Re: Offshore protests
- Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hyderabad. USS Enterprise will have to be renamed to USS Utar Pradesh, with captain Sanjay and Mr. Spock at the helm. I can definitely see a value there. 'sOK. But I swear the first time I see anyone suggesting we outsource driving taxis or milking cows to Mars via Internet, I'll spew!... Cheers Nuno Souto [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Nuno Souto INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Offshore protests
Dale Carnegie ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has recently been reprinted - after 50 years!) peter edinburgh -Original Message- From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's book, an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' Art and Science of Tuning Oracle reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should give up our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones and get rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Orr, Steve Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.j html?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538
Re: Offshore protests
My age is the answer to the question of life, universe and everything. Unfortunately, I'm no longer in my twenties. On 2003.09.23 05:13, Robson, Peter wrote: Dale Carnegie ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has recently been reprinted - after 50 years!) peter edinburgh -Original Message- From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's book, an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' Art and Science of Tuning Oracle reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should give up our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones and get rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Orr, Steve Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.j html?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen
RE: Offshore protests
Hee hee hee! Then make the most of that erudite reply - you only have one year to indulge it! ps - just bought the CDs -Original Message- From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 1:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests My age is the answer to the question of life, universe and everything. Unfortunately, I'm no longer in my twenties. On 2003.09.23 05:13, Robson, Peter wrote: Dale Carnegie ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has recently been reprinted - after 50 years!) peter edinburgh -Original Message- From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's book, an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' Art and Science of Tuning Oracle reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should give up our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones and get rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Orr, Steve Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.j html?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please
Re: Offshore protests
I realize that it may be terrifying, but there is a great deal of value in becoming indistinguishable. How many accounting/hr/finance jobs are going overseas? None that I have heard of. There are a ton of managers I wish we could offshore (but only about 1 mile off shore...). Bear with me for a moment, as I see the issue of 'self tuning' databases and the 'death' of the dba as all of the same larger issue. Consider Cary's quote Work first to reduce the biggest response time component of a business' most important user action. To optimize we must understand the business and the user, not just look at raw statistics from Enterprise Manager. This requires constant interaction with all levels of business, knowledge of the application architecture and awareness of the business goals. None of these can be done by a canned application nor isolated geek. If you solve problems and make yourself valuable to the business, you are in a better position to stay when others are let go. I'm not advocating any of the sneaky, unethical, self-promoting activities that some of our most despised coworkers are good at, but it is important to manage your own personal, technical and business reputations in a favorable light. Before I step down from my soapbox, I'd like to address the issue of 'idle' events. In my opinion, there are no 'idle' events. Each event can have meaning within the context of the system. I have seen SQL*Net messages indicate a chatty java program and poor file configuration. I have also seen cases where these messages consumed hours of time, but were safe to ignore. The only way you can understand when to discount these events is to have a solid understanding of the application/process. Which is something those canned apps can't do. The only way to understand properly is communication. ducking for cover... Dan Mladen Gogala wrote: No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's book, an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' Art and Science of Tuning Oracle reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should give up our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones and get rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA begin:vcard n:Fink;Daniel x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Sun Microsystems, Inc. adr:;; version:2.1 title:Lead, Database Services x-mozilla-cpt:;9168 fn:Daniel W. Fink end:vcard
RE: Offshore protests
Peter If you feel the being an experienced Oracle DBA will continue to be as scarce a commodity as it was during the dot-com boom, then read no further. If however, you feel that in the future you may no longer rely on being treated like royalty, then I would argue that Dale has some very relevant points for the DBA that wants to increase interpersonal skills. And I have surveyed many of the self-help books being published and haven't found anyone that says it better. The only problem, as you say with the 50+ years since he wrote, many of his examples are dated. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dale Carnegie ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has recently been reprinted - after 50 years!) peter edinburgh -Original Message- From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's book, an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' Art and Science of Tuning Oracle reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should give up our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones and get rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Orr, Steve Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.j html?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please
RE: Offshore protests
