Re: Funny POSSCON anecdote
Important to realize that CEOs at McNealy's level mostly work at 10,000ft (except for Steve Jobs, and those stories are legendary). Sometime we can swap stories about helping Scooter (what we used to call him) get messaging right when talking to pretty much anybody with vested interest. He is an amazing guy, don't get me wrong. He has the skill of convincingly representing a given piece of work on very short notice with the right briefing...but his depth of knowledge was always bounded by briefings immediately beforehand. Fundamentally he was an actor more than a technologist. Some of this was probably due to the sheer size of Sun, so he may be deep-diving on WayIn now that his field of endeavor is more narrow. My $.02 from the front lines Danese On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 1:51 PM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com wrote: Funny but very sad...esp considering he was OOo's former patron. You would think that McNealy would be a bit more up to speed. sheesh! As for AOO's success with his presentation -- good for us! -- --**--** MzK Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. -- Robert Heinlein
Re: Unsubscription
Which brings up a question...why do we not configure ooo-dev to auto-generate the how to digest and how to unsub info on the 1st of every month (like 90% of the mailman-driven mail lists I'm on) My guess is we have a lot of subscribers who aren't developers and would prefer to opt out or to digest the stream... D On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Raphael Bircher rbircher_...@bluewin.chwrote: Hi Send a mail to ooo-dev-unsubscribe@incubator.**apache.orgooo-dev-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.orgend you will get a mail back who you ask if you will realy unsubscribe. Simply replay this mail, you have nothing to write. Then you will get a message GOODBYE. After this message you will get no messages anymore. Greetings Raphael Am 05.03.12 22:19, schrieb louise zuleger: Yes, I want to unsubscribe from the daily/hourly subscription. From: mapuanakaponi...@hotmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: RE: Unsubscription Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 13:16:34 -0800 Please unsubscribe me from the mailng list. Thank you. From: jorge_89...@hotmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Unsubscription Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 20:11:04 + Hi, please I want to unsubscribe me from the mailing list
Re: Passport Without A Visa: Open Source Software Licensing and Trademarks
Ahem. Excuse me, but Tiki Dare is the trademark lawyer who brought us the ridiculous naming policies around Java products when she was at Sun... (as well as the much-maligned OpenOfficeDotOrg). IMHO its quite possible to kill a brand with tedious correctness from a Trademark protection point of view. Danese On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: A good read on trademarks and open source software. I highly recommend PPMC members read this over, and especially note how trademarks can become invalid due to naked licensing. http://www.ifosslr.org/ifosslr/article/viewFile/11/38 -Rob
Re: Where to hold an event
Probably somewhere in Europe, I'm guessing. On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 1:47 AM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.comwrote: If AOO were to hold an event for developers where should it be? Reply to this thread, or better still, submit your details to our people finder see http://community.apache.org/speakers/speakers.html Sent from my mobile device, please forgive errors and brevity.
Re: 18 Jan 2012: SOPA and PIPA Protest Banner
While it might have been appropriate for ASF projects such as AOO to join today's SOPA/PIPA protest, I agree that it's too late to coordinate now. The Wikipedia community has been working towards their protest action for more than a week, including a town hall meeting and other consensus-verification processes. Even so, there is today an interview with a community member who doesn't like the action they've taken. In short, I just don't think we have time to socialize such an action on the part of even the AOO project before the protest would be over. D On Jan 18, 2012, at 8:05 AM, Louis Suárez-Potts lo...@apache.org wrote: All, Proposal: 1. Let's vote on supporting those who have protested the proposed US bills supposed to combat piracy but actually doing a lot more than that and none of it good. These two proposals: SOPA and PIPA. Wikipedia has a fair account: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act 2. I would propose we post on the Apache OpenOffice podling site this language, for remainder of the day, to be taken down at the onset of 19 January 2012 GMT. ** The Apache OpenOffice Podling members support those who have darkened their Web sites as a unified gesture to protect the freedoms of the Internet and stop misguided legislation that would threaten them. ** I would propose further that we have the text white on a black banner at the top of every podling page. Please vote as soon as you can, as obviously time is of the essence. thanks louis PS I'm cc'ing the ASF marketing and publicity list. Quite possible that Apache will say no, if so, that's fine. Better we act as a body together. But I would also suggest that ASF take the lead here and issue a statement, if they have not done so already.
Re: Time for the ASF to send an Open Letter?
