Re: [PD] sssad slowness

2008-07-22 Thread Enrique Erne
Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote:
> 
>> i'm pretty sure it's the singleton it dynamically creates stuff onload.
> 
> The singleton is needed to filter out duplicate keys-value-pairs,
> which is necessary as sssad was designed to also work with sequential
> containers like textfile or message boxes, but only with hash-type
> containers like [pool].
> 
> So [sssad] cannot remove the [singleton]. 

Hi Frank

sorry i was not very specific. in fact i did replace the singleton with 
a little mechanism onload that checks if it is the first and opens up 
the spigot. all other instances with the same key, that load after the 
first, wont open the spigot.

i think it behaves the same. please check the sssad-help and see inside 
the toggle []<-first

my naming is probably bad but if there are no other problems and you 
approve it would be nice if you could include it into the main version.

please check.

eni

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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
Chris McCormick wrote:

> That's Frank, not me.

Oops...

> sssad does not cause any loading slowdowns on my system (Vanilla Pd, not
> pd-extended - if that makes any difference).

It might. I'm leaving for hollidays in a few hours, but when I get back, 
I might try a regular PD install.

-- 
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Atte

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Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
Frank Barknecht wrote:

> I don't yet understand: What exactly do you want to store?

Such tickers would have gui-switches for which "parts" (like in 
structure) they're active in. That's what I'd like to store...

> So for sssad: You can use keys like [sssad $0-somekey] but as soon as
> you save them to a file or message box, you will have something like
> 1026-somekey in your storage and you can only restore it if you're
> lucky because 1026 doesn't equal $0. 1026 even is a completely
> different concept than $0.

Right, I understand. I promise I'll refer from using $0 this way ever 
again :-)

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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

2008-07-22 Thread Chris McCormick
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 07:45:38AM +0200, Atte André Jensen wrote:
> Wow. Loads in no time (1 sec), and works perfectly. I had problems with 
> somethings not being restored, but I was relying on $0 as unique 
> identifier in those areas, so maybe that's what bid me.
> 
> Shouldn't you and sssad's author (Chris?) get together and merge these 

That's Frank, not me.

sssad does not cause any loading slowdowns on my system (Vanilla Pd, not
pd-extended - if that makes any difference).

Best,

Chris.

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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

2008-07-22 Thread Frank Barknecht
Hallo,
Atte André Jensen hat gesagt: // Atte André Jensen wrote:

> Shouldn't you and sssad's author (Chris?) get together and merge these 
> improvements into sssad? 

See my other mail. It's not an improvement but a feature removal. 

Btw.: You can store other things than numbers in sssad. Try storing a
list, then you don't need that many sssad objects. 

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

2008-07-22 Thread Frank Barknecht
Hallo,
Enrique Erne hat gesagt: // Enrique Erne wrote:

> i'm pretty sure it's the singleton it dynamically creates stuff onload.

The singleton is needed to filter out duplicate keys-value-pairs,
which is necessary as sssad was designed to also work with sequential
containers like textfile or message boxes, but only with hash-type
containers like [pool].

So [sssad] cannot remove the [singleton]. 

Ciao
-- 
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Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?

2008-07-22 Thread Frank Barknecht
Hallo,
Atte André Jensen hat gesagt: // Atte André Jensen wrote:

> I have an abstraction that counts the beats (or 1/8 notes or other note 
> values) and sends out 0, 1, 2, 3 etc for every beat. The idea is to 
> instantiate this for every "instrument" that needs to know about time. 
> So in one piece it might be two in others 50. A convienient way to store 
> them was simply to refer to $0, since I didn't have to worry about 
> making some unique identifier up for each instance.
> 
> Does it make sense?

I don't yet understand: What exactly do you want to store?

Generally one should not assume anything about $0 except that it is a
unique number in every .pd-file. Well, currently you can also assume that
it starts at 1000 and will only grow but assuming anything else is bad
and will break in the long run.

So for sssad: You can use keys like [sssad $0-somekey] but as soon as
you save them to a file or message box, you will have something like
1026-somekey in your storage and you can only restore it if you're
lucky because 1026 doesn't equal $0. 1026 even is a completely
different concept than $0.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
Chris McCormick wrote:

> I understand. You want "throw-away" auto-ids. I'm not sure if anyone has
> come up with a satisfactory way of doing that, but I will have a think
> about it.

At least auto-ids. They shouldn't be thrown more away than they are the 
same next time :-)

> Incidentally, How I handle timing is I have a global timer [s-metro]
> that keeps going up and up, and I use [mod 4] to (for example) have a
> loop of 4 ticks or [mod 32] for 32 ticks. Sometimes I get crazy and add
> together two [mod]s to get some weird sounding rhythms.

Sounds just like mine. Except I need the concept of "parts" (like in 
verse, chorus, etc). I've put some basic stuff together that allow me to 
specify 8 parts. Each part have a length, and a "goto"-part so when a 
part is done it goes to the next one. Besides this you can "request" a 
certain part to come up next. This is all reflected and controlled from 
my bcr.

What this means for my "ticker" is that it has on/off switches for each 
part, so a given ticker might only output if we're playing part 0 or 2.

-- 
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Atte

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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
Enrique Erne wrote:

> i hacked together a ad (slim super simple state saving system)
> uhm what was the a and the d in the abbreviation for?

Hmmm. Hacked...

> Atte would you mind and test my version?
> please test for functionality and loading time. i might have overseen 
> something.

