Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-28 Thread Vladimir Kozhukalov
Oleg,

In 6.0 we build OS target images during Fuel ISO building and then we just
put them on the ISO. In 6.1 we are planning to build them (at least Ubuntu
one) on the master node. We deliberately don't use DIB because it is all
about cloud case. DIB downloads pre-built cloud images (ubuntu, rhel,
fedora) and customizes them. Unlike cloud case we need long living OS on a
node (we need to be able to update it, install kernel and grub locally, put
different file systems on different block devices) because our case is
deployment. To achieve this goal we need slightly more low level mechanism
than that is provided by DIB. For ubuntu we use debootstrap and for centos
we use python-imgcreate.

Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Oleg Gelbukh ogelb...@mirantis.com
wrote:

 Gentlemen,

 I have one small question about IBP, and I'm not sure if this is the right
 place to ask, but still: how do you plan to build the images for the
 image-based provisioning? Will you leverage diskimage-builder
 https://github.com/openstack/diskimage-builder or some other tool?

 Thanks,


 --
 Best regards,
 Oleg Gelbukh
 Mirantis Labs

 On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Andrew Woodward xar...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I don't see this as crazy, it's not a feature of the cloud, its a
 mechanism to get us there. It's not even something that most of the
 time anyone sees. Continuing to waste time supporting something we are
 ready to replace, and have been testing for a release already is
 crazy. It adds to the technical debt around provisioning that is
 broken a chlot of the time. We spend around 11% of all commits of
 fuel-library to cobbler, templates, pmanager etc

 It's also not removing it, it will continue to be present to support
 prior releases, so it's even still available if we cant make IBP work
 the way we need to.

 On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  Guys,
 
  First, we are not talking about deliberate disabling preseed based
 approach
  just because we so crazy. The question is What is the best way to
 achieve
  our 6.1 goals? We definitely need to be able to install two versions of
  Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04. Those versions have different sets of packages
 (for
  example ntp related ones) and we install some of those packages during
  provisioning (we point out which packages we need with their versions).
 To
  make this working with preseed based approach we need either to insert
 some
  IF release==6.1 conditional lines into preseed (not very beautiful,
 isn't
  it?) or to create different Distros and Profiles for different releases.
  Second is not a problem for Cobbler but it is for nailgun/astute
 because we
  do not deal with that stuff and it looks that we cannot implement this
  easily.
 
  IMO, the only options we have are to insert IFs into preseed (I would
 say
  it is not more reliable than IBP) or to refuse preseed approach for
 ONLY NEW
  UPCOMING releases. You can call crazy but for me having a set IFs
  together with pmanager.py which are absolutely difficult to maintain is
  crazy.
 
 
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
  On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:03 AM, Andrew Woodward xar...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
  sgolovat...@mirantis.com wrote:
   Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
   updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines
 with
   these
   fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
   provision.
   ... Just in case.
 
  doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
  FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?
  
  
  
   --
   Best regards,
   Sergii Golovatiuk,
   Skype #golserge
   IRC #holser
  
   On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
   vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  
   My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all
 upcoming
   OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
   possible
   to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
   releases.
  
   Vladimir Kozhukalov
  
   On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky
   ikalnit...@mirantis.com
   wrote:
  
   Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
   FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at
 all?
  
   On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
   vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
Subject is changed.
   
Vladimir Kozhukalov
   
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
   
Dear Fuelers,
   
As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
versions of
a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having
different
OS
versions also means having different sets of packages and some
 of
the
packages are installed and configured during provisioning
 stage, we
need 

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-27 Thread Andrew Woodward
I don't see this as crazy, it's not a feature of the cloud, its a
mechanism to get us there. It's not even something that most of the
time anyone sees. Continuing to waste time supporting something we are
ready to replace, and have been testing for a release already is
crazy. It adds to the technical debt around provisioning that is
broken a chlot of the time. We spend around 11% of all commits of
fuel-library to cobbler, templates, pmanager etc

It's also not removing it, it will continue to be present to support
prior releases, so it's even still available if we cant make IBP work
the way we need to.

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
 Guys,

 First, we are not talking about deliberate disabling preseed based approach
 just because we so crazy. The question is What is the best way to achieve
 our 6.1 goals? We definitely need to be able to install two versions of
 Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04. Those versions have different sets of packages (for
 example ntp related ones) and we install some of those packages during
 provisioning (we point out which packages we need with their versions). To
 make this working with preseed based approach we need either to insert some
 IF release==6.1 conditional lines into preseed (not very beautiful, isn't
 it?) or to create different Distros and Profiles for different releases.
 Second is not a problem for Cobbler but it is for nailgun/astute because we
 do not deal with that stuff and it looks that we cannot implement this
 easily.

