Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
Hans van der Meer wrote: > On Dec 24, 2006, at 0:21, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote: > > >> ConText is developed rapidly, ... and illustrates the free- >> software philosophy of "release >> often", sometimes twice a day! (<< my emphasis here, hvdm) >> > > I wouldn't stress that fact in this manner. And at the least advice > to rephrase this. From the formulation used here, people could get > the impression that ConTeXt is an extremely instable product and for > that reason refrain from using it. That would be a pity. > the reason for updating current instead of beta has a few reasons (1) it's easier for me to update servers using ctxtools --update and (2) we near the tex live code freeze, after that we will probably go beta again, which (3) will also update frequently because taco and i are actively working on luatex (mkiv) code which demands mkii/mkiv code splitting Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
> From the formulation used here, people could get the impression that > ConTeXt is an extremely instable product and for that reason refrain > from using it. Good point. How about simply: ConText is developed rapidly, often in response to requests from the friendly user community. -Sanjoy `Not all those who wander are lost.' (J.R.R. Tolkien) ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
On 2006 Dec 24, at 4:40 AM, Hans van der Meer indited: > On Dec 24, 2006, at 0:21, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote: >> ConText is developed rapidly, ... and illustrates the free- >> software philosophy of "release >> often", sometimes twice a day! (<< my emphasis here, hvdm) > I wouldn't stress that fact in this manner. And at the least advice > to rephrase this. From the formulation used here, people could get > the impression that ConTeXt is an extremely instable product and for > that reason refrain from using it. That would be a pity. That was definitely the impression I had... I've just recently joined this list as part of a low-key "I wonder if I'd be happier using ConTeXt rather than fighting LaTeX" evaluation. That Gerben Wierda's i-Installer automatically processes ConTeXt updates doesn't hurt either. :-) Thanks for the clarification! --D'gou ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
On Dec 24, 2006, at 0:21, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote: > ConText is developed rapidly, ... and illustrates the free- > software philosophy of "release > often", sometimes twice a day! (<< my emphasis here, hvdm) I wouldn't stress that fact in this manner. And at the least advice to rephrase this. From the formulation used here, people could get the impression that ConTeXt is an extremely instable product and for that reason refrain from using it. That would be a pity. Hans van der Meer ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
Idris (and all), Thanks, that's a very helpful contrast between LaTeX and ConTeXt. So how about: == ConTeXt is a document-production system based, like LaTeX, on the TeX typesetting system. Whereas LaTeX insulates the writer from typographical details, ConTeXt takes a complementary approach by providing structured interfaces for handling typography, including extensive support for colors, backgrounds, hyperlinks, presentations, figure-text integration, and conditional compilation. It gives the user extensive control over formatting while making it easy to create new layouts and styles without learning the TeX macro language. ConTeXt's unified design averts the package clashes that can happen with LaTeX. ConTeXt also integrates MetaFun, a superset of MetaPost and a powerful system for vector graphics. MetaFun can be used as a stand-alone system to produce figures, but its strength lies in enhancing ConTeXt documents with accurate graphic elements. ConTeXt allows the users to use formatting commands in English, Dutch, German, French, or Italian, and to use different typesetting engines (PDFTeX, XeTeX, Aleph, and soon LuaTeX) without changing the user interface. ConText is developed rapidly, has a friendly user community, and illustrates the free-software philosophy of "release often", sometimes twice a day! == -Sanjoy `Not all who wander are lost.' (J.R.R. Tolkien) ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
Hi Sanjoy and all, On Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:31:23 -0700, Sanjoy Mahajan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> It was designed with the same general-purpose aims as LaTeX, > system. It was designed with the same aims as LaTeX but, This point is often mentioned in different ways, but it is quite vague, and on the surface it is also untrue. LaTeX was designed to save the writer from typography (Lamport is quite insistent about this), ConTeXt is designed to make typography easier: quite different general-purpose aims. LaTeX's emphasis was primarily articles and reports (memoir etc. notwithstanding), ConTeXt's is more general. Both are designed to make the TeX language more useful but above that their aims are different it appears to me. The different philosophies of the author-typography relationship lie at the heart of the difference between ConTeXt and LaTeX IMHO. For example, in ConTeXt indenting is turned off by default and emphasize is set to slant. That is, ConTeXt starts off as bland as possible and the author has to make typographical decisions and engage in typographical design. In LaTeX everything is decided from the start and typographical flexibility kept to a minimum. Note that Hans for years has resisted passing out "recipes", preferring authors to engage and be original (much to the chagrin of many who migrated from LaTeX...;-) One could write an article on the differences between Hans and Leslie in this regard. All the best and Happy Holidays to the ConTeXt community (and LaTeX too)! Idris -- Professor Idris Samawi Hamid Department of Philosophy Colorado State University Fort Collins, CO 80523 -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
