Re: [openstack-dev] [Ironic] how about those alternating meeting times?
On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 06:41:55PM +, Devananda van der Veen wrote: This is a much-overdue follow up to this poll, which got 17 responses. snip So, though it saddens me, I would like to propose that we change back to a single meeting time effective the week following our midcycle (Aug 10th). That will give folks two meetings in each timeslot between now and then to become aware of, and raise any issues with, this change. +1 for moving back to single meeting time, +2 for this being sad. I really wish we could include folks in those timezones, but it has proven to be mostly ineffective within the project. // jim Regards, Devananda On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 6:14 PM Michael Davies mich...@the-davies.net wrote: On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Ruby Loo rlooya...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe the question is better posed to those folks -- was it useful or not? And if not, why? Because the date/time still didn't work, or because not enough (or the right persons) weren't there so their issues of interest weren't discussed, or they wouldn't have attended anyway, or ? And if it was useful, for how many was it useful? (Devananda's poll will capture some of that info.) I found it useful - it's nice to be awake at meeting time :) There's certainly a subset of the team that I never overlap with now, which is a shame, but timezones present challenges for a geographically dispersed team. Previously the meeting was at 4:30am (or 5:30am depending upon daylight savings), which was quite hard, but I did make it most weeks. The new timeslot of 2:30am/pm (3:30am/pm) is certainly only achievable for me every other week (no surprises for guessing which one :) I think it's great that we try and accommodate contributors from all around the globe! Michael... -- Michael Davies mich...@the-davies.net Rackspace Cloud Builders Australia __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [Ironic] how about those alternating meeting times?
This is a much-overdue follow up to this poll, which got 17 responses. TL;DR: The poll indicated that most responders did not personally find the 0500 meeting helpful. Reviewing the meeting logs for the last six months shows significantly lower core attendance in those meetings. Informal feedback confirms both of these conclusions. As much as I want to be inclusive of contributors for whom the 1700GMT Monday meetings do not work, I feel that the 0500GMT Tuesday meetings have not been effective and would like to propose that we change back to a single meeting time. Longer summary: In that poll, I asked four questions to gauge both individual attendance and benefit, as well as perceived benefit to others. I think the results are quite interesting. (Note that every question had a free form choice as well, which I'm not tallying here) Were you able to attend the meetings? +4 Yes, I attended most or all of the metings -10 No. Because of the timing, I was only able to attend half of the meetings. Were the alternating times helpful to you personally? +5 Yes. I attended both Monday and Tuesday meetings and found this split helpful. -10 No. I was unable to attend half of the meetings and found some or all of them to be non-productive. Do you believe that alternating meeting times was helpful to the project overall, regardless of your own availability? +11 Yes - 4 No Do you think we should continue to split meeting times? +10 Yes -3 No In the freeform responses, I got suggestions to split out subteams (we've done this for the neutron integration work), as well as a few comments that DST impact was significant and preventing attendance to half the meetings, and suggestions to move the meeting a few hours this way or that way. Lately, I have missed several of the 0500GMT meetings due to tiredness, travel, or other things. I notice that very few of the core team are there, too (many thanks to Jim for consistently being there and leading it when I'm not). While I think it is important to have a meeting time that serves Haomeng and Ramki and Michael Davies (and everyone else in APAC), these meetings do not consistently have a majority of cores present and therefor can't reasonably make any decisions. And on the flip side, these impact the 1700GMT meetings in that those have lost a lot of momentum, seemingly because the US/EU regulars miss every other week. So, though it saddens me, I would like to propose that we change back to a single meeting time effective the week following our midcycle (Aug 10th). That will give folks two meetings in each timeslot between now and then to become aware of, and raise any issues with, this change. Regards, Devananda On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 6:14 PM Michael Davies mich...@the-davies.net wrote: On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Ruby Loo rlooya...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe the question is better posed to those folks -- was it useful or not? And if not, why? Because the date/time still didn't work, or because not enough (or the right persons) weren't there so their issues of interest weren't discussed, or they wouldn't have attended anyway, or ? And if it was useful, for how many was it useful? (Devananda's poll will capture some of that info.) I found it useful - it's nice to be awake at meeting time :) There's certainly a subset of the team that I never overlap with now, which is a shame, but timezones present challenges for a geographically dispersed team. Previously the meeting was at 4:30am (or 5:30am depending upon daylight savings), which was quite hard, but I did make it most weeks. The new timeslot of 2:30am/pm (3:30am/pm) is certainly only achievable for me every other week (no surprises for guessing which one :) I think it's great that we try and accommodate contributors from all around the globe! Michael... -- Michael Davies mich...@the-davies.net Rackspace Cloud Builders Australia __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [Ironic] how about those alternating meeting times?
