Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Donald Talton]

I think it's good to move the meeting around out of fairness. Although like you 
said, I would not be able to justify travel expenses for my staff (US-based) 
for a mid-cycle meetup.

-Original Message-
From: Jonathan Proulx [mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu] 
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 8:51 AM
To: openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
Subject: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

Hi All,

1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on #openstack-meeting, 
we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I hope to raise this issue 
the...

It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops Meetup in 
Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously all mid cycles have 
been US based.

Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather than 
staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it being 'opposite' 
the summit location.

This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer of the same 
people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.

Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think this 
needs real time discussion)

-Jon


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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Jonathan Proulx]

Let me restate the question a bit as I think I'm hearing two different
responses that may be getting conflated.

Option 1:  There's a single Ops Midcycle that shifts around and we
look at ways to increase remote participation. (obviously this doesn't
preclude other meetups)

Option 2: There are multiple Ops Meetups around midcycle (presumably
starting with North America, Asia, and Europe) and we look at ways of
coordinationg those re reduce duplication of effort any synthesis of
results.

I was advocating option 1 mostly because I think synthesis of option 2
is harder than stepping up preparation of etherpads before sessions
and review of them afterward is which is motly the level of remote
participation I'd envision in the first case (possibly also running
some email threads on any reccommendations that come out and seem
controvertial for any reason)

So far though seems the tide is runiing toward option 2, multiple
meet-ups. Though wee're still at a very small sample size.

-Jon


On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50:52AM -0500, Jonathan Proulx wrote:
:Hi All,
:
:1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
:#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
:hope to raise this issue the...
:
:It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
:Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
:all mid cycles have been US based.
:
:Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
:than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
:being 'opposite' the summit location.
:
:This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
:of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
:
:Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
:this needs real time discussion)
:
:-Jon
:
:
:-- 
:
:1. 
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Re: [Openstack-operators] cinder-api with rbd driver ignores ceph.conf

[Saverio Proto]

Thanks,

I tried to backport this patch to Juno but it is not that trivial for
me. I have 2 tests failing, about volume cloning and create a volume
without layering.

https://github.com/zioproto/cinder/commit/0d26cae585f54c7bda5ba5b423d8d9ddc87e0b34
https://github.com/zioproto/cinder/commits/backport-ceph-object-map

I guess I will stop trying to backport this patch and wait for the
upgrade to Kilo of our Openstack installation to have the feature.

If anyone ever backported this feature to Juno it would be nice to
know, so I can use the patch to generate deb packages.

thanks

Saverio

2015-11-12 17:55 GMT+01:00 Josh Durgin :
> On 11/12/2015 07:41 AM, Saverio Proto wrote:
>>
>> So here is my best guess.
>> Could be that I am missing this patch ?
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/openstack/cinder/commit/6211d8fa2033c2a607c20667110c5913cf60dd53
>
>
> Exactly, you need that patch for cinder to use rbd_default_features
> from ceph.conf instead of its own default of only layering.
>
> In infernalis and later version of ceph you can also add object map to
> existing rbd images via the 'rbd feature enable' and 'rbd object-map
> rebuild' commands.
>
> Josh
>
>> proto@controller:~$ apt-cache policy python-cinder
>> python-cinder:
>>Installed: 1:2014.2.3-0ubuntu1.1~cloud0
>>Candidate: 1:2014.2.3-0ubuntu1.1~cloud0
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Saverio
>>
>>
>>
>> 2015-11-12 16:25 GMT+01:00 Saverio Proto :
>>>
>>> Hello there,
>>>
>>> I am investigating why my cinder is slow deleting volumes.
>>>
>>> you might remember my email from few days ago with subject:
>>> "cinder volume_clear=zero makes sense with rbd ?"
>>>
>>> so it comes out that volume_clear has nothing to do with the rbd driver.
>>>
>>> cinder was not guilty, it was really ceph rbd slow itself to delete big
>>> volumes.
>>>
>>> I was able to reproduce the slowness just using the rbd client.
>>>
>>> I was also able to fix the slowness just using the rbd client :)
>>>
>>> This is fixed in ceph hammer release, introducing a new feature.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.sebastien-han.fr/blog/2015/07/06/ceph-enable-the-object-map-feature/
>>>
>>> Enabling the object map feature rbd is now super fast to delete large
>>> volumes.
>>>
>>> However how I am in trouble with cinder. Looks like my cinder-api
>>> (running juno here) ignores the changes in my ceph.conf file.
>>>
>>> cat cinder.conf | grep rbd
>>>
>>> volume_driver=cinder.volume.drivers.rbd.RBDDriver
>>> rbd_user=cinder
>>> rbd_max_clone_depth=5
>>> rbd_ceph_conf=/etc/ceph/ceph.conf
>>> rbd_flatten_volume_from_snapshot=False
>>> rbd_pool=volumes
>>> rbd_secret_uuid=secret
>>>
>>> But when I create a volume with cinder, The options in ceph.conf are
>>> ignored:
>>>
>>> cat /etc/ceph/ceph.conf | grep rbd
>>> rbd default format = 2
>>> rbd default features = 13
>>>
>>> But the volume:
>>>
>>> rbd image 'volume-78ca9968-77e8-4b68-9744-03b25b8068b1':
>>>  size 102400 MB in 25600 objects
>>>  order 22 (4096 kB objects)
>>>  block_name_prefix: rbd_data.533f4356fe034
>>>  format: 2
>>>  features: layering
>>>  flags:
>>>
>>>
>>> so my first question is:
>>>
>>> does anyone use cinder with rbd driver and object map feature enabled
>>> ? Does it work for anyone ?
>>>
>>> thank you
>>>
>>> Saverio
>>
>>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Erik McCormick]

