Hi,
Just want to announce my post in packaging@ list in more appropriate place:
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-packaging/2013-12/msg00099.html
I had to cross-post...
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do you know
> if in the image openSUSE it's already all supported?
Don't know yet, but would be nice if you could check.
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07.01.2014 18:21, Guillaume Gardet пишет:
Hi Marcus,
13.1 ARM JeOS images do not boot anymore, because boot.scr and u-boot.bin are
now in root folder and no more in boot/ folder.
Yep, I noted this too. I realized that something have to make symbolic
link ./boot -> . before population boot pa
15.01.2014 02:59, Oscar C пишет:
Hi,
I'm trying to build the rtl8188eu kernel module for my wifi dongle
locally in my cubieboard2. The build fails with the following error:
Are you trying to build module as rpm package? (Then, show me a spec)
Otherwise, do you have kernel-devel installed?
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18.01.2014 03:08, Oscar C пишет:
Yes, kernel-sun7i-devel is installed. The build repo is here:
home:ocurero:branches:home:Akoellh:Kernelmodules
I use make -C %{kernel_source $flavor}:
make -C %{kernel_source $flavor} modules M=$PWD/obj/$flavor
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19.01.2014 20:08, Oscar C пишет:
Looking at this closer, the problem is that the release tag on the .spec
file is changed automatically on every build by OBS. If kernel-sun7i and
kernel-sources have different release number, it's impossible to build a
module for the kernel.
But kernel-$flavor i
21.01.2014 19:05, Oscar C пишет:
El 2014-01-19 17:14, Matwey V. Kornilov escribió:
19.01.2014 20:08, Oscar C пишет:
Looking at this closer, the problem is that the release tag on the .spec
file is changed automatically on every build by OBS. If kernel-sun7i and
kernel-sources have different
On 28.02.2014 14:40, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
I think this image is for beaglebone black. Not sure if it suitable for
beaglebone.
They are supposed to be suitable both for beaglebone and beaglebone
black. They are utilizing the same TI platform:
http://beagleboard.org/products/beaglebone
htt
On 28.02.2014 17:47, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
Which patches are needed? u-boot, kernel, others?
Did you create submit requests?
Patches to the kernel-source,
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kernel/2014-01/msg00031.html
maybe I did something wrong...
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28.02.2014 18:08, Matwey V. Kornilov пишет:
On 28.02.2014 17:47, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
Which patches are needed? u-boot, kernel, others?
Did you create submit requests?
Patches to the kernel-source,
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kernel/2014-01/msg00031.html
maybe I did something
01.03.2014 12:07, lists пишет:
I can't seem to get it to work. I assume you have to SSH into it.
Nothing on the HDMI display. It doesn't show up in a nmap.
As any other JeOSes from Ports the image has interactive
yast2-firstboot, you have to have serial console connection at the first
boot,
01.03.2014 14:48, lists пишет:
The Beaglebone Black doesn't have a real serial port. It requires a
special usb cable/chip. I'm trying not to be negative here, but I think
this won't be accepted well by the beaglebone users.
Then you should use XFCE-beaglebone image (seeing the console on your
28.02.2014 17:47, Guillaume Gardet пишет:
Did you create submit requests?
Would you please handle SR 224264 to openSUSE:13.1:Ports? Thank you.
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09.03.2014 10:07, lists пишет:
U-Boot SPL 2013.04-dirty (Jul 10 2013 - 14:02:53)
You are booting from wrong media
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Hi,
kiwi JeOS makes u-boot boot scripts using uboot-image-setup. And there
is no way to overwrite environment variables which is set by this boot
script at booting.
I would like to be able to modify at least kernel command line using
interactive u-boot console.
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st way should be to modify your boot.scr file by modifing boot.script
> file and then generate your new boot.scr from it with mkimage:
> mkimage -A arm -T script -C none -n "Boot script" -d boot.script boot.scr
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On 11.03.2014 07:19, lists wrote:
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 13:32:04 +0400
"Matwey V. Kornilov" wrote:
09.03.2014 10:07, lists пишет:
U-Boot SPL 2013.04-dirty (Jul 10 2013 - 14:02:53)
You are booting from wrong media
Can you elaborate? For instance, are you saying I downloaded
Hi,
It would be great if dtb-source version were in sync with the kernel
one. What do you think, is it worth to reimplement dtb-source, using
buildrequires: kernel-source instead of using linux tarball?
