[PD] puredata evolution
Niklas wrote: Mathieu wrote: Because it's cheaper to implement. If well done, it's also an intermediate step towards automatic threading. It's important to cut hard goals into easier goals, because it reduces required investment and gives quicker returns. yes, I totally agree but I was curious about the technical aspects and not necessarily about the development process that naturally has to obey these rules. I don't really see the technical aspects and the development process as being that much separated. It's at the same time the fact that development processes are full of techniques, so i don't know why it should't be considered technical; and also that technical aspects that are designed without taking development processes into account, can easily become unrealistic. Also, I wouldn't trust automatic threading to make use of the CPUs in the best possible way all of the time, *especially* for real-time. well, afair an algorithm for the optimal solution would be in NP anyway. if a suboptimal solution is enough, i think you can use it in a realtime system very well; ableton live for example scales with multiple cores/cpus. I have no idea how Ableton does it. I have never used Ableton and barely know anything about it. I am not certain about how to control multiple CPU usage in a way that prevents all the kinds of dropouts that could arise from it. It has to do with whether you can predict the timing of an object according to an history of its previous timing. If objects can switch CPUs efficiently anytime, maybe this issue is moot, but I don't assume that this is necessarily feasible with my current level of knowledge. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] puredata evolution
On Thu, 31 May 2007, Miller Puckette wrote: The great majority of DSP objects are side-effect-free and thread-safe. On average it doesn't matter, because video is the high-bandwidth, high-crunching task, while audio is becoming (or already is) low-bandwidth, low-crunching, in comparison to the machine's capacity, even without using SIMD. There still isn't any pd DSP subsystem that carries video (there was one in jMax...). what's more, I don't think there's any reliable way to determine that an object is threadsafe. A reliable way to determine is to look up a table that lists all the object classes that are known to be threadsafe. That's at least as reliable as the humans that certify the threadsafeness. So a parallelized version of Pd would, in practice, occasionally crash mysteriously. Only if there are object classes in that list, that shouldn't be there. Furthermore, as new DSP objects get written new sources of crashes would appear, leaving us in all liklihood in a situation where no version of Pd ever emerged that was entirely free of thread-related crashes. Not a real pretty sight. If there are any crashes that you can't debug, you can still reduce the amount of threadliness. Almost all race-conditions in pd would result in wrong output instead of crashes. If you want to address threading issues, consider all race-conditions, not just crashes. Another possibility would be to make Pd open up several address spaces and run portions of the patch in then. This was how Max/FTS worked on the ISPW. With or without shared memory? Just to offer my two cents... USA's currency is falling down nowadays. _ _ __ ___ _ _ _ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Voice Synth
moin Georg, moin list, On 2007-06-02 12:34:18, Georg Holzmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> appears to have written: > Hallo! > > Bryan Jurish is the speech expert in pd world ;) ... you can find all > his stuff here: http://www.ling.uni-potsdam.de/~moocow/projects/pd/ Thanks for plugging my site Georg... saves me some typing ;-) > There are the ratts and flite externals. I think he also made an > external for the mbrola speech synthesizer, but did not release it ... Sorry, never made an mbrola external -- mbrola is closed-source free-as-in-beer-ware. Somebody (I forget who) wrote a MAX external for mbrola a few years back, and unto him did I praise and extol the wonders and glories of flext, but lo, the release was binary, and it was only unto the Mac, and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. I did make an ugly-hack patch at one point using ext13 (pipein~?) to talk to mbrola over named fifos, but it never worked particularly well. I have another (far, far uglier but at least functional) system that looks like (pd <--(OSC)--> perl <--(TCP)--> festival --(system calls?)--> mbrola --> temp files --> pd), but the guts are all freely available (SayWhat is the perl part, festival works "out-of-the-box", and my patches basically require my entire patch library, which I'm too lazy to package at the moment). If anyone is terribly interested, I can tar up my whole pd patch library and point you at the relevant patches. > Yes, for the pd radio I used the flite external, which is quite okay but > only english ... It's allegedly possible to compile a flite library for any festival language-model built with the festvox tools (note: this does not include German: AFAIK the only festival support for German is from IMS Stuttgart, they've stopped supporting it, and I personally have never gotten it to compile, even after much wailing, gnashing of teeth, etc.) I'm not sure how well the pd flite interface actually supports multiple languages -- I've only ever tested it with the default english models. It should be pretty straightforward to compile & link it against an alternate flite library though. If anyone succeeds, I'm happy to discuss how to go about generalizing the build procedure. marmosets, Bryan -- Bryan Jurish "There is *always* one more bug." [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Lubarsky's Law of Cybernetic Entomology ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Voice Synth