I thought we were working toward a regional approach rather than
having an "official" single meetup. Are you proposing to scrap the
North America meetup entirely? What does official vs. unofficial
entail?

-Erik

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Jonathan Proulx  wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> 1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
> #openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
> hope to raise this issue the...
>
> It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
> Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
> all mid cycles have been US based.
>
> Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
> than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
> being 'opposite' the summit location.
>
> This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
> of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
>
> Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
> this needs real time discussion)
>
> -Jon
>
>
> --
>
> 1. 
> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>
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[Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Jonathan Proulx]

Hi All,

1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
hope to raise this issue the...

It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
all mid cycles have been US based.

Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
being 'opposite' the summit location.

This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.

Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
this needs real time discussion)

-Jon


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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Kruithof, Piet]

Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.

How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?

Piet




Piet Kruithof
Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
PTL, OpenStack UX project

"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong.”

H L Menken


From: Matt Jarvis 
>
Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
To: Jonathan Proulx >
Cc: 
"openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org"
 
>
Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the wider 
participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive thing, and there 
are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be had from European 
operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm sure the same is also 
true for Asia.

On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx 
> wrote:
Hi All,

1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
hope to raise this issue the...

It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
all mid cycles have been US based.

Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
being 'opposite' the summit location.

This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.

Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
this needs real time discussion)

-Jon


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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Tim Bell]

Multiple meetups in parallel does make it more difficult to get the PTLs and 
product working group involved. There have been many benefits from their work 
with operators and defining the roadmaps. 

It may be that not everyone can attend but there is also the opportunity for 
those who have never attended to come. These may also be those who were not 
able to make it to recent summits and would really benefit from the sharing of 
experiences beyond an ether pad.

Tim




On 16/11/15 17:11, "Donald Talton"  wrote:

>I'd second this idea. If we can gather the pertinent result from each meeting, 
>that would be ideal.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Edgar Magana [mailto:edgar.mag...@workday.com] 
>Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 9:10 AM
>To: Donald Talton; Jonathan Proulx; openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
>Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
>
>I am in the same position that Donald here. It is hard to justify that trip, 
>however I believe we can multiple Ops Meet-ups around the world without 
>expecting an official one.
>As long as during the meet-up the feedback is collected and open, it should be 
>enough to move forward.
>
>Edgar
>
>
>
>
>On 11/16/15, 8:04 AM, "Donald Talton"  wrote:
>
>>I think it's good to move the meeting around out of fairness. Although like 
>>you said, I would not be able to justify travel expenses for my staff 
>>(US-based) for a mid-cycle meetup.
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Jonathan Proulx [mailto:j...@csail.mit.edu] 
>>Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 8:51 AM
>>To: openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
>>Subject: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
>>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on 
>>#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I hope to 
>>raise this issue the...
>>
>>It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops Meetup in 
>>Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously all mid cycles 
>>have been US based.
>>
>>Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather than 
>>staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it being 
>>'opposite' the summit location.
>>
>>This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer of the same 
>>people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
>>
>>Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think this 
>>needs real time discussion)
>>
>>-Jon
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>
>>1. 
>>http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>>
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>>and intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. 
>>If you have received this email in error please delete it immediately.
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>>
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>intended solely for the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If 
>you have received this email in error please delete it immediately.
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Kruithof, Piet]

