Re: [OPSAWG] Comments to draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-04

[chenhu...@chinatelecom.cn]

Hi Haoyu,

Thank you very much for replying. The enhancements are good for my team to 
udnerstand the ifit.
1.It will clear to add the new figure to the draft, then we would get the key 
point together.
2.Passport and postcard mode comparement is useful for us to list device 
requirements, and choose suitable mode for differant service.
3.It is helpful for us to depoly ifit, then we will do some bandwidth 
reservation for ifit.

Best regards,
Huanan Chen

Data Communication Research Department
Guangdong Research Institute of China Telecom Co.,Ltd.
Tel：020-3863-9346
PH：133-1609-7163
QQ：17335837
Mail：chenhu...@chinatelecom.cn
   13316097...@chinatelecom.cn 
 
From: Haoyu Song
Date: 2019-09-19 02:16
To: chenhu...@chinatelecom.cn; opsawg
CC: draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework
Subject: RE: [OPSAWG] Comments to draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-04
Hi Huanan,
 
I’ve made proposed changes to address each of your comments (see below). Please 
take a look and let me know what you think.
 
Thanks!
 
Haoyu
 
From: Haoyu Song 
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 10:49 AM
To: chenhu...@chinatelecom.cn; opsawg 
Cc: draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework 
Subject: RE: [OPSAWG] Comments to draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-04
 
Hi Huanan,
 
Thanks for the suggestion! I’ll make corresponding enhancements in the next 
revision. See more comments inline.
 
Best regards,
Haoyu
 
From: OPSAWG  On Behalf Of chenhu...@chinatelecom.cn
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2019 7:22 PM
To: opsawg 
Cc: draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework 
Subject: [OPSAWG] Comments to draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-04
 
Hi Haoyu,
 
I think this work is useful that can help operators to understand the IFIT 
capabilities and choose among different technologies for the deployment. It’s 
invaluable for application-aware network operations.
Some thoughts after going through the document.
1.  I fail to see the whole picture of the IFIT framework with Figure 1. You 
listed several functional components in section 2. But I cannot see where they 
sit in the figure and how they interact to accomplish a close loop. So my 
suggestion is to revise figure 1 with more information.
[HS] It’s challenging to put too much information in a txt based figure. 
Probably I’ll add another figure to show how the components work together.
 
[HS2] I add a new figure and some description to show how the components work 
together to form a closed loop.
 
   +-+
   | |
+--+  iFIT Applications  |<--+
|  | |   |
|  +-+   |
| Technique Selection|
| and Integration|
||
|Smart FlowSmart |
|and Data closed-loop  Data  |
|Selection Export|
||
|   +++
V  +-+|
  +--+ Encapsulation  +-+||
  |  iFIT| and Tunneling  |  iFIT   |||
  |  Head|--->| ||+
  |  Node||  Nodes  |+
  +--++-+
  DNPDNP
 
   An iFIT application would pick a suite of telemetry techniques based   on 
its requirements and apply an initial technique to the data plane.   It then 
configures the iFIT head nodes to decide the initial target   flows/packets and 
telemetry data set, the encapsulation and tunneling   scheme based on the 
underlying network architecture, and the iFIT-   capable nodes to decide the 
initial telemetry data export policy.   Based on the network condition and the 
analysis results of the   telemetry data, the iFIT application can change the 
telemetry   technique, the flow/data selection policy, and the data export   
approach in realtime without breaking the normal network operation.   Many of 
such dynamic changes can be done through loading and   unloading DNPs.
 
 
 
2.  In section 2, overview, you mentioned two basic on-path telemetry data 
collection modes, i.e., passport and postcard. I did not see more details but 
one definition. It would be really useful for the operators to understand the 
pros and cons, and when to use which. So that it can guide the operators to 
choose the right solution in their network. So maybe one section on this is 
welcome.
[HS] Some of comparisons have been discussed in other drafts, but it’s a good 
idea to cover it here.  
 
