Re: [Offline-l] [offline] Administrative notes

[Samuel Klein]

Gabe: great first logo!  Let's use it.

Florence: I do not have access to the chapter wiki.  We were just all added
to a mailing list, and invited to appoint 2 people from each user group to
join the list.  Then I believe the list will together come up with a
proposed mechanism for nomination, which will be reviewed by the WMF Board
within 2 weeks.  Would you like to be added to that list?

I will forward the last email on the topic that I've gotten.  I am willing
to be the other person from WOW, but this is a busy month so I would also
be glad to see another person step up.

Warmly, SJ


On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 3:15 AM Florence Devouard 
wrote:

> Hello
> Le 04/03/2019 à 20:30, Samuel Klein a écrit :
>
> For group contacts + reports :  It would be good to have an annual
> nomination thread, and short wiki vote, a few months before our annual
> report? (*August* each year)
>
> Ok. So we could put that back on the table around May ?
>
>
> That way we can use the same energy to summarize what's been happening;
> those involved in active projects should feel welcome to be liaisons; and
> we keep the meta pages up to date.
>
> On board voting:
>
> For information, the signpost (well, Bluerasberry) has published this that
> is worth reading:
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2019-02-28/In_focus
>
>
> + Arranging private votes has been a perennial weakness for the movement.
> Would others be interested in public discussion of pros/cons of different
> candidates?
>
> For information :
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate-selected_Board_seats
>
> Ok, vote is one thing. Nomination is another.
>
> So to start with, I am not sure what is currently the process for
> nominating candidates...
> Apparently, voting takes care on the ChapterWiki, which is a private wiki
> (I suppose that Sam has access to it... do you Sam ?)
> I presume that nomination process also takes place on the ChapterWiki ?
> Can you tell us if that is the case Sam ?
>
>
> + I respect the concerns around voting multiple times: we want people to
> be comfortable joining many groups while only voting once.  Is there any
> proposal yet re: how to do this?
>
> Unclear
>
> + Say that, per Nemo, only incorporated groups vote in the final
> selection.  Perhaps we could share formal recommendations with that group,
> before their vote (and sort those out on Meta).
>
>
> As said previously, ALL groups can vote. It is not restricted to
> incorporated groups.
> But indeed, we can also simply choose to NOT vote. But if so, this is
> something we should explicitely decide.
>
> I vaguely feel that what we should do is
> 1) participate in the nomination process (IF we have a name to propose and
> IF it is not in the current list - if list there is... so first thing would
> be to figure out where the nomination list would actually be...)
> 2) not participate in the vote (because it is unclear who our membership
> is and it is likely many of us are in other groups)
>
> What about starting by polling our "members" on a wiki page about how they
> feel about the offline group actually trying to vote for someone ?
>
>
> Florence
>
>
>
> SJ
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 9:39 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for raising the point.
>>
>> Florence Devouard, 27/02/19 14:17:
>> > Yet... an WMF affiliate has some obligations... so how should we deal
>> > with that in the least time-consuming, least-bureaucratic,
>> > least-expensive way, yet playing our role in representing, recruting
>> and
>> > promoting offline in the mouvement ?
>>
>>  From my point of view as a supporter of offline projects, the ideal
>> solution is that all affiliates agree that only incorporated entities
>> will have a formal vote (whatever its weight) in the final phase of the
>> selection of 2 board seats, to avoid creating new unwanted work about
>> internal governance.
>>
>> Alternatively, a simple method might be to decide that all user groups
>> will have a discussion/vote on a certain wiki page where all their
>> members can join (Meta-Wiki may be enough if it can be public), so that
>> it's easy to identify unwanted patterns. (And establish a quorum or
>> whatever other criteria is decided.)
>>
>> Federico
>>
>> ___
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>> Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
>>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529 4266
>
>

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Re: [Offline-l] [offline] Administrative notes

[Florence Devouard]

Hello

Le 04/03/2019 à 20:30, Samuel Klein a écrit :
For group contacts + reports :  It would be good to have an annual 
nomination thread, and short wiki vote, a few months before our annual 
report? (/August/ each year)


Ok. So we could put that back on the table around May ?


That way we can use the same energy to summarize what's been 
happening; those involved in active projects should feel welcome to be 
liaisons; and we keep the meta pages up to date.


On board voting:


For information, the signpost (well, Bluerasberry) has published this 
that is worth reading:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2019-02-28/In_focus


+ Arranging private votes has been a perennial weakness for the 
movement.  Would others be interested in public discussion of 
pros/cons of different candidates?


For information : 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliate-selected_Board_seats


Ok, vote is one thing. Nomination is another.

So to start with, I am not sure what is currently the process for 
nominating candidates...
Apparently, voting takes care on the ChapterWiki, which is a private 
wiki (I suppose that Sam has access to it... do you Sam ?)
I presume that nomination process also takes place on the ChapterWiki ? 
Can you tell us if that is the case Sam ?



+ I respect the concerns around voting multiple times: we want people 
to be comfortable joining many groups while only voting once.  Is 
there any proposal yet re: how to do this?

