On 2016-05-06 10:25:41 -0400 (-0400), Doug Hellmann wrote:
> Excerpts from Tony Breeds's message of 2016-05-06 09:53:11 +1000:
[...]
> > I think some of these pro-active things will be key. A quick
> > check shows we have nearly 30 items in g-r that don't seem to be
> > used by anything. So there
On 6 May 2016 at 15:25, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>
> Someone had a tool that looked at second-order dependencies, I think. I
> can't find the reference in my notes, but maybe someone else has it
> handy?
>
I don't have a specific tool handy, but I'm guessing that we could cludge
something together t
Excerpts from Tony Breeds's message of 2016-05-06 09:53:11 +1000:
> On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 02:35:46PM -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>
> > This has been a lively thread, and the summit session was similarly
> > animated. I'm glad to see so much interest in managing our dependencies!
> >
> > As we d
On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 02:35:46PM -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> This has been a lively thread, and the summit session was similarly
> animated. I'm glad to see so much interest in managing our dependencies!
>
> As we discussed at the summit, my primary objective with dependency
> management this
On Thu, May 05, 2016 at 04:18:08PM -0400, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> prometheanfire,
>
> I'll get the ball rolling next week. i.e, schedule a meeting, get
> started on writing down what we do usually for vetting requirements
> changes etc.
Please try to set this for a time that isn't terrible for
List (not for usage questions)
>
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [release][requirements][packaging][summit]
> input needed on summit discussion about global requirements
>
> > Well, I'm more in favor having it as a sub-team of release mgmt team.
>
> I have to agree.
>
Excerpts from Davanum Srinivas (dims)'s message of 2016-05-05 16:18:08 -0400:
> prometheanfire,
>
> I'll get the ball rolling next week. i.e, schedule a meeting, get
> started on writing down what we do usually for vetting requirements
> changes etc.
Thanks, Dims!
Doug
>
> Thanks,
> Dims
>
>
-Original Message-
From: Haïkel
Reply: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Date: May 5, 2016 at 15:25:08
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [release][requirements][packaging][summit] input
needed
Well, I'm more in favor having it as a sub-team of release mgmt team.
H,
__
OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
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On 05/05/2016 03:18 PM, Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> prometheanfire,
>
> I'll get the ball rolling next week. i.e, schedule a meeting, get
> started on writing down what we do usually for vetting requirements
> changes etc.
>
> Thanks,
> Dims
Thanks, it's nice to have just from a planning perspecti
prometheanfire,
I'll get the ball rolling next week. i.e, schedule a meeting, get
started on writing down what we do usually for vetting requirements
changes etc.
Thanks,
Dims
On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 4:13 PM, Matthew Thode wrote:
> On 05/05/2016 01:35 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>> This has been a
On 05/05/2016 01:35 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> This has been a lively thread, and the summit session was similarly
> animated. I'm glad to see so much interest in managing our dependencies!
>
> As we discussed at the summit, my primary objective with dependency
> management this cycle is actually
Excerpts from Doug Hellmann's message of 2016-04-17 11:13:15 -0400:
> I am organizing a summit session for the cross-project track to
> (re)consider how we manage our list of global dependencies [1].
> Some of the changes I propose would have a big impact, and so I
> want to ensure everyone doing p
On 2016-04-21 14:05:17 +1200 (+1200), Robert Collins wrote:
> On 20 April 2016 at 03:00, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
[...]
> > When we were firming up the constraints idea in Vancouver, if my
> > memory is correct (which it quite often is not these days), part of
> > the long tail Robert suggested was t
On Wed, Apr 20, 2016, at 08:44 PM, Tony Breeds wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 02:09:24PM +1200, Robert Collins wrote:
>
> > I also argued at the time that we should aim for entirely automated
> > check-and-update. This has stalled on not figuring out how to run e.g.
> > Neutron unit tests agains
On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 02:09:24PM +1200, Robert Collins wrote:
> I also argued at the time that we should aim for entirely automated
> check-and-update. This has stalled on not figuring out how to run e.g.
