Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?-- Great idea Angus!
Angus, Makes sense. We need to make the process of being able to provide user experience feedback a pleasant user experience in itselt :-). I went to https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Application_Ecosystem_Working_Group but could not see an easy way to provide feedback from this page. Thanks, Brad Brad Topol, Ph.D. IBM Distinguished Engineer OpenStack (919) 543-0646 Internet: bto...@us.ibm.com Assistant: Kendra Witherspoon (919) 254-0680 From: Angus Salkeld asalk...@mirantis.com To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 10/26/2014 07:20 AM Subject:Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?-- Great idea Angus! On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Brad Topol bto...@us.ibm.com wrote: +100! Angus this is awesome!!! Anyway to get one of these for each project? Anyone can make an etherpad, but as Tim suggested I think we need to work with the Application Ecosystem WG to do this in a consistent way. I'll look into doing that. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Application_Ecosystem_Working_Group -Angus Thanks, Brad Brad Topol, Ph.D. IBM Distinguished Engineer OpenStack (919) 543-0646 Internet: bto...@us.ibm.com Assistant: Kendra Witherspoon (919) 254-0680 From:Sandy Walsh sandy.wa...@rackspace.com To:OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date:10/24/2014 09:46 AM Subject:Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users? Nice work Angus ... great idea. Would love to see more of this. -S From: Angus Salkeld [asalk...@mirantis.com] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 1:32 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users? Hi all I have felt some grumblings about usability issues with Heat templates/client/etc.. and wanted a way that users could come and give us feedback easily (low barrier). I started an etherpad ( https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements) - the first win is it is spelt wrong :-O We now have some great feedback there in a very short time, most of this we should be able to solve. This lead me to think, should OpenStack have a more general mechanism for users to provide feedback. The idea is this is not for bugs or support, but for users to express pain points, requests for features and docs/howtos. It's not easy to improve your software unless you are listening to your users. Ideas? -Angus___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?-- Great idea Angus!
On 2014-10-27 10:39:02 -0400 (-0400), Brad Topol wrote: Makes sense. We need to make the process of being able to provide user experience feedback a pleasant user experience in itselt :-). I went to https: //wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Application_Ecosystem_Working_Group but could not see an easy way to provide feedback from this page. Perhaps a link to https://www.openstack.org/user-survey from there would be appropriate? -- Jeremy Stanley ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?-- Great idea Angus!
On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Brad Topol bto...@us.ibm.com wrote: +100! Angus this is awesome!!! Anyway to get one of these for each project? Anyone can make an etherpad, but as Tim suggested I think we need to work with the Application Ecosystem WG to do this in a consistent way. I'll look into doing that. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Application_Ecosystem_Working_Group -Angus Thanks, Brad Brad Topol, Ph.D. IBM Distinguished Engineer OpenStack (919) 543-0646 Internet: bto...@us.ibm.com Assistant: Kendra Witherspoon (919) 254-0680 From:Sandy Walsh sandy.wa...@rackspace.com To:OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date:10/24/2014 09:46 AM Subject:Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users? -- Nice work Angus ... great idea. Would love to see more of this. -S -- *From:* Angus Salkeld [asalk...@mirantis.com] * Sent:* Friday, October 24, 2014 1:32 AM * To:* OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) * Subject:* [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users? Hi all I have felt some grumblings about usability issues with Heat templates/client/etc.. and wanted a way that users could come and give us feedback easily (low barrier). I started an etherpad ( *https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements* https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements) - the first win is it is spelt wrong :-O We now have some great feedback there in a very short time, most of this we should be able to solve. This lead me to think, should OpenStack have a more general mechanism for users to provide feedback. The idea is this is not for bugs or support, but for users to express pain points, requests for features and docs/howtos. It's not easy to improve your software unless you are listening to your users. Ideas? -Angus___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?