Wow. Loads in no time (1 sec), and works perfectly. I had problems with 
somethings not being restored, but I was relying on $0 as unique 
identifier in those areas, so maybe that's what bid me.

Shouldn't you and sssad's author (Chris?) get together and merge these 
improvements into sssad? I mean, I have no idea how much tape and 
chewinggum you used in your code, but it sure works :-)

-- 
peace, love & harmony
Atte

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Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?

2008-07-22 Thread Chris McCormick
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 07:25:58AM +0200, Atte André Jensen wrote:
> Chris McCormick wrote:
> 
> >Is this so you can save and load different groups of pre-sets
> >separately? I have been trying to think of a nice portable solution to
> >that problem, using sssad. I have some ideas, but nothing concrete yet.
> 
> No.
> 
> I have an abstraction that counts the beats (or 1/8 notes or other note 
> values) and sends out 0, 1, 2, 3 etc for every beat. The idea is to 
> instantiate this for every "instrument" that needs to know about time. 
> So in one piece it might be two in others 50. A convienient way to store 
> them was simply to refer to $0, since I didn't have to worry about 
> making some unique identifier up for each instance.

I understand. You want "throw-away" auto-ids. I'm not sure if anyone has
come up with a satisfactory way of doing that, but I will have a think
about it.

Incidentally, How I handle timing is I have a global timer [s-metro]
that keeps going up and up, and I use [mod 4] to (for example) have a
loop of 4 ticks or [mod 32] for 32 ticks. Sometimes I get crazy and add
together two [mod]s to get some weird sounding rhythms.

Chris.

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Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
Chris McCormick wrote:

> Is this so you can save and load different groups of pre-sets
> separately? I have been trying to think of a nice portable solution to
> that problem, using sssad. I have some ideas, but nothing concrete yet.

No.

I have an abstraction that counts the beats (or 1/8 notes or other note 
values) and sends out 0, 1, 2, 3 etc for every beat. The idea is to 
instantiate this for every "instrument" that needs to know about time. 
So in one piece it might be two in others 50. A convienient way to store 
them was simply to refer to $0, since I didn't have to worry about 
making some unique identifier up for each instance.

Does it make sense?

-- 
peace, love & harmony
Atte

http://atte.dk   | http://myspace.com/attejensen
http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk

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Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?

2008-07-22 Thread Chris McCormick
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 10:37:44PM +0200, Atte André Jensen wrote:
> The reason I ask, is I'd like to use $0 as an unique identifier together 
> with sssad...

Is this so you can save and load different groups of pre-sets
separately? I have been trying to think of a nice portable solution to
that problem, using sssad. I have some ideas, but nothing concrete yet.

Best,

Chris.

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Re: [PD] sssad slowness

2008-07-22 Thread Enrique Erne

hi Atte

i'm pretty sure it's the singleton it dynamically creates stuff onload.

i hacked together a ad (slim super simple state saving system)
uhm what was the a and the d in the abbreviation for?

Atte would you mind and test my version?
please test for functionality and loading time. i might have overseen 
something.


good luck

eni

(i removed the singleton and included persistence)


Atte André Jensen wrote:

Hi

Ok, so I'm playing with sssad, and it's really easy to work with. I 
saved some of the settings in my "environment" (a sssad save is here: 
http://atte.dk/download/test_alive.txt). Loading/saving the state itself 
is snappy, but loading the main patch is really slow (hogs the machine 
for 15 seconds, before the load is complete). With plans to add more 
things to the state, I figure something else must be done. So:


1) Is this normal behaviour of sssad?

2) Should I change something in my setup (backend, ramdisk)? I guess 
this is not is the part of the problem since loading a state is fast but 
regular load of the sssad-enabled patch is sloow, but what do I know...


3) Is something broken in my sssad install? I had problems, that I 
solved by moving sssad* to /usr/lib/pd/extra/ (from 
/usr/lib/pd/extra/sssad/), but that might have left some badness behind.


BTW: sssad-example, (from which I copied stuff) also loads quite slow, 
maybe 2-3 seconds.




#N canvas 267 25 728 505 10;
#X obj 153 54 inlet;
#X obj 153 417 outlet;
#X obj 153 395 list;
#X obj 176 161 r SSSAD;
#X obj 218 134 s SSSAD;
#X obj 218 112 list prepend \$1;
#X obj 176 189 list trim;
#X obj 218 54 inlet;
#X obj 56 308 r SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 56 356 b;
#X obj 56 334 route set;
#X obj 153 81 b;
#X obj 176 252 route \$1;
#X obj 191 282 s \$0-sssad-data;
#X obj 372 302 list;
#X obj 372 362 list prepend \$1;
#X obj 372 389 list prepend persist;
#X obj 372 412 s SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 372 190 r SSSAD_ADMIN;
#X obj 372 236 route save;
#X obj 372 258 b;
#X obj 395 279 r \$0-sssad-data;
#X obj 372 212 spigot;
#X obj 508 154 loadbang;
#X obj 508 208 f 1;
#X obj 540 258 sel 1;
#X obj 525 182 r SSSAD_\$1.test;
#X obj 540 303 s SSSAD_\$1.test;
#X obj 540 279 f 0;
#X obj 508 234 t a a;
#X obj 526 338 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 0
1;
#X text 549 337 <- first?;
#X connect 0 0 11 0;
#X connect 2 0 1 0;
#X connect 3 0 6 0;
#X connect 5 0 4 0;
#X connect 6 0 12 0;
#X connect 7 0 5 0;
#X connect 8 0 10 0;
#X connect 9 0 2 0;
#X connect 10 0 9 0;
#X connect 11 0 2 0;
#X connect 12 0 2 1;
#X connect 12 0 13 0;
#X connect 14 0 15 0;
#X connect 15 0 16 0;
#X connect 16 0 17 0;
#X connect 18 0 22 0;
#X connect 19 0 20 0;
#X connect 20 0 14 0;
#X connect 21 0 14 1;
#X connect 22 0 19 0;
#X connect 23 0 24 0;
#X connect 24 0 29 0;
#X connect 25 0 28 0;
#X connect 26 0 24 1;
#X connect 28 0 27 0;
#X connect 29 0 22 1;
#X connect 29 0 30 0;
#X connect 29 1 25 0;
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[PD] sssad slowness

