Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Vladimir Kozhukalov]

Oleg,

In 6.0 we build OS target images during Fuel ISO building and then we just
put them on the ISO. In 6.1 we are planning to build them (at least Ubuntu
one) on the master node. We deliberately don't use DIB because it is all
about cloud case. DIB downloads pre-built cloud images (ubuntu, rhel,
fedora) and customizes them. Unlike cloud case we need long living OS on a
node (we need to be able to update it, install kernel and grub locally, put
different file systems on different block devices) because our case is
deployment. To achieve this goal we need slightly more low level mechanism
than that is provided by DIB. For ubuntu we use debootstrap and for centos
we use python-imgcreate.

Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Oleg Gelbukh 
wrote:

> Gentlemen,
>
> I have one small question about IBP, and I'm not sure if this is the right
> place to ask, but still: how do you plan to build the images for the
> image-based provisioning? Will you leverage diskimage-builder
>  or some other tool?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Oleg Gelbukh
> Mirantis Labs
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Andrew Woodward 
> wrote:
>
>> I don't see this as crazy, it's not a feature of the cloud, its a
>> mechanism to get us there. It's not even something that most of the
>> time anyone sees. Continuing to waste time supporting something we are
>> ready to replace, and have been testing for a release already is
>> crazy. It adds to the technical debt around provisioning that is
>> broken a chlot of the time. We spend around 11% of all commits of
>> fuel-library to cobbler, templates, pmanager etc
>>
>> It's also not removing it, it will continue to be present to support
>> prior releases, so it's even still available if we cant make IBP work
>> the way we need to.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>  wrote:
>> > Guys,
>> >
>> > First, we are not talking about deliberate disabling preseed based
>> approach
>> > just because we so crazy. The question is "What is the best way to
>> achieve
>> > our 6.1 goals?" We definitely need to be able to install two versions of
>> > Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04. Those versions have different sets of packages
>> (for
>> > example ntp related ones) and we install some of those packages during
>> > provisioning (we point out which packages we need with their versions).
>> To
>> > make this working with preseed based approach we need either to insert
>> some
>> > "IF release==6.1" conditional lines into preseed (not very beautiful,
>> isn't
>> > it?) or to create different Distros and Profiles for different releases.
>> > Second is not a problem for Cobbler but it is for nailgun/astute
>> because we
>> > do not deal with that stuff and it looks that we cannot implement this
>> > easily.
>> >
>> > IMO, the only options we have are to insert "IFs" into preseed (I would
>> say
>> > it is not more reliable than IBP) or to refuse preseed approach for
>> ONLY NEW
>> > UPCOMING releases. You can call "crazy" but for me having a set "IFs"
>> > together with pmanager.py which are absolutely difficult to maintain is
>> > crazy.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:03 AM, Andrew Woodward 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> > Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
>> >> > updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines
>> with
>> >> > these
>> >> > fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
>> >> > provision.
>> >> > ... Just in case.
>> >>
>> >> doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
>> >> FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Best regards,
>> >> > Sergii Golovatiuk,
>> >> > Skype #golserge
>> >> > IRC #holser
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >> >  wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all
>> upcoming
>> >> >> OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
>> >> >> possible
>> >> >> to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
>> >> >> releases.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
>> >> >>> FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at
>> all?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >> >>>  wrote:
>> >> >>> > Subject is changed.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >> >>> >  wrote:
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> Dear Fuelers,
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> As you might know we need it to be possible to install

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Oleg Gelbukh]

Gentlemen,

I have one small question about IBP, and I'm not sure if this is the right
place to ask, but still: how do you plan to build the images for the
image-based provisioning? Will you leverage diskimage-builder
 or some other tool?

Thanks,


--
Best regards,
Oleg Gelbukh
Mirantis Labs

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Andrew Woodward  wrote:

> I don't see this as crazy, it's not a feature of the cloud, its a
> mechanism to get us there. It's not even something that most of the
> time anyone sees. Continuing to waste time supporting something we are
> ready to replace, and have been testing for a release already is
> crazy. It adds to the technical debt around provisioning that is
> broken a chlot of the time. We spend around 11% of all commits of
> fuel-library to cobbler, templates, pmanager etc
>
> It's also not removing it, it will continue to be present to support
> prior releases, so it's even still available if we cant make IBP work
> the way we need to.
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>  wrote:
> > Guys,
> >
> > First, we are not talking about deliberate disabling preseed based
> approach
> > just because we so crazy. The question is "What is the best way to
> achieve
> > our 6.1 goals?" We definitely need to be able to install two versions of
> > Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04. Those versions have different sets of packages
> (for
> > example ntp related ones) and we install some of those packages during
> > provisioning (we point out which packages we need with their versions).
> To
> > make this working with preseed based approach we need either to insert
> some
> > "IF release==6.1" conditional lines into preseed (not very beautiful,
> isn't
> > it?) or to create different Distros and Profiles for different releases.
> > Second is not a problem for Cobbler but it is for nailgun/astute because
> we
> > do not deal with that stuff and it looks that we cannot implement this
> > easily.
> >
> > IMO, the only options we have are to insert "IFs" into preseed (I would
> say
> > it is not more reliable than IBP) or to refuse preseed approach for ONLY
> NEW
> > UPCOMING releases. You can call "crazy" but for me having a set "IFs"
> > together with pmanager.py which are absolutely difficult to maintain is
> > crazy.
> >
> >
> >
> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:03 AM, Andrew Woodward 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
> >> > updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
> >> > these
> >> > fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
> >> > provision.
> >> > ... Just in case.
> >>
> >> doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
> >> FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > Sergii Golovatiuk,
> >> > Skype #golserge
> >> > IRC #holser
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >> >  wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all
> upcoming
> >> >> OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
> >> >> possible
> >> >> to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
> >> >> releases.
> >> >>
> >> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky
> >> >> 
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
> >> >>> FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at
> all?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >> >>>  wrote:
> >> >>> > Subject is changed.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >> >>> >  wrote:
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> Dear Fuelers,
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
> >> >>> >> versions of
> >> >>> >> a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having
> >> >>> >> different
> >> >>> >> OS
> >> >>> >> versions also means having different sets of packages and some of
> >> >>> >> the
> >> >>> >> packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage,
> we
> >> >>> >> need to
> >> >>> >> have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
> >> >>> >> Distros
> >> >>> >> (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
> >> >>> >> unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those
> >> >>> >> Cobbler's
> >> >>> >> capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to
> be
> >> >>> >> easily
> >> >>> >> introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life
> cycle.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> Anyway, we are moving t

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Andrew Woodward]

I don't see this as crazy, it's not a feature of the cloud, its a
mechanism to get us there. It's not even something that most of the
time anyone sees. Continuing to waste time supporting something we are
ready to replace, and have been testing for a release already is
crazy. It adds to the technical debt around provisioning that is
broken a chlot of the time. We spend around 11% of all commits of
fuel-library to cobbler, templates, pmanager etc

It's also not removing it, it will continue to be present to support
prior releases, so it's even still available if we cant make IBP work
the way we need to.

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 wrote:
> Guys,
>
> First, we are not talking about deliberate disabling preseed based approach
> just because we so crazy. The question is "What is the best way to achieve
> our 6.1 goals?" We definitely need to be able to install two versions of
> Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04. Those versions have different sets of packages (for
> example ntp related ones) and we install some of those packages during
> provisioning (we point out which packages we need with their versions). To
> make this working with preseed based approach we need either to insert some
> "IF release==6.1" conditional lines into preseed (not very beautiful, isn't
> it?) or to create different Distros and Profiles for different releases.
> Second is not a problem for Cobbler but it is for nailgun/astute because we
> do not deal with that stuff and it looks that we cannot implement this
> easily.
>
> IMO, the only options we have are to insert "IFs" into preseed (I would say
> it is not more reliable than IBP) or to refuse preseed approach for ONLY NEW
> UPCOMING releases. You can call "crazy" but for me having a set "IFs"
> together with pmanager.py which are absolutely difficult to maintain is
> crazy.
>
>
>
> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:03 AM, Andrew Woodward  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
>>  wrote:
>> > Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
>> > updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
>> > these
>> > fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
>> > provision.
>> > ... Just in case.
>>
>> doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
>> FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Best regards,
>> > Sergii Golovatiuk,
>> > Skype #golserge
>> > IRC #holser
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
>> >> OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
>> >> possible
>> >> to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
>> >> releases.
>> >>
>> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky
>> >> 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
>> >>> FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >>>  wrote:
>> >>> > Subject is changed.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >>> >  wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Dear Fuelers,
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
>> >>> >> versions of
>> >>> >> a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having
>> >>> >> different
>> >>> >> OS
>> >>> >> versions also means having different sets of packages and some of
>> >>> >> the
>> >>> >> packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
>> >>> >> need to
>> >>> >> have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
>> >>> >> Distros
>> >>> >> (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
>> >>> >> unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those
>> >>> >> Cobbler's
>> >>> >> capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
>> >>> >> easily
>> >>> >> introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
>> >>> >> already have different images connected to different OpenStack
>> >>> >> releases
>> >>> >> (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
>> >>> >> node
>> >>> >> configuration is serialized inside provision data (including
>> >>> >> profile
>> >>> >> name
>> >>> >> like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
>> >>> >> cloud-init
>> >>> >> template by this profile name.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is
>> >>> >> to
>> >>> >> completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS
>> >>> >> provi