[HS2]
   2.1.  Passport vs. Postcard[passport-postcard] first uses the analogy of 
passport and postcard   to 

Re: [OPSAWG] Comments to draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-04

[Haoyu Song]

Hi Huanan,

I’ve made proposed changes to address each of your comments (see below). Please 
take a look and let me know what you think.

Thanks!

Haoyu

From: Haoyu Song
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2019 10:49 AM
To: chenhu...@chinatelecom.cn; opsawg 
Cc: draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework 
Subject: RE: [OPSAWG] Comments to draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-04

Hi Huanan,

Thanks for the suggestion! I’ll make corresponding enhancements in the next 
revision. See more comments inline.

Best regards,
Haoyu

From: OPSAWG mailto:opsawg-boun...@ietf.org>> On 
Behalf Of chenhu...@chinatelecom.cn
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2019 7:22 PM
To: opsawg mailto:opsawg@ietf.org>>
Cc: draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework 
mailto:draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framew...@ietf.org>>
Subject: [OPSAWG] Comments to draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework-04

Hi Haoyu,

I think this work is useful that can help operators to understand the IFIT 
capabilities and choose among different technologies for the deployment. It’s 
invaluable for application-aware network operations.
Some thoughts after going through the document.
1.  I fail to see the whole picture of the IFIT framework with Figure 1. You 
listed several functional components in section 2. But I cannot see where they 
sit in the figure and how they interact to accomplish a close loop. So my 
suggestion is to revise figure 1 with more information.
[HS] It’s challenging to put too much information in a txt based figure. 
Probably I’ll add another figure to show how the components work together.

[HS2] I add a new figure and some description to show how the components work 
together to form a closed loop.

   +-+
   | |
+--+  iFIT Applications  |<--+
|  | |   |
|  +-+   |
| Technique Selection|
| and Integration|
||
|Smart FlowSmart |
|and Data closed-loop  Data  |
|Selection Export|
||
|   +++
V  +-+|
  +--+ Encapsulation  +-+||
  |  iFIT| and Tunneling  |  iFIT   |||
  |  Head|--->| ||+
  |  Node||  Nodes  |+
  +--++-+
  DNPDNP


   An iFIT application would pick a suite of telemetry techniques based

   on its requirements and apply an initial technique to the data plane.

   It then configures the iFIT head nodes to decide the initial target

   flows/packets and telemetry data set, the encapsulation and tunneling

   scheme based on the underlying network architecture, and the iFIT-

   capable nodes to decide the initial telemetry data export policy.

   Based on the network condition and the analysis results of the

   telemetry data, the iFIT application can change the telemetry

   technique, the flow/data selection policy, and the data export

   approach in realtime without breaking the normal network operation.

   Many of such dynamic changes can be done through loading and

   unloading DNPs.



2.  In section 2, overview, you mentioned two basic on-path telemetry data 
collection modes, i.e., passport and postcard. I did not see more details but 
one definition. It would be really useful for the operators to understand the 
pros and cons, and when to use which. So that it can guide the operators to 
choose the right solution in their network. So maybe one section on this is 
welcome.
[HS] Some of comparisons have been discussed in other drafts, but it’s a good 
idea to cover it here.

[HS2]

   2.1.  Passport vs. Postcard



   [passport-postcard] first uses the analogy of passport and postcard

   to describe how the packet trace data can be collected and exported.

   In the passport mode, each node on the path adds the telemetry data

   to the user packets.  The accumulated data trace is exported at a

   configured end node.  In the postcard mode, each node directly

   exports the telemetry data using an independent packet while the user

   packets are intact.



   A prominent advantage of the passport mode is that it naturally

   retains the telemetry data correlation along the entire path.  The

   passport mode also reduces the number of data export packets and the

   bandwidth consumed by the data export packets.  These can help to

   make the data collector and analyzer's work 

Re: [OPSAWG] iFIT framework draft

[Haoyu Song]

Hi Giuseppe,

Thank you very much for your contribution! I'll merge it into our next revision 
of the draft.
Indeed, I hope the framework can inspire more applications.

