Betreff: [NTG-context] Ibid. and idem support for bibliographies (and variable
scope more generally)
Hi,
I've found a way to implement ibid. and idem support in the SBL specification
under development at https://github.com/jjmccollum/context-sbl (this e-mail
essentially repeats my comments in
https://github.com/jjmccollum/context-sbl/issues/5), but I'm not sure if my
solution is a recommended way to solve the problem, and I'm curious about why
the more straightforward approach doesn't work.
I've added useibid and useidem options for the \definebtx command (making them
language-dependent by adding them to mult-def.lua, which seems to be how the
other options have been implemented). Ideally, I'd like to follow the pattern
of the chicago:list:sameauthor setup and use a macro similar to
\btxdoifsameaspreviouselse. But since \btxdoifsameaspreviouselse relies on the
indexed structure of the bibliographic list to determine what the "previous"
entry is, it won't work for my purposes; I need to retrieve the tag of the last
entry passed to the \cite command.
I ended up making this work by initializing a global variable via
```
\setxvariables[btx:sbl][previousinlinetag=\empty]
```
in the publ-imp-sbl.mkvi file, resetting it at the end of each citation via
```
\setxvariables[btx:sbl][previousinlinetag=\currentbtxtag]
```
and checking it in the appropriate places via
```
getvariable{btx:sbl}{previousinlinetag}
```
I initially tried to do this with a simple macro \btx_sbl_previousinlinetag
defined in publ-imp-sbl.mkvi (in the same scope as the rest of the
specification), but attempting to reset it in the cite setups with \let or \def
didn't work. Why doesn't this work? Is the setup for a cite alternative
executed in its own scope in a way that would prevent me from updating a
variable defined in the scope of the rendering specification? And is there a
way to do this that is preferable to using global variables?
Thanks!
Joey
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : http://contextgarden.net
___
