Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Nicholas Chase]

On 11/21/2013 4:43 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:


The trick is, such coverage requires editors with a deep technical
knowledge, both to be able to determine significant news from marketing
noise *and* to be able to deep dive into a new feature and make an
article out of it that makes a good read for developers or OpenStack
deployers. It's also a full-time job, even if some of those deep-dive
articles could just be contributed by their developers.

LWN is an exception rather than the rule in the tech press. It would be
absolutely awesome if we managed to build something like it to cover
OpenStack, but finding the right people (the right skill set + the will
and the time to do it) will be, I fear, extremely difficult.

Thoughts ? Volunteers ?


(raises hand)

As it happens, according to my job description, doing a "deep dive into 
a new feature and make an article out of it that makes a good read for 
developers or OpenStack deployers") IS my full time job, and as of 
yesterday, so is keeping up with "weekly technical news that would cover 
updates from major projects". :)  The information site's just emerging 
from beta (when I get back after Thanksgiving, likely) but I'm sure we 
can work something out.


So I'm happy to head this up, if nobody else has time.

  Nick




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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Mark McLoughlin]

On Thu, 2013-11-21 at 10:43 +0100, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> Stefano Maffulli wrote:
> > On 11/19/2013 09:33 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote:
> >> The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have
> >> "story" wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that
> >> contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road
> >> map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what
> >> changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map
> >> of the project.
> > 
> > I like the idea.
> > 
> > I have received requests to include high level summaries from all
> > projects in the weekly newsletter but it's quite impossible for me to do
> > that as I don't have enough understanding of each project to extrapolate
> > the significant news from the noise. [...]
> 
> This is an interesting point. From various discussions I had with people
> over the last year, the thing the development community is really really
> after is weekly technical news that would cover updates from major
> projects as well as deep dives into new features, tech conference CFPs,
> etc. The reference in the area (and only example I have) is LWN
> (lwn.net) and their awesome weekly coverage of what happens in Linux
> kernel development and beyond.
> 
> The trick is, such coverage requires editors with a deep technical
> knowledge, both to be able to determine significant news from marketing
> noise *and* to be able to deep dive into a new feature and make an
> article out of it that makes a good read for developers or OpenStack
> deployers. It's also a full-time job, even if some of those deep-dive
> articles could just be contributed by their developers.
> 
> LWN is an exception rather than the rule in the tech press. It would be
> absolutely awesome if we managed to build something like it to cover
> OpenStack, but finding the right people (the right skill set + the will
> and the time to do it) will be, I fear, extremely difficult.
> 
> Thoughts ? Volunteers ?

Yeah, I think there's a huge opportunity for something like this. Look
at the volume of interesting stuff that's going on on this list.
Highlighting and summarising some of the more important and interesting
of these discussions in high quality articles would be incredibly
useful.

It will be hard to pull off though. You need good quality writing but,
more importantly, really strong editorial control who understands what
people want to read.

Mark.


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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Thierry Carrez]

Stefano Maffulli wrote:
> On 11/19/2013 09:33 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote:
>> The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have
>> "story" wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that
>> contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road
>> map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what
>> changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map
>> of the project.
> 
> I like the idea.
> 
> I have received requests to include high level summaries from all
> projects in the weekly newsletter but it's quite impossible for me to do
> that as I don't have enough understanding of each project to extrapolate
> the significant news from the noise. [...]

This is an interesting point. From various discussions I had with people
over the last year, the thing the development community is really really
after is weekly technical news that would cover updates from major
projects as well as deep dives into new features, tech conference CFPs,
etc. The reference in the area (and only example I have) is LWN
(lwn.net) and their awesome weekly coverage of what happens in Linux
kernel development and beyond.

The trick is, such coverage requires editors with a deep technical
knowledge, both to be able to determine significant news from marketing
noise *and* to be able to deep dive into a new feature and make an
article out of it that makes a good read for developers or OpenStack
deployers. It's also a full-time job, even if some of those deep-dive
articles could just be contributed by their developers.

LWN is an exception rather than the rule in the tech press. It would be
absolutely awesome if we managed to build something like it to cover
OpenStack, but finding the right people (the right skill set + the will
and the time to do it) will be, I fear, extremely difficult.

Thoughts ? Volunteers ?

