Fw: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths

[Helen and Graham]

Title: Midwifery Strengths



Hi Brenda
 
Don't know if this made it on to the list - it 
didn't show up my end! Apologies if it is a double up. 
Also, thanks to the other responses I received 
on the subject.  It is really interesting reading about the models of care 
available at the moment and clearly there isn't a one size fits all.  

 
Helen 
 
- Original Message - 
From: Helen 
and Graham 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths

Not exactly Brenda.  The idea of 
antenatal, birth and postnatal care all by the one midwife (in a 
hospital setting) rather than a team approach which exists in a few places as 
mentioned. 
 
Helen
 
 
 
From: brendamanning 

  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 12:08 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
  Strengths
  
  Rosebud offers 
  full Midwifery Antenatal care with known midwife but no MW 
  specifically on-call for the birth.
  Is that what you mean 
  ?
  With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Helen and Graham 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:18 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
Strengths

Just wondering if there are any 
midwifery models within a hospital setting in Australia offering 1-2-1 
care, apart from "team midwifery" models where there may be a 
primary midwife but a team approach to after hours on-call.  
 
 
Helen

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Justine Caines 
  To: OzMid List 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:30 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
  Strengths
  Dear ReneeI will give a strength from the 
  consumer perspective!The power of the relationship between a woman 
  and a midwife.  When it works there is nothing a woman cannot do. The 
  impact of that trust and that belief in ‘being with woman’ has the 
  capacity to transform lives.Read Andrew Bissits’ afterward in 
  “Having a Great Birth in Australia”  He comments on the trust and the 
  relationship women have with midwives providing 1-2-1 care. 
   Something the vast majority of other carers (and midwives in 
  fragmented models) cannot achieve.Gee I wish I was writing this 
  essay (shame I don’t want to be a MW!)  I would approach the core of 
  strength from the perspective of when midwives actually do as the word 
  means be ‘with woman’So to be with her one should know her, and 
  put her as central to the process.  To do this she comes first and 
  Hospital protocols after and Dr’s timeframes after etc.  I guess the 
  real strength is when practice is optimal.Kind 
  regardsJustine CainesHi all.I am a 1st 
  year B.Mid student writing the obligatory essay on Midwifery in 
  Australia. No easy feat really and I need to outline some strengths 
  and weaknesses. Well there is plenty out there about what is wrong 
  with Midwifery Services and what the threats are (New Idea anyone?) 
   but not a lot talking about what is right with it, besides the 
  inherent fact that it works!! So I thought I'd do a little bit of a 
  survey and ask you all what you think are the strengths. What do you 
  all see as being great about being a Midwife in Australia?? Your 
  feedback would be most appreciated.Renee 
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[ozmidwifery] obstetician recommendations needed

[gypsymidwife]

Dear Listers
Just need a little help choosing an obstetician. 
And no, I do not actually want one one but let me explain a little of my 
story.
 I'm  a 41 year old, who has 
had PCOS for 15+ years, along with its associated impaired glucose 
tolerance, hyperinsulinaemia, obesity, long anovulutory cycles etc 
etc.
 My husband , it was discovered when we looked 
into IVF, has abnormal sperm morphology.
 We decided against IVF, and so you can 
imagine the complete surprise to discover that we are 7 weeks pregnant !!! 

Still not sure how it happened when all medical 
advice was our only chance was IVF !!
 But needless to say, we are very happy to 
have a chance to be parents.
 So, my dilema is, my very supportive 
GP,advises obstetric care from 28 weeks, earlier if I "develop gestational 
diabetes".
We live in a small mining town in central Qld, so 
travel for birth is inevitable and we don't really mind where but I'm not ready 
to be categorised as geriatric primip and therefore deemed an automatic 
"elective" caesar by  an obstetician who does not believe, as we do, that I 
can birth as nature intended, all things going well.
I've heard good things about Selangor, but we'd 
love to hear from any and all who can offer any advice.
Thanks to All
Catherine and Rob Pearson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths

[Lisa Barrett]

hi Belinda,

I have personal experience with this recently, and I think I'll mail you off 
line about it.
I didn't write this just under an impression and maybe it was just something 
that went haywire as a one off.




The hours are extremely flexible, the reason mostly for the 12 hour in 
hospital will be due to the complicated women they now get as it is an all 
risk model normal laboring women are seen at home or keep in contact with 
her midwife until they are established and come into hospital then, so 12 
hours later if they are still going and all is well (or not) t he midwife 
may well stay on (I recently did 15hours) it depends on how she is feeling 
what is happening what her day has been like etc.



The complexity is in being an all risk model. It is not perfect but keep 
in mind the literature does show that it is continuity of care rather that 
carer that results in increased satisfaction etcetera. It is also a model 
that is working through many teething problems, staff turnovers, 
personality, experience and practice differences (the groups don't choose 
who they work or partner with, which has been shown to be a key factor in 
successful group practice models) and I am not saying that is specifically 
a problem here but does add to the complexity of working in this type of 
service.


I absolutely agree that continuity of care has increased satisfaction, but 
you have to be able to promise this absolutely and not be let down at the 
end.  And as we both know experience and phylosophy can seriously change the 
group dynamic.



There is still a lot of work to be done in getting the support and 
collaborative working relationships, respect etc across the board that 
would increase the effectiveness and decrease fragmentation and make the 
workload more manageable for the midwives...


I also agree with this but part of it has to be midwives dedication to the 
work they take on and if they want to provide that continuity then they 
should be willing to put themselves wholeheartedly into it.  working 1 or 2 
days a week must make this pretty difficult.  I certainly couldn't manage my 
case load only working 2 days a week and don't cry off my women when I get 
tired.


Thanks Belinda this is the most stimulating conversation for ages, 
especially since the other mails I've made recently on other subjects don't 
seem to have made it onto the list
Lisa 



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Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)

[diane]

 but the women are free to say 
what they want and demand complete informed consent, and we can help them 
navigate that rocky terrain.
 
 
Absolutely, the point I tried to make at our 
meeting at work last week, but the powers to be and some colleagues, think 
that women who don't ask or demand info, should only be given the standard spiel 
to gain 'informed' consent, eg for Vit K. I try to expand on anything and 
enlighten them to the whole spectrum of choice. I consider myself to be advocate 
for all women within my care even if it is only one antenatal visit or a phone 
enquiry. When being advocate for those who do demand, 
who almost always are well informed, the establishment seem to think that is OK, 
but talk about the same stuff to all women, especially those who are basically 
un -knowledgeable about anything related to their bodies and babies, then I am 
just being radical. I feel these are the women who benefit from  our 
advocacy the most. Its a frustrating situation, to be criticised for empowering 
women to make these decisions about themselves. I find it less rewarding 
advocating for those who are already empowered to express their 
wishes.
 