On 11 May 2015 at 18:39, Devananda van der Veen devananda@gmail.com wrote: Lucas inspired me to take a look at the raw numbers ... so I hacked up a little python to digest all our meeting logs since we made the switch to alternating times. in particular, I'd like to point out the number of meetings with less than half of our core review team present, ie, where we didn't have quorum to make any decisions. There were 6 on Tuesdays (two thirds of all Tuesday meetings), but only 1 on Monday (it was the openstack vacation week). A few stats below, hackish code here: http://paste.openstack.org/show/220234/ # of meetings by day: Monday: 11 Tuesday: 9 Total lines in IRC during the meetings by day: Monday: 3793 Tuesday: 2475 Unique attendees per day: Monday: total: 54 - cores: 9 Tuesday: total: 32 - cores: 5 Thanks for bringing this up and getting those numbers. The reason for the alternating times was to (among other things?) accommodate our contributors in EMEA better [1]. Maybe the question is better posed to those folks -- was it useful or not? And if not, why? Because the date/time still didn't work, or because not enough (or the right persons) weren't there so their issues of interest weren't discussed, or they wouldn't have attended anyway, or ? And if it was useful, for how many was it useful? (Devananda's poll will capture some of that info.) I don't attend the Tuesday meetings but I also don't recall any decisions/discussions at those meetings that made me think that I disagreed strongly or couldn't provide feedback after the meeting so I am happy to have them continue if it is useful to others/the project :-) (Or maybe that's cuz there wasn't quorum to make decisions.) --ruby [1] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-November/050838.html __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [Ironic] how about those alternating meeting times?
On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Ruby Loo rlooya...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe the question is better posed to those folks -- was it useful or not? And if not, why? Because the date/time still didn't work, or because not enough (or the right persons) weren't there so their issues of interest weren't discussed, or they wouldn't have attended anyway, or ? And if it was useful, for how many was it useful? (Devananda's poll will capture some of that info.) I found it useful - it's nice to be awake at meeting time :) There's certainly a subset of the team that I never overlap with now, which is a shame, but timezones present challenges for a geographically dispersed team. Previously the meeting was at 4:30am (or 5:30am depending upon daylight savings), which was quite hard, but I did make it most weeks. The new timeslot of 2:30am/pm (3:30am/pm) is certainly only achievable for me every other week (no surprises for guessing which one :) I think it's great that we try and accommodate contributors from all around the globe! Michael... -- Michael Davies mich...@the-davies.net Rackspace Cloud Builders Australia __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [Ironic] how about those alternating meeting times?
Lucas inspired me to take a look at the raw numbers ... so I hacked up a little python to digest all our meeting logs since we made the switch to alternating times. in particular, I'd like to point out the number of meetings with less than half of our core review team present, ie, where we didn't have quorum to make any decisions. There were 6 on Tuesdays (two thirds of all Tuesday meetings), but only 1 on Monday (it was the openstack vacation week). A few stats below, hackish code here: http://paste.openstack.org/show/220234/ # of meetings by day: Monday: 11 Tuesday: 9 Total lines in IRC during the meetings by day: Monday: 3793 Tuesday: 2475 Unique attendees per day: Monday: total: 54 - cores: 9 Tuesday: total: 32 - cores: 5 On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 10:21 AM Devananda van der Veen devananda@gmail.com wrote: At the Paris summit, we discussed and eventually agreed to try out alternating meeting times. So, for the last ~6mo, each week our IRC meeting has alternated between Monday evening and Tuesday morning UTC (10am PT and 10pm PT Mondays). I'd like us to review how well this has - or has not - worked, so I've created a poll to gather input and help decide if we should continue with the alternating meetings. Please take a minute to fill this out: http://goo.gl/forms/nvbWdOZMFY And please reply to this thread if you have any comments or observations you'd like to share in addition to the responses on that form. Thanks! -Deva __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