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
Hi

Ok, so I'm playing with sssad, and it's really easy to work with. I 
saved some of the settings in my "environment" (a sssad save is here: 
http://atte.dk/download/test_alive.txt). Loading/saving the state itself 
is snappy, but loading the main patch is really slow (hogs the machine 
for 15 seconds, before the load is complete). With plans to add more 
things to the state, I figure something else must be done. So:

1) Is this normal behaviour of sssad?

2) Should I change something in my setup (backend, ramdisk)? I guess 
this is not is the part of the problem since loading a state is fast but 
regular load of the sssad-enabled patch is sloow, but what do I know...

3) Is something broken in my sssad install? I had problems, that I 
solved by moving sssad* to /usr/lib/pd/extra/ (from 
/usr/lib/pd/extra/sssad/), but that might have left some badness behind.

BTW: sssad-example, (from which I copied stuff) also loads quite slow, 
maybe 2-3 seconds.

-- 
peace, love & harmony
Atte

http://atte.dk   | http://myspace.com/attejensen
http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk

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Re: [PD] print all abstractions and externals

2008-07-22 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner

On Jul 11, 2008, at 2:24 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:

> Hallo,
> IOhannes m zmoelnig hat gesagt: // IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
>
>> João Pais wrote:
>>> I meant the latest usable (which I have installed) builds of
>>> pd-extended, and the last version of
>>> pd-vanilla-without-documentation-about-data-strucutures-and-so-on  
>>> (also
>>> being unfair).
>>> I haven't being using pd too much these days for sound, but in  
>>> the last
>>> builds of pd-ext I didn't notice anything that was behind pd-van.  
>>> before
>>> I was using pd-van .41 because of the symbol grab feature in the  
>>> data
>>> structures (which I only know about because I requested it, it's not
>>> documented). as this feature is now possible in the current build of
>>> pd-ext, I notice no differences between them.
>>
>> ok, but this seems to be a bit subjective evaluation.
>
> To add a rant to the subjective evaluation: For an installation I
> currently have to run Pd on a Mac.  We chose pd-extended as it has a
> good integration into OS-X, and as some of the other installations
> that will be shown on that machine need the externals pd-extended has
> included.
>
> I don't need many externals, but the most important one isn't missing
> in pd-extended: pdlua, but as a "hardcore user" I could install it.
>
> But here we stumbled over another important difference between 0.40
> and 0.41:
>
> EXTERN void class_set_extern_dir(t_symbol *s);
>
> was introduced to m_pd.h in 0.41, iirc. At least it's missing in 0.40.
>
> This function is used by pdlua to find lua-modules in the patch's
> directory instead of in the LUAPATH only, which becomes more important
> because it's overly complicated to start pd on OS-X (and on
> MS-Windows) from the command line in a certain working directory as
> I'm used to from Linux.
>
> Somehow I didn't manage to make the package.path trick work, which I
> myself suggested as a fix once on pd-list, so in the end we copied
> every lua-module to /usr/local/share/lua/5.1.
>
> As this installation involves 80-channel output, we also run jack, and
> cross our fingers that everything will hold up. In general I must say,
> working on the bloated OS-X is no joy for someone used to a snappy
> lean Linux system. If only the Fireface would support Linux...

Hear, hear!  I also recently had to use Mac OS X for an installation,  
that's why I wrote the "standalone app" generator.  But I missed  
using Debian.  It is so helpful to be able to uninstall every single  
piece of software that isn't necessary.  The NY Times installation is  
the perfect example: it was a Linux kernel, busybox, Python and Pd.   
And basically nothing else :D

.hc

>
> Rant end. ;)
>
> Ciao
> -- 
>  Frank Barknecht _  
> __footils.org__
>
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Re: [PD] Speed of messages (WII-OSC..etc)

2008-07-22 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner


On Jul 12, 2008, at 8:25 AM, Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:


Hi dear List

I have a question regarding my Wiimote-OSC experiments.

The wiimote data gets into PD via OSC, either through OSculator or  
through a linuxbox running the wiimote external.


So i have problems computing really really fast movements from the  
wiimote and i would like to ask if somebody knows about the speed  
of messages, be it in OSC, PD or Osculator



1) What do you think is a reasonable message-rate for fast motion- 
data ? I have the impression i need to slow down the data (with  
speedlim, pipe or resample) to be able to process it

 properly - any experience with that or recommendations ?


Pd can handle all of the data that the wiiremote sends, that is not a  
problem, unless you are on a machine that is 300MHz or less, then it  
might start to be too much.



2) What would you consider the bottleneck ?


Probably in the transmission rate and polling rate of bluetooth.

3) Could it be an advantage to transform incoming OSC-messages into  
a signal ? instead of dealing with floats ?


I doubt it.