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 12:57 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.comwrote: On 15 November 2011 18:31, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote: Why the AL is important for such a standard such as Open Office and ODF; Hey, we can even quote Stallman there. I'm not sure I'm +1 on an open letter or not. I certainly like Rob's manifesto/top ten type idea. I'm not sure we need something that might be seen as aggressive, if the TDF as a whole really reacted the way we were told then such a letter may be seen as an attack on the TDF itself, rather than an attempt to address FUD from a few. Ross +1 to what Ross is saying (and I think Simon was trying to get at the same issue). A list of things we're doing (from the project, *not* the figurehead of ASF) would probably be less contentious. Danese -- Ross Gardler (@rgardler) Programme Leader (Open Development) OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Help Docs Proprietary Documentation
You'll want to ask Andrew Rist. D On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lo...@apache.orgwrote: During the last year of OOo @ Oracle, a lot of rather good material was created to help/train users fresh (or forgetful) to OpenOffice.org and Oracle Open Office. This material as created by Oracle was proprietary: O owned it. So, my query. What has become of it? It has little value, as far as I can tell, for Oracle, at this point. But it would prove immensely useful for many constituting the OOo (now AOO, I'd guess) ecosystem. (Building that ecosystem was one of my primary tasks, and I like to think I did fairly well at it.) Does anyone know what happened to the material? And, if Apache now has it, can we license it or simply permit it for ecosystem use under the appropriate conditions and license? My preference would be to make all training and educational material free (in all senses) and to recuperate costs with actual services provided. Thanks Louis
Re: [DISCUSS]+[VOTE] Trademark and Branding
I must admit to wondering who we are in your statements, Donald. D On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:14 PM, Pedro Giffuni p...@apache.org wrote: Hello; An important question. The vote is for choosing the product name, can the project name be different? To make this clear: I would think it practical to keep option (a) for the product, but option (b) for the project. Just wondering if there will be a second vote for the project name. regards, Pedro. --- On Wed, 11/9/11, Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com wrote: We've had a lengthy discussion on ooo-marketing regarding trademark and branding considerations and options. It's time we moved forward and made a decision in order to expedite the ongoing migration of the web site and to remove one more obstacle from the dev team. We want to preserve and protect the historic OpenOffice.org trademark. The choice of an Apache name and new trademark will not impact the historic mark as granted to the Apache Software Foundation for stewardship. Since this is a major decision we felt it important to bring it back to ooo-dev for final discussion then vote. We have the choices presented on the wiki[1] for your reference. [1]https://cwiki.apache.org/**confluence/display/OOOUSERS/** Branding+Planning https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Branding+Planning
Re: We're on slashdot!
On Oct 14, 2011, at 1:04 PM, Donald Whytock dwhyt...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: I've read through the German materials at the site and, while Google Translator does stumble, the gist of it is pretty clear. This has all the appearance of an over-the-top plea to fund 4 guys to save OpenOffice.org from death-by-abandonment. To further the confusion, the download link for OpenOffice.org 3.3 is into http://download.openoffice.org. The Thank you for your contribution after a Paypal donation (they have my 5 Euro) is also a page on http://openoffice.org. Is it even four guys? They list five title-related email addresses and give the same phone number five times. If I didn't know Team OO existed before now I'd wonder if someone had just built a site from random images. Team OpenOffice.org is a German non-profit started by some people in the Hamburg office back when OO.o was newly open-sourced to collect and handle monies to support community events. Sun employees started it extra to their day jobs, and many sources sent it money (including individuals and companies such as IBM). Sun didn't want to collect / handle such donations directly, and the Hamburg guys needed a way to pay for conferences, etc. Much if their dispersement has historically been to individual community members in support of travel to OOo conferences. Team OpenOffice.org did undertake and secure the global registration of the OpenOffice.org trademark because Sun was initially content to leave it unregistered since first use in the US provides some protection, but after Team OpenOffice.org secured the mark legally they were asked to transfer it to Sun and did so...they were all Sun employees afterall. They are currently five of the engineers who have been working on OpenOffice for much of their lives (20+ years in more than one case). This code is their baby, and for better or worse they wish to continue to produce a product the way they think it should be done. They have expressed interest in seeing AOO.o become a viable upstream. I think what's happening now is reporters trying to make sense of a complicated story with many factions. It probably isn't a coincidence that LibreOffice Con is this weekend and we're the real deal messaging is coming from LO and TOOo is concerned about dilution of the OOo brand... My $.02 Danese
Re: Targeted Donations?
