Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic][docs] I see, you see, we all see red*

[Loo, Ruby]

Hi,

In case folks wonder what happened, I submitted a patch [1] to change it to 
black :)

--ruby

[1] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/505348/


From: Ruby Loo <opensr...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Date: Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 11:19 AM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" 
<openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic][docs] I see, you see, we all see red*

Hi Alex,

Sorry, I don't know much about the docs stuff; Andreas' links were useful for 
enlightening me.

Clearly, I'm biased and would prefer no difference in colour. What about that 
(darker?) blue from [0], where it sez (I'm referring to the upper-cased words 
here) 'Modern color theory uses either the ... RED-CYAN, GREEN-MAGENTA, 
BLUE-YELLOW'. Would that blue clash with the blue you are mentioning? (Well, 
maybe it is the bold + blue that I like, not just the blue.)

I don't really think a complementary colour is good, orange is marginally 
better than red. I'd like it to be highlighted but I guess I like subtle, not 
strong.

Having said all that, I'm a reader/viewer of these documents and this is *just* 
my opinion. It seems to me that there might be research into what works best? 
Anyone know?

Thanks,
--ruby

On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 6:19 AM, Alexandra Settle 
<a.set...@outlook.com<mailto:a.set...@outlook.com>> wrote:
Hey Ruby!

Good point – thanks for bringing it up :)

I was brought up to think that red was one of those colours that people had 
different (and sometimes really negative) associations with. When I look at our 
latest and greatest! ironic documentation (e.g. [1]), I see red. Not only do I 
see red, but the term has a different background colour and is bordered (or 
whatever it is called). Are we using the wrong .rst syntax, should we be 
highlighting terms differently? And/or is there some way to change the 
appearance of highlighted terms? I much prefer something simple, like bold 
black text in some uniform font. On the other hand, perhaps lots of others like 
this and I'm in the minority.

Andreas is right – the red definitely correct, and this is how we have always 
done it in manuals. But that doesn’t mean we have to continue. We just need to 
come up with another strong, inoffensive colour that matches; I believe the red 
was chosen to simply contrast the blue. A compromise, and complementary 
colour[0], would be orange. How would you feel about this?

I hesitated about sending this due to the wonderful bike shedding that could 
happen, don't disappoint me, cuz I'm sure we all have opinions about colour. :)

Not going to lie, also afraid of all the bike shedding! But you bring up a good 
point – and I don’t want others to also feel negatively about our 
documentation. We should be as inclusive as we can.

Also, this email thread isn't about discussing the green and orange colours 
used for the code blocks; feel free to start your own thread about that if you 
want!

No thanks, if I can avoid it :P

Cheers,

Alex

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_colors

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Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic][docs] I see, you see, we all see red*

[milanisko k]

čt 24. 8. 2017 v 12:19 odesílatel Alexandra Settle 
napsal:

> Hey Ruby!
>
>
>
> Good point – thanks for bringing it up :)
>
>
>
> I was brought up to think that red was one of those colours that people
> had different (and sometimes really negative) associations with. When I
> look at our latest and greatest! ironic documentation (e.g. [1]), I see
> red. Not only do I see red, but the term has a different background colour
> and is bordered (or whatever it is called). Are we using the wrong .rst
> syntax, should we be highlighting terms differently? And/or is there some
> way to change the appearance of highlighted terms? I much prefer something
> simple, like bold black text in some uniform font. On the other hand,
> perhaps lots of others like this and I'm in the minority.
>
>
>
> Andreas is right – the red definitely correct, and this is how we have
> always done it in manuals. But that doesn’t mean we have to continue. We
> just need to come up with another strong, inoffensive colour that matches;
> I believe the red was chosen to simply contrast the blue. A compromise, and
> complementary colour[0], would be orange. How would you feel about this?
>
>
There are places in the documentation, such as API evolution changelogs
,
where the coloured items accumulate heavily. I'm afraid replacing red terms
with orange won't help reduce the visual clutter there. On the other hand I
understand why the ladybug is red.



>
>
> I hesitated about sending this due to the wonderful bike shedding that
> could happen, don't disappoint me, cuz I'm sure we all have opinions about
> colour. :)
>
>
>
> Not going to lie, also afraid of all the bike shedding! But you bring up a
> good point – and I don’t want others to also feel negatively about our
> documentation. We should be as inclusive as we can.
>
>
>
> Also, this email thread isn't about discussing the green and orange
> colours used for the code blocks; feel free to start your own thread about
> that if you want!
>
>
>
> No thanks, if I can avoid it :P
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_colors
> __
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> Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic][docs] I see, you see, we all see red*

[Ruby Loo]

Hi Alex,

Sorry, I don't know much about the docs stuff; Andreas' links were useful
for enlightening me.

Clearly, I'm biased and would prefer no difference in colour. What about
that (darker?) blue from [0], where it sez (I'm referring to the
upper-cased words here) 'Modern color theory uses either the ... RED-CYAN,
GREEN-MAGENTA, BLUE-YELLOW'. Would that blue clash with the blue you are
mentioning? (Well, maybe it is the bold + blue that I like, not just the
blue.)

I don't really think a complementary colour is good, orange is marginally
better than red. I'd like it to be highlighted but I guess I like subtle,
not strong.

Having said all that, I'm a reader/viewer of these documents and this is
*just* my opinion. It seems to me that there might be research into what
works best? Anyone know?