DBA Interpersonal skills Before Dale Carnegie: What the HELL do you want NOW!! SHUTUP!! Get OUT and don't come back until you do what I told you to last time! Stop wasting my TIME with your sh*tty code! After Dale Carnegie: Hi! Brad OdlandDamn glad to see you! hand thrusting out, smiling Is that your query? Say, you look terrific is that a new suit? Please take my chair. No no no it is perfectly finecan I get you a coffee? Soda? How are the wife and kids? Greeeat...yehhh. Tell them I said hi and it was nice to see them at the company picnic. :::GAK!...I just gagged thinking about this:: -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:20 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Peter If you feel the being an experienced Oracle DBA will continue to be as scarce a commodity as it was during the dot-com boom, then read no further. If however, you feel that in the future you may no longer rely on being treated like royalty, then I would argue that Dale has some very relevant points for the DBA that wants to increase interpersonal skills. And I have surveyed many of the self-help books being published and haven't found anyone that says it better. The only problem, as you say with the 50+ years since he wrote, many of his examples are dated. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dale Carnegie ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has recently been reprinted - after 50 years!) peter edinburgh -Original Message- From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's book, an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' Art and Science of Tuning Oracle reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should give up our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones and get rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Orr, Steve Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.j html?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California
RE: Offshore protests
Hmmm, odd reply, Dennis. I think you may just have inserted a perjorative complexion into the reading of my email, which was most certainly not there! Or perhaps you were confusing my reply with those from others on this thread? The 'winning of friends and influencing people' as stated by DC is as relevant today as it was when first published, if a bit corny. It was, after all, written for a very different world than our own. So you are, after all, absolutely correct in your analysis. (ps - that is a little practical Dale Carnegie for you to enjoy!) peter edinburgh -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:20 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests Peter If you feel the being an experienced Oracle DBA will continue to be as scarce a commodity as it was during the dot-com boom, then read no further. If however, you feel that in the future you may no longer rely on being treated like royalty, then I would argue that Dale has some very relevant points for the DBA that wants to increase interpersonal skills. And I have surveyed many of the self-help books being published and haven't found anyone that says it better. The only problem, as you say with the 50+ years since he wrote, many of his examples are dated. Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 4:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dale Carnegie ? ! My - that dates you! (Unless it has recently been reprinted - after 50 years!) peter edinburgh -Original Message- From: Mladen Gogala [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 5:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's book, an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' Art and Science of Tuning Oracle reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should give up our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones and get rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Orr, Steve Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.j html?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please
RE: Offshore protests + Idle events (to keep it On-track!)
Dan, You said that very well (as usual). The problem is that Management doesn't usually see the downside of their downsizing actions until the stuff hits the fan. And Larry's statements about self-tuning databases are not helping as well - they help apply pressure on a dwindling market, whether real or apparent. The ability to communicate complex problems in simple, everyday language will _always_ stand you in good stead - whether to the business, to management or your fellow workers. I recently replied patiently without sarcasm to a question on an internal Java user group about why compiling procedures/packages when users are online is a bad idea - I could have been rude and told the largerly development audience off. The VP of Development was on that list (I didn't know about this) and wrote me a nice complimentary note. I hope to stand well when there is a shake-up later on :) On Idle events - I had a situation previously when I was remotely diagnosing a performance issue and noticed a large number of PQ related idle events. Turns out that the DBA had switched on PQ to make the queries 'run faster' - the two CPU server was just choked to death after this. These 'idle' events from a Statspack report helped me solve the issue (turn off PQ on all tables - it was an OLTP system). John Kanagaraj DB Soft Inc Phone: 408-970-7002 (W) Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at http://www.klove.com ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and do not reflect those of my employer or customers ** -Original Message- From: Daniel Fink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 8:05 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests I realize that it may be terrifying, but there is a great deal of value in becoming indistinguishable. How many accounting/hr/finance jobs are going overseas? None that I have heard of. There are a ton of managers I wish we could offshore (but only about 1 mile off shore...). Bear with me for a moment, as I see the issue of 'self tuning' databases and the 'death' of the dba as all of the same larger issue. Consider Cary's quote Work first to reduce the biggest response time component of a business' most important user action. To optimize we must understand the business and the user, not just look at raw statistics from Enterprise Manager. This requires constant interaction with all levels of business, knowledge of the application architecture and awareness of the business goals. None of these can be done by a canned application nor isolated geek. If you solve problems and make yourself valuable to the business, you are in a better position to stay when others are let go. I'm not advocating any of the sneaky, unethical, self-promoting activities that some of our most despised coworkers are good at, but it is important to manage your own personal, technical and business reputations in a favorable light. Before I step down from my soapbox, I'd like to address the issue of 'idle' events. In my opinion, there are no 'idle' events. Each event can have meaning within the context of the system. I have seen SQL*Net messages indicate a chatty java program and poor file configuration. I have also seen cases where these messages consumed hours of time, but were safe to ignore. The only way you can understand when to discount these events is to have a solid understanding of the application/process. Which is something those canned apps can't do. The only way to understand properly is communication. ducking for cover... Dan Mladen Gogala wrote: No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's book, an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' Art and Science of Tuning Oracle reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should give up our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones and get rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: John Kanagaraj INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Offshore protests + Idle events (to keep it On-track!)