Di

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  suzi and 
  brett 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 3:55 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 
  8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)
  
  I love that you use the word 
  mysogony Justine, and hi and thankyou to you Penny 
  too.
   
  I was talking to a fellow midwife at my hosp 
  about it the other day. Sometimes we wanted to give the benefit of the 
  doubt...at worst that the actions of some Drs was paternalistic - 
   wanting to help the poor ladies from their suffering (while of 
  course making life litigiously safer for themselves and getting paid 
  more). 
   
  Then i also considered it was just ignorance on 
  the part of some doctors, unware of the amazing beuaty and awesome transedence 
  of anything worldly in natural birth and the power that this gives 
  women. They rarely get to see beautiful birth (which is why i love 
  working with student doctors  in birth and getting in their ears). Maybe 
  they don't understand how good it can be for women, is it too 
  spiritual, too unscientific for them to get their head around?
   
  But I am more and more convinced that there is 
  some phsycological women hate going on as well. And wanting to claim birth 
  into the male relm.  Taking away this amazing opportunity for 
  empowerment. BIRTH ENVY?    Or thinking that most women are too 
  weak to be able to birth without intervention. Or too stupid to 
  understand the details so he'll make the desicion for them. Or too smarty 
  pants and asking too many questions and taking up too much time so needs 
  to be put into place with some condeseding remark - if that doesnt stop her 
  she's too dangerous and needs to be told to go elsewhere.
   
  We spoke about a doctor with a very high 
  c/section rate. If according to him you are too short, too old , too 
  Asian  etc- you are convinced through the course of antenatal "care" that 
  you can't possibly vaginally birth and an "elective" ("elective" for whom?) 
  c/s is booked on a day suitable to him. By the time we are meeting the women - 
  for shave and catheter they are absolutly convinced they are doing the 
  right thing. Which puts us in a really difficult possition. 1/2 an hour before 
  surgery is not a great time to talk to women about their alternative 
  options. One woman - a 40 yr old Philipino primip was told her baby 
  was breech and needed to have a c/s - but it wasn't breech, and the Dr knew 
  it. But she was so sold on the idea that she couldnt birth vaginally that she 
  didnt really mind about where the baby was lying. THIS WAS NOT HIS CHOICE 
  TO MAKE. 
   
  We need to keep working on UNIVERSAL (mainstream, 
  free, accessable) opportunities for women to find information and care 
  and reduce the fear. In that town right now the alternative voices women 
  get to hear are only soft squeeks amongst the bellow of the monolith. 
  
   
  Maybe we are scared sometimes to speak up in our 
  workplace if we want to keep our job and dont want to rock the boat, but 
  the women are free to say what they want and demand complete informed 
  consent, and we can help them navigate that rocky terrain. And isn't it great 
  when you get to work with a women who is making those demands, and get to 
  advocate for them - its very safe territory because we are doing what our 
  midwifery competancies demand.  
   
  Love Suzi
   
   
   

Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths

[Belinda Maier]

That is not quite true Lisa, they never get labour ward staff, unless 
they transfer to HDU where the midwife would still be actively involved 
in the womans care. if the midwives are off or busy they get the backup 
midwife they should have met or someone else from the group or when 
extraordinarily busy someone from the other groups. Over 75 % of women 
birth with their primary midwife but the Northern does better with a 95% 
rate of primary carer at the birth.


The hours are extremely flexible, the reason mostly for the 12 hour in 
hospital will be due to the complicated women they now get as it is an 
all risk model normal laboring women are seen at home or keep in contact 
with her midwife until they are established and come into hospital then, 
so 12 hours later if they are still going and all is well (or not) t he 
midwife may well stay on (I recently did 15hours) it depends on how she 
is feeling what is happening what her day has been like etc.


While the groups work differently i think you have the wrong idea, it is 
aimed at continuity of care.


The complexity is in being an all risk model. It is not perfect but keep 
in mind the literature does show that it is continuity of care rather 
that carer that results in increased satisfaction etcetera. It is also a 
model that is working through many teething problems, staff turnovers, 
personality, experience and practice differences (the groups don't 
choose who they work or partner with, which has been shown to be a key 
factor in successful group practice models) and I am not saying that is 
specifically a problem here but does add to the complexity of working in 
this type of service.


There is still a lot of work to be done in getting the support and 
collaborative working relationships, respect etc across the board that 
would increase the effectiveness and decrease fragmentation and make the 
workload more manageable for the midwives...

Belinda


Lisa Barrett wrote:
The case load at the women's and children's hosp in Adelaide may only 
have one midwife and a backup, however if either or both are a day off 
or on holiday you just get the labour ward staff.  Also they are 
limited to working 12 hours at a time so you could still get change 
over of staff etc etc.  This is not continuity of care this is more a 
sort of team approach. Obviously better than fragmented care but 
hardly perfect.
 
Lisa


- Original Message -
*From:* suzi and brett 
*To:* ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au

*Sent:* Thursday, June 01, 2006 8:49 AM
*Subject:* Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths

You could look at the case load practice at Women's and Children's
hosp in Adelaide , where a primary midwife is allocated and a
small group of backup midwives. Also Northern Womens Community Mid
Program in Elizabeth Adelaide where a primary and a back up
midwife is allocated to each woman. They have their primary or
secod midwife for about 95% of births (although the organisation
is not hsp based, most of the women birth at Lyell McEwin Hsp
where the midwives have practising rights). There are the
community midwives in Perth, and the Mid programs in Belmont &
Ryde & St George Hsp NSW. 

 




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths

[Lisa Barrett]

Title: Midwifery Strengths



The case load at the women's and children's hosp in 
Adelaide may only have one midwife and a backup, however if either or both are a 
day off or on holiday you just get the labour ward staff.  Also they are 
limited to working 12 hours at a time so you could still get change over of 
staff etc etc.  This is not continuity of care this is more a sort of team 
approach. Obviously better than fragmented care but hardly perfect.
 
Lisa

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  suzi and 
  brett 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 8:49 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
  Strengths
  
  You could look at the case load practice at 
  Women's and Children's hosp in Adelaide , where a primary midwife is allocated 
  and a small group of backup midwives. Also Northern Womens Community Mid 
  Program in Elizabeth Adelaide where a primary and a back up midwife is 
  allocated to each woman. They have their primary or secod 
  midwife for about 95% of births (although the organisation is not hsp 
  based, most of the women birth at Lyell McEwin Hsp where the midwives have 
  practising rights). There are the community midwives in Perth, and the Mid 
  programs in Belmont & Ryde & St George Hsp NSW.  
  
 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Every choice is equal..but some are more equal than others

[Janet Fraser]

It just goes to show who's setting the agenda for the discourse around birth 
and how it's about the control of women's bodies not safety at all! Birth is 
a feminist issue!!!