Hi Angus, quite a noble intent, one that requires lots of attempts like this you have started. On 10/23/2014 09:32 PM, Angus Salkeld wrote: I have felt some grumblings about usability issues with Heat templates/client/etc.. and wanted a way that users could come and give us feedback easily (low barrier). I started an etherpad (https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements) - the first win is it is spelt wrong :-O :) We now have some great feedback there in a very short time, most of this we should be able to solve. This lead me to think, should OpenStack have a more general mechanism for users to provide feedback. The idea is this is not for bugs or support, but for users to express pain points, requests for features and docs/howtos. One place to start is to pay attention to what happens on the operators mailing list. Posting this message there would probably help since lots of users hang out there. In Paris there will be another operators mini-summit, the fourth IIRC, one every 3 months more or less (I can't find the details at the moment, I assume they'll be published soon -- Ideas are being collected on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAR-ops-meetup). Another effort to close this 'feedback loop' is the new working group temporarily named 'influencers' that will meet in Paris for the first time: https://openstacksummitnovember2014paris.sched.org/event/268a9853812c22ca8d0636b9d8f0c831 It's great to see lots of efforts going in the same direction. Keep 'em coming. /stef -- Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.org wrote: Hi Angus, quite a noble intent, one that requires lots of attempts like this you have started. On 10/23/2014 09:32 PM, Angus Salkeld wrote: I have felt some grumblings about usability issues with Heat templates/client/etc.. and wanted a way that users could come and give us feedback easily (low barrier). I started an etherpad (https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements) - the first win is it is spelt wrong :-O :) We now have some great feedback there in a very short time, most of this we should be able to solve. This lead me to think, should OpenStack have a more general mechanism for users to provide feedback. The idea is this is not for bugs or support, but for users to express pain points, requests for features and docs/howtos. One place to start is to pay attention to what happens on the operators mailing list. Posting this message there would probably help since lots of users hang out there. In Paris there will be another operators mini-summit, the fourth IIRC, one every 3 months more or less (I can't find the details at the moment, I assume they'll be published soon -- Ideas are being collected on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAR-ops-meetup). Thanks for those pointers, we very interested in feedback from operators, but in this case I am talking more about end users not operators (people that actually use our API). -Angus Another effort to close this 'feedback loop' is the new working group temporarily named 'influencers' that will meet in Paris for the first time: https://openstacksummitnovember2014paris.sched.org/event/268a9853812c22ca8d0636b9d8f0c831 It's great to see lots of efforts going in the same direction. Keep 'em coming. /stef -- Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?
Angus, There are two groups which may be relevant regarding ‘consumers’ of Heat -Application eco system working group at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Application_Ecosystem_Working_Group -API working group at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/API_Working_Group There are some discussions planned as part of the breakouts in the Kilo design summit (http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/) So, there are frameworks in place and we would welcome volunteers to help advance these in a consistent way across the OpenStack programs. Tim From: Angus Salkeld [mailto:asalk...@mirantis.com] Sent: 24 October 2014 08:16 To: Stefano Maffulli Cc: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users? On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.orgmailto:stef...@openstack.org wrote: Hi Angus, quite a noble intent, one that requires lots of attempts like this you have started. On 10/23/2014 09:32 PM, Angus Salkeld wrote: I have felt some grumblings about usability issues with Heat templates/client/etc.. and wanted a way that users could come and give us feedback easily (low barrier). I started an etherpad (https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements) - the first win is it is spelt wrong :-O :) We now have some great feedback there in a very short time, most of this we should be able to solve. This lead me to think, should OpenStack have a more general mechanism for users to provide feedback. The idea is this is not for bugs or support, but for users to express pain points, requests for features and docs/howtos. One place to start is to pay attention to what happens on the operators mailing list. Posting this message there would probably help since lots of users hang out there. In Paris there will be another operators mini-summit, the fourth IIRC, one every 3 months more or less (I can't find the details at the moment, I assume they'll be published soon -- Ideas are being collected on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAR-ops-meetup). Thanks for those pointers, we very interested in feedback from operators, but in this case I am talking more about end users not operators (people that actually use our API). -Angus Another effort to close this 'feedback loop' is the new working group temporarily named 'influencers' that will meet in Paris for the first time: https://openstacksummitnovember2014paris.sched.org/event/268a9853812c22ca8d0636b9d8f0c831 It's great to see lots of efforts going in the same direction. Keep 'em coming. /stef -- Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?