If I install statspack, I always 'fix' the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table, and also change the varibale top_n_events to 10 (from 5) in spreport.sql. Statspack is a very generic tool. One must 'tune' it to reflect ones environment... :) - Kirti --- John Kanagaraj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan, You said that very well (as usual). The problem is that Management doesn't usually see the downside of their downsizing actions until the stuff hits the fan. And Larry's statements about self-tuning databases are not helping as well - they help apply pressure on a dwindling market, whether real or apparent. The ability to communicate complex problems in simple, everyday language will _always_ stand you in good stead - whether to the business, to management or your fellow workers. I recently replied patiently without sarcasm to a question on an internal Java user group about why compiling procedures/packages when users are online is a bad idea - I could have been rude and told the largerly development audience off. The VP of Development was on that list (I didn't know about this) and wrote me a nice complimentary note. I hope to stand well when there is a shake-up later on :) On Idle events - I had a situation previously when I was remotely diagnosing a performance issue and noticed a large number of PQ related idle events. Turns out that the DBA had switched on PQ to make the queries 'run faster' - the two CPU server was just choked to death after this. These 'idle' events from a Statspack report helped me solve the issue (turn off PQ on all tables - it was an OLTP system). John Kanagaraj DB Soft Inc Phone: 408-970-7002 (W) Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at http://www.klove.com ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and do not reflect those of my employer or customers ** __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Offshore protests + Idle events (to keep it On-track!)
Can you elaborate on fixing the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table. Thanks Stephane Paquette Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Kirtikumar Deshpande Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 2:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If I install statspack, I always 'fix' the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table, and also change the varibale top_n_events to 10 (from 5) in spreport.sql. Statspack is a very generic tool. One must 'tune' it to reflect ones environment... :) - Kirti --- John Kanagaraj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan, You said that very well (as usual). The problem is that Management doesn't usually see the downside of their downsizing actions until the stuff hits the fan. And Larry's statements about self-tuning databases are not helping as well - they help apply pressure on a dwindling market, whether real or apparent. The ability to communicate complex problems in simple, everyday language will _always_ stand you in good stead - whether to the business, to management or your fellow workers. I recently replied patiently without sarcasm to a question on an internal Java user group about why compiling procedures/packages when users are online is a bad idea - I could have been rude and told the largerly development audience off. The VP of Development was on that list (I didn't know about this) and wrote me a nice complimentary note. I hope to stand well when there is a shake-up later on :) On Idle events - I had a situation previously when I was remotely diagnosing a performance issue and noticed a large number of PQ related idle events. Turns out that the DBA had switched on PQ to make the queries 'run faster' - the two CPU server was just choked to death after this. These 'idle' events from a Statspack report helped me solve the issue (turn off PQ on all tables - it was an OLTP system). John Kanagaraj DB Soft Inc Phone: 408-970-7002 (W) Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at http://www.klove.com ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and do not reflect those of my employer or customers ** __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Stephane Paquette INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Offshore protests
Well, if we continue the trend, now allow me a little bit of SF here, then we will become a nation of indistinguishable bean counters while going to the moon and breaking the barriers in physics will be subcontracted to Bangalore and Hyderabad. USS Enterprise will have to be renamed to USS Utar Pradesh, with captain Sanjay and Mr. Spock at the helm. I can definitely see a value there. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Fink Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 11:05 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests I realize that it may be terrifying, but there is a great deal of value in becoming indistinguishable. How many accounting/hr/finance jobs are going overseas? None that I have heard of. There are a ton of managers I wish we could offshore (but only about 1 mile off shore...). Bear with me for a moment, as I see the issue of 'self tuning' databases and the 'death' of the dba as all of the same larger issue. Consider Cary's quote Work first to reduce the biggest response time component of a business' most important user action. To optimize we must understand the business and the user, not just look at raw statistics from Enterprise Manager. This requires constant interaction with all levels of business, knowledge of the application architecture and awareness of the business goals. None of these can be done by a canned application nor isolated geek. If you solve problems and make yourself valuable to the business, you are in a better position to stay when others are let go. I'm not advocating any of the sneaky, unethical, self-promoting activities that some of our most despised coworkers are good at, but it is important to manage your own personal, technical and business reputations in a favorable light. Before I step down from my soapbox, I'd like to address the issue of 'idle' events. In my opinion, there are no 'idle' events. Each event can have meaning within the context of the system. I have seen SQL*Net messages indicate a chatty java program and poor file configuration. I have also seen cases where these messages consumed hours of time, but were safe to ignore. The only way you can understand when to discount these events is to have a solid understanding of the application/process. Which is something those canned apps can't do. The only way to understand properly is communication. ducking for cover... Dan Mladen Gogala wrote: No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's book, an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' Art and Science of Tuning Oracle reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should give up our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones and get rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Offshore protests + Idle events (to keep it On-track!)