J


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Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths

[brendamanning]

Title: Midwifery Strengths



Rosebud offers 
full Midwifery Antenatal care with known midwife but no MW 
specifically on-call for the birth.
Is that what you mean 
?
With kind regardsBrenda Manning www.themidwife.com.au

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Helen and Graham 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:18 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
  Strengths
  
  Just wondering if there are any 
  midwifery models within a hospital setting in Australia offering 1-2-1 
  care, apart from "team midwifery" models where there may be a 
  primary midwife but a team approach to after hours on-call.  
   
   
  Helen
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Justine Caines 
To: OzMid List 
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:30 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
Strengths
Dear ReneeI will give a strength from the 
consumer perspective!The power of the relationship between a woman 
and a midwife.  When it works there is nothing a woman cannot do. The 
impact of that trust and that belief in ‘being with woman’ has the capacity 
to transform lives.Read Andrew Bissits’ afterward in “Having a Great 
Birth in Australia”  He comments on the trust and the relationship 
women have with midwives providing 1-2-1 care.  Something the vast 
majority of other carers (and midwives in fragmented models) cannot 
achieve.Gee I wish I was writing this essay (shame I don’t want to 
be a MW!)  I would approach the core of strength from the perspective 
of when midwives actually do as the word means be ‘with woman’So to 
be with her one should know her, and put her as central to the process. 
 To do this she comes first and Hospital protocols after and Dr’s 
timeframes after etc.  I guess the real strength is when practice is 
optimal.Kind regardsJustine CainesHi 
all.I am a 1st year B.Mid student writing the obligatory essay on 
Midwifery in Australia. No easy feat really and I need to outline some 
strengths and weaknesses. Well there is plenty out there about what is 
wrong with Midwifery Services and what the threats are (New Idea 
anyone?)  but not a lot talking about what is right with it, 
besides the inherent fact that it works!! So I thought I'd do a little 
bit of a survey and ask you all what you think are the strengths. What 
do you all see as being great about being a Midwife in Australia?? Your 
feedback would be most appreciated.Renee 
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RE: [ozmidwifery] students & learning

[Kate and/or Nick]

>>For fyi, student midwives here in SA are *forbidden* to seek experience 
of any kind with any independently practicing midwife, on threat of a 
fail grade for the clinical topic &/or expulsion from the course. 


While this is the case at one uni, it does not appear to be at the other
uni. We have a lay midwife doing the Bmid who will be doing her practicum
with an independent midwife. We believe we are able to participate in
homebirths, and I am certainly hoping to do just that.

Kate



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Re: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries

[diane]

I know of a couple of difficult ventouse deliveries that may have been 
better abandoned.. one baby was stillborn, but of course it was never 
attributed to the ventouse!!

Di


- Original Message - 
From: "Susan Cudlipp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries


I too have noticed a decline in the use of forceps. Time was that Kiellands 
were fairly common, and in experienced hands, quite effective for a POP. 
EXPERIENCED hands being the operative (no pun intended) word.  One Ob 
recently said that these days he would opt for a c/s rather than a 
'difficult' forceps and I can see the sense in that - having witnessed some 
truly horrific forceps births in the past, feet bracing the foot of the bed 
when extreme force was used, and one where the mum was taken to theatre 
with a forceps blade still stuck alongside the baby's head resulting in 
long term damage for mum and a baby that only lived for 48 hours. Extreme 
force should not be used - if the bub will not move then the attempt should 
be abandoned. However, one off shoot of the current rise in c/s is that drs 
are not experienced in instrumental deliveries, and even those that are 
tend not to go for it if there is any doubt.  Depends on the doctor and 
his/her level of comfort I think - the next generation will have little 
'comfort' in use of forceps at all methinks!
Wrigleys and ventouse really only have a place in births where the bub is 
close to the door but either needs out quickly or mum is exhausted, one of 
our obs uses wrigleys very effectively in these situations, does not put 
mum in stirrups and is very gentle.  Have also seen times when doctor will 
bring bub to crowning and then remove instruments letting mum finish the 
birth herself, which in the right circumstances can be very empowering.
The birth Mary spoke of sounds like it was perhaps an injudicious use of 
ventouse given the circumstances?? Do you think this mum and baby might 
have been less damaged given a C/S?   ( Hindsight being such a wonderful 
thing )

Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do 
nothing"

Edmund Burke
- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 5:30 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries



I recently was present where a ventouse was used to turn a baby from POP,
asynclitic position.  It was very difficult, with extreme force and a 
very
"generous" episiotomy. The baby was extremely shocked and had a head like 
a
bowl of port wine jelly.  It stayed 6 days under the Bili lights with 
high

levels of jaundice.I believe that this was the ideal situation to use a
Keillands for rotation and descent.  Wriggley's was usually used to "lift
out" the baby. This ventouse delivery has led to anguish and exhaustion 
for
the mother, breast feeding interruption and confusion, formula feeding 
and a
lack of connectedness with the baby.  I haven't seen anyone use a 
Keillands

or wriggly's for a long time. M
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths

[diane]

Title: Midwifery Strengths



Belmont Birthing Service I believe is totally 1-2-1 
and birth centre at John Hunter I think (but doesnt include postnatal care). 
Central Coast is moving towards 1-2-1 soon I hope, but unfortunately not before 
I depart to my new adventure in North Queensland Im hoping Mackay Birth 
Centre is!!!
Cheers
Diane

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Helen and Graham 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:18 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
  Strengths
  
  Just wondering if there are any 
  midwifery models within a hospital setting in Australia offering 1-2-1 
  care, apart from "team midwifery" models where there may be a 
  primary midwife but a team approach to after hours on-call.  
   
   
  Helen
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Justine Caines 
To: OzMid List 
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:30 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
Strengths
Dear ReneeI will give a strength from the 
consumer perspective!The power of the relationship between a woman 
and a midwife.  When it works there is nothing a woman cannot do. The 
impact of that trust and that belief in ‘being with woman’ has the capacity 
to transform lives.Read Andrew Bissits’ afterward in “Having a Great 
Birth in Australia”  He comments on the trust and the relationship 
women have with midwives providing 1-2-1 care.  Something the vast 
majority of other carers (and midwives in fragmented models) cannot 
achieve.Gee I wish I was writing this essay (shame I don’t want to 
be a MW!)  I would approach the core of strength from the perspective 
of when midwives actually do as the word means be ‘with woman’So to 
be with her one should know her, and put her as central to the process. 
 To do this she comes first and Hospital protocols after and Dr’s 
timeframes after etc.  I guess the real strength is when practice is 
optimal.Kind regardsJustine CainesHi 
all.I am a 1st year B.Mid student writing the obligatory essay on 
Midwifery in Australia. No easy feat really and I need to outline some 
strengths and weaknesses. Well there is plenty out there about what is 
wrong with Midwifery Services and what the threats are (New Idea 
anyone?)  but not a lot talking about what is right with it, 
besides the inherent fact that it works!! So I thought I'd do a little 
bit of a survey and ask you all what you think are the strengths. What 
do you all see as being great about being a Midwife in Australia?? Your 
feedback would be most appreciated.Renee 
__ NOD32 1.1518 (20060503) Information 
__This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

[ozmidwifery] Extension of abstracts poster presentation HBA conf

[Sally-Anne Brown]

Dear all - due to a cple of requests to extend the 
call for abstracts we have rescheduled the close of submissions to Friday June 
9, 2006. There will be a prize awarded to the most innovative poster 
presented.
 