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On 17.03.2014 17:09, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
DTS/DTB files will be removed from kernel sources (no roadmap defined yet).
Didn't know. Not it is clear.
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On 08.04.2014 16:46, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
Update from latest Base:System is a solution but we will lost Beaglebone Black
fixes.
Won't lost, dtb-source at Base:System should be fine.
Would you please, also, update kernel for 13.1:Ports? Because my
beaglebone patches have been accepted.
-
On 08.04.2014 17:20, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
Won't lost, dtb-source at Base:System should be fine.
Ah, no... But, I will manage that, that is ok. Just another kernel patch
will be required.
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On 11.04.2014 12:52, Marcus Schäfer wrote:
Hi,
with Factory ARM images, kiwi is not able to find boot device on firstboot and
we get:
[1397088002.636285] Including oem partition info file
[1397088002.701788] Searc
Please, follow SR 229859
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und for that particular
> platform without necessarily relying on us.
Would be great, given that you remove JeOS/XFCE-beaglebone from
13.1:Ports, because too many people tries to use it.
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Hi,
I've just checked JeOS. Now, 13.1 works as described in
https://en.opensuse.org/HCL:BeagleBone_Black
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Hi,
What do you think about supporting barebox as arm-bootloader in parallel
with u-boot? Is it going to be successor of u-boot?
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Hi,
Why kernel/initrd tarball is not published for Factory? Is there a way
to boot the image in qemu from .raw?
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On 30.05.2014 14:55, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
Hi,
Why kernel/initrd tarball is not published for Factory? Is there a way
to boot the image in qemu from .raw?
Ahh, this is useless. One need to use kernel/initrd from the image,
because the initrd is to be remade after first boot. So, the
On 01.06.2014 16:12, Josua Mayer wrote:
While the Cubox-i should boot a vanilla 3.14 kernel, the current
kernel-default never gets to detecting the sdcard. I haven't tried to
debug this yet.
Frankly speaking, this would be the right solution. When I faced
bnc#872715 I had similar issue at Beag
03.06.2014 11:30, Matwey V. Kornilov пишет:
> On 01.06.2014 16:12, Josua Mayer wrote:
>> While the Cubox-i should boot a vanilla 3.14 kernel, the current
>> kernel-default never gets to detecting the sdcard. I haven't tried to
>> debug this yet.
>
> Frankly s
On 19.05.2014 14:02, Alexander Graf wrote:
note: expected 'uint32_t *' but argument is of type 'dma_addr_t *'
I've fixed that one, but can not figure out what is wrong now:
https://build.opensuse.org/package/live_build_log/home:matwey:pcm051:13.2/kernel-default/standard/armv7l
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ote:
>> Hi Nishanth,
>>
>> On Thursday 05 June 2014 08:37:27 Nishanth Menon wrote:
>>> On 06/05/2014 08:29 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
>>>> Alexander Graf wrote:
>>>>> On 04.06.14 09:28, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
>>>>>> On 19.05.2014 14:
Reference: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2014-06/msg4.html
Signed-off-by: Matwey V. Kornilov
---
config/armv7hl/default | 2 +-
1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
diff --git a/config/armv7hl/default b/config/armv7hl/default
index 62d484b..be36a40 100644
--- a/config
12.06.2014 12:01, Guillaume Gardet пишет:
> - But latest armv7l kernels from Kernel:HEAD are broken:
> https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor/Kernel:HEAD but fixes should be on
> the way.
Just a couple of links:
http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kernel/2014-06/msg00051.html
http://lists.op
26.06.2014 18:10, Christopher Myers пишет:
> Hi everyone!
>
> I'm new to the list, and this is my first post, so please forgive my
> ignorance if this has been covered before. I'd searched the archives and
> didn't see anything about it, so thought I'd pose the question here.