-- 
Thierry Carrez (ttx)

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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Clint Byrum]

Excerpts from Boris Pavlovic's message of 2013-11-21 00:16:04 -0800:
> Clint,
> 
> The main idea is to have processed by human history of project.
> 
> It is really impossible to aggregate automatically all data from different
> sources:
> IRC (main project chat/dev chat/meetings), Mailing Lists, Code, Reviews,
> Summit discussions, using project specific knowledge and history of  the
> project.To get short messages like here
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates
> 
> So the idea is that in each project we should have the persons that will
> aggregate for others all these sources and present really short, high level
> view of situation. And these messages should be in one place (wiki/or other
> platform (not mailing lists)) for project. So we will be able quick to get
> what happens with project for last few months and what are current goals.
> This will be also very very useful for new contributors.
> 
> So Aggregation of data is good (and should be done), but it is not enough..
> 

I did not suggest aggregation of data. We have TONS of that, and we
don't need more.

I suggested a very simple way for project leaders and members to maintain
the current story during the meetings.

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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Boris Pavlovic]

Clint,

The main idea is to have processed by human history of project.

It is really impossible to aggregate automatically all data from different
sources:
IRC (main project chat/dev chat/meetings), Mailing Lists, Code, Reviews,
Summit discussions, using project specific knowledge and history of  the
project.To get short messages like here
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates

So the idea is that in each project we should have the persons that will
aggregate for others all these sources and present really short, high level
view of situation. And these messages should be in one place (wiki/or other
platform (not mailing lists)) for project. So we will be able quick to get
what happens with project for last few months and what are current goals.
This will be also very very useful for new contributors.

So Aggregation of data is good (and should be done), but it is not enough..


Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic




On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Clint Byrum  wrote:

> Excerpts from Boris Pavlovic's message of 2013-11-19 21:33:08 -0800:
> > Hi stackers,
> >
> >
> > Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at
> > least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing
> > all patches in all interesting projects to get high level understanding
> of
> > what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at
> > least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =)
> >
> >
> > The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have
> > "story" wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that
> > contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road
> > map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what
> > changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map
> of
> > the project.
>
> I like the idea, but I don't like having _more_ wiki pages.
>
> I think the weekly IRC meeting would be a good place for this to be
> maintained.
>
> We can have an agenda item "Updates". Before the meeting people can add
> any and the chair can paste those in. Then any that people come up with
> during the meeting can be stated by attendees.
>
>  #topic Updates
>  * Core reviewer added: foo-person, congratulations!
>  * Completed py3k fixes for python-barclient
>
> This way the updates are sent along with any other relevant discussions
> from the meeting, and subscribers can still just follow pages they're
> already used to following.
>
> Meanwhile the Updates topic can be automatically extracted from the
> meeting logs and highlighted in a special section of the main project
> wiki page. Perhaps the same automation can maintain a page which includes
> all of the other projects' updates for a one stop shop.
>
> If people like this idea and want to try it out I'd be happy to throw
> together a script to do the log extraction.
>
> Anyway, less manual == more fun == more engagement.
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Clint Byrum]

Excerpts from Boris Pavlovic's message of 2013-11-19 21:33:08 -0800:
> Hi stackers,
> 
> 
> Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at
> least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing
> all patches in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of
> what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at
> least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =)
> 
> 
> The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have
> "story" wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that
> contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road
> map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what
> changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of
> the project.

I like the idea, but I don't like having _more_ wiki pages.

I think the weekly IRC meeting would be a good place for this to be
maintained.

We can have an agenda item "Updates". Before the meeting people can add
any and the chair can paste those in. Then any that people come up with
during the meeting can be stated by attendees.

 #topic Updates
 * Core reviewer added: foo-person, congratulations!
 * Completed py3k fixes for python-barclient

This way the updates are sent along with any other relevant discussions
from the meeting, and subscribers can still just follow pages they're
already used to following.

Meanwhile the Updates topic can be automatically extracted from the
meeting logs and highlighted in a special section of the main project
wiki page. Perhaps the same automation can maintain a page which includes
all of the other projects' updates for a one stop shop.

If people like this idea and want to try it out I'd be happy to throw
together a script to do the log extraction.

Anyway, less manual == more fun == more engagement.

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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Nick Chase]

On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 6:45 PM, Stefano Maffulli wrote:

> I like the idea.
>

I love this idea.

...