 
 
 
Call for Abstracts  deadline extended to June 9, 2006: 

 
Poster Presentations 24th 
Homebirth Australia Conference 
 
 
Background:
Homebirth Australia is holding the 24th HBA 
national conference July 1-2, 2006 in Geelong,Victoria.  The 
conference is titled "Bringing birth back 
Home". Central to the theme is that 
care
from a known midwife is a safe model of care and 
represents the gold standard for care given 
to women through pregnancy,birth and postnatally. 
Many women in regional and rural areas of Australiaare unable to access this 
model of care.  International and Australian speakers will share their 
ideas and plans to enable birth to be reclaimed by women and "bought home" into 
their communities to improve the outcomes forAustralian women and their 
families.Submissions of abstracts are warmly welcomed by 
conference delegates of current research or midwifery projects to be 
displayed at the 24th Homebirth Australia 
conference.  The criteria for submissions is 
as follows:
 
1) Abstracts of no more than 200 
words are to be sent to the 24th Homebirth Australia Conference poster 
presentation selection committee by email or hard copy outlining the name of the 
project, institution, authors and content of poster presentation by 
COB June 9 2006. Please include your 
name, address, phone and email details.
 
2) Priority will be given to current 
projects relevant to the conference theme of "bringing birth back home" to local 
communities for Indigenous and non-Indigenous women across remote and 
rural Australia.  Relevant research projects that identify or aim 
to improve access to homebirth, one-to-one midwifery care or relevant 
maternity issues will also be considered.
3) Priority will be given to researchers who are 
also registered as a delegate at the conference.
 
All submissions will be considered 
and we aim to include as many as possible.  All applicants will be 
notified of the outcome of their submissions by June 12, 2006. Please 
note the criteria for the size of the final poster presentation is strictly no bigger than  50 cms width x 
75 cm length (poster size).
 
The poster 
presentations will provide an opportunity for information exchange, 
exposure for the researcher/project and generates the theme of 
'continuation' and 'reclamation'. There will be an opportunity for 
successful applicants to speak 
with other delegates about their poster presentation during all meal 
breaks. In addition a prize will be given for the best poster presentation 
as determined by conference delegates. Submission of 
abstracts are as follows please:
 
1) 
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] with 
'Submission of poster abstract for 24th HBA Conference' written in the subject 
heading of the email please.
 
or
2) Mail postmarked 
on or before June 9 2006 to the 
following address: 
24th Homebirth Australia Conference poster presentation selection 
committee
c/- Penny 
Lalor,
16 Lawton 
Avenue
Geelong West VIC 
3218
For more information 
please contact Penny Lalor: (03) 52218375 or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Information about conference registration can 
be found athttp://www.homebirthaustralia.org/conference.html  

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths

[suzi and brett]

Title: Midwifery Strengths



You could look at the case load practice at Women's 
and Children's hosp in Adelaide , where a primary midwife is allocated and a 
small group of backup midwives. Also Northern Womens Community Mid Program in 
Elizabeth Adelaide where a primary and a back up midwife is allocated to each 
woman. They have their primary or secod midwife for about 95% of 
births (although the organisation is not hsp based, most of the women birth at 
Lyell McEwin Hsp where the midwives have practising rights). There are the 
community midwives in Perth, and the Mid programs in Belmont & Ryde & St 
George Hsp NSW.  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Helen and Graham 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:18 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
  Strengths
  
  Just wondering if there are any 
  midwifery models within a hospital setting in Australia offering 1-2-1 
  care, apart from "team midwifery" models where there may be a 
  primary midwife but a team approach to after hours on-call.  
   
   
  Helen
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Justine Caines 
To: OzMid List 
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:30 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
Strengths
Dear ReneeI will give a strength from the 
consumer perspective!The power of the relationship between a woman 
and a midwife.  When it works there is nothing a woman cannot do. The 
impact of that trust and that belief in ‘being with woman’ has the capacity 
to transform lives.Read Andrew Bissits’ afterward in “Having a Great 
Birth in Australia”  He comments on the trust and the relationship 
women have with midwives providing 1-2-1 care.  Something the vast 
majority of other carers (and midwives in fragmented models) cannot 
achieve.Gee I wish I was writing this essay (shame I don’t want to 
be a MW!)  I would approach the core of strength from the perspective 
of when midwives actually do as the word means be ‘with woman’So to 
be with her one should know her, and put her as central to the process. 
 To do this she comes first and Hospital protocols after and Dr’s 
timeframes after etc.  I guess the real strength is when practice is 
optimal.Kind regardsJustine CainesHi 
all.I am a 1st year B.Mid student writing the obligatory essay on 
Midwifery in Australia. No easy feat really and I need to outline some 
strengths and weaknesses. Well there is plenty out there about what is 
wrong with Midwifery Services and what the threats are (New Idea 
anyone?)  but not a lot talking about what is right with it, 
besides the inherent fact that it works!! So I thought I'd do a little 
bit of a survey and ask you all what you think are the strengths. What 
do you all see as being great about being a Midwife in Australia?? Your 
feedback would be most appreciated.Renee 
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths

[Samantha Saye]

 There is the new publicly funded homebirth program at St. George Hospital.  It started about 6 months ago, and the midwives are on call 24 hours a day for their caseload of women.  There are 4 midwives working in the model (including Nicky Leap) working in teams of 2.
 
I'm hoping on getting some experience with this model in my 3rd year of B.Mid training.
 
Sam
 
---Original Message---
 

From: Helen and Graham
Date: 05/31/06 22:46:17
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths
 
Just wondering if there are any midwifery models within a hospital setting in Australia offering 1-2-1 care, apart from "team midwifery" models where there may be a primary midwife but a team approach to after hours on-call.   
 