I remove from this table the events deemed not idle for the database and Application supported by it. SQL*Net message related events can be important in client/server type environments. HTH, - Kirti --- Stephane Paquette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you elaborate on fixing the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table. Thanks Stephane Paquette Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Kirtikumar Deshpande Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 2:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If I install statspack, I always 'fix' the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table, and also change the varibale top_n_events to 10 (from 5) in spreport.sql. Statspack is a very generic tool. One must 'tune' it to reflect ones environment... :) - Kirti --- John Kanagaraj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan, You said that very well (as usual). The problem is that Management doesn't usually see the downside of their downsizing actions until the stuff hits the fan. And Larry's statements about self-tuning databases are not helping as well - they help apply pressure on a dwindling market, whether real or apparent. The ability to communicate complex problems in simple, everyday language will _always_ stand you in good stead - whether to the business, to management or your fellow workers. I recently replied patiently without sarcasm to a question on an internal Java user group about why compiling procedures/packages when users are online is a bad idea - I could have been rude and told the largerly development audience off. The VP of Development was on that list (I didn't know about this) and wrote me a nice complimentary note. I hope to stand well when there is a shake-up later on :) On Idle events - I had a situation previously when I was remotely diagnosing a performance issue and noticed a large number of PQ related idle events. Turns out that the DBA had switched on PQ to make the queries 'run faster' - the two CPU server was just choked to death after this. These 'idle' events from a Statspack report helped me solve the issue (turn off PQ on all tables - it was an OLTP system). John Kanagaraj DB Soft Inc Phone: 408-970-7002 (W) Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at http://www.klove.com ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and do not reflect those of my employer or customers ** __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Stephane Paquette INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Offshore protests + Idle events (to keep it On-track!)
thanks -Original Message- Kirtikumar Deshpande Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 2:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I remove from this table the events deemed not idle for the database and Application supported by it. SQL*Net message related events can be important in client/server type environments. HTH, - Kirti --- Stephane Paquette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can you elaborate on fixing the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table. Thanks Stephane Paquette Administrateur de bases de donnees Database Administrator Standard Life www.standardlife.ca Tel. (514) 499-7999 7470 and (514) 925-7187 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Kirtikumar Deshpande Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 2:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L If I install statspack, I always 'fix' the STATS$IDLE_EVENT table, and also change the varibale top_n_events to 10 (from 5) in spreport.sql. Statspack is a very generic tool. One must 'tune' it to reflect ones environment... :) - Kirti --- John Kanagaraj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dan, You said that very well (as usual). The problem is that Management doesn't usually see the downside of their downsizing actions until the stuff hits the fan. And Larry's statements about self-tuning databases are not helping as well - they help apply pressure on a dwindling market, whether real or apparent. The ability to communicate complex problems in simple, everyday language will _always_ stand you in good stead - whether to the business, to management or your fellow workers. I recently replied patiently without sarcasm to a question on an internal Java user group about why compiling procedures/packages when users are online is a bad idea - I could have been rude and told the largerly development audience off. The VP of Development was on that list (I didn't know about this) and wrote me a nice complimentary note. I hope to stand well when there is a shake-up later on :) On Idle events - I had a situation previously when I was remotely diagnosing a performance issue and noticed a large number of PQ related idle events. Turns out that the DBA had switched on PQ to make the queries 'run faster' - the two CPU server was just choked to death after this. These 'idle' events from a Statspack report helped me solve the issue (turn off PQ on all tables - it was an OLTP system). John Kanagaraj DB Soft Inc Phone: 408-970-7002 (W) Listen to great, commercial-free christian music 24x7x365 at http://www.klove.com ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and do not reflect those of my employer or customers ** __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Stephane Paquette INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Kirtikumar Deshpande INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other
Re: Offshore protests
I can see it now. 2103 - Can you believe it! They just outsourced my job to a martian! 2203 - Can you believe it! They just outsourced my job to some guy from Alpha Centauri 2303 - Can you believe it! They just outsourced my job to a being from a parallel dimension! 2403 - Can you believe it! They just outsourced my job to myself right after I graduated from college 25 years ago! Mladen Gogala wrote: Well, if we continue the trend, now allow me a little bit of SF here, then we will become a nation of indistinguishable bean counters while going to the moon and breaking the barriers in physics will be subcontracted to Bangalore and Hyderabad. USS Enterprise will have to be renamed to USS Utar Pradesh, with captain Sanjay and Mr. Spock at the helm. I can definitely see a value there. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA begin:vcard n:Fink;Daniel x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:Sun Microsystems, Inc. adr:;; version:2.1 title:Lead, Database Services x-mozilla-cpt:;9168 fn:Daniel W. Fink end:vcard
RE: Offshore protests
We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Offshore protests
The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: KENNETH JANUSZ INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Offshore protests
Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: KENNETH JANUSZ INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any
RE: Offshore protests
But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Offshore protests
You'll have to check with Tony Soprano. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:34 AM But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: KENNETH JANUSZ INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Offshore protests