The idea behind it is to combine x-y IR Data from the wii with the  
accelleration data (Mapping accelleration to velocity, but catch  
the note from the IR-Position)


Did anybody find a good solution for that ?


I'll bet there is code that does that already, but probably not in  
Pd.  For example, in one of Johnny Chung Lee's projects.  You could  
either grab some C code and make an external, or translate the code  
into Pd.


http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/projects/wii/

.hc



Thanks

Luigi



>---<

Luigi Rensinghoff
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
skype:gigischinke
ichat:gigicarlo




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Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
Roman Haefeli wrote:
> it is
> recommended to do your own counter, that only counts what really needs
> to be counted for your state saving.

Thanks for the advice, I'll take this route.

-- 
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Atte

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Re: [PD] Attempt at Tcl/Tk 8.5 Building

2008-07-22 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner

On Jul 21, 2008, at 6:23 PM, Luke Iannini wrote:

> Yo,
>
> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner  
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Seems like something crashing in Tcl/Tk, but that could still be Pd's
>> fault.  Sorry, I don't have any ideas beyond that.
> My best guess when I gave up was that Pd was still being run by an
> 8.4.7 wish process... looking through the relevant Pd source code it
> struck me as possible but I didn't confirm it for sure.  Is there a
> way to see the child processes being spawned by the Pd-extended
> executable?  I opened it via XCode's Instruments (aka gdb) but was
> overwhelmed quickly

There are two processes with Pd, the GUI and pd itself.  On Windows  
and GNU/Linux, the GUI is called 'pd-gui' and pd is called 'pd'.  On  
Mac OS X, the GUI is called 'Pd' for vanilla and 'Pd-extended' for Pd- 
extended, and pd is called 'pd'.  Here is how it looks on my machine:

Pd-extended:
/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd-extended -psn_0_32243713
/Applications/Pd-extended.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd - 
guiport 5600

Pd-vanilla:
/Applications/Pd-0.41-4.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd -psn_0_32374785
/Applications/Pd-0.41-4.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/../bin/pd - 
guiport 5601

.hc

>
>>
>> Any luck with this?  I find [EMAIL PROTECTED] and irc://
>> irc.freenode.net/tcl to both be quite helpful.
> Thanks for the TCL list/irc tip, I will go consult with them and see
> if I can get anywhere.
>
> Best
> Luke
>
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On Jul 12, 2008, at 10:27 PM, Luke Iannini wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I thought I might try to get a build going with Tcl/Tk 8.5 to check
>>> out the possible GUI speed improvements.
>>>
>>> Making darwin_app_core seems to build fine without any changes,  
>>> but I
>>> end up with a "Bus error" when try to run it (via the terminal) and
>>> the crash log is at the bottom of this email.
>>>
>>> I'm looking through http://wiki.tcl.tk/20361 but maybe someone has
>>> some immediate insight.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Luke
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Process: Pd-0.42.0-test3 [41336]
>>> Path:
>>> /Users/LukeIannini/PdSVN/packages/darwin_app/build/Pd-0.42.0-
>>> test3.app/Contents/MacOS/Pd-0.42.0-test3
>>> Identifier:  org.puredata.pd.wish
>>> Version: 0.42.0 (2008.07.12)
>>> Code Type:   X86 (Native)
>>> Parent Process:  launchd [123]
>>>
>>> Date/Time:   2008-07-12 19:16:52.650 -0700
>>> OS Version:  Mac OS X 10.5.4 (9E17)
>>> Report Version:  6
>>>
>>> Exception Type:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGBUS)
>>> Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x
>>> Crashed Thread:  0
>>>
>>> Thread 0 Crashed:
>>> 0   ???   00 0 + 0
>>> 1   com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x09ec5460  
>>> TclpThreadDataKeyGet
>>> + 16
>>> 2   com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x09ec445c  
>>> Tcl_GetThreadData + 19
>>> 3   com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x09eab7ea TclFreeObj + 105
>>> 4   com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x09ed1cf9 Tcl_GetVar2Ex + 108
>>> 5   com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x09ed1d40 Tcl_GetVar2 + 38
>>> 6   com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x09ed1d7f Tcl_GetVar + 39
>>> 7   libPdTcl.dylib0x0992f8eb Pdtcl_Init + 43
>>> (t_tkcmd.c:622)
>>> 8   com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x0a07107f Tcl_LoadObjCmd +  
>>> 2305
>>> 9   com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x0a00e279  
>>> TclEvalObjvInternal +
>>> 716
>>> 10  com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x0a04a1e2  
>>> TclExecuteByteCode +
>>> 4490
>>> 11  com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x0a052e23 TclCompEvalObj +  
>>> 154
>>> 12  com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x0a0113de TclEvalObjEx + 1025
>>> 13  com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x0a018636 Tcl_IfObjCmd + 786
>>> 14  com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x0a00e279  
>>> TclEvalObjvInternal +
>>> 716
>>> 15  com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x0a010a2a TclEvalEx + 1728
>>> 16  com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x0a010d8c Tcl_EvalEx + 46
>>> 17  com.tcltk.tcllibrary  0x0a06cc61 Tcl_FSEvalFileEx  
>>> + 616
>>> 18  com.tcltk.tklibrary   0x0b01f079 Tk_MainEx + 1680
>>> 19  org.puredata.pd.wish  0x000112df main + 41
>>> 20  org.puredata.pd.wish  0x0001125e _start + 228  
>>> (crt.c:272)
>>> 21  org.puredata.pd.wish  0x00011179 start + 41
>>>
>>> Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (32-bit):
>>>   eax: 0xa0976fa0  ebx: 0x09ec52f3  ecx: 0x4d555458  edx: 0x09efd200
>>>   edi: 0x  esi: 0x0058  ebp: 0xbfffe828  esp: 0xbfffe7cc
>>>ss: 0x001f  efl: 0x00010282  eip: 0x   cs: 0x0017
>>>ds: 0x001f   es: 0x001f   fs: 0x   gs: 0x0037
>>>   cr2: 0x
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> - 
>> ---
>> 
>>
>>   