Helen

- Original Message - 
From: Justine Caines 
To: OzMid List 
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:30 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths
Dear ReneeI will give a strength from the consumer perspective!The power of the relationship between a woman and a midwife.  When it works there is nothing a woman cannot do. The impact of that trust and that belief in ‘being with woman’ has the capacity to transform lives.Read Andrew Bissits’ afterward in “Having a Great Birth in Australia”  He comments on the trust and the relationship women have with midwives providing 1-2-1 care.  Something the vast majority of other carers (and midwives in fragmented models) cannot achieve.Gee I wish I was writing this essay (shame I don’t want to be a MW!)  I would approach the core of strength from the perspective of when midwives actually do as the word means be ‘with woman’So to be with her one should know her, and put her as central to the process.  To do this she comes first and Hospital protocols after and Dr’s timeframes after etc.  I guess the real strength is when practice is optimal.Kind regardsJustine CainesHi all.I am a 1st year B.Mid student writing the obligatory essay on Midwifery in Australia. No easy feat really and I need to outline some strengths and weaknesses. Well there is plenty out there about what is wrong with Midwifery Services and what the threats are (New Idea anyone?)  but not a lot talking about what is right with it, besides the inherent fact that it works!! So I thought I'd do a little bit of a survey and ask you all what you think are the strengths. What do you all see as being great about being a Midwife in Australia?? Your feedback would be most appreciated.Renee __ NOD32 1.1518 (20060503) Information __This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com
 

[ozmidwifery] article FYI

[leanne wynne]

VBAC Declines but Outcomes Do Not Improve

By Judith Groch, MedPage Today Staff Writer
Reviewed by Zalman S. Agus, MD; Emeritus Professor at the University of 
Pennsylvania School of Medicine.

May 30, 2006

Review
FRESNO, Calif., May 30 ¡ª Neonatal and maternal mortality rates did not 
improve despite an increase in repeat cesarean deliveries, apparently 
engendered by revised guidelines from the American College of Obstetricians 
and Gynecologists, researchers here reported.


In 1999, responding to safety and medicolegal considerations, the ACOG 
adopted more restrictive guidelines for vaginal birth after cesarean 
delivery (VBAC). As a result, attempted VBAC rates declined from 24% to 
13.5% in 2002 (P <.001), according to a report in the May/June Annals of 
Family Medicine.


The revised guidelines stated that "because uterine rupture may be 
catastrophic, VBAC should be attempted in institutions equipped to respond 
to emergencies with physicians immediately available to provide emergency 
care."


The VBAC decline, however, seems to have continued a trend that began in 
1997 and mirrored national trends, perhaps "reflecting unease among 
obstetrician and foreshadowing the 1999 revisions, wrote John Zweifler, 
M.D., and colleagues at the University of California San Francisco.


Using the California Birth Statistical Master files from 1996 through 2002, 
the researchers identified 386,232 California residents who had previously 
had a cesarean delivery and had a singleton birth planned in a California 
hospital.


The findings were:

Neonatal mortality rates per 1,000 live births for attempted VBAC deliveries 
were no different than repeat cesarean delivery rates among neonates 
weighing ¡Ý 1,500 g in study period, 1996 to 1999 or 2000 to 2002.


Findings for the two procedures among infants of very low birth weight 
differed. Neonatal mortality rates for attempted VBAC deliveries were higher 
than those for repeat cesarean deliveries among neonates weighing <1,500 g 
in the same periods (attempted VBAC: 1996-1999, 253.2, 95% CI 197.7-308.6; 
2000-2002, 336.8, CI, 254.3-419.4; repeat cesarean delivery: 1996-1999, 
59.1, CI, 48.3-69.9; 2000-2002, 60.5, CI, 48.4-72.5).


Among all births, multiple logistic regression analysis showed the strongest 
predictor of neonatal death to be very low birth weight.


Maternal death rates per 100,000 live births for attempted VBAC deliveries 
were similar for both periods (1996-1999, 2.0; CI, 0.1-11.0; 2000-2002, 8.5; 
CI, 1.0-30.6).


Overall, recorded pregnancy complications were higher in women who attempted 
VBAC than in the cesarean groups in both pre- and post- revision periods, 
the researchers said. The rate of attempted VBAC was positively associated 
with educational level.


Among the study's limitations, the researchers pointed out that a much 
larger sample would be needed to have the power to detect differences in 
maternal mortality. The proportion of older women and black women who 
attempted VBAC delivery did not decrease after the 1999 revision to the same 
extent that it did for younger women or those from other racial and ethnic 
groups, a finding consistent with national trends, the researchers said.


The analysis of birth certificate information did not permit the researchers 
to assess important neonatal or maternal comorbidities. Other coding 
problems and possible misclassifications may also have occurred, they said.


Finally, the researchers wrote, it may be difficult to generalize these 
findings to populations outside California, because California births may 
occur in settings more or less ethnically diverse or rural compared with 
other states. The successful VBAC rate for California women was 8.0% 
compared with the national rate of 12.6%, the researchers pointed out.


During the past decade the pendulum in the U.S. has swung dramatically away 
from VBAC delivery toward repeat cesarean section, and the 1999 ACOG 
revision may have accelerated this trend, Dr. Zweifler said. Nevertheless, 
he added, in 2002 California births constituted 13.1% of U.S. deliveries.


"We recommend that a balanced presentation of risks and the encouraging 
outcomes found in this analysis be included in discussions with pregnant 
women who have had a previous cesarean section," Dr. Zweifler's team 
advised.


An evidence-based approach to VBAC delivery, he said, may lead to further 
refinements in these guidelines.


Primary source: Annals of Family Medicine
Source reference:
John Zweifler, et al "Vaginal Birth After Cesarean in California: Before and 
After a Change in Guidelines," Annals of Family Medicine 2006;4:228-234.



Leanne Wynne
Midwife in charge of "Women's Business"
Mildura Aboriginal Health Service  Mob 0418 371862


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Re: [ozmidwifery] students & learning

[Belinda Maier]

Jennifairy wrote:

Justine Caines wrote:


Dear Liz

So nice to hear your honesty.

But what are you learning? None of this is about what women can do or
supporting them to achieve the best outcome, it is about protecting a 
system

and it's regular inhabitants.  It is production-line birth.

Why not ask an independent midwife if you could get to know a woman and
provide some support and see what birth can be?

I really despair that newer midwives are forced into such a system (even
most Bmidders!).  It must be really hard to keep the faith or believe in
fact that it can be different.

 


For fyi, student midwives here in SA are *forbidden* to seek 
experience of any kind with any independently practicing midwife, on 
threat of a fail grade for the clinical topic &/or expulsion from the 
course. The uni (s) then have the cheek to say things like this on 
their website advertising the course:


"Midwifery programs at *** reflect the philosophy of 'women-centred' 
midwifery practice. Midwives are therefore educated to provide safe, 
effective care that recognises the needs of individual women in 
relation to choice, control and continuity of care. *** has a strong 
commitment to excellence in midwifery education, practice and 
research. The School of Nursing and Midwifery has the expertise to 
support this commitment and has been in the forefront of midwifery 
innovation and development in Australia.
The aim is to prepare midwives to practise as competent, confident 
practitioners _in all settings_ (my underline) according to the full 
role and sphere of practice described in the international Definition 
of a Midwife (World Health Organisation, 1992)."