Thanks,
--ruby

On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 6:19 AM, Alexandra Settle 
wrote:

> Hey Ruby!
>
>
>
> Good point – thanks for bringing it up :)
>
>
>
> I was brought up to think that red was one of those colours that people
> had different (and sometimes really negative) associations with. When I
> look at our latest and greatest! ironic documentation (e.g. [1]), I see
> red. Not only do I see red, but the term has a different background colour
> and is bordered (or whatever it is called). Are we using the wrong .rst
> syntax, should we be highlighting terms differently? And/or is there some
> way to change the appearance of highlighted terms? I much prefer something
> simple, like bold black text in some uniform font. On the other hand,
> perhaps lots of others like this and I'm in the minority.
>
>
>
> Andreas is right – the red definitely correct, and this is how we have
> always done it in manuals. But that doesn’t mean we have to continue. We
> just need to come up with another strong, inoffensive colour that matches;
> I believe the red was chosen to simply contrast the blue. A compromise, and
> complementary colour[0], would be orange. How would you feel about this?
>
>
>
> I hesitated about sending this due to the wonderful bike shedding that
> could happen, don't disappoint me, cuz I'm sure we all have opinions about
> colour. :)
>
>
>
> Not going to lie, also afraid of all the bike shedding! But you bring up a
> good point – and I don’t want others to also feel negatively about our
> documentation. We should be as inclusive as we can.
>
>
>
> Also, this email thread isn't about discussing the green and orange
> colours used for the code blocks; feel free to start your own thread about
> that if you want!
>
>
>
> No thanks, if I can avoid it :P
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_colors
>
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> Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic][docs] I see, you see, we all see red*

[Alexandra Settle]

Hey Ruby!

Good point – thanks for bringing it up :)

I was brought up to think that red was one of those colours that people had 
different (and sometimes really negative) associations with. When I look at our 
latest and greatest! ironic documentation (e.g. [1]), I see red. Not only do I 
see red, but the term has a different background colour and is bordered (or 
whatever it is called). Are we using the wrong .rst syntax, should we be 
highlighting terms differently? And/or is there some way to change the 
appearance of highlighted terms? I much prefer something simple, like bold 
black text in some uniform font. On the other hand, perhaps lots of others like 
this and I'm in the minority.

Andreas is right – the red definitely correct, and this is how we have always 
done it in manuals. But that doesn’t mean we have to continue. We just need to 
come up with another strong, inoffensive colour that matches; I believe the red 
was chosen to simply contrast the blue. A compromise, and complementary 
colour[0], would be orange. How would you feel about this?

I hesitated about sending this due to the wonderful bike shedding that could 
happen, don't disappoint me, cuz I'm sure we all have opinions about colour. :)

Not going to lie, also afraid of all the bike shedding! But you bring up a good 
point – and I don’t want others to also feel negatively about our 
documentation. We should be as inclusive as we can.

Also, this email thread isn't about discussing the green and orange colours 
used for the code blocks; feel free to start your own thread about that if you 
want!

No thanks, if I can avoid it :P

Cheers,

Alex

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_colors
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Re: [openstack-dev] [ironic][docs] I see, you see, we all see red*

[Andreas Jaeger]

On 2017-08-23 18:30,  Loo, Ruby  wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>  
> 
> I was brought up to think that red was one of those colours that people
> had different (and sometimes really negative) associations with. When I
> look at our latest and greatest! ironic documentation (e.g. [1]), I see
> red. Not only do I see red, but the term has a different background
> colour and is bordered (or whatever it is called). Are we using the
> wrong .rst syntax, should we be highlighting terms differently? And/or
> is there some way to change the appearance of highlighted terms? I much
> prefer something simple, like bold black text in some uniform font. On
> the other hand, perhaps lots of others like this and I'm in the minority.
> 

Looking at your source code, your html, and at
https://docs.openstack.org/contributor-guide/rst-conv/inline-markups.html
- the red is the expected color by the openstackdocstheme.

See also https://docs.openstack.org/openstackdocstheme/latest/


> I can handle the Warnings that are in red though. (I'm not sure it is
> necesary, given that it is all in a BOX with a WARNING SYMBOL.)
> 
>  
> 
> I hesitated about sending this due to the wonderful bike shedding that
> could happen, don't disappoint me, cuz I'm sure we all have opinions
> about colour. :)

Sure, we all have opinions. I think the best way to avoid a bike shed is
a change that proposes a better colouring scheme. Even is red there
since the beginning of the theme - so now for 2.5 years - the docs team
takes changes to have less colour issues ;)

Andreas
-- 
 Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi
  SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
   GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton,
   HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F  FED1 389A 563C C272 A126


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[openstack-dev] [ironic][docs] I see, you see, we all see red*

[Loo, Ruby]

Hi,

I was brought up to think that red was one of those colours that people had 
different (and sometimes really negative) associations with. When I look at our 
latest and greatest! ironic documentation (e.g. [1]), I see red. Not only do I 
see red, but the term has a different background colour and is bordered (or 
whatever it is called). Are we using the wrong .rst syntax, should we be 
highlighting terms differently? And/or is there some way to change the 
appearance of highlighted terms? I much prefer something simple, like bold 
black text in some uniform font. On the other hand, perhaps lots of others like 
this and I'm in the minority.

I can handle the Warnings that are in red though. (I'm not sure it is necesary, 
given that it is all in a BOX with a WARNING SYMBOL.)

I hesitated about sending this due to the wonderful bike shedding that could 
happen, don't disappoint me, cuz I'm sure we all have opinions about colour. :)

Also, this email thread isn't about discussing the green and orange colours 
used for the code blocks; feel free to start your own thread about that if you 
want!

Thanks for listening,
--ruby

*unless you're colour blind

[1] https://docs.openstack.org/ironic/latest/install/enabling-drivers.html
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