Not sure the wiki is the best place for this sort of stuff (wiki pages
> are awful for anything but quick notes): since we want this content to
> be delivered and produced easily I would suggest setting up something
> that resembles more a commit log than a wiki page. A short, brief dump
> of text, written by developers or people involved, using tools they're
> already familiar with. I'd prefer a short email to the list, with a tag
> in the subject instead of a wiki page.
>
> I'd be glad to further distribute them in the weekly newsletter.
>

We definitely want to make it as easy as possible for people to contribute,
and to get the information.  We would be happy to contribute space on our
OpenStack information site (with a feed if people want it) and resources to
make this as easy to contribute to and as useful as possible.

Does anybody else want to head this up?  If not, I would be more than happy
to take the point.

  Nick
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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Stefano Maffulli]

On 11/19/2013 09:33 PM, Boris Pavlovic wrote:
> The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have
> "story" wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that
> contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road
> map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what
> changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map
> of the project.

I like the idea.

I have received requests to include high level summaries from all
projects in the weekly newsletter but it's quite impossible for me to do
that as I don't have enough understanding of each project to extrapolate
the significant news from the noise. The links to all projects activity
I recently added to the weekly newsletter are an attempt to address the
issue.

Not sure the wiki is the best place for this sort of stuff (wiki pages
are awful for anything but quick notes): since we want this content to
be delivered and produced easily I would suggest setting up something
that resembles more a commit log than a wiki page. A short, brief dump
of text, written by developers or people involved, using tools they're
already familiar with. I'd prefer a short email to the list, with a tag
in the subject instead of a wiki page.

I'd be glad to further distribute them in the weekly newsletter.

/stef

-- 
Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org

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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Dolph Mathews]

Hmm, I was sort of thinking along the same lines after writing my
post-summit summary for keystone:

  https://gist.github.com/dolph/7366031

Granted this is the first time I've written such a document, I could see
this evolving into a regularly updated document on the long term direction
that keystone-core is in agreement on. Weekly updates is a bit demanding
(our direction isn't necessarily tweaked on a weekly basis and actual
progress is already tracked via wishlist bugs and blueprints), but I'd be
interested in participating in a formalized cross-project approach to
communicating this information.


On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:

> Boris Pavlovic wrote:
> > The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have
> > "story" wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that
> > contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road
> > map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what
> > changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map
> > of the project.
> > [...]
>
> I like the idea, can be very short updates, I don't think it should be
> automated (and it doesn't have to be every week if there is nothing to
> say).
>
> Ideally we would have a single forum for all of those, rather than have
> to fish for each appropriate wiki page. If everyone posted to planet.o.o
> that would be a start... Some other aggregator or site (like the one
> Flavio suggested) could also be used.
>
> --
> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
>
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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Jay Pipes]

On 11/20/2013 12:33 AM, Boris Pavlovic wrote:

Hi stackers,


Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at
least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and
reviewing all patches in all interesting projects to get high level
understanding of what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even
impossible task (at least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =)


The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have
"story" wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that
contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road
map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what
changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map
of the project.

E.g. we start doing this in Rally:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates


I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few
persons) that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates
each week.


+1 Great idea, Boris. Also like the follow up ideas from Rocky about 
tagging for cross-project referencing.


Best,
-jay


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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Rochelle.Grober]

+1

I'd also love to see a tag or keyword associated with items that (affects 
{project x,y,z}) or (possibly affects {project x,y,z} to highlight areas in 
need of collaboration between teams.  There is so much going on cross-project 
these days, that if the project team thinks the change has side effects or 
interaction changes beyond the internal project, they should raise a flag.

--Rocky

From: Boris Pavlovic [mailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 9:33 PM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List
Subject: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

Hi stackers,


Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at least I 
would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing all patches 
in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of what is happing 
in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at least for me). 
Especially after 2 weeks vacation =)


The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have "story" 
wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most 
interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. 
So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get 
better understanding of high level road map of the project.

E.g. we start doing this in Rally: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates


I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few persons) 
that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates each week.



Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic
--
Mirantis Inc.
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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Thierry Carrez]

Boris Pavlovic wrote:
> The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have
> "story" wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that
> contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road
> map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what
> changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map
> of the project.
> [...]

I like the idea, can be very short updates, I don't think it should be
automated (and it doesn't have to be every week if there is nothing to say).

Ideally we would have a single forum for all of those, rather than have
to fish for each appropriate wiki page. If everyone posted to planet.o.o
that would be a start... Some other aggregator or site (like the one
Flavio suggested) could also be used.

-- 
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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Flavio Percoco]

On 20/11/13 09:33 +0400, Boris Pavlovic wrote:

Hi stackers,


Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at least I
would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing all patches
in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of what is happing
in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at least for me).
Especially after 2 weeks vacation =)


The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have "story"
wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most
interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week.
So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get
better understanding of high level road map of the project.