After lobbying for years to get the BMid off the ground (& then doing 
it myself), with the intention that 'changing the face of midwifery' 
needed to start at the education level, I'm feeling thoroughly 
disillusioned that significant change will happen *in my lifetime*! 
Midwives here on the list often allude to the glacial (as in very 
slow) rate of change in institutions ie hospitals, well universities 
are institutions too & the changes the PTBs at that level promised are 
still a very long way away. Independent midwives are made to feel that 
we are not 'responsible people', the fact that we are practicing 
without insurance (as if this is a choice!) completely devalues what 
we offer to women, and those students who have done 3 years hard slog 
to become a midwife who can work in *any setting* are denied any 
chance to actually experience one of a very few work options that 
allows midwives to work within the full scope of practice. In short, 
the blurb like the one above to advertise a course of study is an 
outright lie. They are good at 'talking the talk', but they want 
someone else to do the walking for them!


keep in mind that is one unis perspective ...Uni SA students are under 
a different insurance and can go with independent midwives

Belinda
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[ozmidwifery] students & learning

[Jennifairy]

Justine Caines wrote:


Dear Liz

So nice to hear your honesty.

But what are you learning? None of this is about what women can do or
supporting them to achieve the best outcome, it is about protecting a system
and it's regular inhabitants.  It is production-line birth.

Why not ask an independent midwife if you could get to know a woman and
provide some support and see what birth can be?

I really despair that newer midwives are forced into such a system (even
most Bmidders!).  It must be really hard to keep the faith or believe in
fact that it can be different.

 

For fyi, student midwives here in SA are *forbidden* to seek experience 
of any kind with any independently practicing midwife, on threat of a 
fail grade for the clinical topic &/or expulsion from the course. The 
uni (s) then have the cheek to say things like this on their website 
advertising the course:


"Midwifery programs at *** reflect the philosophy of 'women-centred' 
midwifery practice. Midwives are therefore educated to provide safe, 
effective care that recognises the needs of individual women in relation 
to choice, control and continuity of care. *** has a strong commitment 
to excellence in midwifery education, practice and research. The School 
of Nursing and Midwifery has the expertise to support this commitment 
and has been in the forefront of midwifery innovation and development in 
Australia.
The aim is to prepare midwives to practise as competent, confident 
practitioners _in all settings_ (my underline) according to the full 
role and sphere of practice described in the international Definition of 
a Midwife (World Health Organisation, 1992)."


After lobbying for years to get the BMid off the ground (& then doing it 
myself), with the intention that 'changing the face of midwifery' needed 
to start at the education level, I'm feeling thoroughly disillusioned 
that significant change will happen *in my lifetime*! Midwives here on 
the list often allude to the glacial (as in very slow) rate of change in 
institutions ie hospitals, well universities are institutions too & the 
changes the PTBs at that level promised are still a very long way away. 
Independent midwives are made to feel that we are not 'responsible 
people', the fact that we are practicing without insurance (as if this 
is a choice!) completely devalues what we offer to women, and those 
students who have done 3 years hard slog to become a midwife who can 
work in *any setting* are denied any chance to actually experience one 
of a very few work options that allows midwives to work within the full 
scope of practice. In short, the blurb like the one above to advertise a 
course of study is an outright lie. They are good at 'talking the talk', 
but they want someone else to do the walking for them!

--

Jennifairy Gillett RM

Midwife in Private Practice

Women’s Health Teaching Associate

ITShare volunteer – Santos Project Co-ordinator
ITShare SA Inc - http://itshare.org.au/
ITShare SA provides computer systems to individuals & groups, created 
from donated hardware and opensource software


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Re: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries

[Justine Caines]

Dear Liz

So nice to hear your honesty.

But what are you learning? None of this is about what women can do or
supporting them to achieve the best outcome, it is about protecting a system
and it's regular inhabitants.  It is production-line birth.

Why not ask an independent midwife if you could get to know a woman and
provide some support and see what birth can be?

I really despair that newer midwives are forced into such a system (even
most Bmidders!).  It must be really hard to keep the faith or believe in
fact that it can be different.

I guess this is what you get when women share their most intimate moments
with strangers.

Justine Caines

Consumer
Mum to 6 home born beauties
Ruby 6, Clancy 5, Will 3, Tobias 2
And twins Majella and Rosie nearly 6 months


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RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries

[Elizabeth and Mark Bryant]

I did my postgrad training last year and throughout the whole year and up
till now i have only ever seen 1 'trial of forceps' once upstairs prepped
for theatre which ended up proceeding to caesarian anyway. I am at a large
teaching hospital and it is very rare to see them used, vacuums   are
extremely common unfortunately. A lot of our women just seem to give up and
refuse to push during second stage, even without an epidural, i think
sometimes this is exzasperated by many midwives 'encouraging' active
pushing. Even though i have read many books on natural birth and know the
theory behind instinctive birthing it is very hard to get the courage to go
against the flow, especially when you are still learning so much and
everyone thinks their way is the best. Refards, Liz.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mary Murphy
Sent: Wednesday, 31 May 2006 7:31 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries


I recently was present where a ventouse was used to turn a baby from POP,
asynclitic position.  It was very difficult, with extreme force and a very
"generous" episiotomy. The baby was extremely shocked and had a head like a
bowl of port wine jelly.  It stayed 6 days under the Bili lights with high
levels of jaundice.I believe that this was the ideal situation to use a
Keillands for rotation and descent.  Wriggley's was usually used to "lift
out" the baby. This ventouse delivery has led to anguish and exhaustion for
the mother, breast feeding interruption and confusion, formula feeding and a
lack of connectedness with the baby.  I haven't seen anyone use a Keillands
or wriggly's for a long time. M
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries

[Dean & Jo]

Interestingly, 
The cs forum from Sat showed that the rise in cs rate can NOT be
attributed to cs replacing instrumental vaginal births.  The cs rates
increased but the IVD remained the similar in rates.  