Terrific idea! So what happens with the feedback you receive? I am, of course, most interested in issues that might help us improve the documentation, of course, but it's a general question about how this information flows to the Product Engineering team. meg On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 11:46 PM, Tim Bell tim.b...@cern.ch wrote: Angus, There are two groups which may be relevant regarding ‘consumers’ of Heat -Application eco system working group at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Application_Ecosystem_Working_Group -API working group at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/API_Working_Group There are some discussions planned as part of the breakouts in the Kilo design summit (http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/) So, there are frameworks in place and we would welcome volunteers to help advance these in a consistent way across the OpenStack programs. Tim *From:* Angus Salkeld [mailto:asalk...@mirantis.com] *Sent:* 24 October 2014 08:16 *To:* Stefano Maffulli *Cc:* OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) *Subject:* Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users? On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.org wrote: Hi Angus, quite a noble intent, one that requires lots of attempts like this you have started. On 10/23/2014 09:32 PM, Angus Salkeld wrote: I have felt some grumblings about usability issues with Heat templates/client/etc.. and wanted a way that users could come and give us feedback easily (low barrier). I started an etherpad (https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements) - the first win is it is spelt wrong :-O :) We now have some great feedback there in a very short time, most of this we should be able to solve. This lead me to think, should OpenStack have a more general mechanism for users to provide feedback. The idea is this is not for bugs or support, but for users to express pain points, requests for features and docs/howtos. One place to start is to pay attention to what happens on the operators mailing list. Posting this message there would probably help since lots of users hang out there. In Paris there will be another operators mini-summit, the fourth IIRC, one every 3 months more or less (I can't find the details at the moment, I assume they'll be published soon -- Ideas are being collected on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/PAR-ops-meetup). Thanks for those pointers, we very interested in feedback from operators, but in this case I am talking more about end users not operators (people that actually use our API). -Angus Another effort to close this 'feedback loop' is the new working group temporarily named 'influencers' that will meet in Paris for the first time: https://openstacksummitnovember2014paris.sched.org/event/268a9853812c22ca8d0636b9d8f0c831 It's great to see lots of efforts going in the same direction. Keep 'em coming. /stef -- Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?
Nice work Angus ... great idea. Would love to see more of this. -S From: Angus Salkeld [asalk...@mirantis.com] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 1:32 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users? Hi all I have felt some grumblings about usability issues with Heat templates/client/etc.. and wanted a way that users could come and give us feedback easily (low barrier). I started an etherpad (https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements) - the first win is it is spelt wrong :-O We now have some great feedback there in a very short time, most of this we should be able to solve. This lead me to think, should OpenStack have a more general mechanism for users to provide feedback. The idea is this is not for bugs or support, but for users to express pain points, requests for features and docs/howtos. It's not easy to improve your software unless you are listening to your users. Ideas? -Angus ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?-- Great idea Angus!
+100! Angus this is awesome!!! Anyway to get one of these for each project? Thanks, Brad Brad Topol, Ph.D. IBM Distinguished Engineer OpenStack (919) 543-0646 Internet: bto...@us.ibm.com Assistant: Kendra Witherspoon (919) 254-0680 From: Sandy Walsh sandy.wa...@rackspace.com To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 10/24/2014 09:46 AM Subject:Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users? Nice work Angus ... great idea. Would love to see more of this. -S From: Angus Salkeld [asalk...@mirantis.com] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 1:32 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users? Hi all I have felt some grumblings about usability issues with Heat templates/client/etc.. and wanted a way that users could come and give us feedback easily (low barrier). I started an etherpad ( https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements) - the first win is it is spelt wrong :-O We now have some great feedback there in a very short time, most of this we should be able to solve. This lead me to think, should OpenStack have a more general mechanism for users to provide feedback. The idea is this is not for bugs or support, but for users to express pain points, requests for features and docs/howtos. It's not easy to improve your software unless you are listening to your users. Ideas? -Angus___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?