Best,
Haoyu

From: Giuseppe Fioccola 
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 5:57 AM
To: Haoyu Song ; opsawg@ietf.org; 
draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framew...@ietf.org
Subject: RE: iFIT framework draft

Dear Haoyu, All,
As promised, here is the proposed new section.
Feel free to edit and let me know your opinion.

"
#.  Intelligent Network Telemetry applications

   The closed-loop nature of the IFIT framework allows numerous new
   applications which enable future network operation architecture.

   In general, it is resource consuming to monitor continuously all
   the flows and all the paths of the network. So a flexible and
   dynamic performance monitoring approach is desired. Some concepts
   like the Interactive Query with Dynamic Network Probes, as
   previously described, go in this direction.

   A good example could be in [I-D.ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark]
   that describes an intelligent performance management based on the
   network condition. The idea is to split the monitoring network
   into Clusters. The Cluster partition that can be applied to every
   type of network graph and the possibility to combine Clusters at
   different levels enable the so called Network Zooming. It allows
   a Controller to calibrate the network telemetry, so that it can
   start without examining in depth and monitor the network as a
   whole. In case of necessity (packet loss or too high delay), an
   immediate detailed analysis can be reconfigured. In particular,
   the Controller, that is aware of the network topology, can set up
   the most suited Cluster partition by changing the traffic filter
   or activate new measurement points and the problem can be localized
  with a step-by-step process.

   To apply this mechanism an IFIT Application on top of the Controllers
   can manage and the IFIT closed loop allows its dynamic and flexible
   operation.
"

Best Regards,

Giuseppe


From: Giuseppe Fioccola
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 1:51 PM
To: 'Haoyu Song' mailto:haoyu.s...@futurewei.com>>; 
opsawg@ietf.org; 
draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framew...@ietf.org
Subject: RE: iFIT framework draft

Dear Haoyu,
Yes, I'm happy to send you some text in the coming days, so you can include it 
in the draft.

Best Regards,

Giuseppe

From: Haoyu Song [mailto:haoyu.s...@futurewei.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 7:57 PM
To: Giuseppe Fioccola 
mailto:giuseppe.fiocc...@huawei.com>>; 
opsawg@ietf.org; 
draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framew...@ietf.org
Subject: RE: iFIT framework draft

Hi Giuseppe,

Thank you very much for the very good suggestion. Indeed, the closed-loop 
nature of the framework allows numerous new applications which I believe is 
indispensable in future's network operation architecture.
If you have any suggested section or text available, I'll be happy to include 
it in the draft. That way, you can fully construe your thought. Otherwise, I'll 
add some text by myself later. What do you  think?

Best,
Haoyu

From: Giuseppe Fioccola 
mailto:giuseppe.fiocc...@huawei.com>>
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 7:38 AM
To: Haoyu Song mailto:haoyu.s...@futurewei.com>>; 
opsawg@ietf.org; 
draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framew...@ietf.org
Subject: RE: iFIT framework draft

Dear All,
I have read the draft and, I think it is a very good framework, in particular 
with reference to the real practical challenges.
My suggestion is to highlight a bit more the enabled closed-loop approach that 
is a great added value in my opinion.
A possible way can be to introduce a new Section named "Intelligent Network 
telemetry" about the flexible and dynamic monitoring. Some concepts like the 
interactive query with dynamic network probes can be included.
An example could also be in draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark, that describes 
a flexible performance monitoring approach based on the network condition and 
an iFIT Application on top of the Controllers could apply this intelligent 
mechanism. Or, also, other examples can be reported.

Let me know what you think.

Best Regards,

Giuseppe


From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoyu Song
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 8:06 PM
To: opsawg@ietf.org; 
draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framew...@ietf.org
Subject: [OPSAWG] iFIT framework draft

Hi all,

We recently uploaded a newer version of the iFIT framework draft.