 IMO, the only options we have are to insert IFs into preseed (I would say
 it is not more reliable than IBP) or to refuse preseed approach for ONLY NEW
 UPCOMING releases. You can call crazy but for me having a set IFs
 together with pmanager.py which are absolutely difficult to maintain is
 crazy.



 Vladimir Kozhukalov

 On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:03 AM, Andrew Woodward xar...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
 sgolovat...@mirantis.com wrote:
  Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
  updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
  these
  fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
  provision.
  ... Just in case.

 doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
 FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?
 
 
 
  --
  Best regards,
  Sergii Golovatiuk,
  Skype #golserge
  IRC #holser
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
  vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
 
  My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
  OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
  possible
  to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
  releases.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky
  ikalnit...@mirantis.com
  wrote:
 
  Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
  FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
  vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
   Subject is changed.
  
   Vladimir Kozhukalov
  
   On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
   vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  
   Dear Fuelers,
  
   As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
   versions of
   a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having
   different
   OS
   versions also means having different sets of packages and some of
   the
   packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
   need to
   have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
  
   Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
   Distros
   (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
   unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those
   Cobbler's
   capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
   easily
   introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
  
   Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
   already have different images connected to different OpenStack
   releases
   (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
   node
   configuration is serialized inside provision data (including
   profile
   name
   like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
   cloud-init
   template by this profile name.
  
   And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is
   to
   completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS
   provisioning
   by 6.1
   for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
  
   Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
  
   Vladimir Kozhukalov
  
  
  
  
  
   __
   OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
   

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-27 Thread Vladimir Kozhukalov
Andrew is right about our ability to upgrade packages on a system using
yum update or apt-get upgrade because IBP installs standalone OS
(unlike cloud case). Even more, we'll build Ubuntu images on a master node
by 6.1 and of course we'll be able to use actual repo for that.

Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov 
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:

 Guys,

 First, we are not talking about deliberate disabling preseed based
 approach just because we so crazy. The question is What is the best way to
 achieve our 6.1 goals? We definitely need to be able to install two
 versions of Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04. Those versions have different sets of
 packages (for example ntp related ones) and we install some of those
 packages during provisioning (we point out which packages we need with
 their versions). To make this working with preseed based approach we need
 either to insert some IF release==6.1 conditional lines into preseed (not
 very beautiful, isn't it?) or to create different Distros and Profiles for
 different releases. Second is not a problem for Cobbler but it is for
 nailgun/astute because we do not deal with that stuff and it looks that we
 cannot implement this easily.

 IMO, the only options we have are to insert IFs into preseed (I would
 say it is not more reliable than IBP) or to refuse preseed approach for
 ONLY NEW UPCOMING releases. You can call crazy but for me having a set
 IFs together with pmanager.py which are absolutely difficult to maintain
 is crazy.



 Vladimir Kozhukalov

 On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:03 AM, Andrew Woodward xar...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
 sgolovat...@mirantis.com wrote:
  Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
  updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
 these
  fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
 provision.
  ... Just in case.

 doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
 FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?
 
 
 
  --
  Best regards,
  Sergii Golovatiuk,
  Skype #golserge
  IRC #holser
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
  vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
 
  My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
  OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
 possible
  to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
  releases.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky 
 ikalnit...@mirantis.com
  wrote:
 
  Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
  FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
  vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
   Subject is changed.
  
   Vladimir Kozhukalov
  
   On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
   vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  
   Dear Fuelers,
  
   As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
   versions of
   a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having
 different
   OS
   versions also means having different sets of packages and some of
 the
   packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
   need to
   have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
  
   Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
   Distros
   (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
   unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those
 Cobbler's
   capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
   easily
   introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
  
   Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
   already have different images connected to different OpenStack
   releases
   (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
   node
   configuration is serialized inside provision data (including
 profile
   name
   like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
   cloud-init
   template by this profile name.
  