E.g. we start doing this in Rally: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/
Updates


I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few persons)
that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates each week. 



I like the idea. We've been doing so for Marconi here[0] but I agree
that a more common place makes sense.

The thing I like about thoughtstreams is that members can have their
own stream and publish updates whenever they've something to say.
They'll all end up in the combined stream, which also has an RSS feed
that can be consumed.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure this is also possible with other tools.

Cheers,
FF

[0] https://thoughtstreams.io/combined/marconi-progress-and-updates/



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--
@flaper87
Flavio Percoco

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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Joshua Harlow]

Agreed I like the idea.

It reminds me of the blog the solum team is setting up. I think I asked then 
when they announced that blog if there was plans to make it easy for other 
projects to also have there own supported blog.

http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-October/017977.html

Maybe we should see how that could be done since the update page is pretty 
similar to a blog (and a blog can include other things as well, like "tips and 
tricks" for using rally for example).

Thoughts?

Sent from my really tiny device...

On Nov 19, 2013, at 9:36 PM, "Boris Pavlovic" 
mailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com>> wrote:

Hi stackers,


Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at least I 
would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing all patches 
in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of what is happing 
in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at least for me). 
Especially after 2 weeks vacation =)


The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have "story" 
wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that contains most 
interesting updates for the last week, and high level road map for future week. 
So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what changed in project, and get 
better understanding of high level road map of the project.

E.g. we start doing this in Rally: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates


I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few persons) 
that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates each week.



Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic
--
Mirantis Inc.
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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Tom Fifield]

Love the idea Boris - a nice read :)

Regards,

Tom

On 20/11/13 16:45, Michael Bright wrote:

+1


On 20 November 2013 06:33, Boris Pavlovic mailto:bpavlo...@mirantis.com>> wrote:

Hi stackers,


Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that
at least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and
reviewing all patches in all interesting projects to get high level
understanding of what is happing in project now, is quite hard or
even impossible task (at least for me). Especially after 2 weeks
vacation =)


The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should
have "story" wiki page. It means to publish every week one short
message that contains most interesting updates for the last week,
and high level road map for future week. So reading this for 10-15
minutes you can see what changed in project, and get better
understanding of high level road map of the project.

E.g. we start doing this in Rally:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates


I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or
few persons) that will track all changes in project and prepare such
updates each week.



Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic
--
Mirantis Inc.

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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Alex Glikson]

I think the idea in general is very good (I would be a heavy consumer of 
such a thing myself). I am not sure how sustainable is to do it manually 
though, especially for larger projects. 
Maybe there is a reasonable way to automate this.. For example, if we 
could generate a 'dashboard' for each project, aggregating weekly progress 
with patches and blueprints, as well as mailing list threads (potentially 
grouped by tags associated with projects). Maybe stackalytics could be 
used as a platform..

Regards,
Alex




From:   Boris Pavlovic 
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List 
, 
Date:   20/11/2013 07:34 AM
Subject:[openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea



Hi stackers,


Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at 
least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing 
all patches in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of 
what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at 
least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =)


The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have 
"story" wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that 
contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road 
map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what 
changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of 
the project.

E.g. we start doing this in Rally: 
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates


I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few 
persons) that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates 
each week. 



Best regards,
Boris Pavlovic
--
Mirantis Inc. ___
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Re: [openstack-dev] Propose "project story wiki" idea

[Michael Bright]

+1


On 20 November 2013 06:33, Boris Pavlovic  wrote:

> Hi stackers,
>
>
> Currently what I see is growing amount of interesting projects, that at
> least I would like to track. But reading all mailing lists, and reviewing
> all patches in all interesting projects to get high level understanding of
> what is happing in project now, is quite hard or even impossible task (at
> least for me). Especially after 2 weeks vacation =)
>
>
> The idea of this proposal is that every OpenStack project should have
> "story" wiki page. It means to publish every week one short message that
> contains most interesting updates for the last week, and high level road
> map for future week. So reading this for 10-15 minutes you can see what
> changed in project, and get better understanding of high level road map of
> the project.
>
> E.g. we start doing this in Rally:
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Rally/Updates
>
>
> I think that the best way to organize this, is to have person (or few
> persons) that will track all changes in project and prepare such updates
> each week.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Boris Pavlovic
> --
> Mirantis Inc.
>
> ___
> OpenStack-dev mailing list
> OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>
>
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