[osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
I'd like to have virtual consoles like the ones Linux has (at least on x86). Of course one could use screen, but generally CTRL+A hotkey interferes with e.g. bash hotkey to move to the first character in the cmd-line (yes, ctrl+a, a is a workaround - but nothing more than a workaround). regards, nino. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
I'd like to have virtual consoles like the ones Linux has (at least on x86). Of course one could use screen, but generally CTRL+A hotkey interferes with e.g. bash hotkey to move to the first character in the cmd-line (yes, ctrl+a, a is a workaround - but nothing more than a workaround). Nino -- Here's some background on virtual consoles in Solaris: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/desktop/communities/jds/roadmap/solaris_gaps/#Virtual_Consoles Eric ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
Eric Boutilier wrote: I'd like to have virtual consoles like the ones Linux has (at least on x86). Of course one could use screen, but generally CTRL+A hotkey interferes with e.g. bash hotkey to move to the first character in the cmd-line (yes, ctrl+a, a is a workaround - but nothing more than a workaround). Nino -- Here's some background on virtual consoles in Solaris: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/desktop/communities/jds/roadmap/solaris_gaps/#Virtual_Consoles One very annoying gap here is that when my Opteron desktop goes casters-up (yes I run my own kernel bits on my desktop before I put them back) I'm left staring at what appears to be a locked-up GUI screen. The system drops into the debugger, but the video is still in X! I'm hoping that the console stuff will fix that, too. - Eric ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
Nenad Cimerman wrote: I'd like to have virtual consoles like the ones Linux has (at least on x86). There's a team at Sun working on this - they should be submitting an OpenSolaris project proposal soon to bring this out into the open. -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
OK, not really a feature necessarily of Solaris but more of an application. I really want VMware (or its equivalent), especially since the SUNpci card is becoming obsolete on Sparc and there really isn't an alternative on x64 yet. BrandZ is a nice idea but I need to run a popular non-Unix like OS. Bill rushmores.net ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Bill Rushmore wrote: OK, not really a feature necessarily of Solaris but more of an application. I really want VMware (or its equivalent), especially since the SUNpci card is becoming obsolete on Sparc and there really isn't an alternative on x64 yet. BrandZ is a nice idea but I need to run a popular non-Unix like OS. +1 Hmmm. A Windoze Branded Zone on a smokin' fast Opetron server seems to me like an ideal way to run the occassional Windoze app. My SUn PCi IIpro card is starting to show its age: running it across the network is kinda slow. -- Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member President, Rite Online Inc. Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 08:17 -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Nenad Cimerman wrote: I'd like to have virtual consoles like the ones Linux has (at least on x86). There's a team at Sun working on this - they should be submitting an OpenSolaris project proposal soon to bring this out into the open. Sounds promissing! And I always wanted to have a mouse support in console, ala gpm(Linux) and moused(BSD). Kernel support is needed. Description: General Purpose Mouse Interface This package provides a daemon that captures mouse events when the system console is active, and delivers events to applications through a library. . The default when no application is running is to emulate selection, that is, to allow cut-and-paste with the mouse on the console the same way as it is done under X. -- Erast ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
Rich Teer wrote: On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Bill Rushmore wrote: OK, not really a feature necessarily of Solaris but more of an application. I really want VMware (or its equivalent), especially since the SUNpci card is becoming obsolete on Sparc and there really isn't an alternative on x64 yet. BrandZ is a nice idea but I need to run a popular non-Unix like OS. +1 Hmmm. A Windoze Branded Zone on a smokin' fast Opetron server seems to me like an ideal way to run the occassional Windoze app. My SUn PCi IIpro card is starting to show its age: running it across the network is kinda slow. a windows branded zone? that would be really really cool, can it be done? is anyone working on it? I'm guessing it would be a titanic job nacho ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 12:08 -0500, Bill Rushmore wrote: OK, not really a feature necessarily of Solaris but more of an application. I really want VMware (or its equivalent), especially since the SUNpci card is becoming obsolete on Sparc and there really isn't an alternative on x64 yet. BrandZ is a nice idea but I need to run a popular non-Unix like OS. QEMU 0.7.x? though it is too slow. To speed it up, we might need to develop a kernel acceleration module for solaris. -- Erast ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Ignacio Marambio Catán wrote: a windows branded zone? that would be really really cool, can it be done? is anyone