Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

2014-07-21 Thread DrDoug Pennell
These folks have done some interesting work on creating characters that can be 
used in Unity.

https://vhtoolkit.ict.usc.edu/

Doug

 Your and Kay's research look fascinating. I am not sure to what extent you 
 mean by built in to the core? Do you mean that different scenarios can be 
 readily set up by the instructors? Unity, SL, OpenSim all have their 
 constraints and limitations. In both unity and Opensim avatars have limited 
 scope for emotional expressions and translating external movement and 
 gestures although OpenSim and SL has a lot of flexibility in terms of dress 
 and attachments helping with the formation of identity. I am not sure about 
 the rigging in Unity though. 
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Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

2014-07-21 Thread DrDoug Pennell
Hi Kay,

I think what Tom meant (and definitely what I meant) is that adapting and 
changing objects on the fly in real time by more than one person is not needed. 
What I referred to as collaborative content creation - two or more 
people/students creating things that did not exist previously in world. 
Updating resources such as a textbook in Unity and rebuilding the environment 
is a quick and painless process. I rebuild my simulations on a regular basis to 
change a character or access a different AI data set. I just create a new URL 
for the new sim.

I completely agree that students don't have time to fuss with virtual world 
simulations that are not relevant to their courses. Nor do they have time to 
spend on orientation activities needed just to learn the interface. Anything 
that makes the experience easier and more relevant is desirable.

It seems like your environment is working well for you and your students so 
there is no need to switch. That is probably true for most folks on this list.

Doug 

 On Jul 20, 2014, at 10:24 AM, Kay McLennan mclennan@gmail.com wrote:
 
 On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Tom tom.will...@bessacarr.com wrote:
  
 ...For many educational uses adapting and changing objects is not needed...
  
 While it is true that some types of educational simulations are well suited 
 for static simulations (like a virtual tour of the inner workings of a human 
 body part or a historic recreation of a city), static (Unity platform-like) 
 builds are completely ill-suited for the types of online economics and 
 business studies college courses I teach.  
 
 Even the online courses that utilize extensive instructor- or 
 institution-created materials always simultaneously utilize a textbook (to 
 insure the transmission of the relevant portion of the course-specific common 
 body of knowledge).  In turn, the textbooks I utilize in all of my courses 
 change each year.  Sometimes the textbook changes simply involve a 
 [maddening] re-sort of the chapters (to enable the publisher to change the 
 edition and sell more new copies of the text).  Still (and more importantly), 
 it is often the case that the material in the textbook changes (and these 
 changes need to be reflected in the course materials and activities).  For 
 example, social media marketing is now one of the most important components 
 in the field of marketing but was barely mentioned in textbooks even as 
 recently as a few years ago.  Similarly, the cases in business ethics 
 textbooks continue to change at an almost exponential rate owing to the 
 abundance of new real work examples of unethical behavior (think GMC, BP, the 
 financial meltdown, GMOs, fracking, and more!).
 
 Further, college students (including traditional and non traditional aged 
 students) are pressed for time and require course-specific learning 
 simulations only.  That is, students do not have the time to explore virtual 
 world simulations that are only tangentially related to the course learning 
 objectives.  Rather, the virtual world learning simulations have to be graded 
 activities that are worth their time (in the sense of being detailed and 
 expansive enough to contribute specifically to their understanding of the 
 course material).  Again, in the same way high quality college textbooks and 
 online course sites require continual updates and upgrades, high quality 
 virtual world simulations need to be updated and upgraded -- to contribute 
 specifically to students' understanding of the course material.
 
 Also (and this is a BIG item), I am constantly thinking up (and testing) new 
 types of virtual world learning simulations.  In other words, my view is that 
 it would be too limiting to be only be able to create a simulation once.  In 
 contrast, right now, I currently have about 40 or more different types of 
 virtual world learning simulations in play [read:  that I collect student 
 feedback data on (based on student -- Likert scale-based -- views on the 
 interactivity, engagement, and contribution to learning outcomes for each 
 simulation -- see some of the early data collected at:  
 https://sites.google.com/site/fvwc12mclennan/student-survey-data-2)].  Note:  
 Over the years, students have provided excellent and surprising feedback.  
 For example, in the basic economics course I teach, I thought students would 
 be keenly interested in the Free Trade Game I built (with each student the 
 president/king/queen/dictator of their own island nation).  However, the 
 in-world PP slides (from my lecture notes that are also uploaded into my 
 course site) and the in-world vocabulary flash cards were rated markedly 
 higher than the Free Trade Game in every category.
 
 Note:  My college-level students almost universally [first] say they need 
 asynchronous virtual world learning activities ONLY (in keeping with how all 
 of my online courses are asynchronous).  However, after the students get some 
 experience with the 

Re: [Opensim-users] Hoping for a fearless comparison of opensim vs unity 3D

2014-07-19 Thread DrDoug Pennell
I am with Tom on this one. For many educational uses, adapting and changing 
objects is not needed. Of course there are educational uses where adapting and 
changing objects is critical, however many (most?) educational sims I visited 
in SL did not rely on students working together to create things, and there are 
plenty of uses where it is simply not needed. Simulations are a perfect example 
and an area where Unity excels over SL or OpenSim. I built some fairly involved 
simulations in SL and have since essentially abandoned the platform and 
switched to Unity. 

As has been said many times, SL/OpenSim is great for collaborative content 
creation. If you are doing that then sticking with SL/OpenSim makes perfect 
sense. If you don't need your students to work together and make widgets on the 
fly, then Unity might be a better choice. 

It is all about using the right tool for the job.

Doug Danforth

 On Jul 19, 2014, at 1:02 PM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll r.raml...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Tom tom.will...@bessacarr.com wrote:
 For many educational uses adapting and changing objects is not needed.
 
 I respectfully beg to differ. This is the core of the my research efforts. A 
 learning environment needs to provide user level tailorability from the core. 
 The fact that it is not available does not mean that it is not needed. I 
 cannot count how many times, subject matter experts felt that their teaching 
 is being canned by the environment, or that students find their expression 
 (through actions) limited. This is the result of extensive evaluation on the 
 ground, both from an ethnographic evaluation perspective and for a user level 
 evaluation perspective. I hope to publish these findings soon (well after I 
 get some time away from writing grant proposals or doing actual building work)
 
 
 -- 
 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
 Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research 
 Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 
 208-240-0040
 LinkedIn, DeepSemaphore LLC, RezMela, Google+ profile
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