Hi Rob, I think the problem is that ASF doesn't have a policy of paying for development. Additionally, monies that do come in through the Sponsorships is *not* earmarked for a specific project. There are currently no mechanisms to deal with this. At ConCom we've seen the Meetup communities raise money for specific events and ConCom is working to figure out best to support self-organizing targeted funding for events...but again this isn't the same as accepting donations for coding. If AOOo did this, it would be completely new (and IMHO the Board would have to agree to it). There is the added dimension that the larger OOo/LO communities have long been accepting donation monies earmarked for specific things (such as SoftwareAG taking money to sponsor travel to OOo-related events). These have always completely separate from the code copyright owner and might be useful to divert donation inquiries towards. Good news is there are alternative well-established pots of money that donors can be directed to. Of course SoftwareAG is only tax-exempt in Germany, as the ASF is only tax-exempt in the USA... My $.02 Danese On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote: I'm seeing some members say on the ooo-users list that targeted donations are not permitted at Apache. But a cursory investigation calls this statement into question. For example, the contribution website at Apache [1] says, If you have a specific target or project that you wish to directly support, please contact us and we will do our best to satisfy your wishes. And I see an old ASF Board resolution explicitly enabling the acceptance of targeted donations [2]. What is the situation? Is this just what is true of any US-based non-profit, that we can only officially accept official contributions at the foundation-level, but that the Board does a best-effort attempt to use the funds in a way that respects the donor's wishes? I don't think the project should solicit donations to the project alone. Our project creates non-trivial load on infrastructure staff, hardware and bandwidth, and that is best remediated by general, unencumbered donations to ASF. But if someone came along and wanted to donate specifically for the benefit of the project, would we really be required to turn them away? -Rob [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html#Financial [2] http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/1999/board_minutes_1999_09_22.txt
Re: Request dev help: Info for required crypto export declaration
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Rob Weir r...@robweir.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: snip 1) Was something similar every done for OpenOffice.org? Most software companies are aware of this US export regulation and do this declaration as a matter of routine. But not all open source projects are as diligent as ASF is. So it is possible that OOo never did this before. But if they did, we could reuse much of their paperwork. AFAIR Sun did that some time ago, but I'm not 100% sure. Yes, Sun did this (probably for every official release). Danese
Re: Wikipedia's Rate this page
Rob, You may not know that I am the CTO of Wikimedia Foundation. Let me tell you that you want to first watch the experiment that is the new Article Feedback feature play out awhile on Wikipedia. We at WMF have no idea whether we're even measuring the right things with that tool yet. Danese On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Rob Weir apa...@robweir.com wrote: Don't know if you've noticed this new feature that has recently been rolled out. Scroll down to the bottom of this, or any other Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenOffice.org Readers are invited to rate the page on completeness, objectivity, etc. Presumably this information is aggregated and in the future can guide editors towards the pages that need the most work. Would an approach like this have any benefit for our website, for doc, tutorials, etc.? -Rob
Re: OOo Trademark
Well, after a policy is decided on, I'd suggest we publish it along with a request for permission link that goes to a special list in this PPMC of people willing to moderate the OOo trademark policy. That's how OSI, Mozilla, Wikimedia and a few other projects I can think about do it. One nice to have is pre-canned logo usage for the most common and simplest cases (like...I want to print a tee-shirt for my conference, or I want to reference your project in my story (from journalists)) I would be willing to serve on that list. D Any observations on how this is typically handled by other community-led (as opposed to corporate-led) OSS projects? -Rob
Re: OpenOffice.org (was Re: Ooo blog)