[PD] how should namespaces work WAS: Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released

2008-07-22 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner

On Jul 22, 2008, at 12:43 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:

> Hallo,
> Chris McCormick hat gesagt: // Chris McCormick wrote:
>
>> In Python you can also say:
>>
> from math import sin
> sin(0.5)
>> 0.47942553860420301
>>
>> or even
>>
> from math import *
>>
>> so for your examples you'd say:
>>
>> from communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word import *
>> and
>> leave
>>
>> The reason for this is that if you import absolutely everything into
>> your global namespace by default, you pollute it and cause  
>> conflicts and
>> name clashes. > This has been discussed several times on the list  
>> and is a
>> terrible idea. This has also been solved 100% by languages like  
>> Python
>> already, as illustrated by Frank above.
>
> I think, another issue is what Pd should be like: more like Python
> with it's huge set of builtin, importable libraries or more like Lua
> with a very small core of just the necessary tools to get things
> running. As my example showed, in Python *everything* has to be
> imported except the builtin operators. In Lua you can directly call
> "math.sin(x)" without importing. But in Lua, you cannot import
> "xml.sax.xmlreader.IncrementalParser" as in Python, because Lua
> doesn't ship with such things.
>
> Pd-extended obviously has the Python model in mind, while I would
> prefer a more minimalistic, Lua-like Pd, as the latter is much easier
> to maintain, especially with a chaotic artsy community like ours.
>
> Then there are other problems: I don't think, there's an "import" or
> "require" for Pd, that works. AFAICT there's not even an agreement on
> how it *should* work (see the "declare -path" discussion). Before such
> an agreement is reached, code is fruitless. Even dangerous, as it
> adds more variables to consider when making decisions.

I think python may be a bit too strict  I think [math/sin] should  
always work without having to import (so I guess that's like Lua).   
To me a key difference between the Python and Lua approaches are a  
matter of scale.  Python aims to be a platform for programs of any  
size.  Lua aims for small scale programming and even just configuration.

As for included libraries, what is most important to me is to reduce  
the time spent reinventing the wheel, and then also installing and  
managing libraries.  When many libraries are included, then you spend  
much less time reinventing the wheel and managing libraries.  But it  
means more work for the developers.  If we can figure out how to  
better distribute the work, then Pd-extended will work better.

.hc


>
> Ciao
> -- 
>  Frank Barknecht _  
> __footils.org__
>
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Re: [PD] aka.wiiremote now gets data with bangs

2008-07-22 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner


There are already GNU/Linux and Windows objects for Pd:

GNU/Linux: http://mikewoz.com/index.php?page=pd-stuff
Windows: http://code.google.com/p/wiisense/


.hc


On Jul 22, 2008, at 2:11 PM, Hugh Sung wrote:

Thanks for working on this!  Any chance that you will be developing  
a version for PC users?  I'd love to incorporate the wii in future  
projects!


On 7/22/08, Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I made a little progress with the aka.wiiremote port for Mac OS X.
You can now get the accelerometer data using bangs.  It seems that
not much else works though.  Try it out and see what you can do with
it.  It's compiled as a universal binary:

http://at.or.at/hans/pd/objects.html

.hc


-- 
--



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related to the telescope.  -Edsger Dykstra



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Re: [PD] is $0 the same on every load?

2008-07-22 Thread Roman Haefeli
On Tue, 2008-07-22 at 22:37 +0200, Atte André Jensen wrote:
> Hi
> 
> Can I expect $0 to always be the same in a given abstraction every time 
> I load a patch?
> 
> The reason I ask, is I'd like to use $0 as an unique identifier together 
> with sssad...


from my experience: yeah, if you open your patches in the exact same
order, then all $0 are the same.

BUT:
it is not documented anywhere, how $0 behaves in detail. it might be
possible, that in a future versions of pd it starts counting from
another value than 1000 (which is a pretty arbitrary decision anyway).
DON'T rely on it. also i don't think, that it is a good idea to force
yourself to open your patches always in the same order. your system will
fail, as soon as you edit your patch only in the slightiest way. it is
recommended to do your own counter, that only counts what really needs
to be counted for your state saving.

roman




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[PD] is $0 the same on every load?

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
Hi

Can I expect $0 to always be the same in a given abstraction every time 
I load a patch?

The reason I ask, is I'd like to use $0 as an unique identifier together 
with sssad...

-- 
peace, love & harmony
Atte

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http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk

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Re: [PD] pd clicking with jack/linux

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
Julian Peterson wrote:

> I am getting the exact same issue mentioned by Atte Jensen.  Was
> there ever a solution?

I looked hard at my system and finally figured out it was the wlan. This 
surprises me since on the same machine I have debian running with no 
problem with realtime audio/wlan. Actually I'm just looking for a an 
excuse to switch back to debian, since I'm rather disappointed with 
ubuntu, but that's another story.

So I just included removal of the wlan (kernel module and all) in my 
realtime-stuff-script in /etc/init.d and things work just fine now.

