Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Wiki

2017-07-05 Thread Rochelle Grober 
And I'd just like to point out, when was the last time you tried to find info 
contained in some etherpad on our etherpad server without having the etherpad's 
exact name?  Either searched for a specific etherpad or for info you knew was 
somewhere on an etherpad somewhere on the etherpad.openstack.org site?

If you have any tricks for that, I could really use them ;-)

--Rocky

Arkady Kanevsky wrote:
> Most of google searches will pickup wiki pages. So people will view wiki as
> the current state of projects.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Thierry Carrez [mailto:thie...@openstack.org]
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2017 9:30 AM
> To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Wiki
> 
> Flavio Percoco wrote:
> > On 03/07/17 13:58 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> >> Flavio Percoco wrote:
> >>> Sometimes I wonder if we still need to maintain a Wiki. I guess some
> >>> projects still use it but I wonder if the use they make of the Wiki
> >>> could be moved somewhere else.
> >>>
> >>> For example, in the TC we use it for the Agenda but I think that
> >>> could be moved to an etherpad. Things that should last forever
> >>> should be documented somewhere (project repos, governance repo in
> >>> the TC case) where we can actually monitor what goes in and easily
> >>> clean up.
> >>
> >> This is a complete tangent, but I'll bite :) We had a thorough
> >> discussion about that last year, summarized at:
> >>
> >> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-June/096481.h
> >> tml
> >>
> >> TL,DR; was that while most authoritative content should (and has been
> >> mostly) moved off the wiki, it's still useful as a cheap publication
> >> platform for teams and workgroups, somewhere between a git repository
> >> with a docs job and an etherpad.
> >>
> >> FWIW the job of migrating authoritative things off the wiki is still
> >> on-going. As an example, Thingee is spearheading the effort to move
> >> the "How to Contribute" page and other first pointers to a reference
> >> website (see recent thread about that).
> >
> > I guess the short answer is that we hope one day we won't need it. I
> > certainly do.
> >
> > What would happen if we make the wiki read-only? Would that break
> > peopl's workflow?
> >
> > Do we know what teams modify the wiki more often and what it is they
> > do there?
> 
> The data is publicly available (see recent changes on the wiki). Most ops
> workgroups heavily rely on the wiki, as well as a significant number of
> upstream project teams and workgroups. Developers are clearly not the
> main target.
> 
> You can dive back into the original analysis etherpad if you're interested:
> 
> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/wiki-use-cases
> 
> Things that are stroked out are things we moved to reference websites since
> then.
> 
> --
> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
> 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Wiki

2017-07-03 Thread Arkady.Kanevsky 
Most of google searches will pickup wiki pages. So people will view wiki as the 
current state of projects.

-Original Message-
From: Thierry Carrez [mailto:thie...@openstack.org] 
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2017 9:30 AM
To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Wiki

Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 03/07/17 13:58 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>> Flavio Percoco wrote:
>>> Sometimes I wonder if we still need to maintain a Wiki. I guess some 
>>> projects still use it but I wonder if the use they make of the Wiki 
>>> could be moved somewhere else.
>>>
>>> For example, in the TC we use it for the Agenda but I think that 
>>> could be moved to an etherpad. Things that should last forever 
>>> should be documented somewhere (project repos, governance repo in 
>>> the TC case) where we can actually monitor what goes in and easily 
>>> clean up.
>>
>> This is a complete tangent, but I'll bite :) We had a thorough 
>> discussion about that last year, summarized at:
>>
>> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-June/096481.h
>> tml
>>
>> TL,DR; was that while most authoritative content should (and has been
>> mostly) moved off the wiki, it's still useful as a cheap publication 
>> platform for teams and workgroups, somewhere between a git repository 
>> with a docs job and an etherpad.
>>
>> FWIW the job of migrating authoritative things off the wiki is still 
>> on-going. As an example, Thingee is spearheading the effort to move 
>> the "How to Contribute" page and other first pointers to a reference 
>> website (see recent thread about that).
> 
> I guess the short answer is that we hope one day we won't need it. I 
> certainly do.
> 
> What would happen if we make the wiki read-only? Would that break 
> peopl's workflow?
> 
> Do we know what teams modify the wiki more often and what it is they 
> do there?

The data is publicly available (see recent changes on the wiki). Most ops 
workgroups heavily rely on the wiki, as well as a significant number of 
upstream project teams and workgroups. Developers are clearly not the main 
target.

You can dive back into the original analysis etherpad if you're interested:

https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/wiki-use-cases

Things that are stroked out are things we moved to reference websites since 
then.