OK - thanks!  It actually works for the OpenStack UX team because we have
folks in most of those regions that would be able to attend.

It¹s worth noting that we should be consistent in how the operators are
engaged during the meetings so that the team is able to generalize across
regions. 

Piet




Piet Kruithof
Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
PTL, OpenStack UX project


"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and
wrong.²

H L Menken





On 11/16/15, 10:06 AM, "Jonathan Proulx"  wrote:

>On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55:33PM +, Kruithof, Piet wrote:
>:Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.
>:
>:How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?
>
>My basic question was One or Many.
>
>If Many then that's a further question, but probably 3 (north america,
>asia, europe)  or possibly 4 (+ south america)
>
>:
>:Piet
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:Piet Kruithof
>:Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
>:PTL, OpenStack UX project
>:
>:"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and
>wrong.²
>:
>:H L Menken
>:
>:
>:From: Matt Jarvis
>>
>:Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
>:To: Jonathan Proulx >
>:Cc: 
>"openstack-operators@lists.openstack.orgopenstack.org>" 
>openstack.org>>
>:Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
>:
>:+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the
>wider participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive
>thing, and there are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be
>had from European operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm
>sure the same is also true for Asia.
>:
>:On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx
>> wrote:
>:Hi All,
>:
>:1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
>:#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
>:hope to raise this issue the...
>:
>:It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
>:Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
>:all mid cycles have been US based.
>:
>:Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
>:than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
>:being 'opposite' the summit location.
>:
>:This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
>:of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
>:
>:Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
>:this needs real time discussion)
>:
>:-Jon
>:
>:
>:--
>:
>:1. 
>http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19
>405855436?aff=es2
>:
>:___
>:OpenStack-operators mailing list
>:OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.orgopenstack.org>
>:http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>:
>:
>:
>:--
>:Matt Jarvis
>:Head of Cloud Computing
>:DataCentred
>:Office: (+44)0161 8703985
>:Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
>:Email: 
>matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk
>:Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
>:
>:DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763
>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Jonathan Proulx]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:37:59AM -0700, Matt Fischer wrote:
:I think that sticking with a singular official one is the plan. It's
:difficult enough for the foundation to line up sponsors/hosts etc for a
:single meet-up. 

Thanks for bring that up.

I was just wondering howmuch Foundation resources went into making
these go and if dividing that were even feasible.

Sounds like this is a strong argument for one 'official' midcycle

-Jon

:I also think that there are some US/Asia folks that will
:attend a midcycle in Europe and by also hosting a competing one locally you
:may reduce the attendance at the main one which defeats the purpose. Those
:midcycles work best when we have lots of different voices providing input.
:
:On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Jonathan Proulx  wrote:
:
:> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55:33PM +, Kruithof, Piet wrote:
:> :Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.
:> :
:> :How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?
:>
:> My basic question was One or Many.
:>
:> If Many then that's a further question, but probably 3 (north america,
:> asia, europe)  or possibly 4 (+ south america)
:>
:> :
:> :Piet
:> :
:> :
:> :
:> :
:> :Piet Kruithof
:> :Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
:> :PTL, OpenStack UX project
:> :
:> :"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and
:> wrong.”
:> :
:> :H L Menken
:> :
:> :
:> :From: Matt Jarvis >
:> :Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
:> :To: Jonathan Proulx >
:> :Cc: "openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>" <
:> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>>
:> :Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
:> :
:> :+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the
:> wider participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive thing,
:> and there are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be had from
:> European operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm sure the
:> same is also true for Asia.
:> :
:> :On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx > wrote:
:> :Hi All,
:> :
:> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
:> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
:> :hope to raise this issue the...
:> :
:> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
:> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
:> :all mid cycles have been US based.
:> :
:> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
:> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
:> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
:> :
:> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
:> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
:> :
:> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
:> :this needs real time discussion)
:> :
:> :-Jon
:> :
:> :
:> :--
:> :
:> :1.
:> 
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:> :
:> :___
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:> :Head of Cloud Computing
:> :DataCentred
:> :Office: (+44)0161 8703985
:> :Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
:> :Email: matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk >
:> :Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
:> :
:> :DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763
:>
:> --
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[Openstack-operators] Fwd: OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Xav Paice]

