Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
Excerpts from Boris Pavlovic's message of 2013-11-21 00:16:04 -0800: Clint, The main idea is to have processed by human history of project. It is really impossible to aggregate automatically all data from different sources: IRC (main project chat/dev chat/meetings), Mailing Lists, Code, Reviews, Summit discussions, using project specific knowledge and history of the project.To get short messages like here https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates So the idea is that in each project we should have the persons that will aggregate for others all these sources and present really short, high level view of situation. And these messages should be in one place (wiki/or other platform (not mailing lists)) for project. So we will be able quick to get what happens with project for last few months and what are current goals. This will be also very very useful for new contributors. So Aggregation of data is good (and should be done), but it is not enough.. I did not suggest aggregation of data. We have TONS of that, and we don't need more. I suggested a very simple way for project leaders and members to maintain the current story during the meetings. ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
Stefano Maffulli wrote: On 11/19/2013 09:33 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote: The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. I like the idea. I have received requests to include high level summaries from all projects in the weekly newsletter but it's quite impossible for me to do that as I don't have enough understanding of each project to extrapolate the significant news from the noise. [...] This is an interesting point. From various discussions I had with people over the last year, the thing the development community is really really after is weekly technical news that would cover updates from major projects as well as deep dives into new features, tech conference CFPs, etc. The reference in the area (and only example I have) is LWN (lwn.net) and their awesome weekly coverage of what happens in Linux kernel development and beyond. The trick is, such coverage requires editors with a deep technical knowledge, both to be able to determine significant news from marketing noise *and* to be able to deep dive into a new feature and make an article out of it that makes a good read for developers or OpenStack deployers. It's also a full-time job, even if some of those deep-dive articles could just be contributed by their developers. LWN is an exception rather than the rule in the tech press. It would be absolutely awesome if we managed to build something like it to cover OpenStack, but finding the right people (the right skill set + the will and the time to do it) will be, I fear, extremely difficult. Thoughts ? Volunteers ? -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
On 11/21/2013 4:43 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote: The trick is, such coverage requires editors with a deep technical knowledge, both to be able to determine significant news from marketing noise *and* to be able to deep dive into a new feature and make an article out of it that makes a good read for developers or OpenStack deployers. It's also a full-time job, even if some of those deep-dive articles could just be contributed by their developers. LWN is an exception rather than the rule in the tech press. It would be absolutely awesome if we managed to build something like it to cover OpenStack, but finding the right people (the right skill set + the will and the time to do it) will be, I fear, extremely difficult. Thoughts ? Volunteers ? (raises hand) As it happens, according to my job description, doing a deep dive into a new feature and make an article out of it that makes a good read for developers or OpenStack deployers) IS my full time job, and as of yesterday, so is keeping up with weekly technical news that would cover updates from major projects. :) The information site's just emerging from beta (when I get back after Thanksgiving, likely) but I'm sure we can work something out. So I'm happy to head this up, if nobody else has time. Nick ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
On Thu, 2013-11-21 at 10:43 +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote: Stefano Maffulli wrote: On 11/19/2013 09:33 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote: The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. I like the idea. I have received requests to include high level summaries from all projects in the weekly newsletter but it's quite impossible for me to do that as I don't have enough understanding of each project to extrapolate the significant news from the noise. [...] This is an interesting point. From various discussions I had with people over the last year, the thing the development community is really really after is weekly technical news that would cover updates from major projects as well as deep dives into new features, tech conference CFPs, etc. The reference in the area (and only example I have) is LWN (lwn.net) and their awesome weekly coverage of what happens in Linux kernel development and beyond. The trick is, such coverage requires editors with a deep technical knowledge, both to be able to determine significant news from marketing noise *and* to be able to deep dive into a new feature and make an article out of it that makes a good read for developers or OpenStack deployers. It's also a full-time job, even if some of those deep-dive articles could just be contributed by their developers. LWN is an exception rather than the rule in the tech press. It would be absolutely awesome if we managed to build something like it to cover OpenStack, but finding the right people (the right skill set + the will and the time to do it) will be, I fear, extremely difficult. Thoughts ? Volunteers ? Yeah, I think there's a huge opportunity for something like this. Look at the volume of interesting stuff that's going on on this list. Highlighting and summarising some of the more important and interesting of these discussions in high quality articles would be incredibly useful. It will be hard to pull off though. You need good quality writing but, more importantly, really strong editorial control who understands what people want to read. Mark. ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
Agreed I like the idea. It reminds me of the blog the solum team is setting up. I think I asked then when they announced that blog if there was plans to make it easy for other projects to also have there own supported blog. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-October/017977.html Maybe we should see how that could be done since the update page is pretty similar to a blog (and a blog can include other things as well, like tips and tricks for using rally for example). Thoughts? Sent from my really tiny device... On Nov 19, 2013, at 9:36 PM, Boris Pavlovic bpavlo...@mirantis.commailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com wrote: Hi stackers, Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing all patches in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =) The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. E.g. we start doing this in Rally: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few persons) that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates each week. Best regards, Boris Pavlovic -- Mirantis Inc. ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.orgmailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
On 20/11/13 09:33 +0400, Boris Pavlovic wrote: Hi stackers, Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing all patches in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =) The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. E.g. we start doing this in Rally: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/ Updates I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few persons) that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates each week. I like the idea. We've been doing so for Marconi here[0] but I agree that a more common place makes sense. The thing I like about thoughtstreams is that members can have their own stream and publish updates whenever they've something to say. They'll all end up in the combined stream, which also has an RSS feed that can be consumed. Anyway, I'm pretty sure this is also possible with other tools. Cheers, FF [0] https://thoughtstreams.io/combined/marconi-progress-and-updates/ ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
Boris Pavlovic wrote: The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. [...] I like the idea, can be very short updates, I don't think it should be automated (and it doesn't have to be every week if there is nothing to say). Ideally we would have a single forum for all of those, rather than have to fish for each appropriate wiki page. If everyone posted to planet.o.o that would be a start... Some other aggregator or site (like the one Flavio suggested) could also be used. -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
+1
I'd also love to see a tag or keyword associated with items that (affects
{project x,y,z}) or (possibly affects {project x,y,z} to highlight areas in
need of collaboration between teams. There is so much going on cross-project
these days, that if the project team thinks the change has side effects or
interaction changes beyond the internal project, they should raise a flag.