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Vladimir Kozhukalov]

Andrew is right about our ability to upgrade packages on a system using
"yum update" or "apt-get upgrade" because IBP installs standalone OS
(unlike cloud case). Even more, we'll build Ubuntu images on a master node
by 6.1 and of course we'll be able to use actual repo for that.

Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:

> Guys,
>
> First, we are not talking about deliberate disabling preseed based
> approach just because we so crazy. The question is "What is the best way to
> achieve our 6.1 goals?" We definitely need to be able to install two
> versions of Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04. Those versions have different sets of
> packages (for example ntp related ones) and we install some of those
> packages during provisioning (we point out which packages we need with
> their versions). To make this working with preseed based approach we need
> either to insert some "IF release==6.1" conditional lines into preseed (not
> very beautiful, isn't it?) or to create different Distros and Profiles for
> different releases. Second is not a problem for Cobbler but it is for
> nailgun/astute because we do not deal with that stuff and it looks that we
> cannot implement this easily.
>
> IMO, the only options we have are to insert "IFs" into preseed (I would
> say it is not more reliable than IBP) or to refuse preseed approach for
> ONLY NEW UPCOMING releases. You can call "crazy" but for me having a set
> "IFs" together with pmanager.py which are absolutely difficult to maintain
> is crazy.
>
>
>
> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:03 AM, Andrew Woodward  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
>>  wrote:
>> > Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
>> > updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
>> these
>> > fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
>> provision.
>> > ... Just in case.
>>
>> doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
>> FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Best regards,
>> > Sergii Golovatiuk,
>> > Skype #golserge
>> > IRC #holser
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
>> >> OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
>> possible
>> >> to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
>> >> releases.
>> >>
>> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky <
>> ikalnit...@mirantis.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
>> >>> FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >>>  wrote:
>> >>> > Subject is changed.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >>> >  wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Dear Fuelers,
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
>> >>> >> versions of
>> >>> >> a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having
>> different
>> >>> >> OS
>> >>> >> versions also means having different sets of packages and some of
>> the
>> >>> >> packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
>> >>> >> need to
>> >>> >> have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
>> >>> >> Distros
>> >>> >> (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
>> >>> >> unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those
>> Cobbler's
>> >>> >> capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
>> >>> >> easily
>> >>> >> introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
>> >>> >> already have different images connected to different OpenStack
>> >>> >> releases
>> >>> >> (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
>> >>> >> node
>> >>> >> configuration is serialized inside provision data (including
>> profile
>> >>> >> name
>> >>> >> like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
>> >>> >> cloud-init
>> >>> >> template by this profile name.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion
>> is to
>> >>> >> completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS
>> provisioning
>> >>> >> by 6.1
>> >>> >> for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> _

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Vladimir Kozhukalov]

Guys,

First, we are not talking about deliberate disabling preseed based approach
just because we so crazy. The question is "What is the best way to achieve
our 6.1 goals?" We definitely need to be able to install two versions of
Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04. Those versions have different sets of packages (for
example ntp related ones) and we install some of those packages during
provisioning (we point out which packages we need with their versions). To
make this working with preseed based approach we need either to insert some
"IF release==6.1" conditional lines into preseed (not very beautiful, isn't
it?) or to create different Distros and Profiles for different releases.
Second is not a problem for Cobbler but it is for nailgun/astute because we
do not deal with that stuff and it looks that we cannot implement this
easily.

IMO, the only options we have are to insert "IFs" into preseed (I would say
it is not more reliable than IBP) or to refuse preseed approach for ONLY
NEW UPCOMING releases. You can call "crazy" but for me having a set "IFs"
together with pmanager.py which are absolutely difficult to maintain is
crazy.



Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:03 AM, Andrew Woodward  wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
>  wrote:
> > Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
> > updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
> these
> > fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
> provision.
> > ... Just in case.
>
> doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
> FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Sergii Golovatiuk,
> > Skype #golserge
> > IRC #holser
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
> >> OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
> possible
> >> to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
> >> releases.
> >>
> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky <
> ikalnit...@mirantis.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
> >>> FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >>>  wrote:
> >>> > Subject is changed.
> >>> >
> >>> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >>> >
> >>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >>> >  wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Dear Fuelers,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
> >>> >> versions of
> >>> >> a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having
> different
> >>> >> OS
> >>> >> versions also means having different sets of packages and some of
> the
> >>> >> packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
> >>> >> need to
> >>> >> have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
> >>> >> Distros
> >>> >> (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
> >>> >> unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those
> Cobbler's
> >>> >> capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
> >>> >> easily
> >>> >> introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
> >>> >> already have different images connected to different OpenStack
> >>> >> releases
> >>> >> (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
> >>> >> node
> >>> >> configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
> >>> >> name
> >>> >> like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
> >>> >> cloud-init
> >>> >> template by this profile name.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is
> to
> >>> >> completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS
> provisioning
> >>> >> by 6.1
> >>> >> for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> __
> >>> > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> >>> > Unsubscribe:
> >>> > openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> >>> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> __
> >>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> >>> Unsubscribe:
> >>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> >>> http://lists.openstack.org

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Andrew Woodward]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
 wrote:
> Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
> updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with these
> fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal provision.
> ... Just in case.

doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Sergii Golovatiuk,
> Skype #golserge
> IRC #holser
>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>  wrote:
>>
>> My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
>> OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be possible
>> to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
>> releases.
>>
>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
>>> FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>>  wrote:
>>> > Subject is changed.
>>> >
>>> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Fuelers,
>>> >>
>>> >> As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
>>> >> versions of
>>> >> a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different
>>> >> OS
>>> >> versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
>>> >> packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
>>> >> need to
>>> >> have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
>>> >> Distros
>>> >> (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
>>> >> unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
>>> >> capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
>>> >> easily
>>> >> introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
>>> >>
>>> >> Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
>>> >> already have different images connected to different OpenStack
>>> >> releases
>>> >> (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
>>> >> node
>>> >> configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
>>> >> name
>>> >> like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
>>> >> cloud-init
>>> >> template by this profile name.
>>> >>
>>> >> And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
>>> >> completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning
>>> >> by 6.1
>>> >> for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
>>> >>
>>> >> Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
>>> >>
>>> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > __
>>> > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>> > Unsubscribe:
>>> > openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>>> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>> >
>>>
>>>
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-- 
Andrew
Mirantis
Ceph community

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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Vladimir Kuklin]

I would also go through normal deprecation process, thus marking it as
deprecated and disabled by default. But I would leave an opportunity to
enable it.

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Sergii Golovatiuk  wrote:

> Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
> updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
> these fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
> provision. ... Just in case.
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Sergii Golovatiuk,
> Skype #golserge
> IRC #holser
>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
> vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:
>
>> My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
>> OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
>> possible to install OS using kickstart for all currently available
>> OpenStack releases.
>>
>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
>>> FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>>  wrote:
>>> > Subject is changed.
>>> >
>>> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Fuelers,
>>> >>
>>> >> As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
>>> versions of
>>> >> a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having
>>> different OS
>>> >> versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
>>> >> packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
>>> need to
>>> >> have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
>>> Distros
>>> >> (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
>>> >> unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
>>> >> capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
>>> easily
>>> >> introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
>>> >>
>>> >> Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
>>> >> already have different images connected to different OpenStack
>>> releases
>>> >> (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
>>> node
>>> >> configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
>>> name
>>> >> like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
>>> cloud-init
>>> >> template by this profile name.
>>> >>
>>> >> And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
>>> >> completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning
>>> by 6.1
>>> >> for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
>>> >>
>>> >> Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
>>> >>
>>> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> __
>>> > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>> > Unsubscribe:
>>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>>> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>> >
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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-- 
Yours Faithfully,
Vladimir Kuklin,
Fuel Library Tech Lead,
Mirantis, Inc.
+7 (495) 640-49-04
+7 (926) 702-39-68
Skype kuklinvv
45bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
Moscow, Russia,
www.mirantis.com 
www.mirantis.ru
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Igor Kalnitsky]

+1 to Sergii. It's completely a crazy idea to replace one feature with
another and don't provide a fallback mode. We have no data how it
works on the user side in real life. I think it could be marked as
"deprecated", but it definitely must be present at least one release
yet.