For us NZ (and maybe Aus) folk to attend, getting to Europe is (literally)
twice the distance of US, but Asia is about the same (language aside).I
find the Summit really valuable in that a large and diverse group get
together and the discussion is live, and in the same time zone - I'd be sad
to lose that focus if we split the mid cycle, but if it was regional I'd be
more likely to justify the cost of getting there.  A set of air fares and
accommodation for the Summit every 6 months is hard enough to fund,
doubling it isn't easy.

Maybe it would be good to re-state the purpose/goal of the mid cycle and
see which option matches that better?

On 17 November 2015 at 06:37, Matt Fischer  wrote:

> I think that sticking with a singular official one is the plan. It's
> difficult enough for the foundation to line up sponsors/hosts etc for a
> single meet-up. I also think that there are some US/Asia folks that will
> attend a midcycle in Europe and by also hosting a competing one locally you
> may reduce the attendance at the main one which defeats the purpose. Those
> midcycles work best when we have lots of different voices providing input.
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Jonathan Proulx 
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55:33PM +, Kruithof, Piet wrote:
>> :Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.
>> :
>> :How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?
>>
>> My basic question was One or Many.
>>
>> If Many then that's a further question, but probably 3 (north america,
>> asia, europe)  or possibly 4 (+ south america)
>>
>> :
>> :Piet
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> :Piet Kruithof
>> :Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
>> :PTL, OpenStack UX project
>> :
>> :"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and
>> wrong.”
>> :
>> :H L Menken
>> :
>> :
>> :From: Matt Jarvis  matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>>
>> :Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
>> :To: Jonathan Proulx >
>> :Cc: "openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>" <
>> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>>
>> :Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
>> :
>> :+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the
>> wider participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive thing,
>> and there are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be had from
>> European operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm sure the
>> same is also true for Asia.
>> :
>> :On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx  j...@csail.mit.edu>> wrote:
>> :Hi All,
>> :
>> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
>> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
>> :hope to raise this issue the...
>> :
>> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
>> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
>> :all mid cycles have been US based.
>> :
>> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
>> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
>> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
>> :
>> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
>> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
>> :
>> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
>> :this needs real time discussion)
>> :
>> :-Jon
>> :
>> :
>> :--
>> :
>> :1.
>> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>> :
>> :___
>> :OpenStack-operators mailing list
>> :OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org> OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org>
>> :http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> :--
>> :Matt Jarvis
>> :Head of Cloud Computing
>> :DataCentred
>> :Office: (+44)0161 8703985
>> :Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
>> :Email: matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk> matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>
>> :Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
>> :
>> :DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763
>>
>> --
>>
>> ___
>> OpenStack-operators mailing list
>> OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>>
>
>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Jonathan Proulx]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55:33PM +, Kruithof, Piet wrote:
:Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.
:
:How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?

My basic question was One or Many.

If Many then that's a further question, but probably 3 (north america,
asia, europe)  or possibly 4 (+ south america)

:
:Piet
:
:
:
:
:Piet Kruithof
:Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
:PTL, OpenStack UX project
:
:"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and 
wrong.”
:
:H L Menken
:
:
:From: Matt Jarvis 
>
:Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
:To: Jonathan Proulx >
:Cc: 
"openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org"
 
>
:Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
:
:+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the wider 
participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive thing, and there 
are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be had from European 
operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm sure the same is also 
true for Asia.
:
:On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx 
> wrote:
:Hi All,
:
:1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
:#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
:hope to raise this issue the...
:
:It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
:Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
:all mid cycles have been US based.
:
:Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
:than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
:being 'opposite' the summit location.
:
:This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
:of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
:
:Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
:this needs real time discussion)
:
:-Jon
:
:
:--
:
:1. 
http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
:
:___
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:OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org
:http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
:
:
:
:--
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:Head of Cloud Computing
:DataCentred
:Office: (+44)0161 8703985
:Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
:Email: matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk
:Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
:
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Matt Fischer]