> Atte-- are you running 64bit ubuntu?

Nope, 32 ubuntu with hand compiled/mingo-patched kernel.

-- 
peace, love & harmony
Atte

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http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
Frank Barknecht wrote:

> Pd-extended obviously has the Python model in mind, while I would
> prefer a more minimalistic, Lua-like Pd,

A really nice thing in python is that it comes with batteries included. 
You might have to import something from a lib, but it's always there on 
any platform.

For a beginner like me, something similar with pd makes it easier to get 
started...

-- 
peace, love & harmony
Atte

http://atte.dk   | http://myspace.com/attejensen
http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk

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Re: [PD] pd clicking with jack/linux

2008-07-22 Thread Julian Peterson
Hello list.

I am getting the exact same issue mentioned by Atte Jensen.  Was there ever a 
solution?  I've already tried all of the typical optimizations: rt-kernel, 
rt-priorities straight, tinkering with jack settings, etc.  I get this even 
with the built-in test audio/midi patch.

Atte-- are you running 64bit ubuntu?

Thanks,
JP

"
Hi

I get clicks and "DIO errors" at random intervals under linux/ubuntu 
with jack (no xruns). I have a 17ms latency setup with jack and a 
realtime patched kernel and the rest of my audio setup works great with 
jack.

I installed pd from Pd-0.40.3-extended-20080628-ubuntu-gutsy-i386.deb

Any one else running a similar pd with a similar setup and either have 
it working or experience the same problems?

-- 
peace, love & harmony
Atte

http://atte.dk   | http://myspace.com/attejensen
http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk

"

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[PD] Ram disk script for OS X (was Re: saving state of a patch)

2008-07-22 Thread Phil Stone
Hi,

Enrique Erne wrote:
> Phil Stone wrote:
>> Hi Atte,
>>
>> Now that you're on your way with sssad, there's a nice trick you 
>> should know.  If you find that loading a preset causes dropouts, 
>> consider using a ram disk to hold your presets during performance.  
>> This solved all my dropout problems, and it's easy to do (I can post 
>> a script for OS X if anyone wants it).
>
>
> Hi Phil
>
> yes please post the script.
>
> thanks
> eni
>


OK.  Most of this script is error checking; three lines do all the real 
work.

This creates the ram disk as a volume called "RamDisk".  You can change 
that name, if you like, by editing the line that begins with "DISK_NAME=..."


#!/bin/bash
#echo "Creating ramdisk..."
if [ -n "$2" ]; then ARG_ERR=ERR; fi
if [ -z "$1" ]; then ARG_ERR=ERR; fi
if [ -n "$ARG_ERR" ];
then
echo 1 argument: size in MB
exit
fi

MB_SIZE=$1
let "MB_SIZE *= 2048"
echo Creating ${MB_SIZE} 512-blocks ramdisk
CREATED_RAMDISK=`hdiutil attach -nomount ram://${MB_SIZE}`
echo New block device: ${CREATED_RAMDISK}

DISK_NAME="RamDisk"
echo Creating volume with label: ${DISK_NAME}
newfs_hfs -v ${DISK_NAME} ${CREATED_RAMDISK}
echo Mounting in /Volumes/${DISK_NAME}
diskutil mount ${CREATED_RAMDISK}

exit 0
___

In my case, I call this from another script, which copies the presets I 
need into the ram disk:



#!/bin/bash
# Create a 2M ramdisk:
~/ramdisk 2

# Copy music data to it
cp -R ~/PD_Patches/Presets/ /Volumes/RamDisk/Presets/
cp -R ~/PD_Patches/Presets_Meta/ /Volumes/RamDisk/Presets_Meta/
cp -R ~/PD_Patches/Scales/ /Volumes/RamDisk/Scales/
exit 0
_


Note that this works well for presets, and would probably be okay with 
small sound files.  However, all that's really happening is that the 
load time is shorter because of faster access to ram as opposed to hard 
drive.  If you load a big enough file, even from ram disk, and it takes 
longer than one dsp cycle to load, you'll still get dropouts.


Phil Stone
pkstonemusic.com



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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released

2008-07-22 Thread Frank Barknecht
Hallo,
Chris McCormick hat gesagt: // Chris McCormick wrote:

> In Python you can also say:
> 
> >>> from math import sin
> >>> sin(0.5)
> 0.47942553860420301
> 
> or even
> 
> >>> from math import *
> 
> so for your examples you'd say:
> 
> from communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word import *
> and
> leave
> 
> The reason for this is that if you import absolutely everything into
> your global namespace by default, you pollute it and cause conflicts and
> name clashes. > This has been discussed several times on the list and is a
> terrible idea. This has also been solved 100% by languages like Python
> already, as illustrated by Frank above.

I think, another issue is what Pd should be like: more like Python
with it's huge set of builtin, importable libraries or more like Lua
with a very small core of just the necessary tools to get things
running. As my example showed, in Python *everything* has to be
imported except the builtin operators. In Lua you can directly call
"math.sin(x)" without importing. But in Lua, you cannot import
"xml.sax.xmlreader.IncrementalParser" as in Python, because Lua
doesn't ship with such things.

Pd-extended obviously has the Python model in mind, while I would
prefer a more minimalistic, Lua-like Pd, as the latter is much easier
to maintain, especially with a chaotic artsy community like ours.

