Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-10-04 Thread Mike Perez
On 10:45 Sep 12, Mike Perez wrote: > Hey all, > > Back in a joint meeting with the TC, UC, Foundation and The Board it was > decided as an area of OpenStack to focus was Simplifying OpenStack. This > intentionally was very broad so the community can kick start the conversation > and help tackle

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-29 Thread Fox, Kevin M
: Friday, September 29, 2017 6:43 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions); Rochelle Grober Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack On 09/26/2017 09:13 PM, Rochelle Grober wrote: > Clint Byrum wrote: >> Excerpts from Jonathan Proulx's message o

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-29 Thread Ben Nemec
On 09/26/2017 09:13 PM, Rochelle Grober wrote: Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Jonathan Proulx's message of 2017-09-26 16:01:26 -0400: On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:16:30PM -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: :OpenStack is big. Big enough that a user will likely be fine with learning :a new set of

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-27 Thread Gyorgy Szombathelyi
Hi, > The install docs still suggest hand configuring machines in 2017. It’s only > after > people fall down that snake pit that they find projects like > TripleO/Ansible/Puppet/Chef, and wonder why everyone doesn’t use this > stuff. I just wondering, too, but about a different thing: the

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Rochelle Grober
Clint Byrum wrote: > Excerpts from Jonathan Proulx's message of 2017-09-26 16:01:26 -0400: > > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:16:30PM -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: > > > > :OpenStack is big. Big enough that a user will likely be fine with > > learning :a new set of tools to manage it. > > > > New users in

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Clint Byrum
Excerpts from Jonathan Proulx's message of 2017-09-26 16:01:26 -0400: > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:16:30PM -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: > > :OpenStack is big. Big enough that a user will likely be fine with learning > :a new set of tools to manage it. > > New users in the startup sense of new,

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Samuel Cassiba
Michał Jastrzębski wrote: On 26 September 2017 at 13:54, Alex Schultz wrote: On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Michał Jastrzębski wrote: In Kolla, during this PTG, we came up with idea of scenario based testing+documentation.

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Michał Jastrzębski
On 26 September 2017 at 13:54, Alex Schultz wrote: > On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Michał Jastrzębski wrote: >> In Kolla, during this PTG, we came up with idea of scenario based >> testing+documentation. Basically what we want to do is to provide set >>

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Alex Schultz
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Michał Jastrzębski wrote: > In Kolla, during this PTG, we came up with idea of scenario based > testing+documentation. Basically what we want to do is to provide set > of kolla configurations, howtos and tempest configs to test out > different

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Jonathan Proulx
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 01:34:14PM -0700, Michał Jastrzębski wrote: :In Kolla, during this PTG, we came up with idea of scenario based :testing+documentation. Basically what we want to do is to provide set :of kolla configurations, howtos and tempest configs to test out :different "constellations"

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Michał Jastrzębski
In Kolla, during this PTG, we came up with idea of scenario based testing+documentation. Basically what we want to do is to provide set of kolla configurations, howtos and tempest configs to test out different "constellations" or use-cases. If, instead of in Kolla, do these in cross-community

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Jonathan Proulx
On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:16:30PM -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: :OpenStack is big. Big enough that a user will likely be fine with learning :a new set of tools to manage it. New users in the startup sense of new, probably. People with entrenched environments, I doubt it. But OpenStack is big. Big

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Jay Pipes
On 09/26/2017 02:04 AM, Blair Bethwaite wrote: I've been watching this thread and I think we've already seen an excellent and uncontroversial suggestion towards simplifying initial deployment of OS - that was to push towards encoding Constellations into the deployment and/or config management

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Clint Byrum
Excerpts from Samuel Cassiba's message of 2017-09-25 17:27:25 -0700: > > > On Sep 25, 2017, at 16:52, Clint Byrum wrote: > > > > Excerpts from Jonathan D. Proulx's message of 2017-09-25 11:18:51 -0400: > >> On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 12:05:38AM -0700, Adam Lawson wrote: > >> >

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Samuel Cassiba
> On Sep 25, 2017, at 22:44, Adam Lawson wrote: > > Hey Jay, > I think a GUI with a default config is a good start. Much would need to > happen to enable that of course but that's where my mind goes. Any talk about > 'default' kind of infringes on what we've all strived to

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-26 Thread Blair Bethwaite
I've been watching this thread and I think we've already seen an excellent and uncontroversial suggestion towards simplifying initial deployment of OS - that was to push towards encoding Constellations into the deployment and/or config management projects. On 26 September 2017 at 15:44, Adam

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-25 Thread Adam Lawson
Hey Jay, I think a GUI with a default config is a good start. Much would need to happen to enable that of course but that's where my mind goes. Any talk about 'default' kind of infringes on what we've all strived to embrace; a cloud architecture without bakes in assumptions. A default-anything