I think that sticking with a singular official one is the plan. It's
difficult enough for the foundation to line up sponsors/hosts etc for a
single meet-up. I also think that there are some US/Asia folks that will
attend a midcycle in Europe and by also hosting a competing one locally you
may reduce the attendance at the main one which defeats the purpose. Those
midcycles work best when we have lots of different voices providing input.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Jonathan Proulx  wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55:33PM +, Kruithof, Piet wrote:
> :Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.
> :
> :How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?
>
> My basic question was One or Many.
>
> If Many then that's a further question, but probably 3 (north america,
> asia, europe)  or possibly 4 (+ south america)
>
> :
> :Piet
> :
> :
> :
> :
> :Piet Kruithof
> :Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
> :PTL, OpenStack UX project
> :
> :"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and
> wrong.”
> :
> :H L Menken
> :
> :
> :From: Matt Jarvis >
> :Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
> :To: Jonathan Proulx >
> :Cc: "openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>" <
> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>>
> :Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
> :
> :+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the
> wider participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive thing,
> and there are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be had from
> European operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm sure the
> same is also true for Asia.
> :
> :On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx > wrote:
> :Hi All,
> :
> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
> :hope to raise this issue the...
> :
> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
> :all mid cycles have been US based.
> :
> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
> :
> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
> :
> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
> :this needs real time discussion)
> :
> :-Jon
> :
> :
> :--
> :
> :1.
> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
> :
> :___
> :OpenStack-operators mailing list
> :OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org>
> :http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
> :
> :
> :
> :--
> :Matt Jarvis
> :Head of Cloud Computing
> :DataCentred
> :Office: (+44)0161 8703985
> :Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
> :Email: matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk >
> :Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
> :
> :DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763
>
> --
>
> ___
> OpenStack-operators mailing list
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> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Joe Topjian]

+1 Option 1

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Jonathan Proulx  wrote:

>
> Let me restate the question a bit as I think I'm hearing two different
> responses that may be getting conflated.
>
> Option 1:  There's a single Ops Midcycle that shifts around and we
> look at ways to increase remote participation. (obviously this doesn't
> preclude other meetups)
>
> Option 2: There are multiple Ops Meetups around midcycle (presumably
> starting with North America, Asia, and Europe) and we look at ways of
> coordinationg those re reduce duplication of effort any synthesis of
> results.
>
> I was advocating option 1 mostly because I think synthesis of option 2
> is harder than stepping up preparation of etherpads before sessions
> and review of them afterward is which is motly the level of remote
> participation I'd envision in the first case (possibly also running
> some email threads on any reccommendations that come out and seem
> controvertial for any reason)
>
> So far though seems the tide is runiing toward option 2, multiple
> meet-ups. Though wee're still at a very small sample size.
>
> -Jon
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50:52AM -0500, Jonathan Proulx wrote:
> :Hi All,
> :
> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
> :hope to raise this issue the...
> :
> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
> :all mid cycles have been US based.
> :
> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
> :
> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
> :
> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
> :this needs real time discussion)
> :
> :-Jon
> :
> :
> :--
> :
> :1.
> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>
> --
>
> ___
> OpenStack-operators mailing list
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> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Donald Talton]

I’ll +1 option 1 too, if we can get remote participation that would suffice.

From: Joe Topjian [mailto:j...@topjian.net]
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 12:57 PM
To: Jonathan Proulx
Cc: openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org
Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

+1 Option 1

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Jonathan Proulx 
> wrote:

Let me restate the question a bit as I think I'm hearing two different
responses that may be getting conflated.

Option 1:  There's a single Ops Midcycle that shifts around and we
look at ways to increase remote participation. (obviously this doesn't
preclude other meetups)

Option 2: There are multiple Ops Meetups around midcycle (presumably
starting with North America, Asia, and Europe) and we look at ways of
coordinationg those re reduce duplication of effort any synthesis of
results.