working on it? I'm guessing it would be a titanic job It would be cool, and I suppose it could be done, given enough motivation. I have no idea if anyone is working on it, and I guess it would be a big job. But failing the appearence of a Windoze Brnaded Zone, the ability for Solaris to be a VMware host is the only way to get Sun PCi-like functionality on x86, unless Sun PCi itself gets ported to Solaris x86 (which would also be a fine idea). My E220R is getting a bit long in the tooth (not to mention, noisy and power hungry), but I'd like my next home server to be able to support SUn PCi (or similar) so that prevents me from getting somehting like an X2100. (That, and lack of support for my HVD HBA for my D1000. I know that the card itself is now supported, but I don't think it fits into one of Sun's Opeteron-based servers.) -- Rich Teer, SCNA, SCSA, OpenSolaris CAB member President, Rite Online Inc. Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
Erast Benson wrote: And I always wanted to have a mouse support in console, ala gpm(Linux) and moused(BSD). Kernel support is needed. It's already there in Solaris SPARC, where graphics cards have in kernel frame buffers with ioctls to draw the cursor - it's just not well known and pretty much only used by the X server. I've got a bit of code tucked away here that I used to test the hwc (hardware cursor) module from console mode to load the cursor and have it track the mouse around the SPARC console screen - you could also do it without hwc by having the application be responsible for the cursor updates itself. (hwc is just an optimization - it's a streams module that Xsun pushes on top of the mouse module that takes the movement events from the mouse and makes direct calls to the frame buffer driver to move the hardware cursor image, completely in kernel space without having to wait for the mouse event to go up to the X server, wait for the X server process to get a time slice and then to get to the right point in the code to process it and then send it back down to the fb driver in the kernel. It won't be in the initial OpenSolaris X code drop, but may be in a later one.) -- -Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 10:53 -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Erast Benson wrote: And I always wanted to have a mouse support in console, ala gpm(Linux) and moused(BSD). Kernel support is needed. It's already there in Solaris SPARC, where graphics cards have in kernel frame buffers with ioctls to draw the cursor - it's just not well known and pretty much only used by the X server. I've got a bit of code tucked away here that I used to test the hwc (hardware cursor) module from console mode to load the cursor and have it track the mouse around the SPARC console screen - you could also do it without hwc by having the application be responsible for the cursor updates itself. (hwc is just an optimization - it's a streams module that Xsun pushes on top of the mouse module that takes the movement events from the mouse and makes direct calls to the frame buffer driver to move the hardware cursor image, completely in kernel space without having to wait for the mouse event to go up to the X server, wait for the X server process to get a time slice and then to get to the right point in the code to process it and then send it back down to the fb driver in the kernel. It won't be in the initial OpenSolaris X code drop, but may be in a later one.) This is a nice feature. But this is not what I wanted. I'd like to have some way to distribute cooked mouse events to text only applications, like screen, ncurses-based apps, generic console, etc. -- Erast ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
Erast Benson wrote:
This is a nice feature. But this is not what I wanted. I'd like to have
some way to distribute cooked mouse events to text only applications,
like screen, ncurses-based apps, generic console, etc.
You'ld just need to put code into curses or another library to read the
VUID events from /dev/mouse, which are pretty cooked already. All the
details of handling USB vs. PS2 vs. SPARC serial mouse are hidden in the
kernel modules, as is handling multiple mice in S10U1 Nevada, and all
you need to know is to open /dev/mouse and read the motion and button
events.
For example, if you look in Xorg 6.9's Solaris mouse code in
xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support/sunos/sun_mouse.c
the event decoding is simply reading from /dev/mouse in chunks
the size of the Firm_event defined in sys/vuid_event.h and
parsing the simple event types:
if (pVuidMse-event.id = BUT_FIRST pVuidMse-event.id = BUT_LAST)
{/* button */
int butnum = pVuidMse-event.id - BUT_FIRST;
if (butnum 3)
butnum = 2 - butnum;
if (!pVuidMse-event.value)
buttons = ~(1 butnum);
else
buttons |= (1 butnum);
} else if (pVuidMse-event.id = VLOC_FIRST
pVuidMse-event.id = VLOC_LAST) {
/* axis */
int delta = pVuidMse-event.value;
switch(pVuidMse-event.id) {
case LOC_X_DELTA:
dx += delta;
break;
case LOC_Y_DELTA:
dy -= delta;
break;
case LOC_X_ABSOLUTE:
if (absXset) {
vuidFlushAbsEvents(pInfo, absX, absY, absXset, absYset);
}
absX = delta;
absXset = TRUE;
break;
case LOC_Y_ABSOLUTE:
if (absYset) {
vuidFlushAbsEvents(pInfo, absX, absY, absXset, absYset);
}
absY = delta;
absYset = TRUE;
break;
}
}
Should be trivial to translate into the appropriate code in curses or similar
libraries. There's even events for wheels on wheel mice.
