On Mon, 20 Dec 2010, Andy Farnell wrote:
In spite of a relativist position the idea of a correct interpretation
of creativity is destroyed. It would make the most hardened cognitive
scientist take a step back and question deeply all they think they know.
Turns out there are as many kinds of
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010, Chris McCormick wrote:
Ah, sorry for the confusion. I meant it to say that sometimes
constraining yourself, as with following the rules for writing haiku,
can help creativity. For some artists, there is nothing scarier than a
page with no words on it, or a canvas with no
I've read a few good things about creativity.
There's this one beautiful book I have on my shelf here.
It's called The creative process, edited by Brewster
Ghislen. It's a paperback that was 99p in a charity shop,
published by Mentor. These kind of treasures are rare
as pigs eggs. Get it if
On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 09:27:14AM +, Andrew Faraday wrote:
I understand the haiku analogy is about code being short, eloquent and saying
what needs to be said in relatively few words.
Ah, sorry for the confusion. I meant it to say that sometimes constraining
yourself, as with following the
...@artengine.ca
To: ch...@mccormick.cx
CC: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010, Chris McCormick wrote:
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 12:10:24PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
expressing yourself at an appropriate level of understanding, but
The appropriate level of understanding
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010, Chris McCormick wrote:
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 09:57:08PM -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
In many cases it is replaced by the effort required to make
a hack to replace the functionality of the missing external.
Yep. In my experience, the cost-benefit balance usually falls on
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Andrew Faraday wrote:
* Perhaps it's not really OOP,
Ruby is definitely OOP, but what you want is not OOP, it's Ruby itself.
* It looks like there's a lot of debate going around, it was, largely a
passing notion that started it. However I realize PD can do (probably)
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010, Chris McCormick wrote:
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 12:10:24PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
expressing yourself at an appropriate level of understanding, but
The appropriate level of understanding is the level at which people hear the
noise and want to party. Is there any
--- On Thu, 12/16/10, Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx wrote:
From: Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at
Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010, 8:32 AM
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 09:57:08PM
-0800
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Hash: SHA1
On 2010-12-16 00:55, Andrew Faraday wrote:
I'm amazed just how much conversation this has caused, and I've only had a
chance to skim-read all the replies that it's gained today so here's a couple
of answers.
* Perhaps it's not really OOP, my
In my experience with emulating OOP in Pd I've had moderate success. As a
Java developer by day, I find myself attempting to recreate familiar
patterns within Pd (ie: usually IoC and Flyweight in Pd). Main problems
with recreating OOP in Pd are the following:
1. Everything is global
2.
What exactly would this (#4) look like in Pd?
-Jonathan
--- On Wed, 12/15/10, brandon zeeb zeeb.bran...@gmail.com wrote:
From: brandon zeeb zeeb.bran...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
To: PD List pd-list@iem.at
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 1:51 PM
In my experience with emulating
--- On *Wed, 12/15/10, brandon zeeb zeeb.bran...@gmail.com* wrote:
From: brandon zeeb zeeb.bran...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
To: PD List pd-list@iem.at
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 1:51 PM
In my experience with emulating OOP in Pd I've had moderate success. As a
Java developer
On 2010-12-15 13:51, brandon zeeb wrote:
1. Everything is global
hmm, i'd say the content of a message is as local as can be.
mfsdr
IOhannes
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/15/10, brandon zeeb zeeb.bran...@gmail.com wrote:
From: brandon zeeb zeeb.bran...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 3:04 PM
Many options have been proposed over the years, my favorite thus far
The point here refers to the common use of $0. This isn't necessarily a bad
thing (and is actually helpful in most cases), but can make certain things a
little more difficult with regards to true OOP.
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:14 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.atwrote:
On 2010-12-15
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
What exactly would this (#4) look like in Pd?
1. Everything is global
4. No concept of this
The use of the $0- prefix for receive-symbols ([r]) and variables ([v]).
It's a hack. I made a similar hack for making OOP in Tcl, but at
On 2010-12-15 15:38, brandon zeeb wrote:
The point here refers to the common use of $0. This isn't necessarily a bad
thing (and is actually helpful in most cases), but can make certain things a
little more difficult with regards to true OOP.
the point i was trying to make is: people usually
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, brandon zeeb wrote:
2. No control over abstraction (object) construction order and
lifecycle
What's that ?
3. No introspection (although not required, very helpful, and don't tell me
it's in some external, I don't care!)