>
> I recently pic
08.07.2014 20:43, Joshua Krämer пишет:
> Dear list,
>
> I have an Odroid XU from Hardkernel with an eMMC memory module. The
> Linux images provided by Hardkernel and on their forums work
> (Debian, Ubuntu). Now I'd like to make openSUSE work on it.
>
It would be great If you upstreamed kernel
mass-deployment or store your ready-to-use
configuration.
2014-07-13 0:29 GMT+04:00 Paul Wallingford :
> On 7/11/2014 8:52 AM, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
>>
>> 2014-07-11 19:49 GMT+04:00 Paul Wallingford :
>>
>>> Since these images do not work,
>>
>>
>>
.
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01.08.2014 18:00, Andreas Färber пишет:
> Hi,
>
> Handling a recent SR, I noticed that our Base:System u-boot is still at
> v2014.04.
I think it is worth to start with v2014.10-rc1
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19.08.2014 19:56, Matwey V. Kornilov пишет:
> 01.08.2014 18:00, Andreas Färber пишет:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Handling a recent SR, I noticed that our Base:System u-boot is still at
>> v2014.04.
>
> I think it is worth to start with v2014.10-rc1
>
I am trying to do
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and config files matching the board.
https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory/openocd
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ng a rolling (stable) release,
> so we should have another project for our tests (devel:ARM:Factory for
> example, but which build JeOS images).
The same issue is with kernel. We need JeOS images with kernel -rc for testing.
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On 26.06.2014 21:44, Andreas Färber wrote:
Hi Sean et al.,
Yesterday I finally received my Parallella board and last night managed
to get Factory working on it. I roughly summarized my steps here:
http://en.opensuse.org/HCL:Parallella
- U-Boot is already on flash
- FAT partition with uImage, d
On 21.08.2014 16:49, Andreas Färber wrote:
Hm, take a look at https://build.opensuse.org/monitor - we're really low
on armv7l build power. Last night we had six build hosts, today ten with
22 worker VMs. People branching kernel package add to that problem.
(I just asked Bamvor to drop a Kernel:st
On 21.08.2014 16:27, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
So, we could use devel:ARM:Factory to test u-boot and kernel (from
kernel:HEAD?) with JeOS images.
Would be great, given that kernel from Kernel:HEAD is already built.
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25.08.2014 14:05, Andreas Färber пишет:
> We need a FAT partition
Why are all of them (I mean vendor supplied U-boot) so in love with FAT?
There is support of ext2 in U-boot, and they boot nothing but Linux.
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Hi,
What do you think about adding couple of test cases for ARM to our
openQA? I remember two cases when our JeOSes were broken independently
of hardware. First one, when u-boot was looking for boot.scr in wrong
place, second one, when the kernel 3.14 was broken due to bug in depmod.
So, I t
08.09.2014 17:26, Guillaume Gardet пишет:
> Hi,
>
> Fatcory:ARM repo has new JeOS (E17 and XFCE) images but there are some
> ghost files remaining.
>
>
> Pandaboard and Beagleboard boots u-boot but then hangs after "Starting
> kernel ...". Beagle should use a newer u-boot managing FDT for Beagle
08.09.2014 20:34, Guillaume Gardet пишет:
> I managed to boot beagleboard using differents load adress for kernel,
What could be the problem with the old addresses?
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08.09.2014 22:29, Guillaume Gardet пишет:
> The thing is it does boot with new addr for beagleboard xM. I also
> updated BB black and panda with those addr.
> You should try the new image for beaglebone black once SR will be
> accepted and images rebuilt.
Yes, thank you. I've fixed current by hand
09.09.2014 14:07, christophe пишет:
> Will opensuse 13.2 be easy to install and run on such arm tablets ?
It depends on. ARM tables are different.
> To install, what is the procedure ? Copy a dowloaded iso on an usb key
> and boot and install like on classic pc ?
Copy prepared disk image on
Hi,
BeagleBone Black.
201.1 boots, networking works, but wicked is completely wicked.
