RE: [OT] node.js and express

: Wednesday, 30 November 2016 9:26 AM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express ES6 Typescript AngularJS 1.5 Angular2 Aurelia Polymer YARN NPM react grunt gulp This list extracted from Glav's message should be a hint that JS is on the fritz, and it's t

Re: [OT] node.js and express

> > "The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do > Nothing" > Sadly, with JS I think so. I have some other good news through. Many weeks ago someone in here (I forget sorry!) mentioned a lightweight ORM named Dapper. I had a need for something like that last week, and I

Re: [OT] node.js and express

city in general. > > Is this a "The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing" argument? > > > - Glav > > > > > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On

Re: [OT] node.js and express

m process etc. >> >> o So far, this is working very well and has been a good decision. >> >> >> >> Hope that clarifies my thinking somewhat. >> >> >> >> - Glav >> >> >> >> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com >>

Re: [OT] node.js and express

> > Hope that clarifies my thinking somewhat. > > > > - Glav > > > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Adrian Halid > *Sent:* Monday, 28 November 2016 10:17 AM > *To:* 'ozDotNet' <ozdotne

RE: [OT] node.js and express

' <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: RE: [OT] node.js and express If you were to start a new Enterprise Web Project which has the potential to be continually developed and enhanced over 5 to 10 years what web technology frameworks would you choose? Regards Adrian Halid From: ozdotne

Re: [OT] node.js and express

;> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 12:15 pm Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 at 10:56 Scott Barnes <scott.bar...@gmail.com<mailto:scott.bar...@gmail.com>> wrote: "...Everytim

Re: [OT] node.js and express

IMO these "influential technical people" and vendors just see it as an opportunity to add their name to something new and therefore keep their jobs a bit longer. Plus doing the same old thing is boring so anything new can be a good change even if the old thing was "better". On Monday, 28

Re: [OT] node.js and express

On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 at 10:56 Scott Barnes wrote: > "...Everytime I see a developer use multi-threading I think to myself, > thank you for keeping future consultancy billables alive" - Anonymous > Most developers who create messes don't know what a thread is. Personally,

Re: [OT] node.js and express

> > I **think** Greg Keogh started with this with some investigations on how > hard it was to implement something using framework/technique X. Cool. You > have learnt what not to do, not how to do something with the latest tech > just because Scott Hanselmann mentioned it. > Yeah sorry, it

RE: [OT] node.js and express

November 2016 11:56 AM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express To your point about unqualified devs Dave :- "...Everytime I see a developer use multi-threading I think to myself, thank you for keeping future consultancy billables alive" - Anonymous

Re: [OT] node.js and express

To your point about unqualified devs Dave :- "...Everytime I see a developer use multi-threading I think to myself, thank you for keeping future consultancy billables alive" - Anonymous The more chaos the web devs breed the more the seasoned devs can pick up the win falls from that. ---

Re: [OT] node.js and express

On Mon, 28 Nov 2016 at 10:13 Mark Hurd wrote: > This is getting an off-topic post even more general, but this thread > also suggests to me part of why we're a hard industry to get proper > engineering-level standards applied. > I had a great chat about this with one of our

Re: [OT] node.js and express

This is getting an off-topic post even more general, but this thread also suggests to me part of why we're a hard industry to get proper engineering-level standards applied. We might start to apply standards, but then the technology shifts from under us and the standards are out of date. We then

RE: [OT] node.js and express

] On Behalf Of Paul Glavich Sent: Monday, 28 November 2016 6:18 AM To: 'ozDotNet' <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: RE: [OT] node.js and express Yeah pretty much :) I am a web guy through and through and I don’t mean to hack on people specifically, but as an industry it still manifests a

Re: [OT] node.js and express

On Sun, 27 Nov 2016 at 20:32 Paul Glavich wrote: > You have learnt what not to do, not how to do something with the latest > tech just because Scott Hanselmann mentioned it. > This made me chuckle. David. -- David Connors da...@connors.com | @davidconnors |

RE: [OT] node.js and express

<ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express So Paul, you're basically saying "The standard we walk past, is the standard we accept" hehe :) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 8:31 PM, Paul Glavich <subscri

Re: [OT] node.js and express

nces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Schultz > *Sent:* Friday, 25 November 2016 4:13 PM > > *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> > *Subject:* Re: [OT] node.js and express > > > > @Greg, the last version of LightSwitch you could choose either HTML5 or >

RE: [OT] node.js and express

com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express @Greg, the last version of LightSwitch you could choose either HTML5 or SilverLight on the client. But you're right... it's no longer an option. On 25 November 2016 at 11:25, Greg Low (罗格雷格博士) <g...@greglow.com <mailto:g...@greglow.com>

Re: [OT] node.js and express

et.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Schultz > *Sent:* Friday, 25 November 2016 2:20 PM > > *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> > *Subject:* Re: [OT] node.js and express > > > > Arguably, a productive web-based RAD tool is exactly

Re: [OT] node.js and express

--- > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on > behalf of Scott Barnes <scott.bar...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Friday, November 25, 2016 12:09:38 PM > *To:* ozDotNet > > *Subject:* Re: [OT] node.js and express > &