--
-Alan Coopersmith- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering
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Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
On Wed, 2006-03-22 at 11:29 -0800, Alan Coopersmith wrote:
Erast Benson wrote:
This is a nice feature. But this is not what I wanted. I'd like to have
some way to distribute cooked mouse events to text only applications,
like screen, ncurses-based apps, generic console, etc.
You'ld just need to put code into curses or another library to read the
VUID events from /dev/mouse, which are pretty cooked already. All the
details of handling USB vs. PS2 vs. SPARC serial mouse are hidden in the
kernel modules, as is handling multiple mice in S10U1 Nevada, and all
you need to know is to open /dev/mouse and read the motion and button
events.
For example, if you look in Xorg 6.9's Solaris mouse code in
xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/os-support/sunos/sun_mouse.c
the event decoding is simply reading from /dev/mouse in chunks
the size of the Firm_event defined in sys/vuid_event.h and
parsing the simple event types:
if (pVuidMse-event.id = BUT_FIRST pVuidMse-event.id =
BUT_LAST)
{/* button */
int butnum = pVuidMse-event.id - BUT_FIRST;
if (butnum 3)
butnum = 2 - butnum;
if (!pVuidMse-event.value)
buttons = ~(1 butnum);
else
buttons |= (1 butnum);
} else if (pVuidMse-event.id = VLOC_FIRST
pVuidMse-event.id = VLOC_LAST) {
/* axis */
int delta = pVuidMse-event.value;
switch(pVuidMse-event.id) {
case LOC_X_DELTA:
dx += delta;
break;
case LOC_Y_DELTA:
dy -= delta;
break;
case LOC_X_ABSOLUTE:
if (absXset) {
vuidFlushAbsEvents(pInfo, absX, absY, absXset,
absYset);
}
absX = delta;
absXset = TRUE;
break;
case LOC_Y_ABSOLUTE:
if (absYset) {
vuidFlushAbsEvents(pInfo, absX, absY, absXset,
absYset);
}
absY = delta;
absYset = TRUE;
break;
}
}
Should be trivial to translate into the appropriate code in curses or similar
libraries. There's even events for wheels on wheel mice.
Thanks a lot for explanation of implementation internals!
It seems like to make majority of console applications happy and avoid
their code modifications, we might want to add solaris support to gpm or
moused package.
Is somebody on the list willing to hack on it? I will be happy to try to
push a proposed solution to the next release of NexentaOS.
--
Erast
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[osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
For what it's worth, it doesn't sound like that's what he means. Instead, the driver is health checked in some way and deliberately unloaded and reloaded if it's not working. Yes indeed IIRC that's the purpose of this feature. Rather than being an additional stress-test (which is what the DEBUG behavior in Solaris is), it sounds like the intent is to work around bug-ridden drivers. If so, that's verging far too close for my taste to continuing operation after internal consistency has been lost and risking data corruption. Maybe that could depend on the module/driver. I agree it'd be better to stop working if there is a problem in the filesystem kernel module. But we could imagine some other drivers (e.g. sound card driver) where this behaviour (unload/reload if it doesn't respond) is safe. Drivers could be marked (it'd be a user choice) as safely reloadable. This feature made me think yep that's a nice idea when I read about it. I did not think much more about it, and maybe it's not that cool, it can of course be discussed. That's what I thought about when starting this thread. If people write down what they'd like to see in Solaris, this could give people some ideas to start new cool projects or improve some others. A kind of suggestion box. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: Features found in other OS you'd like to see in Solaris
This feature made me think yep that's a nice idea when I read about it. I did not think much more about it, and maybe it's not that cool, it can of course be discussed. I'm not too impressed about features which primarily work around broken software. (If the driver not responds because of broken hardware, then reloading the driver obviously makes no sense). How do you unload a driver which is stuck? It may have threads of control and those threads may hold mutexes. What does it mean when a driver does not respond? A useful first line of enquiry would be how do I forcibly unload a driver?. Casper ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