moin Pall, moin list, Many apologies that the ratts help files seem to be less than entirely intuitive to first-time users; in my defense, I can only say: "sheesh, man, if you folks think the ratts pd API is poorly documented, y'all should see the rsynth code"... ok, now that I've gotten that out of my system (no flame intended, honestly): do you have an immediate suggestion as to how I could improve things? I realize that a ratts chain has more user-settable parameters than you can shake a proverbial stick at, but the defaults should be sensible (if you want something that sounds vaguely like human speech), and playing with those strange animals is half the fun ;-) I included the 'ratts~' abstraction so that users could get an idea how all those separate objects work together and/or just "make pd talk"; and I rather hoped that the 'ratts-help.pd' help patch would suffice for an overview of the objects in it... oh well... marmosets, Bryan On 2007-06-02 15:49:43, Pall Thayer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> appears to have written: > Hi list, > > I've toyed around with Ratts quite a bit and when you do have the help > files it makes everything seem more complicated than it really is. So, > here's a little patch that contains the bare essentials that you need to > do start experimenting with Ratts: > > ratsass.pd: [snip] -- Bryan Jurish "There is *always* one more bug." [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Lubarsky's Law of Cybernetic Entomology ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Question about possible SQL/MySQL Externals
This would be awesome, could do some really cool net art projects with this. ~David On 5/30/07, Mike McGonagle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello all, > > I was wondering if anyone had thought of creating an interface set of > externals for storing and retrieving data from a Database? Basically, > I was interested in seeing if anyone has created some externals that > do basic SQL transactions. > > Or is this something that is not very practical? > > Mike McGonagle > > If you think you can, or you think you can't, you are probably right. > —Mark Twain > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Voice Synth
moin Roman, moin all, On 2007-06-02 11:53:21, Roman Haefeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> appears to have written: > but i couldn't find a help file. also when i create it, i get the > message: > > ratts: Realtime Analog Text-To-Speech externals v0.04 by Bryan Jurish > ratts: Based on text-to-speech code by Nick Ing-Simmons and Jon Iles > ratts: and PD external code by Orm Finnendahl and Travis Newhouse > > but the object doesn't get any inlets nor outlets. maybe you can tell us > a bit more about this external? Since Georg has already plugged my site (thanks, Georg!) , I will refrain from doing so at this juncture. [ratts] is just a dummy object which causes the whole library to be loaded. I used to be (actually, I still am) of the opinion that every external *library* should be dynamically loadable (which they are), and that it should be possible for any given abstraction to specify the libraries it requires by placing library-named objects (e.g. [zexy], [ratts], etc.) onto its canvas. Unfortunately, in my case, this practice has lead to much wailing and gnashing of teeth in particular with respect to pd-0.40.x and flext-based externals. Don't ask me why. If you grab the "official" ratts distribution, you should have a help-file ratts-help.pd for [ratts] which gives you an overview of the various objects and abstractions in the library. If you just want pd to talk, check out the "ratts~" abstraction: text in, speech signal out. marmosets, Bryan -- Bryan Jurish "There is *always* one more bug." [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Lubarsky's Law of Cybernetic Entomology ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] loading wav.samples with readsf
hi list, i`ve been trying to play wav.samples using the "readsf"-object but don`t have no luck "error: readsf: start requested with no prior 'open' ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu." maybe its due to my message-box "open"!? + i couldn`t put the wav.files into the sound-folder of pd - using a mac with `PD-0.39-0` i can see the pd-folders only via "help > browser" - but can not paste something here... thank you very much sebastian -- GMX FreeMail: 1 GB Postfach, 5 E-Mail-Adressen, 10 Free SMS. Alle Infos und kostenlose Anmeldung: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freemail ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] loading samples in arrays
Hallo,
Johannes Krause hat gesagt: // Johannes Krause wrote:
> Georg Holzmann schrieb:
> > Hallo Johannes!
> >
> >
> >> i am using the tabplay~ object to play out of 48 arrays.
> >> it takes alot of time to load the samples in the arrays.