Why do you don't care about externals that
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Andrew Faraday wrote:
You might want to have a look at Jamie Bullock's abstraction based
solution(which also went out on this list). Which was quite eloquent, if
a little limiting at first. It's a little way back from the dream of
dropping lines of OO code into pd but
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
On 2010-12-15 13:51, brandon zeeb wrote:
1. Everything is global
hmm, i'd say the content of a message is as local as can be.
A patchcord by itself is also pretty local. Think of it as some kind of
function-pointer (or rather,
Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, brandon zeeb wrote:
2. No control over abstraction (object) construction order and
lifecycle
What's that ?
3. No introspection (although not required, very helpful, and don't
tell me it's in some external, I don't care!)
Why do you don't
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, brandon zeeb wrote:
Say you compute a raised cosine window and store it in a table, this
table is used within one instance of a granular table reading voice
abstraction, 1-n of these abstractions are created at run time for
polyphony. Now you have N instances of this
Sorry, gmail is hacking up the comment log. Comments are inline.
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.cawrote:
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, brandon zeeb wrote:
Say you compute a raised cosine window and store it in a table, this
table is used within one instance of a
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
I agree on this.. but why you say is it sad? It means Pd is modular like any
sane programming 'environment'... You couldn't do much in a programming
language using it vanilla no? (well apart from assembler maybe)... IMHO
It's sad because many of the
:24 -0500
From: ma...@artengine.ca
To: lsut...@libero.it
CC: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
I agree on this.. but why you say is it sad? It means Pd is modular like any
sane programming 'environment'... You couldn't do much in a programming
As for named variables, [rl] and [sl] are local.
-Jonathan
--- On Wed, 12/15/10, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote:
From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
To: pd-list@iem.at
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 4:19 PM
On 2010-12-15 15:38, brandon zeeb
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.cawrote:
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, brandon zeeb wrote:
do you, really ?
Why are people getting offended here?
Am I getting offended ? How would you know, anyway ?
Well, you're certainly argumentative :-/
Having to
zeeb.bran...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
To: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at
Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010, 1:45 AM
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, brandon zeeb wrote:
do you, really
and closebang
* a way to read a text file that's guaranteed to not generate a bad
argument
error
-Jonathan
--- On *Thu, 12/16/10, brandon zeeb zeeb.bran...@gmail.com* wrote:
From: brandon zeeb zeeb.bran...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
To: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Cc
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010, brandon zeeb wrote:
Well, you're certainly argumentative :-/
If that's a problem... then it's over.
___
| Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:23:24AM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
IMHO, directing your criticism at pd-vanilla alone is extremely
unproductive. You have to accept the fact that doing real work in Pd may
require a lot of externals. It's sad, but it's like that. I wouldn't use
Pd if it
--- On Thu, 12/16/10, Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx wrote:
From: Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
To: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at
Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010, 5:40 AM
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:23:24AM
-0500
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 09:57:08PM -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
--- On Thu, 12/16/10, Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx wrote:
From: Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
To: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
Cc: PD List pd-list@iem.at
Date: Thursday
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Andrew Faraday wrote:
I've had a bit of a daydream about a further development in PD. Could an
expression be placed into the arguments of an object, or even a named
receive become part of expr
Written the way you wrote it, that would conflict with the means to access
a
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Jmax Phoenix does this. If I recall correctly it breaks the nested list
feature in Gridflow.
Well, it's a bit more complicated. Back then, GridFlow's nested lists were
written using braces {}, but they weren't GridFlow's nested lists, they
were
CC: pd-list@iem.at; jbtur...@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] PD OOP?
On Mon, 13 Dec 2010, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Jmax Phoenix does this. If I recall correctly it breaks the nested list
feature in Gridflow.
Well, it's a bit more complicated. Back then, GridFlow's nested lists were
I know Max has an [if] object that looks pretty much like your [if pitch...
etc.] example below.
-Jonathan
--- On Wed, 12/15/10, Andrew Faraday jbtur...@hotmail.com wrote:
From: Andrew Faraday jbtur...@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [PD] PD OOP?
To: ma...@artengine.ca, jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: pd-list
Jmax Phoenix does this. If I recall correctly it breaks the nested list
feature
in Gridflow.
But considering your [osc~ (pitch * 2)]
example-- what would happen if you change the value of pitch? The value
of the [osc~] object's argument is assigned to be the initial frequency only
when the
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