Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-31 Thread Joerg Schilling
Peter Tribble [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not really. The fastest systems today can't saturate a DVD, 100M network, or hard disk with bzip2. I would happily exchange the 5% loss in compression for the 10x performance win. If you need that 5%, then there are probably other ways to get it

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-31 Thread Darren J Moffat
David Powell wrote: Visual Panels is written in Java, and we're quite happy with the performance we're getting. Java performance has improved a lot, and that's not just because computers are getting faster. I also think it's fair to say that most of SMC's sluggishness has little to do

[osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-31 Thread Neil Corlett
I wonder about zipping an image of an installed filesystem, then copy (as in cat image | gzip -d | dd of=/dev/dsk/rdsk/...) that onto the drive (or pool, if plausible). It would be faster than writing the 1000's files individually. You still need package technology but you could get most of the

[osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-31 Thread UNIX admin
I wonder about zipping an image of an installed filesystem, then copy (as in cat image | gzip -d | dd of=/dev/dsk/rdsk/...) that onto the drive (or pool, if plausible). It would be faster than writing the 1000's files individually. You still need package technology but you could get most of

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread a b
That is not a good thing, I do agree, but at the same time - I'd say it's Solaris that needs to improve in this regard. If people can't use your product properly (95% of the time to use your statistic) then something is wrong with the usability of your product. Not the (95%) of people. Not saying

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread a b
I think you're missing the point. I'd say most of that 95% percent isn't used through difficulty, but through ignorance. For example, I'd say thay 95% of M$ Word's features are unused, but I don't see people claiming that it is hard to use. Correct. And us usual, Rich hits the nail right on

[osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread UNIX admin
We know of several ways to speed up install, and it will happen. We need to: 1) keep dvd spun up. 2) switch to lower cost compression instead of bzip2 I would strongly discourage switching from bzip2. bzip2 may be slow, but CPUs will only get faster, and meanwhile, the compression

[osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread UNIX admin
Seconded. I really love Solaris (now... I've seen the light!) - but forget doing DVD installs. I can literally *hear* the drive spinning up and down repeatedly. I have no problem when transferring contiguous files from the dvd once Solaris is installed, it is almost certainly something

[osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread UNIX admin
Yes a flash/jumpstart/whatever install would have been much quicker, but how many people are going to do that the first go-around with Solaris? Well, Your average Joe User won't, that's for sure; but then again, neither will he nor most of Linux fanboys use KickStart either. On the other

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread Casper . Dik
I would strongly discourage switching from bzip2. bzip2 may be slow, but CPUs will only get fast er, and meanwhile, the compression algorithm of bzip2 will stay the same. If DVD drives do not get faster, CPUs will need to get around 10x faster for bzip2 to catch up with DVDs; that is, if DVDs

[osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread Stephen Potter
You're only supposed to go through installing from CD/DVD once, then create a Flash(TM) archive and install from the network afterwards. That's great for those of us in a networked, enterprise environment. For Joe R. User installing on his home PC, that's not really an option. I have

[osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread Louwtjie Burger
Hmmm, it's a tough issue ... here is a scenario: Let's take a regular Solaris administrator thats been doing his job for several years now (medium to large org)... looking after 5 x V880's running Oracle 9i on some EMC storage. VAR: Solaris 10 GA !! OMG !! *gasp* ADMIN: Hmmm, send me some

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread Peter Tribble
On Thu, 2006-03-30 at 12:32, UNIX admin wrote: I would strongly discourage switching from bzip2. bzip2 may be slow, but CPUs will only get faster, and meanwhile, the compression algorithm of bzip2 will stay the same. When one factors in that no other cruncher/compressor/packer/archiver

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread Bill Rushmore
On Thu, 30 Mar 2006, Stephen Potter wrote: You're only supposed to go through installing from CD/DVD once, then create a Flash(TM) archive and install from the network afterwards. That's great for those of us in a networked, enterprise environment. For Joe R. User installing on his

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread Ian Collins
Darren J Moffat wrote: UNIX admin wrote: Agreed. SMC sucks dead bunnies through a bent straw sideways; but then again, being a hardcore shell guy, perhaps I'm the wrong person to write that. /usr/sadm/bin/sm* is the CLI interface to SMC. What can we do (other than the performance

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread Joerg Schilling
Ian Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My understanding is that 16x is the physical limit, before the disks fly apart! 18x is the limit. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work)

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread David Powell
On Fri, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:56:38AM +1200, Ian Collins wrote: A simple GUI interface would be a start, even a graphical overview of the services would help. Though not SMC, the Visual Panels project is attempting to do just that. (Actually, if services are all you're interested in, it

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-30 Thread Ian Collins
David Powell wrote: On Fri, Mar 31, 2006 at 07:56:38AM +1200, Ian Collins wrote: A simple GUI interface would be a start, even a graphical overview of the services would help. Though not SMC, the Visual Panels project is attempting to do just that. (Actually, if services are all

[osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-29 Thread Jürgen Keil
- USB performance (very slow, I raised an RFE some time ago) Can you provide some test case that shows bad USB performance? HW details? Are you running a recent opensolaris build (= snv_35, the one including the fix for bug 6372009)? This message posted from opensolaris.org

[osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-29 Thread Thomas Maier-Komor
right now, I can outline what I did yesterday. If you want more detail, just ask and I'll provide precise data. Yesterday, I tried to copy data to an USB stick (documented two issues concerning this in the bugs mailing list). During this I did an iostat -xzn 5 and got about 700k/s on an USB2

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-29 Thread Casper . Dik
How was the UBS stick mounted? What was the USB device detected as? What USB controller hardware do you have? This almost sounds like USB 1.x speeds which leads me to suspect it's a controller issue. Casper ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list

[osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-29 Thread Louwtjie Burger
Thanks maierkom for going where only the bold can be found ;) I agree with you 100% from a Sun VAR perspective, where we are in contact with end-users (admins) and clients all the time. 95% of the people out there doesn't use nearly all of the features contained in Solaris 10+ and as such form

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-29 Thread Joerg Schilling
Thomas Maier-Komor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: right now, I can outline what I did yesterday. If you want more detail, just ask and I'll provide precise data. Yesterday, I tried to copy data to an USB stick (documented two issues concerning this in the bugs mailing list). During this I did an

[osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-29 Thread UNIX admin
95% of the people out there doesn't use nearly all of the features contained in Solaris 10+ and as such form their opinion on the basic interface to the OS. This is very true, but I question what you meant by that. In my own experience, 95% of the people don't use a lot of the features of

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-29 Thread David J. Orman
This is very true, but I question what you meant by that. In my own experience, 95% of the people don't use a lot of the features of Solaris because they're almost completely incompetent when it comes to Solaris. That is not a good thing, I do agree, but at the same time - I'd say it's

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-29 Thread Rich Teer
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, David J. Orman wrote: That is not a good thing, I do agree, but at the same time - I'd say it's Solaris that needs to improve in this regard. If people can't use your product properly (95% of the time to use your statistic) then something is wrong with the usability of

Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Slowaris vs. Solaris

2006-03-29 Thread Bill Rushmore
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006, Rich Teer wrote: Try living where I do--and yes, I do know Solaris well. :-( On more than one occassion, I've actually been told that I'm over qualified! I can see it now: Interviewer: So Rich, how much do you know about Solaris systems programming?