Unclear

+ Say that, per Nemo, only incorporated groups vote in the final 
selection.  Perhaps we could share formal recommendations with that 
group, before their vote (and sort those out on Meta).



As said previously, ALL groups can vote. It is not restricted to 
incorporated groups.
But indeed, we can also simply choose to NOT vote. But if so, this is 
something we should explicitely decide.


I vaguely feel that what we should do is
1) participate in the nomination process (IF we have a name to propose 
and IF it is not in the current list - if list there is... so first 
thing would be to figure out where the nomination list would actually be...)
2) not participate in the vote (because it is unclear who our membership 
is and it is likely many of us are in other groups)


What about starting by polling our "members" on a wiki page about how 
they feel about the offline group actually trying to vote for someone ?



Florence




SJ

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 9:39 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) 
mailto:nemow...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Thanks for raising the point.

Florence Devouard, 27/02/19 14:17:
> Yet... an WMF affiliate has some obligations... so how should we
deal
> with that in the least time-consuming, least-bureaucratic,
> least-expensive way, yet playing our role in representing,
recruting and
> promoting offline in the mouvement ?

 From my point of view as a supporter of offline projects, the ideal
solution is that all affiliates agree that only incorporated entities
will have a formal vote (whatever its weight) in the final phase
of the
selection of 2 board seats, to avoid creating new unwanted work about
internal governance.

Alternatively, a simple method might be to decide that all user
groups
will have a discussion/vote on a certain wiki page where all their
members can join (Meta-Wiki may be enough if it can be public), so
that
it's easy to identify unwanted patterns. (And establish a quorum or
whatever other criteria is decided.)

Federico

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Re: [Offline-l] [offline] Administrative notes

[Benjamin Balder Bach]

Dear Gabriel,

Could be great with a logo :) And with more activity!! :)

Depending on who the target group of the logo is, I would propose a less
"disabled" logo. Being offline can also mean to solve bandwidth issues,
to circumvent repressive governments or to just be more resilient in
some broader sense. It should be empowering.

Most offline solutions would build upon their own network infrastructure.

While I cannot create a logo, I would strongly suggest to use symbolism
of for instance "local area networks"
,
rather than "not connected" or "not online".


Best,
Ben

On 3/5/19 4:31 PM, Gabriel Thullen wrote:
> First of all, I would like to thank Florence for bringing this subject up.
>
> I must admit that I did not know of the group's existence until one
> day I "happened" upon it about one month ago. I was researching the
> possibility of creating an Offline User Group, and had even created a
> logo for a user group back in December 2018:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Offline_Logo.svg
>
> I therefore propose this logo for the group.
>
> I am also willing to work to get this User Group more active.
>
> Best regards
> Gabriel
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 8:31 PM Samuel Klein  > wrote:
>
> For group contacts + reports :  It would be good to have an annual
> nomination thread, and short wiki vote, a few months before our
> annual report? (/August/ each year)
> That way we can use the same energy to summarize what's been
> happening; those involved in active projects should feel welcome
> to be liaisons; and we keep the meta pages up to date.
>   
> On board voting:
> + Arranging private votes has been a perennial weakness for the
> movement.  Would others be interested in public discussion of
> pros/cons of different candidates? 
> + I respect the concerns around voting multiple times: we want
> people to be comfortable joining many groups while only voting
> once.  Is there any proposal yet re: how to do this? 
> + Say that, per Nemo, only incorporated groups vote in the final
> selection.  Perhaps we could share formal recommendations with
> that group, before their vote (and sort those out on Meta).
>
> SJ 
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 9:39 AM Federico Leva (Nemo)
> mailto:nemow...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Thanks for raising the point.
>
> Florence Devouard, 27/02/19 14:17:
> > Yet... an WMF affiliate has some obligations... so how
> should we deal
> > with that in the least time-consuming, least-bureaucratic,
> > least-expensive way, yet playing our role in representing,
> recruting and
> > promoting offline in the mouvement ?
>
>  From my point of view as a supporter of offline projects, the
> ideal
> solution is that all affiliates agree that only incorporated
> entities
> will have a formal vote (whatever its weight) in the final
> phase of the
> selection of 2 board seats, to avoid creating new unwanted
> work about
> internal governance.
>
> Alternatively, a simple method might be to decide that all
> user groups
> will have a discussion/vote on a certain wiki page where all
> their
> members can join (Meta-Wiki may be enough if it can be
> public), so that
> it's easy to identify unwanted patterns. (And establish a
> quorum or
> whatever other criteria is decided.)
>
> Federico
>
> ___
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> Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> 
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
>
>
>
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> 529 4266
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
>
>
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-- 
Benjamin Balder Bach
Software development, board member, 100% volunteer
www.twitter.com/benjaoming

FAIR Denmark // www.fairdanmark.dk
Ensuring digital longevity and development through free, open knowledge and 
software

i...@fairdenmark.dk
tel. +45 29900413

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https://twitter.com/FairDanmark

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Re: [Offline-l] [offline] Administrative notes

[Gabriel Thullen]

First of all, I would like to thank Florence for bringing this subject up.