Re: [OT] node.js and express

> > If in VS and not javascript then productive, else not productive. Not quite, more general: If JavaScript then not productive ;-) Slick and professional tooling supporting a language ecosystem is of vital importance to me and I hope others feel the same way. You can buy the coolest most

Re: [OT] node.js and express

< > ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');>> on > behalf of Scott Barnes <scott.bar...@gmail.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','scott.bar...@gmail.com');>> > *Sent:* Friday, November 25, 2016 12:09:38 PM

RE: [OT] node.js and express

zdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Schultz Sent: Friday, 25 November 2016 2:20 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express Arguably, a productive web-based RAD tool is exactly the sort of niche that Mic

RE: [OT] node.js and express

24 November 2016 9:41 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: RE: [OT] node.js and express I guess the conclusion I would draw from that is not so much that the “web world is so much worse because we have to cater for all these clients” as “the web world is the only feasible

RE: [OT] node.js and express

” From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Schultz Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2016 5:40 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express As I said in my first e-mail, (when Greg was wondering what the key d

Re: [OT] node.js and express

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Greg Keogh wrote: > Totally agree Greg. About 80% of what we are currently building could be >> done in 1/10 of the time using winforms or mvc. >> > > So there are lots of crazy people in here ... Fabulous! > > I can also write Winforms or WPF

Re: [OT] node.js and express

> > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Schultz > *Sent:* Wednesday, 23 November 2016 5:10 PM > *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> > *Subject:* Re: [OT] node.js and express > > > > @Ken,

Re: [OT] node.js and express

> > > > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Schultz > *Sent:* Wednesday, 23 November 2016 5:10 PM > *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> > *Subject:* Re: [OT] node.js and express >

RE: [OT] node.js and express

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Schultz Sent: Wednesday, 23 November 2016 5:10 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express @Ken, your definition of Technical Debt isn't that differen

Re: [OT] node.js and express

@Ken, your definition of Technical Debt isn't that different from that of Martin Fowler's. Although I'd say (with some seriousness) that JavaScript is Technical Debt ;-) I've found many of the things you mention far worse in the web-world (where you sometimes have to cater for everything from a

Re: [OT] node.js and express

The whole web committee structure is why we are stuck in purgatory quagmire swamp of hell. For example, when ECMA 4th Edition almost got legs to move JS forward but Adobe were being a bit of a political animal when it came to hedging their technical bets. Basically, at the time Adobe donated a

Re: [OT] node.js and express

> > Well, I used Hotdog > [This is a Friday topic but] Good god! I remember seeing a prominent newpaper picture back in 1996 of Steve Outtrim lounging back in his Ferrari, purchased on the sales of HotDog HTML editor (apparently he was too young to get insurance for a Porsche). Writing HTML was

RE: [OT] node.js and express

provide much business benefit compared to those other things From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Schultz Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016 4:05 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express Ken, I'm c

RE: [OT] node.js and express

reglow.me/> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016 3:14 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: RE: [OT] node.js and express A couple of possible reasons: - All the emphas

Re: [OT] node.js and express

gt;> Ken >> >> >> >> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ozdot >> net.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Low (??) >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 22 November 2016 2:33 PM >> *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> >> *Subject:* RE: [OT] node.js

Re: [OT] node.js and express

little thick-client app – the real cost of the app gets > buried in IT operations. > > > > Cheers > > Ken > > > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Low (??) > *Sent:* Tuesday, 22 November 2016

RE: [OT] node.js and express

(??) Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016 2:33 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: RE: [OT] node.js and express But that’s a centralized vs distributed argument. I understand that. By why exactly does a centralized development process have to be orders of magnitude slowe

Re: [OT] node.js and express

> *From:* Greg Low (罗格雷格博士) > *Sent:* Tuesday, 22 November 2016 2:33 PM > *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> > *Subject:* RE: [OT] node.js and express > > > > But that’s a centralized vs distributed argument. I understand that. By > why exactly does a centralized devel

RE: [OT] node.js and express

http://greglow.me<http://greglow.me/> From: Greg Low (罗格雷格博士) Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016 2:33 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: RE: [OT] node.js and express But that’s a centralized vs distributed argument. I understand that. By why exactly does a centralized develo

RE: [OT] node.js and express

2 November 2016 2:29 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: RE: [OT] node.js and express From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Schultz Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016 1:5

RE: [OT] node.js and express

et@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express Dr Greg, the situation you describe below is quite rare from what I've seen. If a winform app would suffice then why was it important for the web app to work on multiple browsers? Multiple browser support is usually only really needed for In

RE: [OT] node.js and express

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Nathan Schultz Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016 1:53 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express But many of the same problems persist on the web, and the web has b

Re: [OT] node.js and express

+61 3 8676 4913 > fax > > SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com | http://greglow.me > > > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price > *Sent:* Monday, 21 November 2016 6:59 PM > *To:* ozDo

Re: [OT] node.js and express

thousands) of thick-clients in your environment. > > > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Nathan Schultz > *Sent:* Tuesday, 22 November 2016 12:46 PM > *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> > *Subject:* Re:

RE: [OT] node.js and express

Of Nathan Schultz Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016 12:46 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express @Ken; except that thick clients also are easier to debug and maintain as well;

RE: [OT] node.js and express

to another ☺ From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Low (??) Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016 12:25 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: RE: [OT] node.js and express What do you see as the key drivers Ken? I can gues

RE: [OT] node.js and express

To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express Ack.. meant OutSystems IS a heavy solution. On 22 November 2016 at 09:45, Nathan Schultz <milish...@gmail.com <mailto:milish...@gmail.com> > wrote: @Ken; except that thick clients also a

Re: [OT] node.js and express

t; >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Greg >> >> >> >> Dr Greg Low >> >> >> >> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 >> fax >> >> SQL Down Under | Web: www.