--Rocky
From: Boris Pavlovic [mailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:33 PM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List
Subject: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
Hi stackers,
Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at least I
would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing all patches
in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of what is happing
in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at least for me).
Especially after 2 weeks vacation =)
The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story
wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most
interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week.
So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get
better understanding of high level road map of the project.
E.g. we start doing this in Rally: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates
I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few persons)
that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates each week.
Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic
--
Mirantis Inc.
___
OpenStack-dev mailing list
OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org
http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
On 11/20/2013 12:33 AM, Boris Pavlovic wrote: Hi stackers, Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing all patches in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =) The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. E.g. we start doing this in Rally: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few persons) that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates each week. +1 Great idea, Boris. Also like the follow up ideas from Rocky about tagging for cross-project referencing. Best, -jay ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
Hmm, I was sort of thinking along the same lines after writing my post-summit summary for keystone: https://gist.github.com/dolph/7366031 Granted this is the first time I've written such a document, I could see this evolving into a regularly updated document on the long term direction that keystone-core is in agreement on. Weekly updates is a bit demanding (our direction isn't necessarily tweaked on a weekly basis and actual progress is already tracked via wishlist bugs and blueprints), but I'd be interested in participating in a formalized cross-project approach to communicating this information. On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.orgwrote: Boris Pavlovic wrote: The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. [...] I like the idea, can be very short updates, I don't think it should be automated (and it doesn't have to be every week if there is nothing to say). Ideally we would have a single forum for all of those, rather than have to fish for each appropriate wiki page. If everyone posted to planet.o.o that would be a start... Some other aggregator or site (like the one Flavio suggested) could also be used. -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- -Dolph ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
On 11/19/2013 09:33 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote: The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. I like the idea. I have received requests to include high level summaries from all projects in the weekly newsletter but it's quite impossible for me to do that as I don't have enough understanding of each project to extrapolate the significant news from the noise. The links to all projects activity I recently added to the weekly newsletter are an attempt to address the issue. Not sure the wiki is the best place for this sort of stuff (wiki pages are awful for anything but quick notes): since we want this content to be delivered and produced easily I would suggest setting up something that resembles more a commit log than a wiki page. A short, brief dump of text, written by developers or people involved, using tools they're already familiar with. I'd prefer a short email to the list, with a tag in the subject instead of a wiki page. I'd be glad to further distribute them in the weekly newsletter. /stef -- Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.orgwrote: I like the idea. I love this idea. ... Not sure the wiki is the best place for this sort of stuff (wiki pages are awful for anything but quick notes): since we want this content to be delivered and produced easily I would suggest setting up something that resembles more a commit log than a wiki page. A short, brief dump of text, written by developers or people involved, using tools they're already familiar with. I'd prefer a short email to the list, with a tag in the subject instead of a wiki page. I'd be glad to further distribute them in the weekly newsletter. We definitely want to make it as easy as possible for people to contribute, and to get the information. We would be happy to contribute space on our OpenStack information site (with a feed if people want it) and resources to make this as easy to contribute to and as useful as possible. Does anybody else want to head this up? If not, I would be more than happy to take the point. Nick ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
Excerpts from Boris Pavlovic's message of 2013-11-19 21:33:08 -0800: Hi stackers, Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing all patches in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =) The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. I like the idea, but I don't like having _more_ wiki pages. I think the weekly IRC meeting would be a good place for this to be maintained. We can have an agenda item Updates. Before the meeting people can add any and the chair can paste those in. Then any that people come up with during the meeting can be stated by attendees. chair #topic Updates chair * Core reviewer added: foo-person, congratulations! SpamapS * Completed py3k fixes for python-barclient This way the updates are sent along with any other relevant discussions from the meeting, and subscribers can still just follow pages they're already used to following. Meanwhile the Updates topic can be automatically extracted from the meeting logs and highlighted in a special section of the main project wiki page. Perhaps the same automation can maintain a page which includes all of the other projects' updates for a one stop shop. If people like this idea and want to try it out I'd be happy to throw together a script to do the log extraction. Anyway, less manual == more fun == more engagement. ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
[openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
Hi stackers, Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing all patches in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =) The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. E.g. we start doing this in Rally: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few persons) that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates each week. Best regards, Boris Pavlovic -- Mirantis Inc. ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
+1 On 20 November 2013 06:33, Boris Pavlovic bpavlo...@mirantis.com wrote: Hi stackers, Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing all patches in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =) The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. E.g. we start doing this in Rally: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few persons) that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates each week. Best regards, Boris Pavlovic -- Mirantis Inc. ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] Propose project story wiki idea
Love the idea Boris - a nice read :) Regards, Tom On 20/11/13 16:45, Michael Bright wrote: +1 On 20 November 2013 06:33, Boris Pavlovic bpavlo...@mirantis.com mailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com wrote: Hi stackers, Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing all patches in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =) The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have story wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of the project. E.g. we start doing this in Rally: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few persons) that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates each week. Best regards, Boris Pavlovic -- Mirantis Inc. ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org mailto:OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev ___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
