[ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
There ARE some important things with breech. This is where your anatomy and physiology of the newborn is very important. Understanding the circulatory system of the baby, the way the bones in the head fold over each other and the concept of creating an airway are some important considerations. The main rule is HANDS OFF, however, that is not all there is to it. With breech births it's important to have a period of 45 mins from the time the woman feels like pushing till when she actively pushes, in order to prevent the head being caught on an undilated cervix. Once the baby is born to the umbilicus, you have 7 mins to complete the birth. You want to avoid rushed handling but you also don't want to sit there like a lump. The baby can be provoked to draw breath or shoot his/her arms above the head by meddlesome handling. The body hanging (and I especially like the all 4's position for this) is Nature's way of bringing the back hairline to the introitus of the vulva. Sometimes, even without stim. the arms will be up and it's important to turn the babe's hips using a cloth and not touching the delicate organs in the belly (you can rupture organs with your pointy little fingers when the baby's abdomen is engorged and your adrenal is running) so that the shoulders are antero-post diameter in the pelvis, then reaching in and gently sweeping them down. sometimes this requires a second demi rotation for the second arm. Once the babe's hairline is visible, then, it's important NOT to let the crown of the head POP. Popping can result in a fatal tear to the cerebral tentorum---a drumlike membrane over the brain. So, at this point, you reach a finger in, get the baby's lower jaw and gently pull the mouth and nose into sight. Once there, the mother is told Stop all pushing. Then she can stay like this for a very long time and all is well. You want her to easy, easy, easy get the top of the head born so there is no pop and you know you have an airway to that baby. One of the guidelines that Michel Odent stresses is to watch the first stage to tell you how the second stage will go with a breech. If you have a smooth, progressive first stage, the second stage will follow that way. If you're having a breech birth where the progress gets hung up or stuck and the butt doesn't come down to the vulva on its own, you want to consider cesarean as a safer option. Gloria Vedrana Valèiæ wrote: Thank you, Gloria. In this article, it is said again that nothing must be done except flexing the head at the end and putting the woman in hands and knees position (or any position she feels right, I suppose?). Is there more to it than I'm getting. Because if there isn't, it sounds really simple to me. Do not interfere, just like in other kinds of births. Vedrana -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Thanks for this Gloria, It makes things a lot clearer. Cheers Judy --- G Lemay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There ARE some important things with breech. This is where your anatomy and physiology of the newborn is very important. Understanding the circulatory system of the baby, the way the bones in the head fold over each other and the concept of creating an airway are some important considerations. The main rule is HANDS OFF, however, that is not all there is to it. With breech births it's important to have a period of 45 mins from the time the woman feels like pushing till when she actively pushes, in order to prevent the head being caught on an undilated cervix. Once the baby is born to the umbilicus, you have 7 mins to complete the birth. You want to avoid rushed handling but you also don't want to sit there like a lump. The baby can be provoked to draw breath or shoot his/her arms above the head by meddlesome handling. The body hanging (and I especially like the all 4's position for this) is Nature's way of bringing the back hairline to the introitus of the vulva. Sometimes, even without stim. the arms will be up and it's important to turn the babe's hips using a cloth and not touching the delicate organs in the belly (you can rupture organs with your pointy little fingers when the baby's abdomen is engorged and your adrenal is running) so that the shoulders are antero-post diameter in the pelvis, then reaching in and gently sweeping them down. sometimes this requires a second demi rotation for the second arm. Once the babe's hairline is visible, then, it's important NOT to let the crown of the head POP. Popping can result in a fatal tear to the cerebral tentorum---a drumlike membrane over the brain. So, at this point, you reach a finger in, get the baby's lower jaw and gently pull the mouth and nose into sight. Once there, the mother is told Stop all pushing. Then she can stay like this for a very long time and all is well. You want her to easy, easy, easy get the top of the head born so there is no pop and you know you have an airway to that baby. One of the guidelines that Michel Odent stresses is to watch the first stage to tell you how the second stage will go with a breech. If you have a smooth, progressive first stage, the second stage will follow that way. If you're having a breech birth where the progress gets hung up or stuck and the butt doesn't come down to the vulva on its own, you want to consider cesarean as a safer option. Gloria Vedrana Valèiæ wrote: Thank you, Gloria. In this article, it is said again that nothing must be done except flexing the head at the end and putting the woman in hands and knees position (or any position she feels right, I suppose?). Is there more to it than I'm getting. Because if there isn't, it sounds really simple to me. Do not interfere, just like in other kinds of births. Vedrana -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Wow, thank you! Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of G Lemay Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 1:22 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. There ARE some important things with breech. This is where your anatomy and physiology of the newborn is very important. Understanding the circulatory system of the baby, the way the bones in the head fold over each other and the concept of creating an airway are some important considerations. The main rule is HANDS OFF, however, that is not all there is to it. With breech births it's important to have a period of 45 mins from the time the woman feels like pushing till when she actively pushes, in order to prevent the head being caught on an undilated cervix. Once the baby is born to the umbilicus, you have 7 mins to complete the birth. You want to avoid rushed handling but you also don't want to sit there like a lump. The baby can be provoked to draw breath or shoot his/her arms above the head by meddlesome handling. The body hanging (and I especially like the all 4's position for this) is Nature's way of bringing the back hairline to the introitus of the vulva. Sometimes, even without stim. the arms will be up and it's important to turn the babe's hips using a cloth and not touching the delicate organs in the belly (you can rupture organs with your pointy little fingers when the baby's abdomen is engorged and your adrenal is running) so that the shoulders are antero-post diameter in the pelvis, then reaching in and gently sweeping them down. sometimes this requires a second demi rotation for the second arm. Once the babe's hairline is visible, then, it's important NOT to let the crown of the head POP. Popping can result in a fatal tear to the cerebral tentorum---a drumlike membrane over the brain. So, at this point, you reach a finger in, get the baby's lower jaw and gently pull the mouth and nose into sight. Once there, the mother is told Stop all pushing. Then she can stay like this for a very long time and all is well. You want her to easy, easy, easy get the top of the head born so there is no pop and you know you have an airway to that baby. One of the guidelines that Michel Odent stresses is to watch the first stage to tell you how the second stage will go with a breech. If you have a smooth, progressive first stage, the second stage will follow that way. If you're having a breech birth where the progress gets hung up or stuck and the butt doesn't come down to the vulva on its own, you want to consider cesarean as a safer option. Gloria Vedrana Valèiæ wrote: Thank you, Gloria. In this article, it is said again that nothing must be done except flexing the head at the end and putting the woman in hands and knees position (or any position she feels right, I suppose?). Is there more to it than I'm getting. Because if there isn't, it sounds really simple to me. Do not interfere, just like in other kinds of births. Vedrana -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Don't know if this has been posted before but one
of my favourite midwives on Planet Earth is Mary Cronk of Britain. She
teaches breech courses to mws all over the British Isles. Here's a link to
an article by her on the things you need to know about this art http://www.aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol10No3/handOffbreech.htm
Gloria in Canada
- Original Message -
From:
Vedrana
Valčić
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:48
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with
breach baby...told CS only options.
Ive had one question
on my mind for quite some time - why is it said so often that delivering a
breech is becoming a lost art? Is delivering a breech that
complicated?
Vedrana
From:
owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
[mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au]
On Behalf Of Janet
FraserSent: Friday,
September 09, 2005 10:06 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with
breach baby...told CS only options.
I completely
agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused
the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and
said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no
one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for
posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she
goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and
have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't "go over." I can't
tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly
shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right
of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to
comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they
tell them total crap.
OK I'm done
too. For the moment!
:
)
J
- Original
Message -
From: brendamanning
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday, September
09, 2005 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery]
Friend with breach baby...told CS only
options.
Or the women
could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if
needed, but not "just in case"..
No consent, no
surgery!
Stay home with
a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital
??