On 10/23/2014 11:16 PM, Angus Salkeld wrote: Thanks for those pointers, we very interested in feedback from operators, but in this case I am talking more about end users not operators (people that actually use our API). Great! There is a working group being formed also for that. I would suggest you to put these sessions in your calendar: http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/event/f8f76884ce1d7fb7a39f3f6c2f1bb3d4 http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/event/57f6fc4f2ffd0cc47b216f7bf936c115 /stef -- Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 11:09 AM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.org wrote: On 10/23/2014 11:16 PM, Angus Salkeld wrote: Thanks for those pointers, we very interested in feedback from operators, but in this case I am talking more about end users not operators (people that actually use our API). Great! There is a working group being formed also for that. I would suggest you to put these sessions in your calendar: http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/event/f8f76884ce1d7fb7a39f3f6c2f1bb3d4 http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/event/57f6fc4f2ffd0cc47b216f7bf936c115 Another relevant one is my Developer Support session: https://openstacksummitnovember2014paris.sched.org/event/792d87161d517ca27ce1b212c06d695d Monday November 3, 2014 11:40 - 12:20 Room 242AB I've been gathering data from SDK issues on github, Stack Overflow, ask.openstack.org, API doc comments, and other sources to share what it's like to support developers using OpenStack APIs and related tooling. It's really interesting info! Some of it you'd already guess (hint: MOAR DOCS) but some of it surprised me but probably shouldn't have (everyone wants measurements). See you there, Anne /stef -- Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?
Angus Salkeld asalk...@mirantis.com wrote on 10/24/2014 12:32:04 AM: I have felt some grumblings about usability issues with Heat templates/client/etc.. and wanted a way that users could come and give us feedback easily (low barrier). I started an etherpad (https:// etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements) - the first win is it is spelt wrong :-O We now have some great feedback there in a very short time, most of this we should be able to solve. This lead me to think, should OpenStack have a more general mechanism for users to provide feedback. The idea is this is not for bugs or support, but for users to express pain points, requests for features and docs/howtos. It's not easy to improve your software unless you are listening to your users. Ideas? I very much agree with this. I am actually surprised that OpenStack does not have something fairly formal and organized about this. I suppose it is part of the TC's job, but I think we need more than they can do. I would suggest some sort of user's council that gets involved in blueprint and change reviews. Perhaps after first working toward some degree of consensus and some degree of shaping what the developers work on in each release (this latter is part of the overall program of improving review queue speed, by better focusing developers and reviewers on some shared agenda). Other products have discussion fora, some explicitly dedicated to feedback. You could approximate this with etherpads, or use some real discussion forum platform. Regards, Mike___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users?
There is a formal structure via the OpenStack user committee and the associated working groups (https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/UserCommittee). We have Monday afternoon and all of Thursday in the summit time dedicated to discussions. The specs review process was prepared with the TC to allow easy ways for deployers and consumers of OpenStack to give input before code gets written. Further volunteers and suggestions on how to improve the process in this area would be more than welcome in the design summit tracks around the Ops summit and working groups. Please see http://kilodesignsummit.sched.org/. Tim From: Mike Spreitzer [mailto:mspre...@us.ibm.com] Sent: 24 October 2014 07:05 To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [all] How can we get more feedback from users? Angus Salkeld asalk...@mirantis.commailto:asalk...@mirantis.com wrote on 10/24/2014 12:32:04 AM: I have felt some grumblings about usability issues with Heat templates/client/etc.. and wanted a way that users could come and give us feedback easily (low barrier). I started an etherpad (https:// etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements) - the first win is it is spelt wrong :-O We now have some great feedback there in a very short time, most of this we should be able to solve. This lead me to think, should OpenStack have a more general mechanism for users to provide feedback. The idea is this is not for bugs or support, but for users to express pain points, requests for features and docs/howtos. It's not easy to improve your software unless you are listening to your users. Ideas? I very much agree with this. I am actually surprised that OpenStack does not have something fairly formal and organized about this. I suppose it is part of the TC's job, but I think we need more than they can do. I would suggest some sort of user's council that gets involved in blueprint and change reviews. Perhaps after first working toward some degree of consensus and some degree of shaping what the developers work on in each release (this latter is part of the overall program of improving review queue speed, by better focusing developers and reviewers on some shared agenda). Other products have discussion fora, some explicitly dedicated to feedback. You could approximate this with etherpads, or use some real discussion forum platform. Regards, Mike ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