There is an issue with USB (see my PATCH in opensuse-kernel, our
configuration is invalid). Workaround is to add
options musb_hdrc use_dma=0
to /etc/modprobe.d/99-local.conf
However, there is another problem
2014-09-08 14:46 GMT+04:00 Alexander Graf :
> the patch below on top of ac0bfdb9c.
Could you please send the patch to linaro? The patch works just
perfect for beagleboard.
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at with qemu -monitor stdio ...
> and then issue a screendump /tmp/foo.ppm
> IIRC the current openQA v3 version can also use VNC to talk to qemu.
Why openQA don't like serial console? It is simpler to parse and use.
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xmpp://
Hi all,
I've just found this:
https://news.opensuse.org/2014/03/19/development-for-13-2-kicks-off/
"""The btrfs filesystem is default (and comes with btrfsprogs 3.12), as
is the wicked network management tool (replacing ifup) and the dracut
initrd replacement"""
But our JeOS images still not us
Hi,
Which board use this module? BeagleBoard?
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On 18.09.2014 11:07, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
Hi,
Le 17/09/2014 18:34, Matwey V. Kornilov a écrit :
Hi,
Which board use this module? BeagleBoard?
I would say OMAP based boards such as: Beagleboard xM, Pandaboard, and
maybe also Beaglebone Black.
Definitely not the last one :) It makes me
18.09.2014 12:21, Guillaume Gardet пишет:
> Indded, I just checked BB black schematic and there is no TUSB6010 chip.
Guillaume, do you have an instance of BeagleBoard equipped with TUSB6010?
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On 19.09.2014 11:31, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
Le 18/09/2014 22:20, Matwey V. Kornilov a écrit :
18.09.2014 12:21, Guillaume Gardet пишет:
Indded, I just checked BB black schematic and there is no TUSB6010 chip.
Guillaume, do you have an instance of BeagleBoard equipped with TUSB6010
Hi,
I've found that we have Mesa package in initial initrd in our JeOSes. Do
we really need it? I estimated it takes about 20MB of 130MB total size
of uncompressed initrd.
Typical ARM boards don't have lots of RAM like big x86 servers.
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2014-09-21 17:25 GMT+04:00 Alexander Graf :
> Can you find out why it ends up
> in the initrd?
I am not sure, that I know optimal way to do it.
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fbiterm pulls whole the X server (libXfont.so.1) and I think Mesa is
requirement by some of X packages.
2014-09-21 17:35 GMT+04:00 Alexander Graf :
>
>
> On 21.09.14 15:30, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
>> 2014-09-21 17:25 GMT+04:00 Alexander Graf :
>>> Can you find out w
21.09.2014 17:35, Alexander Graf пишет:
>
>
> On 21.09.14 15:30, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
>> 2014-09-21 17:25 GMT+04:00 Alexander Graf :
>>> Can you find out why it ends up
>>> in the initrd?
>>
>> I am not sure, that I know optimal way to do it.
2014-09-21 17:35 GMT+04:00 Alexander Graf :
>
>
> On 21.09.14 15:30, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
>> 2014-09-21 17:25 GMT+04:00 Alexander Graf :
>>> Can you find out why it ends up
>>> in the initrd?
>>
>> I am not sure, that I know optimal way to do it.
so.3 (0xb6f7a000)
So, I think it is auto-dependence.
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Hi,
I think we need ARM support for http://software.opensuse.org
At least for couple best-supported boards.
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23.09.2014 12:02, Guillaume Gardet пишет:
> I think we should be able to provide a single image for ARMv8 as it is
> done for x86 (using EFI?).
>
> For armv7, we have one image per board. So, maybe just add a link to
> Portal:ARM wiki page?
I want to attract and involve new ARM openSUSE users. It
"And now for something completely different."
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"And now for something completely different."
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ated initrd.