I was advocating option 1 mostly because I think synthesis of option 2
is harder than stepping up preparation of etherpads before sessions
and review of them afterward is which is motly the level of remote
participation I'd envision in the first case (possibly also running
some email threads on any reccommendations that come out and seem
controvertial for any reason)

So far though seems the tide is runiing toward option 2, multiple
meet-ups. Though wee're still at a very small sample size.

-Jon


On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50:52AM -0500, Jonathan Proulx wrote:
:Hi All,
:
:1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
:#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
:hope to raise this issue the...
:
:It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
:Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
:all mid cycles have been US based.
:
:Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
:than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
:being 'opposite' the summit location.
:
:This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
:of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
:
:Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
:this needs real time discussion)
:
:-Jon
:
:
:--
:
:1. 
http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2

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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Jesse Keating]

I second Matt's opinion here. We would prefer a singular meeting,
regardless of location.


- jlk

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Matt Fischer  wrote:

> I think that sticking with a singular official one is the plan. It's
> difficult enough for the foundation to line up sponsors/hosts etc for a
> single meet-up. I also think that there are some US/Asia folks that will
> attend a midcycle in Europe and by also hosting a competing one locally you
> may reduce the attendance at the main one which defeats the purpose. Those
> midcycles work best when we have lots of different voices providing input.
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Jonathan Proulx 
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 04:55:33PM +, Kruithof, Piet wrote:
>> :Sorry, late to the conversation and maybe missing a bit of context.
>> :
>> :How may regional meetings are we thinking?  2-3? Or more?
>>
>> My basic question was One or Many.
>>
>> If Many then that's a further question, but probably 3 (north america,
>> asia, europe)  or possibly 4 (+ south america)
>>
>> :
>> :Piet
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> :Piet Kruithof
>> :Sr UX Architect, HP Helion Cloud
>> :PTL, OpenStack UX project
>> :
>> :"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and
>> wrong.”
>> :
>> :H L Menken
>> :
>> :
>> :From: Matt Jarvis  matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>>
>> :Date: Monday, November 16, 2015 at 9:23 AM
>> :To: Jonathan Proulx >
>> :Cc: "openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>" <
>> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org> openstack-operators@lists.openstack.org>>
>> :Subject: Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.
>> :
>> :+1 from me, although I am admittedly biased ;) Personally I think the
>> wider participation in the ops feedback loop can only be a positive thing,
>> and there are definitely different perspectives and concerns to be had from
>> European operators given the different commercial landscape. I'm sure the
>> same is also true for Asia.
>> :
>> :On 16 November 2015 at 15:50, Jonathan Proulx  j...@csail.mit.edu>> wrote:
>> :Hi All,
>> :
>> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
>> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
>> :hope to raise this issue the...
>> :
>> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
>> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
>> :all mid cycles have been US based.
>> :
>> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
>> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
>> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
>> :
>> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
>> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
>> :
>> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
>> :this needs real time discussion)
>> :
>> :-Jon
>> :
>> :
>> :--
>> :
>> :1.
>> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>> :
>> :___
>> :OpenStack-operators mailing list
>> :OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org> OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org>
>> :http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>> :
>> :
>> :
>> :--
>> :Matt Jarvis
>> :Head of Cloud Computing
>> :DataCentred
>> :Office: (+44)0161 8703985
>> :Mobile: (+44)07983 725372
>> :Email: matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk> matt.jar...@datacentred.co.uk>
>> :Website: http://www.datacentred.co.uk
>> :
>> :DataCentred Limited registered in England and Wales no. 05611763
>>
>> --
>>
>> ___
>> OpenStack-operators mailing list
>> OpenStack-operators@lists.openstack.org
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>>
>
>
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Anne Gentle]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 11:01 AM, Jonathan Proulx  wrote:

>
> Let me restate the question a bit as I think I'm hearing two different
> responses that may be getting conflated.
>
> Option 1:  There's a single Ops Midcycle that shifts around and we
> look at ways to increase remote participation. (obviously this doesn't
> preclude other meetups)
>
> Option 2: There are multiple Ops Meetups around midcycle (presumably
> starting with North America, Asia, and Europe) and we look at ways of
> coordinationg those re reduce duplication of effort any synthesis of
> results.
>
>

Hey all, I wanted to point to a bit of data from last year when I
interviewed a bunch of teams about their midcycles.

http://www.openstack.org/blog/2014/12/studying-midcycle-sprints-and-meetings/

- Midcycles are more valuable in the early days of forming teams.
- Best quality meetings tend to be sprint-oriented with real work getting
done and a specific outcome in mind.
- Often there’s a choice implied in choosing what an individual travels to;
adding a midcycle sprint means a choice has to be made.
- Virtual aspects of a midcycle require additional support such as open
source tooling, or if using non-open source tooling, you must get agreement
from participants.