I must admit that I did not know of the group's existence until one day I
"happened" upon it about one month ago. I was researching the possibility
of creating an Offline User Group, and had even created a logo for a user
group back in December 2018:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Offline_Logo.svg

I therefore propose this logo for the group.

I am also willing to work to get this User Group more active.

Best regards
Gabriel

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 8:31 PM Samuel Klein  wrote:

> For group contacts + reports :  It would be good to have an annual
> nomination thread, and short wiki vote, a few months before our annual
> report? (*August* each year)
> That way we can use the same energy to summarize what's been happening;
> those involved in active projects should feel welcome to be liaisons; and
> we keep the meta pages up to date.
>
> On board voting:
> + Arranging private votes has been a perennial weakness for the movement.
> Would others be interested in public discussion of pros/cons of different
> candidates?
> + I respect the concerns around voting multiple times: we want people to
> be comfortable joining many groups while only voting once.  Is there any
> proposal yet re: how to do this?
> + Say that, per Nemo, only incorporated groups vote in the final
> selection.  Perhaps we could share formal recommendations with that group,
> before their vote (and sort those out on Meta).
>
> SJ
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 9:39 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for raising the point.
>>
>> Florence Devouard, 27/02/19 14:17:
>> > Yet... an WMF affiliate has some obligations... so how should we deal
>> > with that in the least time-consuming, least-bureaucratic,
>> > least-expensive way, yet playing our role in representing, recruting
>> and
>> > promoting offline in the mouvement ?
>>
>>  From my point of view as a supporter of offline projects, the ideal
>> solution is that all affiliates agree that only incorporated entities
>> will have a formal vote (whatever its weight) in the final phase of the
>> selection of 2 board seats, to avoid creating new unwanted work about
>> internal governance.
>>
>> Alternatively, a simple method might be to decide that all user groups
>> will have a discussion/vote on a certain wiki page where all their
>> members can join (Meta-Wiki may be enough if it can be public), so that
>> it's easy to identify unwanted patterns. (And establish a quorum or
>> whatever other criteria is decided.)
>>
>> Federico
>>
>> ___
>> Offline-l mailing list
>> Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
>>
>
>
> --
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
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Re: [Offline-l] [offline] Administrative notes

[Samuel Klein]

For group contacts + reports :  It would be good to have an annual
nomination thread, and short wiki vote, a few months before our annual
report? (*August* each year)
That way we can use the same energy to summarize what's been happening;
those involved in active projects should feel welcome to be liaisons; and
we keep the meta pages up to date.

On board voting:
+ Arranging private votes has been a perennial weakness for the movement.
Would others be interested in public discussion of pros/cons of different
candidates?
+ I respect the concerns around voting multiple times: we want people to be
comfortable joining many groups while only voting once.  Is there any
proposal yet re: how to do this?
+ Say that, per Nemo, only incorporated groups vote in the final
selection.  Perhaps we could share formal recommendations with that group,
before their vote (and sort those out on Meta).

SJ

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 9:39 AM Federico Leva (Nemo) 
wrote:

> Thanks for raising the point.
>
> Florence Devouard, 27/02/19 14:17:
> > Yet... an WMF affiliate has some obligations... so how should we deal
> > with that in the least time-consuming, least-bureaucratic,
> > least-expensive way, yet playing our role in representing, recruting and
> > promoting offline in the mouvement ?
>
>  From my point of view as a supporter of offline projects, the ideal
> solution is that all affiliates agree that only incorporated entities
> will have a formal vote (whatever its weight) in the final phase of the
> selection of 2 board seats, to avoid creating new unwanted work about
> internal governance.
>
> Alternatively, a simple method might be to decide that all user groups
> will have a discussion/vote on a certain wiki page where all their
> members can join (Meta-Wiki may be enough if it can be public), so that
> it's easy to identify unwanted patterns. (And establish a quorum or
> whatever other criteria is decided.)
>
> Federico
>
> ___
> Offline-l mailing list
> Offline-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/offline-l
>


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Re: [Offline-l] [offline] Administrative notes

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Thanks for raising the point.

Florence Devouard, 27/02/19 14:17:
Yet... an WMF affiliate has some obligations... so how should we deal 
with that in the least time-consuming, least-bureaucratic, 
least-expensive way, yet playing our role in representing, recruting and 
promoting offline in the mouvement ?


From my point of view as a supporter of offline projects, the ideal 
solution is that all affiliates agree that only incorporated entities 
will have a formal vote (whatever its weight) in the final phase of the 
selection of 2 board seats, to avoid creating new unwanted work about 
internal governance.


Alternatively, a simple method might be to decide that all user groups 
will have a discussion/vote on a certain wiki page where all their 
members can join (Meta-Wiki may be enough if it can be public), so that 
it's easy to identify unwanted patterns. (And establish a quorum or 
whatever other criteria is decided.)


Federico

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