> Neutron unit tests against requirements changes - our coverage is just
> too low at the m
On 18 April 2016 at 03:13, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> I am organizing a summit session for the cross-project track to
> (re)consider how we manage our list of global dependencies [1].
> Some of the changes I propose would have a big impact, and so I
> want to ensure everyone doing packaging work for d
On 20 April 2016 at 05:44, Clint Byrum wrote:
> Excerpts from Michał Jastrzębski's message of 2016-04-18 10:29:20 -0700:
>> What I meant is if you have liberty Nova and liberty Cinder, and you
>> want to upgrade Nova to Mitaka, you also upgrade Oslo to Mitaka and
>> Cinder which was liberty either
On 20 April 2016 at 04:47, Clark Boylan wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 08:14 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>> Excerpts from Jeremy Stanley's message of 2016-04-19 15:00:24 +:
>> > On 2016-04-19 09:10:11 -0400 (-0400), Doug Hellmann wrote:
>> > [...]
>> > > We have the global list and the upper c
On 20 April 2016 at 03:00, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> On 2016-04-19 09:10:11 -0400 (-0400), Doug Hellmann wrote:
> [...]
>> We have the global list and the upper constraints list, and both
>> are intended to be used to signal to packaging folks what we think
>> ought to be used. I'm glad that signali
tl;dr: You're right, but the point I was making was that all distros are
understaff.
Longer version:
On 04/19/2016 06:24 PM, Ian Cordasco wrote:
>> You can also add "Ubuntu" in the list here, as absolutely all OpenStack
>> dependencies are maintained mostly by me, within Debian, and then later
>
On 2016-04-19 11:30:38 -0500 (-0500), Ian Cordasco wrote:
[...]
> I've argued with different downstream distributors about their own
> judgment of what portions of the patch to apply in order to fix an
> issue with an assigned CVE. It took much longer than should have
> been necessary in at least o
Stack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) <
> openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [release][requirements][packaging][summit]
> input needed on summit discussion about global requirements
>
> > Hi Doug,
> >
> > I ve
Fox, Kevin M wrote:
Thomas,
I normally side with the distro's take on making sure there is no duplication,
but I think Thierry's point comes from two differences coming up that the
traditional distro's don't tend to account for.
(and to be fair, I normally side with the distro's take too...
On 04/19/2016 03:10 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>> On your etherpad, you wrote:
>>
>> "During the lead-up to preparing the final releases, one of the tracking
>> tasks we have is to ensure all projects have synced their global
>> requirements updates. This is another area where we could reduce the
>>
elopment Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [release][requirements][packaging][summit] input
needed on summit discussion about global requirements
On 04/19/2016 11:48 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>> Remember that in distros, there's only a single version of a li
Ah! Now we're getting right on the spot, where it hurts, and we're
finding the root cause. That's a very good thing. Let's dig ! :)
On 04/19/2016 05:26 PM, Chris Dent wrote:
> I, in project A, don't want to limit my requirements because project B
> has not yet upgraded itself to be able to use the
On 04/19/2016 11:48 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>> Remember that in distros, there's only a single version of a library at
>> any given time, at the exception of transitions (yes, in Red Hat it's
>> technically possible to install multiple versions, but the policy
>> strongly advocates against this).
On 2016-04-19 16:10:12 +0100 (+0100), Chris Dent wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
[...]
> > I feel like many of the people pushing this idea simply didn't
> > get to experience the pain it causes the first time around and
> > won't believe their peers who lived through it.
>
> I
Excerpts from Thomas Goirand's message of 2016-04-19 05:59:19 -0700:
> On 04/19/2016 01:01 PM, Chris Dent wrote:
> > We also, however, need to consider what the future might look like and
> > at least for some people and situations
>
> I agree.