2014-10-11 13:05 GMT+04:00 Stephan Kulow :
> Am 11.10.2014 um 09:36 schrieb Matwey V. Kornilov:
>> Hi Stephan,
>>
>> Could you please point out why there is a
>>
>> Requires: plymouth-plugin-label
>>
>> in Base:System/branding-o
2014-10-11 14:36 GMT+04:00 Raymond Wooninck :
> On Saturday 11 October 2014 14:13:24 Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
>> Hi Raymond,
>>
>> We are discussing this sr:
>> https://build.opensuse.org/package/rdiff/Base:System/branding-openSUSE?linkr
>> ev=base&rev=116
2014-10-11 15:10 GMT+04:00 Raymond Wooninck :
> On Saturday 11 October 2014 15:04:53 Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
>> But, could you please check whether label is still used? I suppose it
>> is inside the following file:
>> https://github.com/openSUSE/branding/blob/13.2/boot/pl
12.10.2014 13:29, lists пишет:
> I can confirm there is no graphics on the HDMI port as the original
> poster indicated.
>
> The OS seems to work OK on the serial port. Maybe a bit sluggish as
> compared to ubuntu on the built in flash, but that is just an
> impression, i.e. nothing scientific.
I
On 12.10.2014 21:43, lists wrote:
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 16:33:28 +0400
"Matwey V. Kornilov" wrote:
12.10.2014 13:29, lists пишет:
I can confirm there is no graphics on the HDMI port as the original
poster indicated.
The OS seems to work OK on the serial port. Maybe a bit sluggish a
On 13.10.2014 10:27, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
What is broken? HDMI or boot?
Boot. See for reference: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86071
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On 12.10.2014 21:35, Andreas Färber wrote:
Am 12.10.2014 um 14:33 schrieb Matwey V. Kornilov:
12.10.2014 13:29, lists пишет:
I can confirm there is no graphics on the HDMI port as the original
poster indicated.
The OS seems to work OK on the serial port. Maybe a bit sluggish as
compared to
On 12.10.2014 21:35, Andreas Färber wrote:
Am 12.10.2014 um 14:33 schrieb Matwey V. Kornilov:
12.10.2014 13:29, lists пишет:
I can confirm there is no graphics on the HDMI port as the original
poster indicated.
The OS seems to work OK on the serial port. Maybe a bit sluggish as
compared to
On 13.10.2014 11:00, Alexjan Carraturo wrote:
I tested booth, and the 13.1 has only HDMI problem
I bet you did not check usb :) Yes, it is also doesn't work now (see my
patches in opensuse-kernel maillist)
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Hi,
1) openSUSE:13.2:Ports currently doesn't have JeOSes. But I suppose it
has to have. Could somebody care about it?
2) I suppose we still don't have JeOSes with kernel from Kernel:HEAD,
and this limits our testing opportunities.
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13.10.2014 11:23, Matwey V. Kornilov пишет:
> On 13.10.2014 10:27, Guillaume Gardet wrote:
>> What is broken? HDMI or boot?
>
> Boot. See for reference: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=86071
>
Ok, The patch is in the opensuse-kernel maillist
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Hi,
Could someone look after JeOSes in openSUSE:13.1:Ports? They are failed
with the following output:
[ 90s] Problem: nothing provides /usr/bin/python needed by
wpa_supplicant-2.0-3.1.1.armv7hl
[ 90s] Problem: yast2-firstboot-3.0.1-2.1.4.noarch requires yast2 >=
2.16.23, but this requirement
Hi
openSUSE-13.1-ARM-JeOS-beaglebone.armv7l-1.12.1-Build38.9.raw
second-boots fine, just checked. Could you show full log of the first boot?
14.10.2014 05:17, lists пишет:
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 01:19:16 -0700
> lists wrote:
>
>> The title says it all. No HDMI on this specific build.
>> openS
e image, use the ncurses installer, and save
> whatever is dumped via the serial port while it boots. Then do I use the
> reboot command? Or do I hit the reset button. Assuming it boots, I then save
> the serial port dump.
>
> Sorry for the top post, but I'm on a smartphone.
&g
27.10.2014 15:36, Andrew Wafaa пишет:
> Ladies and germs,
>
> The release of 13.2 is imminent and it has come to be that in the
> current draft of the release announcement there is no mention of ARM
> :-(
>
> Is there any chance we could rustle up a paragraph or two of the key
> ARM related featu
Hi,
Why do we need the following?