   And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion
 is to
   completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS
 provisioning
   by 6.1
   for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
  
   Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
  
   Vladimir Kozhukalov
  
  
  
  
  
 __
   OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
   Unsubscribe:
   openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
   http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
  
 
 
 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-27 Thread Vladimir Kozhukalov
Guys,

First, we are not talking about deliberate disabling preseed based approach
just because we so crazy. The question is What is the best way to achieve
our 6.1 goals? We definitely need to be able to install two versions of
Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04. Those versions have different sets of packages (for
example ntp related ones) and we install some of those packages during
provisioning (we point out which packages we need with their versions). To
make this working with preseed based approach we need either to insert some
IF release==6.1 conditional lines into preseed (not very beautiful, isn't
it?) or to create different Distros and Profiles for different releases.
Second is not a problem for Cobbler but it is for nailgun/astute because we
do not deal with that stuff and it looks that we cannot implement this
easily.

IMO, the only options we have are to insert IFs into preseed (I would say
it is not more reliable than IBP) or to refuse preseed approach for ONLY
NEW UPCOMING releases. You can call crazy but for me having a set IFs
together with pmanager.py which are absolutely difficult to maintain is
crazy.



Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:03 AM, Andrew Woodward xar...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
 sgolovat...@mirantis.com wrote:
  Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
  updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
 these
  fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
 provision.
  ... Just in case.

 doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
 FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?
 
 
 
  --
  Best regards,
  Sergii Golovatiuk,
  Skype #golserge
  IRC #holser
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
  vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
 
  My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
  OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
 possible
  to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
  releases.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky 
 ikalnit...@mirantis.com
  wrote:
 
  Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
  FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
  vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
   Subject is changed.
  
   Vladimir Kozhukalov
  
   On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
   vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  
   Dear Fuelers,
  
   As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
   versions of
   a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having
 different
   OS
   versions also means having different sets of packages and some of
 the
   packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
   need to
   have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
  
   Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
   Distros
   (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
   unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those
 Cobbler's
   capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
   easily
   introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
  
   Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
   already have different images connected to different OpenStack
   releases
   (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
   node
   configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
   name
   like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
   cloud-init
   template by this profile name.
  
   And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is
 to
   completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS
 provisioning
   by 6.1
   for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
  
   Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
  
   Vladimir Kozhukalov
  
  
  
  
  
 __
   OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
   Unsubscribe:
   openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
   http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
  
 
 
 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-27 Thread Oleg Gelbukh
Gentlemen,

I have one small question about IBP, and I'm not sure if this is the right
place to ask, but still: how do you plan to build the images for the
image-based provisioning? Will you leverage diskimage-builder
https://github.com/openstack/diskimage-builder or some other tool?

Thanks,


--
Best regards,
Oleg Gelbukh
Mirantis Labs

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 10:55 PM, Andrew Woodward xar...@gmail.com wrote:

 I don't see this as crazy, it's not a feature of the cloud, its a
 mechanism to get us there. It's not even something that most of the
 time anyone sees. Continuing to waste time supporting something we are
 ready to replace, and have been testing for a release already is
 crazy. It adds to the technical debt around provisioning that is
 broken a chlot of the time. We spend around 11% of all commits of
 fuel-library to cobbler, templates, pmanager etc

 It's also not removing it, it will continue to be present to support
 prior releases, so it's even still available if we cant make IBP work
 the way we need to.

 On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  Guys,
 
  First, we are not talking about deliberate disabling preseed based
 approach
  just because we so crazy. The question is What is the best way to
 achieve
  our 6.1 goals? We definitely need to be able to install two versions of
  Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04. Those versions have different sets of packages
 (for
  example ntp related ones) and we install some of those packages during
  provisioning (we point out which packages we need with their versions).
 To
  make this working with preseed based approach we need either to insert
 some
  IF release==6.1 conditional lines into preseed (not very beautiful,
 isn't
  it?) or to create different Distros and Profiles for different releases.
  Second is not a problem for Cobbler but it is for nailgun/astute because
 we
  do not deal with that stuff and it looks that we cannot implement this
  easily.
 
  IMO, the only options we have are to insert IFs into preseed (I would
 say
  it is not more reliable than IBP) or to refuse preseed approach for ONLY
 NEW
  UPCOMING releases. You can call crazy but for me having a set IFs
  together with pmanager.py which are absolutely difficult to maintain is
  crazy.
 
 
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
  On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 3:03 AM, Andrew Woodward xar...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
  sgolovat...@mirantis.com wrote:
   Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
   updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
   these
   fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
   provision.
   ... Just in case.
 
  doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
  FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?
  
