Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hey Tomasz - I see that *packaging team* have decided to update PostgreSQL to 9.3 [1]. However, we aren't going to use PostgreSQL's JSON column for VIPs, as it was pointed in the initial mail. My IMO here - despite the fact PostgreSQL is cool and provides a lot of useful feature, I'd prefer to

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hi, Just wondering what is fine result and decision? This change is pretty wide and impacts many dev (and users), I think we should be listening to the feedback before making any decision. Regards, > On 17 Dec 2015, at 11:01, Artem Silenkov wrote: > > Hello! > We

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hi Andrew, It doesn't look fair at all to say that we use Postgres specific feature for no reasons or as you said "just because we want". For example we used Arrays which fits pretty well for our roles usage, which improved readability and performance. Or try to fit into relational system

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hi, Since older Postgres doesn't introduce bugs and it won't harm new features, I would vote for downgrade to 9.2 The reasons are: 1. not to support own package for Centos (as far as I know 9.3 for Ubuntu is already there) 2. should Fuel some day be a part of upstream Centos? If yes, or there is

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

In fact, it seems that 9.2 is in the mix since the introduction of centos7. Thus, all tests that have been made since then are made against 9.2. So, upgrading it to 9.3 actually is a change that has to be blocked by FF/SCF. Just my 2c. -- Best regards, Oleg Gelbukh On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:13

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hello! We have merged 9.3 a week ago. From packaging team side downgrade is not an option and was made by mistake. Regards Artem Silenkov --- MOS-PAckaging On Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 12:32 Oleg Gelbukh wrote: > In fact, it seems that 9.2 is in the mix since the introduction of

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hi, On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 1:09 AM, Evgeniy L wrote: > Hi, > > Since older Postgres doesn't introduce bugs and it won't harm new features, > I would vote for downgrade to 9.2 > > The reasons are: > 1. not to support own package for Centos (as far as I know 9.3 for Ubuntu >

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

> From what I understand, we are using 9.2 since the CentOS 7 switch. Can > anyone point me to a bug caused by that? AFAIK, there's no such bugs. Some folks have just *concerns*. Anyway, it's up to packaging team to decide whether to package or not. From Nailgun POV, I'd like to see classical

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

On 12/15/2015 11:39 AM, Igor Kalnitsky wrote: > Hey Mike, > > Thanks for your input. > >> actually not. if you replace your ARRAY columns with JSON entirely, > > It still needs to fix the code, i.e. change ARRAY-specific queries > with JSON ones around the code. ;) > >> there's already a

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

On 12/15/2015 02:53 PM, Andrew Maksimov wrote: > +1 to Igor suggestion to downgrade Postgres to 9.2. Our users don't work > directly with Postgres, so there is no any deprecation of Fuel features. > Maintaining our own custom Postgres package just because we want "JSON > column" is not a

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

On 2015-12-16 08:23, Mike Scherbakov wrote: > We could consider downgrading in Fuel 9.0, but I'd very carefully > consider that. As Vladimir Kuklin said, there are may be other users who > already rely on 9.3 for some of their enhancements. That will be way too late for that, as it will make

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

On 2015-12-16 10:14, Bartłomiej Piotrowski wrote: > On 2015-12-16 08:23, Mike Scherbakov wrote: >> We could consider downgrading in Fuel 9.0, but I'd very carefully >> consider that. As Vladimir Kuklin said, there are may be other users who >> already rely on 9.3 for some of their enhancements. >

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hey Mike, Thanks for your input. > actually not. if you replace your ARRAY columns with JSON entirely, It still needs to fix the code, i.e. change ARRAY-specific queries with JSON ones around the code. ;) > there's already a mostly finished PR for SQLAlchemy support in the queue. Does it

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

+1 to Igor suggestion to downgrade Postgres to 9.2. Our users don't work directly with Postgres, so there is no any deprecation of Fuel features. Maintaining our own custom Postgres package just because we want "JSON column" is not a rational decision. Come on, fuel is not a billing system with

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

+1 to Vova and Sasha, I voted for 9.2 at the beginning of the thread due to potential packaging and infrastructure issues, but since Artem and Sasha insist on 9.3, I see no reasons to keep 9.2. 2015-12-15 22:19 GMT+03:00 Aleksandra Fedorova : > Igor, > > that's an

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Folks Let me add my 2c here. I am for using Postgres 9.3. Here is an additional argument to the ones provided by Artem, Aleksandra and others. Fuel is being sometimes highly customized by our users for their specific needs. It has been Postgres 9.3 for a while and they might have as well gotten

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Igor, that's an anonymous vote for question stated in a wrong way. Sorry, but it doesn't really look like a valuable input for the discussion. On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Igor Kalnitsky wrote: > FYI: so far (according to poll [1]) we have > > * 11 votes for keeping

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Igor Sorry, this vote is irrelevant as it is not about all the concerns rasied by Artem, Aleksandra and me. It is about JSON vs non-JSON Postgres which is not exactly the case. On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Igor Kalnitsky wrote: > FYI: so far (according to poll [1])