>
> > the future does not involve
> > debs or rpms o
On 04/19/2016 12:44 PM, Clint Byrum wrote:
> Excerpts from Michał Jastrzębski's message of 2016-04-18 10:29:20 -0700:
>> What I meant is if you have liberty Nova and liberty Cinder, and you
>> want to upgrade Nova to Mitaka, you also upgrade Oslo to Mitaka and
>> Cinder which was liberty either nee
Excerpts from Matthew Thode's message of 2016-04-18 11:22:38 -0700:
> On 04/18/2016 12:33 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> > Excerpts from Matthew Thode's message of 2016-04-18 10:23:37 -0500:
> >> On 04/18/2016 08:24 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote:
> >>> On 18/04/2016 13:51, Sean Dague wrote:
> On 04/18/2
Excerpts from Michał Jastrzębski's message of 2016-04-18 10:29:20 -0700:
> What I meant is if you have liberty Nova and liberty Cinder, and you
> want to upgrade Nova to Mitaka, you also upgrade Oslo to Mitaka and
> Cinder which was liberty either needs to be upgraded or is broken,
> therefore duri
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016, at 08:14 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> Excerpts from Jeremy Stanley's message of 2016-04-19 15:00:24 +:
> > On 2016-04-19 09:10:11 -0400 (-0400), Doug Hellmann wrote:
> > [...]
> > > We have the global list and the upper constraints list, and both
> > > are intended to be use
On 04/19/2016 11:30 AM, Ian Cordasco wrote:
>> On 2016-04-19 14:59:19 +0200 (+0200), Thomas Goirand wrote:
>>> On 04/19/2016 01:01 PM, Chris Dent wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> [...]
> Most users are consuming packages from distributions. Also, if
> you're using c
] input
needed on summit discussion about global requirements
> On 2016-04-19 14:59:19 +0200 (+0200), Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > On 04/19/2016 01:01 PM, Chris Dent wrote:
> > > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> [...]
> > > > Most users are consuming pack
On 04/19/2016 04:48 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> [...]
>> Remember that in distros, there's only a single version of a library at
>> any given time, at the exception of transitions (yes, in Red Hat it's
>> technically possible to install multiple versions, but the policy
>>
] input
needed on summit discussion about global requirements
> Hi Doug,
>
> I very much welcome opening such a thread before the discussion at the
> summit, as often, sessions are too short. Taking the time to write
> things down first also helps having a more constructive discussion.
On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, Thomas Goirand wrote:
On 04/19/2016 01:01 PM, Chris Dent wrote:
Do I expect it all to
happen like I want? No. Do I hope that my concerns will be
integrated in the discussion? Yes.
I fail to see what kind of concerns you have with the current situation.
Could you attempt to
Excerpts from Jeremy Stanley's message of 2016-04-19 15:00:24 +:
> On 2016-04-19 09:10:11 -0400 (-0400), Doug Hellmann wrote:
> [...]
> > We have the global list and the upper constraints list, and both
> > are intended to be used to signal to packaging folks what we think
> > ought to be used.
On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
Could just be that my beard has gotten a little too grey, but I
still very much prefer using stabilized software packaged by
traditional Linux distributions or similar Unix derivatives and
covered under security patched backports. My hope has always bee
On 2016-04-19 09:10:11 -0400 (-0400), Doug Hellmann wrote:
[...]
> We have the global list and the upper constraints list, and both
> are intended to be used to signal to packaging folks what we think
> ought to be used. I'm glad that signaling is working, and maybe
> that means you're right that w
On 2016-04-19 14:59:19 +0200 (+0200), Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 04/19/2016 01:01 PM, Chris Dent wrote:
> > On Tue, 19 Apr 2016, Thomas Goirand wrote:
[...]
> > > Most users are consuming packages from distributions. Also, if
> > > you're using containers, probably you will also prefer using
> > >
Excerpts from Thomas Goirand's message of 2016-04-19 00:19:03 +0200:
> Hi Doug,
>
> I very much welcome opening such a thread before the discussion at the
> summit, as often, sessions are too short. Taking the time to write
> things down first also helps having a more constructive discussion.
Tha
On 04/19/2016 01:01 PM, Chris Dent wrote:
> We also, however, need to consider what the future might look like and
> at least for some people and situations
I agree.