Wanted to share since I think you'll find it relevant.
Anne


> I was advocating option 1 mostly because I think synthesis of option 2
> is harder than stepping up preparation of etherpads before sessions
> and review of them afterward is which is motly the level of remote
> participation I'd envision in the first case (possibly also running
> some email threads on any reccommendations that come out and seem
> controvertial for any reason)
>
> So far though seems the tide is runiing toward option 2, multiple
> meet-ups. Though wee're still at a very small sample size.
>
> -Jon
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50:52AM -0500, Jonathan Proulx wrote:
> :Hi All,
> :
> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
> :hope to raise this issue the...
> :
> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
> :all mid cycles have been US based.
> :
> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
> :
> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
> :
> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
> :this needs real time discussion)
> :
> :-Jon
> :
> :
> :--
> :
> :1.
> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>
> --
>
> ___
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>



-- 
Anne Gentle
Rackspace
Principal Engineer
www.justwriteclick.com
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[Openstack-operators] [openstack-operators][osops][tools-generic] Coding Standards/Coding Linters for tools-generic

[JJ Asghar]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

NOTE: I get what I'm about to propose will open a HUGE can of worms, but
we need it, so I'll start the conversation.

We had some initial discussion and thoughts on coding standards when we
first started this project. It got shot down, but not beforeChristian
Berendt came up with review[1].

If you don't know, bashate[2] is a pep8 coding standard for bash. I
think it's a great starting point for our tools-generic repo.

Are there any objections or concerns with this? If there isn't any,
voiced in a timely fashion, I'll take the action item of getting the
review re-enabled.

To the can o'worms: I think we should probably set up linters for any
python, ruby, bash, etc scripts also. It's hard to cargo cult these from
other projects in the OpenStack ecosystem; which I understand can be
different per different project. This can be a religious debate, and I
want to acknowledge that people feel strongly about this; but we all
need to come together to get this project off the ground. I'd like to go
as _simple_ as possible, then we can add more opinionated styles, if
desired, as our project grows.

I propose people post different standards here[3] and when we have our
next meeting we vote to figure out what we should have. If you can't
attend the meeting please put +1s by what you'd like and we can take
that in for consideration.

Please if you have any concerns, questions, thoughts don't hesitate to
reach out.


[1]: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229029
[2]: https://github.com/openstack-dev/bashate
[3]: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osops-coding-standards


- -- 
Best Regards,
JJ Asghar
c: 512.619.0722 t: @jjasghar irc: j^2
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Re: [Openstack-operators] OPs Midcycle location discussion.

[Curtis]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Shamail  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> On Nov 16, 2015, at 7:01 PM, Jonathan Proulx  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Let me restate the question a bit as I think I'm hearing two different
>> responses that may be getting conflated.
>>
>> Option 1:  There's a single Ops Midcycle that shifts around and we
>> look at ways to increase remote participation. (obviously this doesn't
>> preclude other meetups)
> How about one "official" mid-cycle (following trend of most other 
> projects/groups) but regional ops groups can pick up the etherpads and dive 
> deeper into topics of interest at the regional level?
>
> Essentially a hub/spoke where each meetup adds content to the same etherpads, 
> etc. thus allowing topics to emerge once per cycle and be worked/discussed 
> iteratively.

I think I would prefer a hub and spoke style of some kind as well, not
sure what that exactly would look like though. Perhaps that just means
the first option that was laid out, which mentions not precluding
other regional operator meetups. I'm quite interested in the
Manchester meetup because I think operators there will be deploying
clouds more like the one I do. My two cents. :)

Thanks,
Curtis.