To recap...I think this might be a slightly different situation than Apache has previously experienced and it might be worth having the ASF Trademark watchdogs and ASF lawyers talk through the pros and cons of what's possible / advisable to do in this special case. That conversation could impact / inform the naming strategy for various parts of the project and I think it should happen soon. D On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:52 AM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: Yes, exactly! Sent from my iPhone On Jul 12, 2011, at 8:39 AM, Sam Ruby ru...@intertwingly.net wrote: On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: On Jul 12, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Simon Phipps wrote: On 12 Jul 2011, at 15:38, Dave Fisher wrote: On Jul 12, 2011, at 7:03 AM, Simon Phipps wrote: On 12 Jul 2011, at 13:32, Kai Ahrens wrote: Of course it makes a difference to ask our users instead of asking some deeply involved people on this list, having very subjective interests in one or the other direction. And in the end, the user rules, not any marketing speech. While that sounds good, I'm not sure it's the Apache way and I'd welcome a comment from one of the mentors. See Daneese Cooper's emails. Did you have a specific one in mind? Naturally I read everything Danese writes, but so far I have not seen her comment on the issue of whether and how market research over-rides the interests of Apache members. Sorry, I am out of pocket and this thread is so long. Basically she is talking about consulting one of the ASF's attorney's regarding the names and brand dilution issues from a legal standpoint. You are likely referring to this post then: http://s.apache.org/UxA I hadn't gotten to market research. I'm focused on migration and the websites - all names are possible right now and in the future. I don't want to tie the branding too tightly in the web design. The Apache CMS will allow us to isolate these elements. Regards, Dave - Sam Ruby
Re: OpenOffice.org (was Re: Ooo blog)
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.namewrote: Javier Sola wrote on Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 18:43:17 +0700: If Apache forced this without discussion it would be a bad start for the project. You're misportraying the facts; it's a preexisting Apache policy that predates OOo being proposed as a podling. Now, we're generally reasonable people here, and the podling can always request an exception (talk to trademarks@). But, with my Member hat on, this collective Let's join Apache, but not be called Apache, and not work with existing Apache entities spirit leaves a rather bad taste. Ah Daniel, many of these folks didn't ask to join Apache. This is a situation that has been rare at Apache until now (modulo Apache Subversion). Normally a project is obscure when it starts at Apache and the only job is to find a name nobody has used before. OpenOffice.org is a very valuable brand worldwide...possibly equal to Apache in value. As a Member (and Mentor of this project) I think the right thing to do is to use the Apache prefix along with the (regrettable but established) .org suffix. I do think ASF should ask trademark law counsel whether doing so would be considered dilution of the brand, however. Danese
OpenOffice.org (was Re: Ooo blog)
It isn't just a matter of who gets more hits on Google. In 2000, the OpenOffice name was not trademarkable worldwide (and probably still is not) without the .org. OTOH, the ASF doesn't normally seek to register all it's trademarks worldwide because of cost (in the US, first use of a mark is significant enough)...but if Oracle is transferring it's trademarks to the ASF (and if it's the worldwide trademark, then it's worth about $350,000 USD), then we're back to dealing with the .org, I'm afraid. Danese Kay Shenk wrote: -Yeah, once upon a time, when you did a search on Open Office, the *other* office suite, whoever owned this brand, came up (like maybe 6+ years ago). Now it doesn't, but we should ascertain the status or history of this before changing the product/brand name I think, just to be safe.
Re: Reminder: TAC Assistance to ApacheCon NA 2011 closes July 8th
Sorry if my forward was missing content. I did not edit it. Must have been iPhone mail client fail. D On Jul 3, 2011, at 7:50 AM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: Danese's FYI was missing a lot of content. Begin forwarded message: From: Gavin McDonald ga...@16degrees.com.au Date: July 2, 2011 5:19:57 PM PDT To: committ...@apache.org Subject: Reminder: TAC Assistance to ApacheCon NA 2011 closes July 8th Reply-To: tac-ap...@apache.org Hi All, Just a friendly (and final) reminder that applications for financial help to attend ApacheCon NA 2011 in Vancouver close this coming Friday 8th July (2200 BST : UTC+1) Financial assistance is available for Travel (planes, trains, whatever) , Accommodation (at the conference venue hotel) and Conference entrance fees. Dependant on your circumstances will decide how much of that you would be given. Please visit http://apache.org/travel for more information and a link to the application form. Remember: We DO help people get to ApacheCon and other Apache events every year, we DO want to help people get there who otherwise could not, that is why we exist. Spread the word, you are welcome to tweet, blog, email, post, phone or smoke signal to anyone who you think might benefit from attending ApacheCon this year. (Any queries please to the tac-apply.at.apache.org address only, do not try and post to this committers announce only list) Kind Regards, The Travel Assistance Committee.
Fwd: Reminder: TAC Assistance to ApacheCon NA 2011 closes July 8th
FYI Begin forwarded message: From: Gavin McDonald ga...@16degrees.com.au Date: July 2, 2011 5:16:14 PM PDT To: p...@apache.org Subject: Reminder: TAC Assistance to ApacheCon NA 2011 closes July 8th Reply-To: priv...@incubator.apache.org Reply-To: ga...@16degrees.com.au Hi All, Just a friendly (and final) reminder that applications for financial