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

FYI: so far (according to poll [1]) we have * 11 votes for keeping 9.2 * 4 votes for restoring 9.3 [1] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RNcEVFsg7GdHIXlJl-6LCELhlwQ_zmTbd40Bk_jH1m4/edit?usp=sharing On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Vladimir Kuklin wrote: > Folks > >

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

On Mon, Dec 14 2015, Igor Kalnitsky wrote: > The things I want to notice are: > > * Currently we aren't tied up to PostgreSQL 9.3. > * There's a patch [2] that ties Fuel up to PostgreSQL 9.3+ by using a > set of JSON operations. I'm curious and have just a small side question: does that mean

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hey Julien, > https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/openstack-ha-fuel-postgresql I believe this blueprint is about DB for OpenStack cloud (we use Galera now), while here we're talking about DB backend for Fuel itself. Fuel has a separate node (so called Fuel Master) and we use PostgreSQL

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hello! I got another few points against downgrading. 1. PostgreSQL-9.2 will reach end-of-life at September 2017 according to [0]. With high probability it means that we will have 9.2 version in centos repos when fuel9.0 arrives. It means that we will have to repackage it anyway just later a

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hello, I made an attempt to gather all valuable points 'for' and 'against' 9.2.x in one document [1]. Please take a look on it, I also put some comments there to keep everything in one place. I believe this can help us to make deliberated decision. Please add more pros / cons there as I don't

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Dmitry, Thank you for this document! Please move it on https://etherpad.openstack.org to make it accessible Best regards, Alexey Shtokolov 2015-12-16 1:38 GMT+03:00 Dmitry Teselkin : > Hello, > > I made an attempt to gather all valuable points 'for' and 'against' >

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

I'd support PostgreSQL 9.3 in 8.0. * It is clear that PostgreSQL downgrade wasn't planned and discussed before Feature Freeze, so this change is accidental. We didn't investigate all possible consequences and changes required for the switch. * In Infra we have all our unit tests run on PostgreSQL

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Artem - > PostgreSQL-9.2 will reach end-of-life at September 2017 according to [0]. Python 2.7 will reach end-of-life at the beginning of 2020. However, we don't drop Python 2.7 and don't start using Python 3.5 instead. Moreover we aren't going to have CentOS 7 forever. I believe either new

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Igor Kalnitsky wrote: > * 11 votes for keeping 9.2 > * 4 votes for restoring 9.3 Igor, please remove my vote from "9.2", I voted for "I'm too conservative, I want to see classic RDBMS approach" , but not to keep accidentally downgraded

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Wow such a hot topic... I'm also the one who voted for 9.2. But I also voted like Alexey S., "I'm conservative..." - I am actually mostly conservative, and would question every new cool tool/feature of library unless there is a very good proof on using it. You can't build a product which will have

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hello! We use mysql-wsrep-5.6 which is latest for galera. It is based on MySQL-5.6.27. So JSON features here is not available yet. Regards, Artem Silenkov --- MOS-Packaging On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 6:06 PM, Mike Bayer wrote: > > > On 12/15/2015 07:20 AM, Igor Kalnitsky

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

On 12/15/2015 07:20 AM, Igor Kalnitsky wrote: > Hey Julien, > >> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/openstack-ha-fuel-postgresql > > I believe this blueprint is about DB for OpenStack cloud (we use > Galera now), while here we're talking about DB backend for Fuel > itself. Fuel has a

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

On 2015-12-14 13:12, Igor Kalnitsky wrote: > My opinion here is that I don't like that we're going to build and > maintain one more custom package (just take a look at this patch [4] > if you don't believe me), but I'd like to hear more opinion here. > > Thanks, > Igor > > [1]

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hi, > Downgrading for no reason could bring us to big trouble and bad user experience +1 to this. Let's keep PostgreSQL 9.3. Regards, Alex On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Artem Silenkov wrote: > Hello! > > Vote for update. > > 1. We have already shipped 9.3 in

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hello! Vote for update. 1. We have already shipped 9.3 in fuel-7.0. Downgrading such complicated package without any reason is not good thing at all. User experience could suffer a lot. 2. The next reason is tests. We have tested only 9.3, 9.2 was not tested at all. I'm sure we could bring

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

Hi, If we can stick with upstream PostgresSQL that would be really nice. Otherwise security updates and regular package update will be a burden of package maintainers. Ideally we should have as less forked packages as possible. -- Best regards, Sergii Golovatiuk, Skype #golserge IRC #holser On

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] PostgreSQL 9.3 and JSON operations

It's important to note that given the change in the upgrade method, there will be no actual downgrade of the package, since Fuel 8.0 Admin Node will be installed on a clean system. So, from the upgrade standpoint I see no obstacles to have 9.2 in Fuel 8.0. I also greet any chance to reduce the