No problem with beating people up. Violence is, contrary to Chris Lawson's book, an integral part of DBA job. BTW, Chris Lawsons' Art and Science of Tuning Oracle reads like Dale Carnegie for database administrators. Basically, we should give up our cynical attitude, become indistinguishable from the HR/finance drones and get rid of our geekish culture. Really terrifying stuff. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Orr, Steve Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.j html?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: RE: Offshore protests
dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. From: Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Offshore protests
Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice? I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike, and we did. 22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now. Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union. --Walt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. From: Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: RE: Offshore protests
A trust? That is only marginally better then the axis of evil. Do we risk getting bombed if we establish a trust? -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. From: Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=1500014 6 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor
Re: Offshore protests
Yea they do, i was forced to be part of a union when employed by the State of OH EPA. There were your typical state employees(lazy and not doing much, didnt want to learn anything new, etc) and us DBAs working like nuts and capped on what we could make(back in those days, '94-96, it was like 55K and we had to pay union dues). Damn dumbest thing i've ever seen, union white-collar workers. joe Weaver, Walt wrote: Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice? I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike, and we did. 22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now. Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union. --Walt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. From: Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Joe Testa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services
RE: RE: Offshore protests
Jimmy Hoffa would probably agree with you, once they pull him out from beneath Meadowlands. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Weaver, Walt Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: Offshore protests Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice? I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike, and we did. 22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now. Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union. --Walt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. From: Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name
RE: RE: Offshore protests
Mladen Gogala scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon: A trust? That is only marginally better then the axis of evil. Do we risk getting bombed if we establish a trust? maybe, but remember some of us can bomb back.;-) -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song [EMAIL PROTECTED] A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms [ ] it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. - Albert Einstein -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Thater, William INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Offshore protests
Weaver, Walt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] on Monday, September 22, 2003 12:35 PM said; I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike, and we did. 22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now. Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union. There is a downside to unions. I read an article (Atlantic maybe) that reported in some cases it was more profitable for the union membership to go on strike and shut down the business - senior members got unemployment, benefits from the state for being on strike, early retirement and etc. Younger members lost their job. On the upside, there is no doubt in my mind that any benefits you have at your current job are the result of Unions and related groups agitating for better working conditions lo' these many years ago. On the gripping hand, the Federal Employees Union and Coffee Break society (FDIC Branch) created some of the worst working conditions I've seen - for the non-Union (contract) labor working alongside them. Can't spend funds to buy a guy lunch in recognition of his long service (five years!) because he's non-union. Contract employees have to have their office window closd off with a partition wall because the Rules state contractors don't _get_ windows. Etc. ~brian -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Brian Dunbar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Offshore protests
under the goalpost right? joe Mladen Gogala wrote: Jimmy Hoffa would probably agree with you, once they pull him out from beneath Meadowlands. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Weaver, Walt Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: Offshore protests Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice? I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike, and we did. 22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now. Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union. --Walt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. From: Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send
RE: RE: Offshore protests
While I wouldn't say I was anti-union, when I worked unionized jobs (construction, teaching, civil service) a long time ago -- it was like working for two bosses. If you disagreed with the union you had no recourse and were likely to experience problems if you did. And you really don't want to live through a strike. kip |Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice? |I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike, |and we did. |22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to |work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been |working at for 22 years now. |Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union. |--Walt | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM | To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L | Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests | | | dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it | and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union | its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. | | | | From: Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT | To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Subject: RE: Offshore protests | | But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... | Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) | | -Original Message- | Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM | To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L | | | Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we | frequently get burnt by fire. | | -- | Mladen Gogala | Oracle DBA | | | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On | Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ | Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM | To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L | Subject: Re: Offshore protests | | | The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, | Steel Workers, AFSME? | | Ken Janusz, CPIM | | - Original Message - | To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM | | |We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm | sure that all |heads | on |the Capitol Hill |would turn when both members show up with banners, | demanding better |pay | for |starved database |administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for |joining | the |union? If we were |in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the | White Heart pub |(or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and |exchange the union stories. | |-- |Mladen Gogala |Oracle DBA | | | | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf | Of DENNIS WILLIAMS | Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM | To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L | Subject: Offshore protests | | | Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of | protesting. | | | http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 | | | Dennis Williams | DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA | Lifetouch, Inc. | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- | Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net | -- | Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS | INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 | http://www.fatcity.com | San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web | hosting services | -- | Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net | -- | Author: Orr, Steve |INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com | San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web | hosting services | | - | To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message | to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in | the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L | (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may | also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). | | | -- | Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net | -- | Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com | San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services | - | To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message | to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in | the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L | (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may | also send the HELP command for other information (like
Re: Offshore protests
Yes. he was under the visitors goalpost, but I heard he didn't like it and moved to the home team's goalpost. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:14 PM under the goalpost right? joe Mladen Gogala wrote: Jimmy Hoffa would probably agree with you, once they pull him out from beneath Meadowlands. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Weaver, Walt Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: Offshore protests Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice? I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike, and we did. 22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now. Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union. --Walt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. From: Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru
RE: RE: Offshore protests
I think Walt beat Kramer's record on Seinfeld (remember the episode where Kramer was on strike at the bagel shop?) I like to contribute to the list where I can... You're welcome. -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice? I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike, and we did. 22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now. Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union. --Walt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. From: Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Weaver, Walt INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat
RE: Offshore protests
Pssst, it's supposed to be a secret. Don't reveal it to anyone who is not on the internet. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Testa Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 2:15 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests under the goalpost right? joe Mladen Gogala wrote: Jimmy Hoffa would probably agree with you, once they pull him out from beneath Meadowlands. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Weaver, Walt Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:35 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: RE: Offshore protests Have any DBA's ever been sued for malpractice? I used to belong to a union. One day the union told us to go on strike, and we did. 22 years later, we're still on strike. I'm sure we'll be going back to work any day now. Then I can quit this temporary IT career I've been working at for 22 years now. Unions suck, IMHO. Worst career move I ever made was joining a union. --Walt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:15 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: RE: Offshore protests dba union could be considered a trust. doctors tried doing it and because they are 'independent businesses' its not a union its a trust. they did it to fight high mal-practice suits. From: Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/09/22 Mon PM 12:34:40 EDT To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Offshore protests But do we have to beat up people who refuse to join... Or make an offer they can't refuse. ;-) -Original Message- Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:00 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Definitely steel workers. We are being left to sweat in dark and we frequently get burnt by fire. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH JANUSZ Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 11:30 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Offshore protests The labor unions would definitely be interested. Teamsters, Steel Workers, AFSME? Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:09 AM We could make a splash by organizing a DBA union. I'm sure that all heads on the Capitol Hill would turn when both members show up with banners, demanding better pay for starved database administrators. What do you think, should we mandate 9i OCP for joining the union? If we were in London, we could have a permanent beer table at the White Heart pub (or is it the Sphere?). We might even encounter Harry Purvis and exchange the union stories. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DENNIS WILLIAMS Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 10:45 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Offshore protests Looks as if tech workers are learning the basics of protesting. http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID =15000146 Dennis Williams DBA, 80%OCP, 100% DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other