Then there are other problems: I don't think, there's an "import" or
"require" for Pd, that works. AFAICT there's not even an agreement on
how it *should* work (see the "declare -path" discussion). Before such
an agreement is reached, code is fruitless. Even dangerous, as it
adds more variables to consider when making decisions.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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[PD] aka.wiiremote now gets data with bangs

2008-07-22 Thread Hans-Christoph Steiner

I made a little progress with the aka.wiiremote port for Mac OS X.   
You can now get the accelerometer data using bangs.  It seems that  
not much else works though.  Try it out and see what you can do with  
it.  It's compiled as a universal binary:

http://at.or.at/hans/pd/objects.html

.hc


 


Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is  
related to the telescope.  -Edsger Dykstra



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Re: [PD] bcr2000 and midi-feedback

2008-07-22 Thread Jason Plumb
 > The problem is that pd sends it's send-symbol, even if the fader is
 > moved as a result of the receive-symbol. This means that the bcr get's
 > the value right back, with a small delay, which causes the whole to be
 > very reluctent to accept movements from the bcr.

I had to solve a similar problem in a few patches with my bcr2000, so I 
wrote a few small "helper" abstractions.  I wanted to be able to move 
the controller and have it update a UI element in pd, and vice versa -- 
and I needed them to be in sync all the time.  You can get these two 
abstractions here:
http://noisybox.net/computers/pd/ctrl_sync.pd
http://noisybox.net/computers/pd/nrpn_sync.pd

They basically encapsulate the logic around spigot as Luigi suggested. 
Input the signal from a UI element (slider/ui/etc) into the top and feed 
back the control output back to the UI element.  They're simple, so you 
should hopefully be able to extend them easily.  They're a little stupid 
in that they assume a control range with 0 at the low end...but they 
helped clean up some patches and keep things in sync.

-jason

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released

2008-07-22 Thread Chris McCormick
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 09:56:58AM -0400, marius schebella wrote:
> >>Frank Barknecht wrote:
> >>>$ python
> >>>Python 2.4.4c0 (#2, Jul 30 2006, 15:43:58) 
> >>>[GCC 4.1.2 20060715 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-9)] on linux2
> >>>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
> >>sin(0.5)
> >>>Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>>  File "", line 1, in ?
> >>>NameError: name 'sin' is not defined
> >>math.sin(0.5)
> >>>Traceback (most recent call last):
> >>>  File "", line 1, in ?
> >>>NameError: name 'math' is not defined
> >>import math
> >>math.sin(0.5)
> >>>0.47942553860420301
> 
> as opposed to a philosophical one, where I have to explain every word.
> communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.and 
> communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.leave

In Python you can also say:

>>> from math import sin
>>> sin(0.5)
0.47942553860420301

or even

>>> from math import *

so for your examples you'd say:

from communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word import *
and
leave

The reason for this is that if you import absolutely everything into
your global namespace by default, you pollute it and cause conflicts and
name clashes. This has been discussed several times on the list and is a
terrible idea. This has also been solved 100% by languages like Python
already, as illustrated by Frank above.

Things like [bang] are core types of the language and should probably be
imported into the global namespace by default.

Best,

Chris.

---
http://mccormick.cx

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Re: [PD] freehand drawing on video in GEM

2008-07-22 Thread Spencer Russell
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 9:42 AM, Jack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Le 22 juil. 08 à 02:10, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :
>
> Single buffered drawing won't work with what he is describing, unless he
> repaints all of the brush strokes.  When a new video frame is drawn, it will
> overwrite everything.  This can be worked around by playing with the Z
> values though...set the video to draw behind the brush strokes and then make
> sure that you do Z writes for the brushes.  However, you won't be able to do
> alpha with this...
>
> Yes Mark, this the first patch join to this mail (paintandvideo.pd).
>

paintandvideo.pd is exactly what I needed. Thanks Jack! I guess I was
still fuzzy on how the buffering works, because I didn't realize that
you could render something behind something else in single-buffer
mode.

-spencer

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Re: [PD] bcr2000 and midi-feedback

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
kristof lauwers wrote:

> You can set the value of the slider without having it sent back with 
> a 'set' message

Thanks alot, exactly what I was looking for.

-- 
peace, love & harmony
Atte

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http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk

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Re: [PD] bcr2000 and midi-feedback

2008-07-22 Thread Luigi Rensinghoff

thats cool

i didn know/never used that



Am 22.07.2008 um 15:50 schrieb kristof lauwers:


Hi,

You can set the value of the slider without having it sent back with
a 'set' message

[ctlin 1]
|
[/127]
|
[set $1(
|
[s rec]

cheers,
Kristof



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://kristoflauwers.domainepublic.net
http://myspace.com/xofxof


At 15:31 2008-07-22, you wrote:


Hi

I have assigned a knob on my bcr2000 to a vertical slider in pd.  
Under

the sliders properties, I have set send-symbol and receive-symbol to
"send" and "rec". I then have

[ctlin 1]
|
[/ 127]
|
[s rec]


[r send]
|
[* 127]
|
[ctlout 1]

This basically works, the upper one is receiving from the bcr and  
moving
the fader in pd, the lower one is updating the display on the bcr  
when

the knob is moved in pd.

The problem is that pd sends it's send-symbol, even if the fader is
moved as a result of the receive-symbol. This means that the bcr  
get's
the value right back, with a small delay, which causes the whole  
to be

very reluctent to accept movements from the bcr.

I could make some logic that doesn't send the value back if it was
received from midi, but thought I'd ask if there was a simpler  
solution?

For instance is it possible to have pd's knobs *not* send it's
send-symbol if the fader was moved as a result of a receive-symbol?