  
  
   --
   Best regards,
   Sergii Golovatiuk,
   Skype #golserge
   IRC #holser
  
   On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
   vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  
   My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all
 upcoming
   OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
   possible
   to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
   releases.
  
   Vladimir Kozhukalov
  
   On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky
   ikalnit...@mirantis.com
   wrote:
  
   Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
   FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at
 all?
  
   On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
   vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
Subject is changed.
   
Vladimir Kozhukalov
   
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
   
Dear Fuelers,
   
As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
versions of
a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having
different
OS
versions also means having different sets of packages and some of
the
packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage,
 we
need to
have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
   
Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
Distros
(installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those
Cobbler's
capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to
 be
easily
introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life
 cycle.
   
Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and
 we
already have different images connected to different OpenStack
releases
(openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for
 initial
node
configuration is serialized inside provision data (including
profile
name
like 'ubuntu_1204' or 

Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-26 Thread Vladimir Kozhukalov
Subject is changed.

Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov 
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:

 Dear Fuelers,

 As you might know we need it to be possible to install several versions of
 a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different OS
 versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
 packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we need to
 have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.

 Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several Distros
 (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
 unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
 capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be easily
 introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.

 Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
 already have different images connected to different OpenStack releases
 (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial node
 configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile name
 like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose cloud-init
 template by this profile name.

 And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
 completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning by
 6.1 for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.

 Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.

 Vladimir Kozhukalov

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OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-26 Thread Vladimir Kozhukalov
My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
possible to install OS using kickstart for all currently available
OpenStack releases.

Vladimir Kozhukalov

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky ikalnit...@mirantis.com
wrote:

 Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
 FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  Subject is changed.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
  vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
 
  Dear Fuelers,
 
  As you might know we need it to be possible to install several versions
 of
  a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different
 OS
  versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
  packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
 need to
  have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
 
  Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
 Distros
  (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
  unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
  capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
 easily
  introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
 
  Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
  already have different images connected to different OpenStack releases
  (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial node
  configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
 name
  like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
 cloud-init
  template by this profile name.
 
  And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
  completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning
 by 6.1
  for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
 
  Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
 
 
 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-26 Thread Igor Kalnitsky
Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
 Subject is changed.

 Vladimir Kozhukalov

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:

 Dear Fuelers,

 As you might know we need it to be possible to install several versions of
 a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different OS
 versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
 packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we need to
 have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.

 Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several Distros
 (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
 unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
 capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be easily
 introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.

 Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
 already have different images connected to different OpenStack releases
 (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial node
 configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile name
 like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose cloud-init
 template by this profile name.

 And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
 completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning by 6.1
 for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.

 Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.

 Vladimir Kozhukalov



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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-26 Thread Sergii Golovatiuk
Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
these fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
provision. ... Just in case.



--
Best regards,
Sergii Golovatiuk,
Skype #golserge
IRC #holser

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov 
vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:

 My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
 OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
 possible to install OS using kickstart for all currently available
 OpenStack releases.

 Vladimir Kozhukalov

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky ikalnit...@mirantis.com
 wrote:

 Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
 FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  Subject is changed.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
  vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
 
  Dear Fuelers,
 
  As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
 versions of
  a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different
 OS
  versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
  packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
 need to
  have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
 
  Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
 Distros
  (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
  unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
  capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
 easily
  introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
 
  Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
  already have different images connected to different OpenStack releases
  (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
 node
  configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
 name
  like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
 cloud-init
  template by this profile name.
 
  And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
  completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning
 by 6.1
  for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
 
  Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
 
 
 
 __
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 openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-26 Thread Vladimir Kuklin
I would also go through normal deprecation process, thus marking it as
deprecated and disabled by default. But I would leave an opportunity to
enable it.

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 9:47 PM, Sergii Golovatiuk sgolovat...@mirantis.com
 wrote:

 Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
 updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with
 these fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal
 provision. ... Just in case.



 --
 Best regards,
 Sergii Golovatiuk,
 Skype #golserge
 IRC #holser

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov 
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:

 My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
 OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be
 possible to install OS using kickstart for all currently available
 OpenStack releases.

 Vladimir Kozhukalov

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky ikalnit...@mirantis.com
 wrote:

 Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
 FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  Subject is changed.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
  vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
 
  Dear Fuelers,
 
  As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
 versions of
  a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having
 different OS
  versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
  packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
 need to
  have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
 
  Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
 Distros
  (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
  unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
  capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
 easily
  introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
 
  Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
  already have different images connected to different OpenStack
 releases
  (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
 node
  configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
 name
  like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
 cloud-init
  template by this profile name.
 