I'm cross with
the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their
title !!!)
BM
- Original
Message -
From: Janet
Fraser
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Friday,
September 09, 2005 9:49 AM
Subject: Re:
[ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only
options.
Hi
Debbie,
oddly
enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of
choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are
becoming clear at this point.
There's
an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech
babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine
agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't
imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women
are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I
shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem
to have been supplying on a daily basis this week.
One midwifes
collection of breech turning info.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.htmlAttending
a breech birth.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.htmlTurning
a breech.http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.htmlBook
review on breech babies.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.aspIna
May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies!http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp
Homeopathy to
turn babies in utero.http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp
A great site
on moving breech babies.http://www.spinningbabies.comA
Natural Breech Birth - hospitalhttp://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.htmlMore
than you could ever hope for from the UK
midwives (I love these women!)http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htmAbout
500 birth stories with clear descriptions.http://www.breechbabies.com/hospital_breech.htm
Here's our OFP
RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options.
Thank you, Gloria. In this article, it is said again that nothing must be done except flexing the head at the end and putting the woman in hands and knees position (or any position she feels right, I suppose?). Is there more to it than Im getting. Because if there isnt, it sounds really simple to me. Do not interfere, just like in other kinds of births. Vedrana From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Gloria Lemay Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:23 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: ] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Don't know if this has been posted before but one of my favourite midwives on Planet Earth is Mary Cronk of Britain. She teaches breech courses to mws all over the British Isles. Here's a link to an article by her on the things you need to know about this art http://www.aims.org.uk/Journal/Vol10No3/handOffbreech.htm Gloria in Canada - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:48 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Ive had one question on my mind for quite some time - why is it said so often that delivering a breech is becoming a lost art? Is delivering a breech that complicated? Vedrana From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:06 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. I completely agree, Brenda. And I think anger is reasonable response to women being refused the right to birth their baby vaginally. Maybe if more women got angry and said no, it would stop happening. But sObs just keep pushing the limits and no one stands up to them so now they're starting to section automatically for posterior babies. Then what? Next time that woman wants to give birth, if she goes to that surgeon, or even a different one, she'll be damaged goods and have to have more surgery or be induced because she can't go over. I can't tell you how many women have asked me for help this week alone. It's truly shocking how many women (and babies!) are being denied the basic human right of vaginal birth. And it's truly shocking how little consumers really seem to comprehend of how the system works and actually believe their Obs when they tell them total crap. OK I'm done too. For the moment! : ) J - Original Message - From: brendamanning To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Or the women could just try saying 'NO' I don't consent to surgery, I will if needed, but not just in case.. No consent, no surgery! Stay home with a capable MW for as long as possible then go to the hospital ?? I'm cross with the oBs (not that you can't tell !! Won't even give them a capital for their title !!!) BM - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Friend with breach baby...told CS only options. Hi Debbie, oddly enough I too know 2 women in exactly this position atm. The dangers of choosing a surgeon for the care of a perfectly normal pregnancy are becoming clear at this point. There's an OB at JHH that deigns to catch breech babies - Andrew Bisits (sp?) - so perhaps he's one to try. I can't imagine agreeing to major surgery, with it's attendant risks, but I also can't imagine trying to birth my baby with a bunch of cranky onlookers. Women are just plain screwed in this scenario and it drives me into a rage. I shall content myself with sharing the info on turning breech babies I seem to have been supplying on a daily basis this week. One midwifes collection of breech turning info. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechcl.html Attending a breech birth. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechbr.html Turning a breech. http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/breechtn.html Book review on breech babies. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/reviews/breech.asp Ina May Gaskin on catching surprise breech babies! http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/3surprisebreeches.asp Homeopathy to turn babies in utero. http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articles/turnbaby.asp A great site on moving breech babies. http://www.spinningbabies.com A Natural Breech Birth - hospital http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBMarApr01p47.html More than you could ever hope for from the UK midwives (I love these women!) http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/breech.htm About 500 birth stories