> >>
> >
> > However, you can also try to stream it directly from the harddisk with
> > [readsf~] - then you don't have to load them at all !
> >
> > LG
> > Georg
> >
> >
> gruss georg,
>
> i want to loop 4*4 samples at the same time. will readsf~ be good for that?
It depends: You can just reopen the files of course. remeber to first
send the "open ..." command before sending another 1 to resume
playing. If this will be smooth depends on your material, but maybe
you can mask the transition a bit, for example by using two readsf~ to
play the same file and start them slightly shifted (maybe prepare your
soundfiles accordingly).
Another possibility is for example illustrated in the class material
Tom Erbe just posted: It shows how you can load only part of a sample
into a table. See:
http://music.ucsd.edu/~tre/172/w6a-soundfilerbuffering.pd
http://music.ucsd.edu/~tre/classblog.php
(Probably works best with a threaded soundfiler.)
And finally you can combine the partial soundfiler loading ("-skip
...") with readsf~ playing by loading e.g. the beginning of a sample
into a table and then switch over to playing the rest of the sample
from disk with readsf~. You can do this to smooth out possible
loop-point clicks as well by fading out readsf~ and switching over to
table-playing again.
Lots of possibilities, some slightly hackish, but that's part of the
fun.
Ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
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Re: [PD] loading samples in arrays
Georg Holzmann schrieb: > Hallo Johannes! > > >> i am using the tabplay~ object to play out of 48 arrays. >> it takes alot of time to load the samples in the arrays. >> > > However, you can also try to stream it directly from the harddisk with > [readsf~] - then you don't have to load them at all ! > > LG > Georg > > gruss georg, i want to loop 4*4 samples at the same time. will readsf~ be good for that? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] loading samples in arrays
Georg Holzmann schrieb: > Hallo Johannes! > >> i am using the tabplay~ object to play out of 48 arrays. >> it takes alot of time to load the samples in the arrays. >> >> what is the best way to load the samples into the arrays in less time? >> is it more efficient to use 4 channel audio files with soundfiler? > > I don't know but I don't think that this will make much difference - it > takes some time till you copy the data in memory ... hm ... I meant it WON'T make much difference ! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] loading samples in arrays
Hallo Johannes! > i am using the tabplay~ object to play out of 48 arrays. > it takes alot of time to load the samples in the arrays. > > what is the best way to load the samples into the arrays in less time? > is it more efficient to use 4 channel audio files with soundfiler? I don't know but I don't think that this will make much difference - it takes some time till you copy the data in memory ... However, you can also try to stream it directly from the harddisk with [readsf~] - then you don't have to load them at all ! LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] libgl1-mesa-glx VS. libgl1-mesa-swx11 on Gem/PD Ubuntu 7.04
Hi all,
I just did a Ubuntu-server 7.04 install on an old
G3/ppc. Everything went well and after installing
xorg/pd/gem, pd would crash on gemwin 'create'. After
a few hours of tinkering I replaced libgl1-mesa-glx
with libgl1-mesa-swx11:
$ apt-get remove libgl1-mesa-glx libgl1-mesa-swx11+
...and everything worked!
I then reinstalled the entire system to make sure my
replacement hunch was correct (because i did a lot of
other hacking that might have confilicted, etc)
It all worked after a new install + xorg and glx
replacement with swx11.
I was just wondering if anyone knows of this -
specifically libgl1-mesa-swx11 and why glx fails to
work in creating a gemwin. I did some searching and
found little info on swx11
One thing that i noticed is that apt-get wants to
remove 'xorg' and all dependencies. It removes xorg
but keeps everthing else (xserver-xorg etc). Things
seem to work fine but i still get a 'run apt-get
autoremove' warning to remove all 100 or so xorg
dependencies everytime i use apt-get
...any info would be super!
I'm documenting my progress for use in a tutorial for
noobs on 'bringing low-end systems back to life for
artists' which might eventually become a more
formalized workshop/class. Any help is apprieciated!