Re: [OT] node.js and express

ilto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer > *Sent:* Tuesday, 22 November 2016 12:15 PM > *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> > *Subject:* RE: [OT] node.js and express > > > > Typical Devs – all they talk about is how much faster/quicker they can &g

RE: [OT] node.js and express

ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016 12:15 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: RE: [OT] node.js and express Typical Devs – all they talk about is how much faster/quicker they can write an app in on

RE: [OT] node.js and express

...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of DotNet Dude Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016 9:15 AM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express Totally agree Greg. About 80% of what we are currently building could be done in 1/10 of the time using winforms or mvc. Some of our c

Re: [OT] node.js and express

I follow a number of CSS and javascript blogs, the boss thinks it's so I can stay ahead of the wave. The real reason is it gives me a chuckle every day when they try to solve a problem that they themselves inflicted by using a precompiler/framework that wasn't really needed in the first place. A

Re: [OT] node.js and express

On Tue, Nov 22, 2016 at 9:43 AM, David Connors wrote: > 80% of the cost of an application starts after you finish dev and a well > written modern, responsive web app costs very little to maintain (and works > on all the things both network and device). > > Not in my

Re: [OT] node.js and express

On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 at 07:33 Greg Low (罗格雷格博士) wrote: There is no doubt that a full stack angular/rest/json is more expensive to build than WinForms (or MS Access). In any case where the app is widely used by a large number of users I think the cost is justified. We started

Re: [OT] node.js and express

> > Totally agree Greg. About 80% of what we are currently building could be > done in 1/10 of the time using winforms or mvc. > So there are lots of crazy people in here ... Fabulous! I can also write Winforms or WPF apps in 1/10 (or far less) the time of equivalent JS code. I have also had

Re: [OT] node.js and express

om [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ > ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price > *Sent:* Monday, 21 November 2016 6:59 PM > *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> > *Subject:* Re: [OT] node.js and express > > > > Goodness, you are not alone. > > I'm more surprised that yo

Re: [OT] node.js and express

> > 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 > fax > > SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com | http://greglow.me > > > > *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-bounces@ozdot > net.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price &g

RE: [OT] node.js and express

ttp://www.sqldownunder.com/> | http://greglow.me<http://greglow.me/> From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Monday, 21 November 2016 6:59 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and expre

Re: [OT] node.js and express

Bec C <bec.usern...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, 21 November 2016 4:06 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express On Monday, 21 November 2016, Stephen Price <step...@lythixdesigns.com<mailto:step...@lythixdesigns.com>> wrote: Goodness, you are not alone. I'm more surprised

Re: [OT] node.js and express

Don't waste your time with nodejs, it's an unmitigated nightmare. Someone will mention portability somewhere in the conversation and then you know how high the BS is. People hate microsoft, and especially .net because they have been around for longer than they can remember, it will pass

Re: [OT] node.js and express

t; <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');> < > ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');>> on > behalf of Greg Keogh <gfke...@gmail.com > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gfke...@gmail.co

Re: [OT] node.js and express

...@ozdotnet.com <ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> on behalf of Greg Keogh <gfke...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, 21 November 2016 2:48:54 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] node.js and express You're not alone Greg. It's like going back to spaghetti but everyone around me doesn't agree. Thanks hea

Re: [OT] node.js and express

You're not alone Greg. It's like going back to spaghetti but everyone around me doesn't agree. Hey just a few years ago I could create a a whole web app in 10 minutes but now I have to go and get tens of packages in the dependency chain and glue them together and become a plumber to make it all

Re: [OT] node.js and express

I think they use "Javascript" with cookies to serve you ads on teh internets. On Mon, 21 Nov 2016 at 11:01 Stephen Price wrote: > What are you doing?! JavaScript hasn't passed the "Tested by Greg Keogh" > certification. You shouldn't be in there touching that stuff! >

Re: [OT] node.js and express

What are you doing?! JavaScript hasn't passed the "Tested by Greg Keogh" certification. You shouldn't be in there touching that stuff! You've only yourself to blame. Don't poke the angry bear. On 21 Nov. 2016 6:01 am, Greg Keogh wrote: Folks, although I've been insulting

Re: [OT] node.js and express

If you are doing a Javascript centric project (Node, Angular) you will be better suited using Visual Studio Code. Craig On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Greg Keogh wrote: > Folks, although I've been insulting JavaScript for years, I have always > liked scripting. I decided