--
Thierry Carrez (ttx)

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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Wiki (was: How to deal with confusion around "hosted projects")

2017-07-03 Thread Flavio Percoco 

On 03/07/17 11:04 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:

Excerpts from Flavio Percoco's message of 2017-07-03 16:11:44 +0200:

On 03/07/17 13:58 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>Flavio Percoco wrote:
>> Sometimes I wonder if we still need to maintain a Wiki. I guess some
>> projects still use it but I wonder if the use they make of the Wiki could be 
moved
>> somewhere else.
>>
>> For example, in the TC we use it for the Agenda but I think that could be 
moved
>> to an etherpad. Things that should last forever should be documented 
somewhere
>> (project repos, governance repo in the TC case) where we can actually monitor
>> what goes in and easily clean up.
>
>This is a complete tangent, but I'll bite :) We had a thorough
>discussion about that last year, summarized at:
>
>http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-June/096481.html
>
>TL,DR; was that while most authoritative content should (and has been
>mostly) moved off the wiki, it's still useful as a cheap publication
>platform for teams and workgroups, somewhere between a git repository
>with a docs job and an etherpad.
>
>FWIW the job of migrating authoritative things off the wiki is still
>on-going. As an example, Thingee is spearheading the effort to move the
>"How to Contribute" page and other first pointers to a reference website
>(see recent thread about that).

I guess the short answer is that we hope one day we won't need it. I certainly
do.

What would happen if we make the wiki read-only? Would that break peopl's
workflow?

Do we know what teams modify the wiki more often and what it is they do there?

Thanks for biting :)
Flavio



The docs team is looking for operators to take over the operators guide
and move that content to the wiki (operators have said they don't want
to deal with gerrit reviews).



++

This is the perfect answer. If there's a use-case, I think we're good.

Thanks for the bringing this up,
Flavio

--
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Wiki (was: How to deal with confusion around "hosted projects")

2017-07-03 Thread Melvin Hillsman 
Additionally there are non-project folks who use the wiki - Working Groups
/ UC Teams / SIGs (potentially) - so I also request not making the wiki
read-only.

On Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Doug Hellmann 
wrote:

> Excerpts from Flavio Percoco's message of 2017-07-03 16:11:44 +0200:
> > On 03/07/17 13:58 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> > >Flavio Percoco wrote:
> > >> Sometimes I wonder if we still need to maintain a Wiki. I guess some
> > >> projects still use it but I wonder if the use they make of the Wiki
> could be moved
> > >> somewhere else.
> > >>
> > >> For example, in the TC we use it for the Agenda but I think that
> could be moved
> > >> to an etherpad. Things that should last forever should be documented
> somewhere
> > >> (project repos, governance repo in the TC case) where we can actually
> monitor
> > >> what goes in and easily clean up.
> > >
> > >This is a complete tangent, but I'll bite :) We had a thorough
> > >discussion about that last year, summarized at:
> > >
> > >http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-
> June/096481.html
> > >
> > >TL,DR; was that while most authoritative content should (and has been
> > >mostly) moved off the wiki, it's still useful as a cheap publication
> > >platform for teams and workgroups, somewhere between a git repository
> > >with a docs job and an etherpad.
> > >
> > >FWIW the job of migrating authoritative things off the wiki is still
> > >on-going. As an example, Thingee is spearheading the effort to move the
> > >"How to Contribute" page and other first pointers to a reference website
> > >(see recent thread about that).
> >
> > I guess the short answer is that we hope one day we won't need it. I
> certainly
> > do.
> >
> > What would happen if we make the wiki read-only? Would that break peopl's
> > workflow?
> >
> > Do we know what teams modify the wiki more often and what it is they do
> there?
> >
> > Thanks for biting :)
> > Flavio
> >
>
> The docs team is looking for operators to take over the operators guide
> and move that content to the wiki (operators have said they don't want
> to deal with gerrit reviews).
>
> Please don't make the wiki read-only.
>
> Doug
>
>
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-- 
-- 
Kind regards,

Melvin Hillsman
mrhills...@gmail.com
mobile: (832) 264-2646

Learner | Ideation | Belief | Responsibility | Command
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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Wiki (was: How to deal with confusion around "hosted projects")

2017-07-03 Thread Doug Hellmann 
Excerpts from Flavio Percoco's message of 2017-07-03 16:11:44 +0200:
> On 03/07/17 13:58 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> >Flavio Percoco wrote:
> >> Sometimes I wonder if we still need to maintain a Wiki. I guess some
> >> projects still use it but I wonder if the use they make of the Wiki could 
> >> be moved
> >> somewhere else.
> >>
> >> For example, in the TC we use it for the Agenda but I think that could be 
> >> moved
> >> to an etherpad. Things that should last forever should be documented 
> >> somewhere
> >> (project repos, governance repo in the TC case) where we can actually 
> >> monitor
> >> what goes in and easily clean up.
> >
> >This is a complete tangent, but I'll bite :) We had a thorough
> >discussion about that last year, summarized at:
> >
> >http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-June/096481.html
> >
> >TL,DR; was that while most authoritative content should (and has been
> >mostly) moved off the wiki, it's still useful as a cheap publication
> >platform for teams and workgroups, somewhere between a git repository
> >with a docs job and an etherpad.
> >
> >FWIW the job of migrating authoritative things off the wiki is still
> >on-going. As an example, Thingee is spearheading the effort to move the
> >"How to Contribute" page and other first pointers to a reference website
> >(see recent thread about that).
> 
> I guess the short answer is that we hope one day we won't need it. I certainly
> do.
> 
> What would happen if we make the wiki read-only? Would that break peopl's
> workflow?
> 
> Do we know what teams modify the wiki more often and what it is they do there?
> 
> Thanks for biting :)
> Flavio
> 

The docs team is looking for operators to take over the operators guide
and move that content to the wiki (operators have said they don't want
to deal with gerrit reviews).