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-25 Thread Samuel Cassiba
> On Sep 25, 2017, at 16:52, Clint Byrum wrote: > > Excerpts from Jonathan D. Proulx's message of 2017-09-25 11:18:51 -0400: >> On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 12:05:38AM -0700, Adam Lawson wrote: >> >> :Lastly, I do think GUI's make deployments easier and because of that, I >> :feel

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-25 Thread Clint Byrum
Excerpts from Jonathan D. Proulx's message of 2017-09-25 11:18:51 -0400: > On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 12:05:38AM -0700, Adam Lawson wrote: > > :Lastly, I do think GUI's make deployments easier and because of that, I > :feel they're critical. There is more than one vendor whose built and >

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-25 Thread Jonathan D. Proulx
On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 12:05:38AM -0700, Adam Lawson wrote: :Lastly, I do think GUI's make deployments easier and because of that, I :feel they're critical. There is more than one vendor whose built and :distributes a free GUI to ease OpenStack deployment and management. That's :a good start but

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-24 Thread Jay Pipes
Do you have any specific suggestions on things our community can do to encourage adoption? I hear lots of complaints but not many specific suggestions. -jay On Sep 23, 2017 3:07 AM, "Adam Lawson" wrote: > Quick note (started quick anyway) since I haven't been as active on

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-23 Thread Adam Lawson
Quick note (started quick anyway) since I haven't been as active on this list as I have in the past. Two things: 1. Great topic and addresses a historical, persistent well-known problem with OpenStack - complexity. Technology is useless if it's so complex new organizations can't get it

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-21 Thread Clint Byrum
Excerpts from Jeremy Stanley's message of 2017-09-21 16:17:00 +: > On 2017-09-20 17:39:38 -0700 (-0700), Clint Byrum wrote: > [...] > > Something about common use cases and the exact mix of > > projects + configuration to get there, and testing it? Help? > [...] > > Maybe you're thinking of

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-21 Thread Jeremy Stanley
On 2017-09-20 17:39:38 -0700 (-0700), Clint Byrum wrote: [...] > Something about common use cases and the exact mix of > projects + configuration to get there, and testing it? Help? [...] Maybe you're thinking of the "constellations" suggestion? It found its way into the TC vision statement,

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-20 Thread Clint Byrum
Wading in a bit late as I've been off-list for a while, but I have thoughts here. Excerpts from Jay Pipes's message of 2017-09-13 13:44:55 -0400: > On 09/12/2017 06:53 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote: > > Mike, > > > > Great intiative, unfortunately I wasn't able to attend it, however I > > have some

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-15 Thread Mike Perez
On 15:53 Sep 12, Boris Pavlovic wrote: > Mike, > > Great intiative, unfortunately I wasn't able to attend it, however I have > some thoughts... > You can't simplify OpenStack just by fixing few issues that are described > in the etherpad mostly.. Definitely agree that it's not going to be a

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-15 Thread Mike Perez
Hey all, I would like to encourage people from different teams to add items of things they learned at the PTG about simplifying their own projects. Maybe we can see some themes that can contribute to community wide goals? https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/simplifying-os — Mike Perez On

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-14 Thread Boris Pavlovic
Jay, OK, I'll bite. This doesn't sound like a constructive discussion. Bye Bye. Best regards, Boris Pavlovic On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 8:50 AM, Jay Pipes wrote: > OK, I'll bite. > > On 09/13/2017 08:56 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote: > >> Jay, >> >> All that you say exactly

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-14 Thread Jay Pipes
OK, I'll bite. On 09/13/2017 08:56 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote: Jay, All that you say exactly explains the reason why more and more companies are leaving OpenStack. All that I say? The majority of what I was "saying" was actually asking you to back up your statements with actual proof points

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-13 Thread Samuel Cassiba
On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote: > Mike, > > Great intiative, unfortunately I wasn't able to attend it, however I have > some thoughts... > You can't simplify OpenStack just by fixing few issues that are described in > the etherpad mostly.. This is

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-13 Thread Boris Pavlovic
Jay, All that you say exactly explains the reason why more and more companies are leaving OpenStack. Companies and actually end users care only about their things and how can they get their job done. They want thing that they can run and support easily and that resolves their problems. They

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-13 Thread Jay Pipes
On 09/12/2017 06:53 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote: Mike, Great intiative, unfortunately I wasn't able to attend it, however I have some thoughts... You can't simplify OpenStack just by fixing few issues that are described in the etherpad mostly.. TC should work on shrinking the OpenStack use

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-12 Thread Boris Pavlovic
Mike, Great intiative, unfortunately I wasn't able to attend it, however I have some thoughts... You can't simplify OpenStack just by fixing few issues that are described in the etherpad mostly.. TC should work on shrinking the OpenStack use cases and moving towards the product (box) complete

Re: [openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

2017-09-12 Thread Mike Perez
Hey all, The session is over. I’m hanging near registration if anyone wants to discuss things. Shout out to John for coming by on discussions with simplifying dependencies. I welcome more packagers to join the discussion. https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/simplifying-os — Mike Perez On