Here is Aditya's writeup with a few edits by this Mahajan. The part that might have been unclear to someone reading it for the first time is how ConTeXt can be modular yet monolithic: It was designed with the same general-purpose aims as LaTeX, but being younger reflects much more recent thinking about the structure of the markup, is more modular in its conception, and more monolithic in its building. So I shortened that bit in the version below. Plus I added a bit about color and hyperlinks, and I slightly softened the package clash statement about LaTeX -- as Aditya says, LaTeX is orders of magnitude better than a word processor, so let's be generous toward an ally in the cause. -Sanjoy ConTeXt is a document-production system based on the TeX typesetting system. It was designed with the same aims as LaTeX but, being newer, reflects more recent thinking about document markup and is more unified in its design. It includes extensive support for colors, hyperlinks, presentations, figure-text integration, and conditional compilation. ConTeXt gives extensive formatting control to the end user and makes it easy to create new layouts and styles without learning the TeX macro language. ConTeXt's unified design averts the package clashes that can happen with LaTeX. ConTeXt also integrates MetaFun, a superset of MetaPost and a powerful system for vector graphics. MetaFun can be used as a stand-alone system to produce figures, but its strength lies in enhancing ConTeXt documents with accurate graphic elements. ConTeXt allows the users to use formatting commands in English, Dutch, German, French, or Italian, and to use different typesetting engines (PDFTeX, XeTeX, Aleph, and soon LuaTeX) without changing the user interface. ConText is developed rapidly, has a friendly user community, and illustrates the free-software philosophy of "release often", sometimes twice a day! ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
On Fre, 22 Dez 2006, Aditya Mahajan wrote: > Here is my attempt to integrate everything said here with the UK TeX > FAQ entry and the wikipedia entry of ConTeXt, without pointing out all > the bad things about LaTeX. Everything said and done, LaTeX is much > better than Word Processors ;) Thanks a lot! Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Università di Siena Debian Developer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- MANKINHOLES (pl.n.) The small holes in a loaf of bread which give rise to the momentary suspicion that something may have made its home within. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote: > > Latexstualists may disagree but I think the essence is that Context > > gives more control and makes it easier to create new layouts. > > Also the ConTeXt parts are more integrated than the LaTeX packages are > -- think of the discussions/comments about what order LaTeX packages > must be loaded. For example, the hyperref manual says to load it last > "to give it a fighting chance of not being over-written, since its job > is to redefine many LaTeX commands." > > And ConText is also an example of the free-software philosophy of > "release often", sometimes twice a day! Here is my attempt to integrate everything said here with the UK TeX FAQ entry and the wikipedia entry of ConTeXt, without pointing out all the bad things about LaTeX. Everything said and done, LaTeX is much better than Word Processors ;) ConTeXt is a document preparation system based on the TeX typesetting system. It was designed with the same general-purpose aims as LaTeX, but being younger reflects much more recent thinking about the structure of the markup, is more modular in its conception, and more monolithic in its building. ConTeXt gives more control to the "end user" and makes it easier to create new layout without learning TeX macro language. ConTeXt is consistent in its design, and does not suffer from the "package clashes" in LaTeX. ConTeXt also integrates MetaFun which is a superset of MetaPost and a powerful system for vector graphics. Metafun can be used as a stand alone product, but its strength lies in the ability to enhance the document layout with highly accurate graphic elements. ConTeXt allows the users to use markup in different languages. Markup in English, Dutch, German, French and Italian is supported at present. ConTeXt allows the user to use different engines (pdftex, XeTeX, aleph?, luatex?) without changing the user interface. ConText is developed at a fast pace and is also an example of the free-software philosophy of "release often", sometimes twice a day! Aditya ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
> Latexstualists may disagree but I think the essence is that Context > gives more control and makes it easier to create new layouts. Also the ConTeXt parts are more integrated than the LaTeX packages are -- think of the discussions/comments about what order LaTeX packages must be loaded. For example, the hyperref manual says to load it last "to give it a fighting chance of not being over-written, since its job is to redefine many LaTeX commands." And ConText is also an example of the free-software philosophy of "release often", sometimes twice a day! -Sanjoy `Never underestimate the evil of which men of power are capable.' --Bertrand Russell, _War Crimes in Vietnam_, chapter 1. ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
On Friday 22 December 2006 08:18, Norbert Preining wrote: > The main difference between ConTeXt and LaTeX lies in the fact that LaTeX > was created with the idea of separating content and presentation to such > an extent that the typical author would write their content and then use > a style file created by someone else to provide the visual presentation. > . > ConTeXt, on the other hand, retained the idea of separating content and > presentation, but was created with the idea of being used for books, where > each book tends to have a different layout, and so the expected "end user" > is the person doing all the layout. Thus, it's designed to provide a vast > amount of flexibility for layout in a way that can be fairly easily defined > without needing to write a package Since one can move one's layout into a package in a few seconds and then include that package into a document, I think this somewhat misses the mark. Latexstualists may disagree but I think the essence is that Context gives more control and makes it easier to create new layouts. Whether or not those new layouts are in a document file or a separate package is not relevant. Nor is the original purpose for which Context was created relevant, as both Latex and Context are used for a lot more than math papers and books. --Mike Bird ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