best
mark
mark edward grimm | m.f.a | ed.m
megrimm.net | socialmediagroup.org & .com
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | 585.509.8703
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[PD] loading samples in arrays
hi list, i want to play 48 samples (12 quadrophonic) in pd, each about 4 min at 44.1 kHz. i am using the tabplay~ object to play out of 48 arrays. it takes alot of time to load the samples in the arrays. what is the best way to load the samples into the arrays in less time? is it more efficient to use 4 channel audio files with soundfiler? joe ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Voice Synth
Hi list, I've toyed around with Ratts quite a bit and when you do have the help files it makes everything seem more complicated than it really is. So, here's a little patch that contains the bare essentials that you need to do start experimenting with Ratts: ratsass.pd: #N canvas 87 74 462 312 10; #X obj 259 232 dac~; #X obj 221 96 guessphones; #X obj 221 179 klatt~; #X obj 335 105 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1 1 1; #X obj 220 117 phones2holmes f; #X obj 271 203 freeverb~; #X obj 335 125 metro 15; #X msg 155 120 basec \$1; #X floatatom 155 102 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X msg 14 7 I wanna be your witch doktah oh yeah; #X msg 142 148 f0decl 20; #X obj 216 140 holmes f0decl 0 topc -30; #X msg 14 49 this is SO crazy; #X msg 14 28 yo homes; #X msg 14 71 browthoom koma blessooth yoelin; #X obj 334 85 loadbang; #X connect 1 0 4 0; #X connect 2 0 0 0; #X connect 2 0 0 1; #X connect 2 0 5 0; #X connect 3 0 6 0; #X connect 4 0 11 0; #X connect 5 0 0 0; #X connect 5 1 0 1; #X connect 6 0 11 0; #X connect 7 0 11 0; #X connect 8 0 7 0; #X connect 9 0 1 0; #X connect 10 0 11 0; #X connect 11 0 2 0; #X connect 12 0 1 0; #X connect 13 0 1 0; #X connect 14 0 1 0; #X connect 15 0 3 0; On 2-Jun-07, at 5:53 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Sat, 2007-06-02 at 10:15 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Claude Heiland-Allen hat gesagt: // Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: There is an external for Festival Lite - think it's called flite; was tricky to compile the last time I used it; it renders sentences to audio in tables iirc - was a while ago I tried it. I think pd-radio used it too, but I could be wrong... There also is ratts, which is very cool. i found the external in: /abstractions/rradical/instruments/speakerboxx/ratts.pd_linux but i couldn't find a help file. also when i create it, i get the message: ratts: Realtime Analog Text-To-Speech externals v0.04 by Bryan Jurish ratts: Based on text-to-speech code by Nick Ing-Simmons and Jon Iles ratts: and PD external code by Orm Finnendahl and Travis Newhouse but the object doesn't get any inlets nor outlets. maybe you can tell us a bit more about this external? ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list -- Pall Thayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.this.is/pallit ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Voice Synth
Hallo, Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: > i found the external in: > > /abstractions/rradical/instruments/speakerboxx/ratts.pd_linux Oops, that binary doesn't belong there. I'll need to remove it. See Georg's mail for answers to the other questions. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Voice Synth
Hallo! Bryan Jurish is the speech expert in pd world ;) ... you can find all his stuff here: http://www.ling.uni-potsdam.de/~moocow/projects/pd/ There are the ratts and flite externals. I think he also made an external for the mbrola speech synthesizer, but did not release it ... Yes, for the pd radio I used the flite external, which is quite okay but only english ... If you want to make other languages you can use mbrola via a shell script (I can send you one if you are interested). LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Voice Synth
On Sat, 2007-06-02 at 10:15 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote: > Hallo, > Claude Heiland-Allen hat gesagt: // Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: > > > There is an external for Festival Lite - think it's called flite; was > > tricky to compile the last time I used it; it renders sentences to audio > > in tables iirc - was a while ago I tried it. I think pd-radio used it > > too, but I could be wrong... > > There also is ratts, which is very cool. i found the external in: /abstractions/rradical/instruments/speakerboxx/ratts.pd_linux but i couldn't find a help file. also when i create it, i get the message: ratts: Realtime Analog Text-To-Speech externals v0.04 by Bryan Jurish ratts: Based on text-to-speech code by Nick Ing-Simmons and Jon Iles ratts: and PD external code by Orm Finnendahl and Travis Newhouse but the object doesn't get any inlets nor outlets. maybe you can tell us a bit more about this external? ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Voice Synth
Hallo, Claude Heiland-Allen hat gesagt: // Claude Heiland-Allen wrote: > There is an external for Festival Lite - think it's called flite; was > tricky to compile the last time I used it; it renders sentences to audio > in tables iirc - was a while ago I tried it. I think pd-radio used it > too, but I could be wrong... There also is ratts, which is very cool. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
