orion-list 1QSb and 1QSa

2001-10-18 Thread Greg Doudna
Returning to the discussion of 1QSb, Russ Gmirkin wrote ... To my mind, a title Messiah of Aaron and Israel -- referring to a single individual -- makes no sense. It just seems unintelligible and self-contradicting, on a common sense level. Where, in the HB or the Qumran corpus

Re: orion-list 1QSb

2001-10-14 Thread Ian Hutchesson
Thanks for your response, Greg. I'll just take the opportunity to deal with the following two matters: 1. Sons of Aaron or sons of Levi? - I think the most likely addressee at 1.19-3.19 is probably the Levites (rather than 'sons of Aaron' as Ian suggests).

RE: orion-list 1QSb and 1QSa

2001-10-13 Thread David C. Hindley
Russell Gmirkin responded: On the first question, one might point to the Oniads as figures holding both high priestly and civil positions. The reference to Messiah the Prince (or the Anointed Prince) at Dan. 9:25 is usually taken to refer to Onias III, assassinated in exile in 170 BCE. Does

Re: orion-list 1QSb and 1QSa (and Daniel)

2001-10-13 Thread RGmyrken
David, 1QS 9:11 refers to the time when there shall come the Prophet and the Messiahs of Aaron and Israel. The Messiah figure or figures we are discussing are thus distinguished from the coming Prophet. J. Collons, _The Scepter and the Star_ (1995) has a chapter devoted to the Messiahs

RE: orion-list 1QSb and 1QSa

2001-10-12 Thread David C. Hindley
Russell Gmirkin said: To my mind, a title Messiah of Aaron and Israel -- referring to a single individual -- makes no sense. It just seems unintelligible and self-contradicting, on a common sense level. Where, in the HB or the Qumran corpus (excluding the phrase in question) is Aaron

orion-list 1QSb and 1QSa

2001-10-11 Thread Greg Doudna
Ian's question on 1QSb is insightful, and agrees with some study I have done on this point. I think the alleged 'high priest' as the addressee of 1QSb 1.19-3.19 (Milik) and (though with some dispute as to the begining and end of the blessing) followed by *every* known study of 1QSb since,

Re: orion-list 1QSb and 1QSa

2001-10-11 Thread RGmyrken
I agree with Ian and Greg that there is no real basis for interpreting 1QSb as addressed to the high priest. On Greg's comments on 1QSa, I think there's a pretty good case to be made that both priestly and lay messiahs are referred to, as conventionally interpreted. Most superficially,

Re: orion-list 1QSb and 1QSa

2001-10-11 Thread Barbara Leger
So let me ask this: what would be the proper definition of a Messiah or messiah in this context? Thanks, Barb Leger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with Ian and Greg that there is no real basis for interpreting 1QSb as addressed to the high priest. On Greg's comments on 1QSa, I think

Re: orion-list 1QSb and 1QSa

2001-10-11 Thread Greg Doudna
Russ Gmirkin writes: On Greg's comments on 1QSa, I think there's a pretty good case to be made that both priestly and lay messiahs are referred to, as conventionally interpreted. Most superficially, other Serekh texts distinguish the Messiahs of Aaron and Israel. Well, maybe they do and