Re: [OPSAWG] iFIT framework draft

[Giuseppe Fioccola]

Dear Haoyu, All,
As promised, here is the proposed new section.
Feel free to edit and let me know your opinion.

"
#.  Intelligent Network Telemetry applications

   The closed-loop nature of the IFIT framework allows numerous new
   applications which enable future network operation architecture.

   In general, it is resource consuming to monitor continuously all
   the flows and all the paths of the network. So a flexible and
   dynamic performance monitoring approach is desired. Some concepts
   like the Interactive Query with Dynamic Network Probes, as
   previously described, go in this direction.

   A good example could be in [I-D.ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark]
   that describes an intelligent performance management based on the
   network condition. The idea is to split the monitoring network
   into Clusters. The Cluster partition that can be applied to every
   type of network graph and the possibility to combine Clusters at
   different levels enable the so called Network Zooming. It allows
   a Controller to calibrate the network telemetry, so that it can
   start without examining in depth and monitor the network as a
   whole. In case of necessity (packet loss or too high delay), an
   immediate detailed analysis can be reconfigured. In particular,
   the Controller, that is aware of the network topology, can set up
   the most suited Cluster partition by changing the traffic filter
   or activate new measurement points and the problem can be localized
  with a step-by-step process.

   To apply this mechanism an IFIT Application on top of the Controllers
   can manage and the IFIT closed loop allows its dynamic and flexible
   operation.
"

Best Regards,

Giuseppe


From: Giuseppe Fioccola
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 1:51 PM
To: 'Haoyu Song' ; opsawg@ietf.org; 
draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framew...@ietf.org
Subject: RE: iFIT framework draft

Dear Haoyu,
Yes, I'm happy to send you some text in the coming days, so you can include it 
in the draft.

Best Regards,

Giuseppe

From: Haoyu Song [mailto:haoyu.s...@futurewei.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 7:57 PM
To: Giuseppe Fioccola 
mailto:giuseppe.fiocc...@huawei.com>>; 
opsawg@ietf.org; 
draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framew...@ietf.org
Subject: RE: iFIT framework draft

Hi Giuseppe,

Thank you very much for the very good suggestion. Indeed, the closed-loop 
nature of the framework allows numerous new applications which I believe is 
indispensable in future's network operation architecture.
If you have any suggested section or text available, I'll be happy to include 
it in the draft. That way, you can fully construe your thought. Otherwise, I'll 
add some text by myself later. What do you  think?

Best,
Haoyu

From: Giuseppe Fioccola 
mailto:giuseppe.fiocc...@huawei.com>>
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 7:38 AM
To: Haoyu Song mailto:haoyu.s...@futurewei.com>>; 
opsawg@ietf.org; 
draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framew...@ietf.org
Subject: RE: iFIT framework draft

Dear All,
I have read the draft and, I think it is a very good framework, in particular 
with reference to the real practical challenges.
My suggestion is to highlight a bit more the enabled closed-loop approach that 
is a great added value in my opinion.
A possible way can be to introduce a new Section named "Intelligent Network 
telemetry" about the flexible and dynamic monitoring. Some concepts like the 
interactive query with dynamic network probes can be included.
An example could also be in draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark, that describes 
a flexible performance monitoring approach based on the network condition and 
an iFIT Application on top of the Controllers could apply this intelligent 
mechanism. Or, also, other examples can be reported.

Let me know what you think.

Best Regards,

Giuseppe


From: OPSAWG [mailto:opsawg-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoyu Song
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 8:06 PM
To: opsawg@ietf.org; 
draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framew...@ietf.org
Subject: [OPSAWG] iFIT framework draft

Hi all,

We recently uploaded a newer version of the iFIT framework draft.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-opsawg-ifit-framework/

The purposes of the drafts are:


  1.  Clarify the terms and underlying techniques for data plane on-path 
telemetry
  2.  Present a framework that addresses the practical implementation and 
deployment issues
  3.  Identify the open issues and directions for related standard development

Given the wide