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Sergii Golovatiuk
 wrote:
> Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
> updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with these
> fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal provision.
> ... Just in case.
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Sergii Golovatiuk,
> Skype #golserge
> IRC #holser
>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>  wrote:
>>
>> My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
>> OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be possible
>> to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
>> releases.
>>
>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
>>> FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>>  wrote:
>>> > Subject is changed.
>>> >
>>> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Fuelers,
>>> >>
>>> >> As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
>>> >> versions of
>>> >> a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different
>>> >> OS
>>> >> versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
>>> >> packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
>>> >> need to
>>> >> have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
>>> >>
>>> >> Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
>>> >> Distros
>>> >> (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
>>> >> unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
>>> >> capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
>>> >> easily
>>> >> introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
>>> >>
>>> >> Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
>>> >> already have different images connected to different OpenStack
>>> >> releases
>>> >> (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
>>> >> node
>>> >> configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
>>> >> name
>>> >> like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
>>> >> cloud-init
>>> >> template by this profile name.
>>> >>
>>> >> And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
>>> >> completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning
>>> >> by 6.1
>>> >> for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
>>> >>
>>> >> Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
>>> >>
>>> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > __
>>> > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>> > Unsubscribe:
>>> > openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>>> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>> >
>>>
>>>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Sergii Golovatiuk]

Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
these fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
provision. ... Just in case.



--
Best regards,
Sergii Golovatiuk,
Skype #golserge
IRC #holser

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:

> My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
> OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
> possible to install OS using kickstart for all currently available
> OpenStack releases.
>
> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky 
> wrote:
>
>> Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
>> FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>>  wrote:
>> > Subject is changed.
>> >
>> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear Fuelers,
>> >>
>> >> As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
>> versions of
>> >> a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different
>> OS
>> >> versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
>> >> packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
>> need to
>> >> have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
>> >>
>> >> Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
>> Distros
>> >> (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
>> >> unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
>> >> capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
>> easily
>> >> introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
>> >> already have different images connected to different OpenStack releases
>> >> (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
>> node
>> >> configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
>> name
>> >> like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
>> cloud-init
>> >> template by this profile name.
>> >>
>> >> And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
>> >> completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning
>> by 6.1
>> >> for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
>> >>
>> >> Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
>> >>
>> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> __
>> > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>> > Unsubscribe:
>> openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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>> >
>>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Vladimir Kozhukalov]

My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
possible to install OS using kickstart for all currently available
OpenStack releases.

Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky 
wrote:

> Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
> FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?
>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>  wrote:
> > Subject is changed.
> >
> > Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Fuelers,
> >>
> >> As you might know we need it to be possible to install several versions
> of
> >> a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different
> OS
> >> versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
> >> packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
> need to
> >> have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
> >>
> >> Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
> Distros
> >> (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
> >> unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
> >> capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
> easily
> >> introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
> >>
> >> Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
> >> already have different images connected to different OpenStack releases
> >> (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial node
> >> configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
> name
> >> like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
> cloud-init
> >> template by this profile name.
> >>
> >> And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
> >> completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning
> by 6.1
> >> for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
> >>
> >> Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
> >>
> >> Vladimir Kozhukalov
> >
> >
> >
> >
> __
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Igor Kalnitsky]

Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 wrote:
> Subject is changed.
>
> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>
> On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
>  wrote:
>>
>> Dear Fuelers,
>>
>> As you might know we need it to be possible to install several versions of
>> a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different OS
>> versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
>> packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we need to
>> have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
>>
>> Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several Distros
>> (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
>> unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
>> capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be easily
>> introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
>>
>> Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
>> already have different images connected to different OpenStack releases
>> (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial node
>> configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile name
>> like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose cloud-init
>> template by this profile name.
>>
>> And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
>> completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning by 6.1
>> for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
>>
>> Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
>>
>> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>
>
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

[Vladimir Kozhukalov]

Subject is changed.

Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov <
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com> wrote:

> Dear Fuelers,
>
> As you might know we need it to be possible to install several versions of
> a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different OS
> versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
> packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we need to
> have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
>
> Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several Distros
> (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
> unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
> capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be easily
> introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
>
> Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
> already have different images connected to different OpenStack releases
> (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial node
> configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile name
> like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose cloud-init
> template by this profile name.
>
> And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
> completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning by
> 6.1 for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
>
> Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
>
> Vladimir Kozhukalov
>
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