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries

[Susan Cudlipp]

I too have noticed a decline in the use of forceps. Time was that Kiellands 
were fairly common, and in experienced hands, quite effective for a POP. 
EXPERIENCED hands being the operative (no pun intended) word.  One Ob 
recently said that these days he would opt for a c/s rather than a 
'difficult' forceps and I can see the sense in that - having witnessed some 
truly horrific forceps births in the past, feet bracing the foot of the bed 
when extreme force was used, and one where the mum was taken to theatre with 
a forceps blade still stuck alongside the baby's head resulting in long term 
damage for mum and a baby that only lived for 48 hours. Extreme force should 
not be used - if the bub will not move then the attempt should be abandoned. 
However, one off shoot of the current rise in c/s is that drs are not 
experienced in instrumental deliveries, and even those that are tend not to 
go for it if there is any doubt.  Depends on the doctor and his/her level of 
comfort I think - the next generation will have little 'comfort' in use of 
forceps at all methinks!
Wrigleys and ventouse really only have a place in births where the bub is 
close to the door but either needs out quickly or mum is exhausted, one of 
our obs uses wrigleys very effectively in these situations, does not put mum 
in stirrups and is very gentle.  Have also seen times when doctor will bring 
bub to crowning and then remove instruments letting mum finish the birth 
herself, which in the right circumstances can be very empowering.
The birth Mary spoke of sounds like it was perhaps an injudicious use of 
ventouse given the circumstances?? Do you think this mum and baby might have 
been less damaged given a C/S?   ( Hindsight being such a wonderful thing )

Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do 
nothing"

Edmund Burke
- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 5:30 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries



I recently was present where a ventouse was used to turn a baby from POP,
asynclitic position.  It was very difficult, with extreme force and a very
"generous" episiotomy. The baby was extremely shocked and had a head like 
a

bowl of port wine jelly.  It stayed 6 days under the Bili lights with high
levels of jaundice.I believe that this was the ideal situation to use a
Keillands for rotation and descent.  Wriggley's was usually used to "lift
out" the baby. This ventouse delivery has led to anguish and exhaustion 
for
the mother, breast feeding interruption and confusion, formula feeding and 
a
lack of connectedness with the baby.  I haven't seen anyone use a 
Keillands

or wriggly's for a long time. M
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery Strengths

[Helen and Graham]

Title: Midwifery Strengths



Just wondering if there are any midwifery 
models within a hospital setting in Australia offering 1-2-1 care, apart 
from "team midwifery" models where there may be a primary midwife 
but a team approach to after hours on-call.   
 
Helen

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Justine Caines 
  To: OzMid List 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 9:30 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery 
  Strengths
  Dear ReneeI will give a strength from the 
  consumer perspective!The power of the relationship between a woman and 
  a midwife.  When it works there is nothing a woman cannot do. The impact 
  of that trust and that belief in ‘being with woman’ has the capacity to 
  transform lives.Read Andrew Bissits’ afterward in “Having a Great 
  Birth in Australia”  He comments on the trust and the relationship women 
  have with midwives providing 1-2-1 care.  Something the vast majority of 
  other carers (and midwives in fragmented models) cannot achieve.Gee I 
  wish I was writing this essay (shame I don’t want to be a MW!)  I would 
  approach the core of strength from the perspective of when midwives actually 
  do as the word means be ‘with woman’So to be with her one should know 
  her, and put her as central to the process.  To do this she comes first 
  and Hospital protocols after and Dr’s timeframes after etc.  I guess the 
  real strength is when practice is optimal.Kind regardsJustine 
  CainesHi all.I am a 1st year B.Mid student writing 
  the obligatory essay on Midwifery in Australia. No easy feat really and I 
  need to outline some strengths and weaknesses. Well there is plenty out 
  there about what is wrong with Midwifery Services and what the threats are 
  (New Idea anyone?)  but not a lot talking about what is right with 
  it, besides the inherent fact that it works!! So I thought I'd do a little 
  bit of a survey and ask you all what you think are the strengths. What do 
  you all see as being great about being a Midwife in Australia?? Your 
  feedback would be most appreciated.Renee 
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  message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.http://www.eset.com

Re: [ozmidwifery] Every choice is equal..but some are more equal than others

[Great Birth]

What a neat assessment Jo! _David Vernon, Editor and WriterHaving a Great Birth in Australia, Men at Birth, With Women - Shiftwork to Caseload and The Hunt for MarasmusGPO Box 2314, Canberra ACT 2601, AustraliaEm: Click here to email meMy other websites:	Beryl's Hansard | A Busy Dad's Guide to Cooking | Kitty & Maus _ On 31/05/2006, at 2:35 PM, Dean & Jo wrote:At the CS forum in Vic on the weekend I discussed how differentlychoice/fears are concerned when it comes to birthing women:A woman can choose to birth cs for no medical indicatorButA woman trying to choose to have a NATURAL vaginal birth is lesssupportedA woman who is terrified of vaginal birth would not be force to birthvaginally ButA woman who is terrified of cs is told not to be so sillyA woman can choose and be fully supported to have a cs because she hadone last timeBut A woman who wants to choose vbac is given the hard time.Basically comes down toA woman can choose an obstetricianBUTA woman can not choose a known midwifeChoice, fear, informed decisionsall in the interpretation!jo-- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe. 

[ozmidwifery] Every choice is equal..but some are more equal than others

[Dean & Jo]

At the CS forum in Vic on the weekend I discussed how differently
choice/fears are concerned when it comes to birthing women:

A woman can choose to birth cs for no medical indicator
But
A woman trying to choose to have a NATURAL vaginal birth is less
supported

A woman who is terrified of vaginal birth would not be force to birth
vaginally 
But
A woman who is terrified of cs is told not to be so silly

A woman can choose and be fully supported to have a cs because she had
one last time
But A woman who wants to choose vbac is given the hard time.

Basically comes down to
A woman can choose an obstetrician
BUT
A woman can not choose a known midwife


Choice, fear, informed decisionsall in the interpretation!

jo

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries

[Mary Murphy]

I recently was present where a ventouse was used to turn a baby from POP,
asynclitic position.  It was very difficult, with extreme force and a very
"generous" episiotomy. The baby was extremely shocked and had a head like a
bowl of port wine jelly.  It stayed 6 days under the Bili lights with high
levels of jaundice.I believe that this was the ideal situation to use a
Keillands for rotation and descent.  Wriggley's was usually used to "lift
out" the baby. This ventouse delivery has led to anguish and exhaustion for
the mother, breast feeding interruption and confusion, formula feeding and a
lack of connectedness with the baby.  I haven't seen anyone use a Keillands
or wriggly's for a long time. M
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries

[Ken Ward]

I remember Kelliands from student days. Applied, turned, off and the woman
then proceeding to a normal birth.  I myself, had a Kelliands with bub no.4.
POP, quick turn and she just about fell out. In the right hands they can be
effective and prevent major surgery. I have see the vacuum used for birthing
a POP.   Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nicole Carver
Sent: Wednesday, 31 May 2006 6:28 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries


Hi Marg,
A lot of women who would birth at my workplace (regional Victoria) in the
past with Keillands are now birthed by caesarean. Usually vacuum will not
do/be used to do what Keillands will do (in the majority of cases, although
I was taught it was possible) ie rotate the head from OP or transverse. I
haven't seen a Keillands for about four years. Not sure if it is due to a
perception that it is safer & fear of litigation if there are birth
injuries, maybe. It isn't due to the doctors not having the skills where I
work, because we haven't had a change of doctors in years (unfortunately!) I
will be very interested to hear the other responses that you get.
Warm wishes,
Nicole.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marg Williams
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:52 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries


I would be interested to know what other midwives experiences are regarding
the use of keillands forceps. I trained in a tertiary hospital in Victoria
almost 20 years ago, and regularly saw keillands forceps used. I have
noticed a decline in their use over this time, and am wondering is this a
current trend in obstetrics generally, or perhaps just a Queensland trend to
use vacuums for assisted deliveries. I can't help wondering if it is a skill
not being passed on to our training registrars as the older obstetricians
retire, and take these skills with them, or maybe vacuum deliveries are the
easiest way out. What do other midwives think?