Please don't make the wiki read-only.

Doug


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Wiki

2017-07-03 Thread Thierry Carrez 
Flavio Percoco wrote:
> On 03/07/17 13:58 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>> Flavio Percoco wrote:
>>> Sometimes I wonder if we still need to maintain a Wiki. I guess some
>>> projects still use it but I wonder if the use they make of the Wiki
>>> could be moved
>>> somewhere else.
>>>
>>> For example, in the TC we use it for the Agenda but I think that
>>> could be moved
>>> to an etherpad. Things that should last forever should be documented
>>> somewhere
>>> (project repos, governance repo in the TC case) where we can actually
>>> monitor
>>> what goes in and easily clean up.
>>
>> This is a complete tangent, but I'll bite :) We had a thorough
>> discussion about that last year, summarized at:
>>
>> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-June/096481.html
>>
>> TL,DR; was that while most authoritative content should (and has been
>> mostly) moved off the wiki, it's still useful as a cheap publication
>> platform for teams and workgroups, somewhere between a git repository
>> with a docs job and an etherpad.
>>
>> FWIW the job of migrating authoritative things off the wiki is still
>> on-going. As an example, Thingee is spearheading the effort to move the
>> "How to Contribute" page and other first pointers to a reference website
>> (see recent thread about that).
> 
> I guess the short answer is that we hope one day we won't need it. I
> certainly
> do.
> 
> What would happen if we make the wiki read-only? Would that break peopl's
> workflow?
> 
> Do we know what teams modify the wiki more often and what it is they do
> there?

The data is publicly available (see recent changes on the wiki). Most
ops workgroups heavily rely on the wiki, as well as a significant number
of upstream project teams and workgroups. Developers are clearly not the
main target.

You can dive back into the original analysis etherpad if you're interested:

https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/wiki-use-cases

Things that are stroked out are things we moved to reference websites
since then.

-- 
Thierry Carrez (ttx)



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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Wiki (was: How to deal with confusion around "hosted projects")

2017-07-03 Thread Flavio Percoco 

On 03/07/17 13:58 +0200, Thierry Carrez wrote:

Flavio Percoco wrote:

Sometimes I wonder if we still need to maintain a Wiki. I guess some
projects still use it but I wonder if the use they make of the Wiki could be 
moved
somewhere else.

For example, in the TC we use it for the Agenda but I think that could be moved
to an etherpad. Things that should last forever should be documented somewhere
(project repos, governance repo in the TC case) where we can actually monitor
what goes in and easily clean up.


This is a complete tangent, but I'll bite :) We had a thorough
discussion about that last year, summarized at:

http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-June/096481.html

TL,DR; was that while most authoritative content should (and has been
mostly) moved off the wiki, it's still useful as a cheap publication
platform for teams and workgroups, somewhere between a git repository
with a docs job and an etherpad.

FWIW the job of migrating authoritative things off the wiki is still
on-going. As an example, Thingee is spearheading the effort to move the
"How to Contribute" page and other first pointers to a reference website
(see recent thread about that).


I guess the short answer is that we hope one day we won't need it. I certainly
do.

What would happen if we make the wiki read-only? Would that break peopl's
workflow?

Do we know what teams modify the wiki more often and what it is they do there?

Thanks for biting :)
Flavio

--
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco


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Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tc] Wiki (was: How to deal with confusion around "hosted projects")

2017-07-03 Thread Thierry Carrez 
Flavio Percoco wrote:
> Sometimes I wonder if we still need to maintain a Wiki. I guess some
> projects still use it but I wonder if the use they make of the Wiki could be 
> moved
> somewhere else.
> 
> For example, in the TC we use it for the Agenda but I think that could be 
> moved
> to an etherpad. Things that should last forever should be documented somewhere
> (project repos, governance repo in the TC case) where we can actually monitor
> what goes in and easily clean up.

This is a complete tangent, but I'll bite :) We had a thorough
discussion about that last year, summarized at:

http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-June/096481.html

TL,DR; was that while most authoritative content should (and has been
mostly) moved off the wiki, it's still useful as a cheap publication
platform for teams and workgroups, somewhere between a git repository
with a docs job and an etherpad.

FWIW the job of migrating authoritative things off the wiki is still
on-going. As an example, Thingee is spearheading the effort to move the
"How to Contribute" page and other first pointers to a reference website
(see recent thread about that).

-- 
Thierry Carrez (ttx)



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