  And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
  completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning
 by 6.1
  for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
 
  Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
 
 
 
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 openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
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-- 
Yours Faithfully,
Vladimir Kuklin,
Fuel Library Tech Lead,
Mirantis, Inc.
+7 (495) 640-49-04
+7 (926) 702-39-68
Skype kuklinvv
45bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
Moscow, Russia,
www.mirantis.com http://www.mirantis.ru/
www.mirantis.ru
vkuk...@mirantis.com
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-26 Thread Igor Kalnitsky
+1 to Sergii. It's completely a crazy idea to replace one feature with
another and don't provide a fallback mode. We have no data how it
works on the user side in real life. I think it could be marked as
deprecated, but it definitely must be present at least one release
yet.

On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Sergii Golovatiuk
sgolovat...@mirantis.com wrote:
 Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
 updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with these
 fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal provision.
 ... Just in case.



 --
 Best regards,
 Sergii Golovatiuk,
 Skype #golserge
 IRC #holser

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:

 My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
 OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be possible
 to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
 releases.

 Vladimir Kozhukalov

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky ikalnit...@mirantis.com
 wrote:

 Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
 FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  Subject is changed.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
  vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
 
  Dear Fuelers,
 
  As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
  versions of
  a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different
  OS
  versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
  packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
  need to
  have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
 
  Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
  Distros
  (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
  unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
  capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
  easily
  introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
 
  Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
  already have different images connected to different OpenStack
  releases
  (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
  node
  configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
  name
  like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
  cloud-init
  template by this profile name.
 
  And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
  completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning
  by 6.1
  for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
 
  Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
 
 
 
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Re: [openstack-dev] [Fuel] Getting rid of kickstart/preseed for all NEW releases

2015-01-26 Thread Andrew Woodward
On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Sergii Golovatiuk
sgolovat...@mirantis.com wrote:
 Until we are sure IBP solves operation phase where we need to deliver
 updated packages so client will be able to provision new machines with these
 fixed packages, I would leave backward compatibility with normal provision.
 ... Just in case.

doesn't running 'apt-get upgrade' or 'yum update' after laying out the
FS image resolve the gap until we can rebuild the images on the fly?



 --
 Best regards,
 Sergii Golovatiuk,
 Skype #golserge
 IRC #holser

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:

 My suggestion is to make IBP the only option available for all upcoming
 OpenStack releases which are defined in openstack.yaml. It is to be possible
 to install OS using kickstart for all currently available OpenStack
 releases.

 Vladimir Kozhukalov

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Igor Kalnitsky ikalnit...@mirantis.com
 wrote:

 Just want to be sure I understand you correctly: do you propose to
 FORBID kickstart/preseed installation way in upcoming release at all?

 On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
 vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
  Subject is changed.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
  On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Vladimir Kozhukalov
  vkozhuka...@mirantis.com wrote:
 
  Dear Fuelers,
 
  As you might know we need it to be possible to install several
  versions of
  a particular OS (Ubuntu and Centos) by 6.1  As far as having different
  OS
  versions also means having different sets of packages and some of  the
  packages are installed and configured during provisioning stage, we
  need to
  have a kind of kickstart/preseed version mechanism.
 
  Cobbler is exactly such a mechanism. It allows us to have several
  Distros
  (installer images) and profiles (kickstart/preseed files). But
  unfortunately, for some reasons we have not been using those Cobbler's
  capabilities since the beginning of Fuel and it doesn't seem to be
  easily
  introduced into Nailgun to deal with the whole Cobbler life cycle.
 
  Anyway, we are moving towards IBP (image based provisioning) and we
  already have different images connected to different OpenStack
  releases
  (openstack.yaml) and everything else which is necessary for initial
  node
  configuration is serialized inside provision data (including profile
  name
  like 'ubuntu_1204' or 'ubuntu_1404') and we are able to choose
  cloud-init
  template by this profile name.
 
  And taking into account what it is written above, the suggestion is to
  completely avoid using kickstart/preseed based way of OS provisioning
  by 6.1
  for all new releases allowing ONLY old ones to use this way.
 
  Any opinions about that stuff are welcome.
 
  Vladimir Kozhukalov
 
 
 
 
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-- 
Andrew
Mirantis
Ceph community

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