Marg

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RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)

[Ken Ward]

I can not see how a machine is all that helpful for PIH or APH. Surely one
is monitoring the mum and bub's welfare, listening to the FHR at intervals
appropriate to each situation, watching for abnormal blood loss, mec liquor,
blood pressure, and most importantly listening TO WHAT MUM IS SAYING,and
tuning into your own gut instinct. No machine has reduced the perinatal
morbidity or mortality rate. Machines have increased intervention, caused
needless worry and given false reassurance. We are losing our skills as
humans, delegating to machines. Maureen

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of sharon
Sent: Wednesday, 31 May 2006 11:53 AM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies
(May 24, 2006)


hi i think that machines do have their palce in the birthing process if and
only if the individual woman has a pre exisiting complaint such as PIH or
APH. to moniter the baby is a good thing not to mention the fact that some
of these machines ensure that there is a reduced perinatal mortality. Im all
for machines that keep both the mother and the baby health in check and not
for machines such as the one described which measures cerival dilatation
what rot. what about good old fashioned midwifery skills or better still
listening to what your woman is telling you.
regards sharon
- Original Message -
From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: RE: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May
24, 2006)


>
> Well, how can we know if there is a medical indication unless the machines
> have told us? MM
>
> "so lets keep our interferring hands off until there is a medical
> indication!! Leanne."
>
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RE: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries

[Nicole Carver]

Hi Marg,
A lot of women who would birth at my workplace (regional Victoria) in the
past with Keillands are now birthed by caesarean. Usually vacuum will not
do/be used to do what Keillands will do (in the majority of cases, although
I was taught it was possible) ie rotate the head from OP or transverse. I
haven't seen a Keillands for about four years. Not sure if it is due to a
perception that it is safer & fear of litigation if there are birth
injuries, maybe. It isn't due to the doctors not having the skills where I
work, because we haven't had a change of doctors in years (unfortunately!) I
will be very interested to hear the other responses that you get.
Warm wishes,
Nicole.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marg Williams
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:52 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Keillands Deliveries


I would be interested to know what other midwives experiences are regarding
the use of keillands forceps. I trained in a tertiary hospital in Victoria
almost 20 years ago, and regularly saw keillands forceps used. I have
noticed a decline in their use over this time, and am wondering is this a
current trend in obstetrics generally, or perhaps just a Queensland trend to
use vacuums for assisted deliveries. I can't help wondering if it is a skill
not being passed on to our training registrars as the older obstetricians
retire, and take these skills with them, or maybe vacuum deliveries are the
easiest way out. What do other midwives think?

Marg

_
Send 1c txt to other Telstra Pre-Paid Plus mobiles. Join now
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fadsfac%2Enet%2Flink%2Easp%3F
cc%3DTEL185%2E19163%2E0%26clk%3D1%26creativeID%3D29997&_t=754399967&_m=EXT

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)

[jo]

‘Taking away this amazing opportunity for empowerment.
BIRTH ENVY?’

 

I LOVE this term – Birth Envy.

 

I have a little theory going on in my own mind that this is the
very reason that extreme sport is mainly male domain. The rush, the empowerment
and the absolute feelings of success can only be obtained by men when placing themselves
in extreme situations. There is nothing that naturally occurs in the male makeup
that could even remotely take them to the place that women need to go in order to
intuitively give birth. No man could fully understand it, in the same way a woman
who has never experienced birth first hand can truly understand it.

 

Nothing will EVER match my birth experiences (Ooooh, maybe catching
my grandchildren one day) I’d love to be pregnant and give birth another 10
times – I just don’t want anymore kids – 4’s enough for
me!

 

Cheers

 

Jo

 









From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of suzi and brett
Sent: Wednesday, 31 May 2006 3:56
PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:
E-News 8:11 - Postdates Pregnancies (May 24, 2006)



 



I love that you use the word mysogony Justine, and
hi and thankyou to you Penny too.





 





I was talking to a fellow midwife at my hosp about it the
other day. Sometimes we wanted to give the benefit of the doubt...at worst
that the actions of some Drs was paternalistic -  wanting to help the
poor ladies from their suffering (while of course making life litigiously
safer for themselves and getting paid more). 





 





Then i also considered it was just ignorance on the part of
some doctors, unware of the amazing beuaty and awesome transedence of anything
worldly in natural birth and the power that this gives women. They rarely
get to see beautiful birth (which is why i love working with student
doctors  in birth and getting in their ears). Maybe they don't understand
how good
it can be for women, is it too spiritual, too unscientific for them to get
their head around?





 





But I am more and more convinced that there is some
phsycological women hate going on as well. And wanting to claim birth into the
male relm.  Taking away this amazing opportunity for empowerment. BIRTH
ENVY?    Or thinking that most women are too weak to be able to
birth without intervention. Or too stupid to understand the details
so he'll make the desicion for them. Or too smarty pants and asking too
many questions and taking up too much time so needs to be put into place with
some condeseding remark - if that doesnt stop her she's too dangerous
and needs to be told to go elsewhere.





 





We spoke about a doctor with a very high c/section rate. If
according to him you are too short, too old , too Asian  etc- you are
convinced through the course of antenatal "care" that you can't
possibly vaginally birth and an "elective" ("elective" for
whom?) c/s is booked on a day suitable to him. By the time we are meeting the
women - for shave and catheter they are absolutly convinced they are doing
the right thing. Which puts us in a really difficult possition. 1/2 an hour
before surgery is not a great time to talk to women about their alternative
options. One woman - a 40 yr old Philipino primip was told her baby
was breech and needed to have a c/s - but it wasn't breech, and the Dr knew it.
But she was so sold on the idea that she couldnt birth vaginally that she didnt
really mind about where the baby was lying. THIS WAS NOT HIS CHOICE TO
MAKE. 





 





We need to keep working on UNIVERSAL (mainstream, free,
accessable) opportunities for women to find information and care and
reduce the fear. In that town right now the alternative voices women get
to hear are only soft squeeks amongst the bellow of the monolith. 





 





Maybe we are scared sometimes to speak up in our workplace
if we want to keep our job and dont want to rock the boat, but the women are
free to say what they want and demand complete informed consent, and we can
help them navigate that rocky terrain. And isn't it great when you get to work
with a women who is making those demands, and get to advocate for them - its
very safe territory because we are doing what our midwifery competancies
demand.  





 





Love Suzi