>>
>> Option 2: There are multiple Ops Meetups around midcycle (presumably
>> starting with North America, Asia, and Europe) and we look at ways of
>> coordinationg those re reduce duplication of effort any synthesis of
>> results.
>>
>> I was advocating option 1 mostly because I think synthesis of option 2
>> is harder than stepping up preparation of etherpads before sessions
>> and review of them afterward is which is motly the level of remote
>> participation I'd envision in the first case (possibly also running
>> some email threads on any reccommendations that come out and seem
>> controvertial for any reason)
>>
>> So far though seems the tide is runiing toward option 2, multiple
>> meet-ups. Though wee're still at a very small sample size.
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:50:52AM -0500, Jonathan Proulx wrote:
>> :Hi All,
>> :
>> :1st User Committee IRC meeting will be today at 19:00UTC on
>> :#openstack-meeting, we haven't exactly settled on an agenda yet but I
>> :hope to raise this issue the...
>> :
>> :It has been suggested that we make the February 15-16 European Ops
>> :Meetup in Manchester UK [1] the 'official' OPs Midcycle.  Previously
>> :all mid cycles have been US based.
>> :
>> :Personally I like the idea of broadening or geographic reach rather
>> :than staying concentrated in North America. I particularly like it
>> :being 'opposite' the summit location.
>> :
>> :This would likely trade off some depth of participation as fewer
>> :of the same people would be able to travel to all midcycles in person.
>> :
>> :Discuss...(also come by  #openstack-meeting at 19:00 UTC if you think
>> :this needs real time discussion)
>> :
>> :-Jon
>> :
>> :
>> :--
>> :
>> :1. 
>> http://www.eventbrite.com/e/european-openstack-operators-meetup-tickets-19405855436?aff=es2
>>
>> --
>>
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>
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-- 
Blog: serverascode.com

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Re: [Openstack-operators] [openstack-operators][osops][tools-generic] Coding Standards/Coding Linters for tools-generic

[Clayton O'Neill]

I think it’s a good idea.  I think scripts and such that don’t pass the
listing tools can go into the contrib repos and if they get cleaned up then
they can move over to the regular ones.

I don’t actually like some of the PEP8 and bashate rules, but I’d rather
have a consistent style than have them in everyone’s personal style.  I
find less opinionated tools like rubocop to be less useful, since you end
up bogged down in arguing about which style options to choose.

On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 7:03 PM, JJ Asghar  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
>
> NOTE: I get what I'm about to propose will open a HUGE can of worms, but
> we need it, so I'll start the conversation.
>
> We had some initial discussion and thoughts on coding standards when we
> first started this project. It got shot down, but not beforeChristian
> Berendt came up with review[1].
>
> If you don't know, bashate[2] is a pep8 coding standard for bash. I
> think it's a great starting point for our tools-generic repo.
>
> Are there any objections or concerns with this? If there isn't any,
> voiced in a timely fashion, I'll take the action item of getting the
> review re-enabled.
>
> To the can o'worms: I think we should probably set up linters for any
> python, ruby, bash, etc scripts also. It's hard to cargo cult these from
> other projects in the OpenStack ecosystem; which I understand can be
> different per different project. This can be a religious debate, and I
> want to acknowledge that people feel strongly about this; but we all
> need to come together to get this project off the ground. I'd like to go
> as _simple_ as possible, then we can add more opinionated styles, if
> desired, as our project grows.
>
> I propose people post different standards here[3] and when we have our
> next meeting we vote to figure out what we should have. If you can't
> attend the meeting please put +1s by what you'd like and we can take
> that in for consideration.
>
> Please if you have any concerns, questions, thoughts don't hesitate to
> reach out.
>
>
> [1]: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/229029
> [2]: https://github.com/openstack-dev/bashate
> [3]: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/osops-coding-standards
>
>
> - --
> Best Regards,
> JJ Asghar
> c: 512.619.0722 t: @jjasghar irc: j^2
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[Openstack-operators] how to manage multiple openstack regions(Juno)

[XueSong Ma]

We have large scale physical servers to manage depend on our services, and 
built multiple openstack env.(regions), does any one how to manage these 
individual openstacks in one operation portal?We developed our own UI for 
it(not horizon).

Thanks a lot!
Jeff
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