> the future does not involve
> debs or rpms of OpenStack: packages and distributions are more trouble
> than they are worth when y
Excerpts from Thierry Carrez's message of 2016-04-19 11:48:06 +0200:
> Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > [...]
> > From what I understand, the biggesgt problems you're trying to solve is
> > that managing the global-reqs is really time consuming from the release
> > team point of view, and especially its
Thomas, you've made a lot of great points here about the challenges
faced by packaging and packagers of OpenStack. They are valid,
important and need to be considered. I don't want to discount the
work you do because it is awesome, important and I'm well aware that
it can be a huge pain in the as
Thomas Goirand wrote:
[...]
From what I understand, the biggesgt problems you're trying to solve is
that managing the global-reqs is really time consuming from the release
team point of view, and especially its propagation to individual
projects. There's IMO many things that we could do to impro
Hi Doug,
I very much welcome opening such a thread before the discussion at the
summit, as often, sessions are too short. Taking the time to write
things down first also helps having a more constructive discussion.
Before I reply to each individual message below, let me attempt to reply
to the bi
On 04/18/2016 02:10 PM, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> On 2016-04-18 13:58:03 -0500 (-0500), Matthew Thode wrote:
>> Ya, I'd be happy to work more with upstream. I already review the
>> stable-reqs updates and watch them for the stable branches I package
>> for. Not sure what else is needed.
>
> Review
Excerpts from Jeremy Stanley's message of 2016-04-18 19:10:52 +:
> On 2016-04-18 13:58:03 -0500 (-0500), Matthew Thode wrote:
> > Ya, I'd be happy to work more with upstream. I already review the
> > stable-reqs updates and watch them for the stable branches I package
> > for. Not sure what e
On 2016-04-18 13:58:03 -0500 (-0500), Matthew Thode wrote:
> Ya, I'd be happy to work more with upstream. I already review the
> stable-reqs updates and watch them for the stable branches I package
> for. Not sure what else is needed.
Reviewing the master branch openstack/requirements repository
On 04/18/2016 01:40 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> Excerpts from Matthew Thode's message of 2016-04-18 13:22:38 -0500:
>> On 04/18/2016 12:33 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>>> Excerpts from Matthew Thode's message of 2016-04-18 10:23:37 -0500:
On 04/18/2016 08:24 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote:
> On 18/04
Excerpts from Matthew Thode's message of 2016-04-18 13:22:38 -0500:
> On 04/18/2016 12:33 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> > Excerpts from Matthew Thode's message of 2016-04-18 10:23:37 -0500:
> >> On 04/18/2016 08:24 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote:
> >>> On 18/04/2016 13:51, Sean Dague wrote:
> On 04/18/2
Excerpts from Sean Dague's message of 2016-04-18 13:49:31 -0400:
> On 04/18/2016 01:33 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> > Excerpts from Matthew Thode's message of 2016-04-18 10:23:37 -0500:
>
> >> To add to this, I'd also note that I as a packager would likely stop
> >> packaging Openstack at whatever r
On 04/18/2016 12:33 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> Excerpts from Matthew Thode's message of 2016-04-18 10:23:37 -0500:
>> On 04/18/2016 08:24 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote:
>>> On 18/04/2016 13:51, Sean Dague wrote:
On 04/18/2016 08:22 AM, Chris Dent wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, Sean Dague wrote:
>
On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, Sean Dague wrote:
Many (most?) people won't be doing those kinds of installations. If all-in-
one installations are important to the rpm- and deb- based distributions
then _they_ should be resolving the dependency issues local to their own
infrastruc
On 04/18/2016 01:33 PM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> Excerpts from Matthew Thode's message of 2016-04-18 10:23:37 -0500:
>> To add to this, I'd also note that I as a packager would likely stop
>> packaging Openstack at whatever release this goes into. While the
>> option to package and ship a virtualen
Excerpts from Hayes, Graham's message of 2016-04-18 13:24:40 +:
> On 18/04/2016 13:51, Sean Dague wrote:
> > On 04/18/2016 08:22 AM, Chris Dent wrote:
> >> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, Sean Dague wrote:
> >>
> >>> So if you have strong feelings and ideas, why not get them out in email
> >>> now? That w
Excerpts from Matthew Thode's message of 2016-04-18 10:23:37 -0500:
> On 04/18/2016 08:24 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote:
> > On 18/04/2016 13:51, Sean Dague wrote:
> >> On 04/18/2016 08:22 AM, Chris Dent wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, Sean Dague wrote:
> >>>
> So if you have strong feelings and i
What I meant is if you have liberty Nova and liberty Cinder, and you
want to upgrade Nova to Mitaka, you also upgrade Oslo to Mitaka and
Cinder which was liberty either needs to be upgraded or is broken,
therefore during upgrade you need to do cinder and nova at the same
time. DB can be snapshotted
On 04/18/2016 10:57 AM, Michał Jastrzębski wrote:
> So I also want to stress out that shared libraries are huge pain
> during upgrades. While I'm not in favor of packages with embedded
> virtualenvs (as Matt pointed out, this has a lot of issues), having
> shared dependency pool pretty much means t
So I also want to stress out that shared libraries are huge pain
during upgrades. While I'm not in favor of packages with embedded
virtualenvs (as Matt pointed out, this has a lot of issues), having
shared dependency pool pretty much means that you need to upgrade
*everything* that is openstack at
On 04/18/2016 08:24 AM, Hayes, Graham wrote:
> On 18/04/2016 13:51, Sean Dague wrote:
>> On 04/18/2016 08:22 AM, Chris Dent wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, Sean Dague wrote:
>>>
So if you have strong feelings and ideas, why not get them out in email
now? That will help in the framing of t
On 18/04/2016 13:51, Sean Dague wrote:
> On 04/18/2016 08:22 AM, Chris Dent wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, Sean Dague wrote:
>>
>>> So if you have strong feelings and ideas, why not get them out in email
>>> now? That will help in the framing of the conversation.
>>
>> I won't be at summit and I fe
On 04/18/2016 08:22 AM, Chris Dent wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, Sean Dague wrote:
>
>> So if you have strong feelings and ideas, why not get them out in email
>> now? That will help in the framing of the conversation.
>
> I won't be at summit and I feel pretty strongly about this topic, so
> I'l
On Mon, 18 Apr 2016, Sean Dague wrote:
So if you have strong feelings and ideas, why not get them out in email
now? That will help in the framing of the conversation.
I won't be at summit and I feel pretty strongly about this topic, so
I'll throw out my comments:
I agree with the basic premis
On 04/17/2016 11:34 AM, Monty Taylor wrote:
> On 04/17/2016 10:13 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>> I am organizing a summit session for the cross-project track to
>> (re)consider how we manage our list of global dependencies [1].
>> Some of the changes I propose would have a big impact, and so I
>> want
Monty Taylor wrote:
On 04/17/2016 10:13 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
I am organizing a summit session for the cross-project track to
(re)consider how we manage our list of global dependencies [1].
Some of the changes I propose would have a big impact, and so I
want to ensure everyone doing packaging
On 04/17/2016 10:34 AM, Monty Taylor wrote:
> On 04/17/2016 10:13 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>> I am organizing a summit session for the cross-project track to
>> (re)consider how we manage our list of global dependencies [1].
>> Some of the changes I propose would have a big impact, and so I
>> want
Excerpts from Monty Taylor's message of 2016-04-17 10:34:36 -0500:
> On 04/17/2016 10:13 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
> > I am organizing a summit session for the cross-project track to
> > (re)consider how we manage our list of global dependencies [1].
> > Some of the changes I propose would have a bi
On 04/17/2016 10:13 AM, Doug Hellmann wrote:
I am organizing a summit session for the cross-project track to
(re)consider how we manage our list of global dependencies [1].
Some of the changes I propose would have a big impact, and so I
want to ensure everyone doing packaging work for distros is
I am organizing a summit session for the cross-project track to
(re)consider how we manage our list of global dependencies [1].
Some of the changes I propose would have a big impact, and so I
want to ensure everyone doing packaging work for distros is available
for the discussion. Please review the
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