The package has easily unneeded things: unit-test, distutils and pydoc
for instance. I think it could be striped somehow, but I can not find
what stuff requires python in initrd.
Moreover, python-base is marked as type="delete" in
kiwi/system/boot/armv7l/oembo
2014-11-09 17:46 GMT+03:00 Andreas Färber :
> Hi,
>
> Am 09.11.2014 um 10:45 schrieb Alexander Graf:
>> Am 09.11.2014 um 09:11 schrieb Matwey V. Kornilov
>> :
>>> Why do we need the following?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The package has easil
On 17.11.2014 11:57, lists wrote:
On Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:39:11 -0800
lists wrote:
I installed
openSUSE-13.2-ARM-JeOS-beaglebone.armv7l-1.12.1-Build26.2.raw.xz
on a Beagle Bone Black. It works except there is no HDMI output.
The ncurses yast part of the installation was removed. (Probably for
22.11.2014 21:28, Zack Piper пишет:
> Hi,
>
> I'm currently debugging my BeagleBone Black, when booting, it gets
> stuck at 3 LEDs.
>
> Is there anyway to debug it without a miniHDMI cable or serial
> cable?
>
> Thanks.
>
I don't think so, you need serial cable.
By the way, did you remember
at all?
No
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2014-11-23 0:00 GMT+03:00 Zack Piper :
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 12:50:44AM +0400, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
>> 2014-11-22 23:44 GMT+03:00 Zack Piper :
>> > The BeagleBone Black JeOS image, I have not been using the boot switch
>> > button, I have tried it, no LEDs l
It is CONFIG_USB_G_SERIAL I've just sent the patch to opensuse-kernel
2014-11-23 0:27 GMT+03:00 Andreas Färber :
> Am 22.11.2014 um 22:09 schrieb Matwey V. Kornilov:
>> 2014-11-23 0:00 GMT+03:00 Zack Piper :
>>> Is there a guide on enabling tty-over-USB?
>>
>>
23.11.2014 00:34, Zack Piper пишет:
> Does the first boot have any LEDs, or do they come on after some
> minutes?
For me, U1 and U2 blink when it booted, but not at boot process itself.
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23.11.2014 01:16, Zack Piper пишет:
> Do I wait for the patches to be applied, then grab a factory build?
> Or can I get a prebuilt version?
>
> If there isn't, I'll try and compile the kernel myself.
>
It will take a time to apply the patch. If you want you always can
play with the kernel.
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25.11.2014 22:00, Sebastian Kratz пишет:
> On 11/25/2014 07:48 PM, Zack Piper wrote:
>> I am currently experiencing some problems with USB on the
>> BeagleBone.
>
>> Whenever a USB secice is plugged in, this happens:
>
>> [ 4580.135459] usb 2-1: new high-speed USB device number 9 using
>> musb-
Hi,
Does anyone have experience with openSUSE on Banana Pi.
I think to buy this one as home router:
http://aliexpress.com/store/product/Freeshipment-Newest-arrive-Banana-PI-BPI-R1-Opensource-Router-Original-Banana-pi-fast-delivery-time/302756_32228220781.html
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g/resources/9-101/opensuse_for_bananapi.html ). It
> works great but I'ld like to get an upgrade to opensuse 13.2 and also a
> later kernel!
> Ingo
>
>
>
> On 28. November 2014 10:57:26 MEZ, "Matwey V. Kornilov"
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
I've just checked that
openSUSE-13.2-ARM-JeOS-beaglebone.armv7l-1.12.1-Build30.1.raw has
working usb.
Many thanks to Takashi Iwai for fixing that.
25.11.2014 21:48, Zack Piper пишет:
> I am currently experiencing some problems with USB on the
> BeagleBone.
>
> Whenever a USB secice is plugged i
Hi,
I am trying to boot the image from here:
https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:matwey:JeOS-next/JeOS-beaglebone
And see the following:
U-Boot SPL 2015.01-rc1 (Nov 20 2014 - 18:11:04)
### ERROR ### Please RESET the board ###
Resetting the board doesn't help. Any ideas?
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