Hi Sanjoy! On Fre, 22 Dez 2006, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote: > > - man pages for all the funny applications ... Or only one for > > texmfstart, but this would be a bit of cheating ... > > For the November 2006 TeXLive code freeze, I wrote from scratch or > revised several ConTeXt manpages -- including a few originally > "written for the Debian system", so one good turn deserves another: > attached is the .tgz file (and its .zip equivalent) that I sent Karl > Berry. Thanks a lot, installed them. Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Università di Siena Debian Developer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- YONKERS (n.) (Rare.) The combined thrill of pain and shame when being caught in public plucking your nostril-hairs and stuffing them into your side-pocket. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
Hi all! On Fre, 22 Dez 2006, Aditya Mahajan wrote: > What are the differences between ConTeXt and LaTeX? > http://wiki.contextgarden.net/FAQ#What_are_the_differences_between_ConTeXt_and_LaTeX.3F Thanks I included some text from it into the control file, ie description: Description: powerful TeX format. ConTeXt is a typographical engine written in the typographical computer language TeX. ConTeXt provides you with a convenient way to encode documents in a structured way and to typeset these documents in various ways on paper, computer screen or web site. . The main difference between ConTeXt and LaTeX lies in the fact that LaTeX was created with the idea of separating content and presentation to such an extent that the typical author would write their content and then use a style file created by someone else to provide the visual presentation. . ConTeXt, on the other hand, retained the idea of separating content and presentation, but was created with the idea of being used for books, where each book tends to have a different layout, and so the expected "end user" is the person doing all the layout. Thus, it's designed to provide a vast amount of flexibility for layout in a way that can be fairly easily defined without needing to write a package . This package also contains MetaFun. MetaFun (a superset of well known MetaPost) is a powerful system for vector graphics that is fully integrated into ConTeXt, but also usable as a stand alone product. . MetaFun is not for interactive drawing applications and not for free hand drawings. Its strength lies in the ability to enhance the document layout with highly accurate graphic elements. If someone wants to improve it ... Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Università di Siena Debian Developer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- KALAMI (n.) The ancient Eastern art of being able to fold road-maps properly. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Frank Küster wrote: > And, in particular, something which explains in 5 lines why one would > want to use ConTeXt instead of LaTeX. The ConTeXt FAQ answers this question. The first one is a complete explanation by Brooks Moses on c.t.t. while the second is a 5 line explanation by Berend de Boer in LaTeX in proper ConTeXt. What are the differences between ConTeXt and LaTeX? http://wiki.contextgarden.net/FAQ#What_are_the_differences_between_ConTeXt_and_LaTeX.3F What are the advantages of ConTeXt over LaTeX? http://wiki.contextgarden.net/FAQ#What_are_the_advantages_of_ConTeXt_over_LaTeX.3F Aditya ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
> And, in particular, something which explains in 5 lines why one would See Mike Bird. > want to use ConTeXt instead of LaTeX. I use ConteXt for automatic-print-on-demand jobs. from simple labels/stickers to complex multilanguage pricelists (i'm in a print-hous) I like for its object-oriented approach to typesettings, because it fits well with programs we use (and I made). I've started years ago with Latex2.09, but it was too much complex to program with it, and dvi-to-pdf was too complex (maybe today it's no true, but I have already made my choice). luigi ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
Norbert Preining <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi all! > > New upstream, new debian package 2006.12.21-0.1 > > deb(-src) http://www.tug.org/texlive/Debian/ context/ > > Missing before I can upload (will upload) to Debian: > - copyright file needs to be extended. I got the OK from Taco that > everything but the cows fonts are GPLv2 or PD, those fonts I couldn't > find for now, so it seems that it is ok. I have to write something up. Moreover, it's not acceptable for a Debian upload (and IMHO hardly acceptable for providing an archive for download) to mix in one archive GPL'ed and PD files, without clearly listing which is which. After all, PD means "you can do anything", while the GPL is Copyleft, or in other words one of the most restrictive Open Source licenses. > - Description: As Frank noted, something less commercial and more > descriptive. And, in particular, something which explains in 5 lines why one would want to use ConTeXt instead of LaTeX. Regards, Frank -- Dr. Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX/TeXLive) ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
On Friday 22 December 2006 02:29, Frank Küster wrote: > And, in particular, something which explains in 5 lines why one would > want to use ConTeXt instead of LaTeX. My 2 cents: Context has more coherent design, more control of page layout, more choice of font sizes, more direct control of pretty much everything. The automatic iterated construction of TOC, index, references, etc is nice too. The docs I build are subject to various formatting requirements laid down in law. They are feasible in both OpenOffice and Context but they are not feasible in Latex without a great deal of work. --Mike Bird ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
On Fre, 22 Dez 2006, Norbert Preining wrote: > New upstream, new debian package 2006.12.21-0.1 > > deb(-src) http://www.tug.org/texlive/Debian/ context/ > > Missing before I can upload (will upload) to Debian: > - copyright file needs to be extended. I got the OK from Taco that > everything but the cows fonts are GPLv2 or PD, those fonts I couldn't > find for now, so it seems that it is ok. I have to write something up. Those fonts are removed, it was the koei* files, they are not included in the .orig.tar.gz anymore, and will probably make it into -nonfree. Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Università di Siena Debian Developer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- Oh no, not again. --- A bowl of petunias on it's way to certain death. --- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