--
peace, love & harmony
Atte

http://atte.dk   | http://myspace.com/attejensen
http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk

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>---<

Luigi Rensinghoff
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
skype:gigischinke
ichat:gigicarlo




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Re: [PD] bcr2000 and midi-feedback

2008-07-22 Thread IOhannes m zmoelnig
Atte André Jensen wrote:
> Hi

> 
> This basically works, the upper one is receiving from the bcr and moving 
> the fader in pd, the lower one is updating the display on the bcr when 
> the knob is moved in pd.
> 
> The problem is that pd sends it's send-symbol, even if the fader is 

i doubt that Pd sends it's send-symbol

> moved as a result of the receive-symbol. This means that the bcr get's 
> the value right back, with a small delay, which causes the whole to be 
> very reluctent to accept movements from the bcr.
> 
> I could make some logic that doesn't send the value back if it was 
> received from midi, but thought I'd ask if there was a simpler solution? 
> For instance is it possible to have pd's knobs *not* send it's 
> send-symbol if the fader was moved as a result of a receive-symbol?
> 



anyhow, under the link below [1] is the abstraction that we use in our 
CUBEmixer-application in order to interact with midi (using 
behringer-sh!t) among other things.

use it like

[ctlin 1]
|
[sendreceive send]
|
[ctlout 0]


[r bla]
|
[ \


the abstraction depends on iemlib2 in order to have settable 
sends/receives but if you don't want this, just replace it by ordinary 
[s]/[r].


fgmasdr.
IOhannes


[1] 
https://iem.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/iem/spatialization/CUBEmixer/trunk/lib/abs/sendreceive.pd

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Re: [PD] bcr2000 and midi-feedback

2008-07-22 Thread Luigi Rensinghoff


Am 22.07.2008 um 15:31 schrieb Atte André Jensen:


Hi

I have assigned a knob on my bcr2000 to a vertical slider in pd. Under
the sliders properties, I have set send-symbol and receive-symbol to
"send" and "rec". I then have

[ctlin 1]
|
[/ 127]
|
[s rec]


[r send]
|
[* 127]
|
[ctlout 1]

This basically works, the upper one is receiving from the bcr and  
moving

the fader in pd, the lower one is updating the display on the bcr when
the knob is moved in pd.

The problem is that pd sends it's send-symbol, even if the fader is
moved as a result of the receive-symbol. This means that the bcr get's
the value right back, with a small delay, which causes the whole to be
very reluctent to accept movements from the bcr.

I could make some logic that doesn't send the value back if it was
received from midi, but thought I'd ask if there was a simpler  
solution?


i cant think of any

probably you need to pit the send and receive out of the slider and  
do something


with "t b b" and "spigot"...

but that would be what you call the "logic"

cheers luigi


For instance is it possible to have pd's knobs *not* send it's
send-symbol if the fader was moved as a result of a receive-symbol?

--
peace, love & harmony
Atte

http://atte.dk   | http://myspace.com/attejensen
http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk

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>---<

Luigi Rensinghoff
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
skype:gigischinke
ichat:gigicarlo




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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released

2008-07-22 Thread marius schebella
Ico Doornekamp wrote:
> 
> * On 2008-07-22 marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote  :
> 
>> Frank Barknecht wrote:
>>> Hallo,
>>> Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>>
 The grand plan is to have no libraries loaded by default.  Then the  
 library configuration would be completely embedded in the patch, like  
 python does with import.
>>>
>>> $ python
>>> Python 2.4.4c0 (#2, Jul 30 2006, 15:43:58) 
>>> [GCC 4.1.2 20060715 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-9)] on linux2
>>> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>> sin(0.5)
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File "", line 1, in ?
>>> NameError: name 'sin' is not defined
>> math.sin(0.5)
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>   File "", line 1, in ?
>>> NameError: name 'math' is not defined
>> import math
>> math.sin(0.5)
>>> 0.47942553860420301
>>>
>>> Ciao
>> is this a good idea? pd comes with a set of tools, I don't see a reason 
>> why I should import [bang] before I can use it. I (don't) want to be 
>> treated like a child in a sandpit here:
>> "mummy, can I have the shovel?"
>> "say please"
>> "please can I have the shovel?"
>> "you know, my darling, this shovel is from toys "r" us... can you say, 
>> mummy please can I have the shovel from toys "r" us?"
>> "please can I have the shovel from toys "r" us?"
>> "cutie! say thank you"
>> "thank you"
>> "kiss mummy!"
>> kiss...
>> marius.
> 
> Or the other version:
> 
> "mummy, can I have the shovel"
> "which shovel, dear, the red one or the blue one"
> "the blue one"
> "here you are dear"
> 
> Next time, you'll learn to ask for one of the specific shovels right
> away: red/shovel or blue/shovel.

no, there is only one shovel, if I want to change the color, I send it a 
message [color 13(. The above examples are bad schoolmasterly ways of 
doing it. to me these conceptual and programming decisions are backround 
informations that I don't want to hassle with as a user.
pushing the decision blue.shovel vs. red.shovel to the user is imho 
conservative and uncreative. and btw any categorisation system is 
outdated/wrong in so many cases.
I want to see pd more as a colloquial language that I can actually use, 
as opposed to a philosophical one, where I have to explain every word.
communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.I 
communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.will
communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.pack
communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.my
communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.us-corporate.apple.macbookpro.laptop
 
communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.and 
communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.leave
communication.human.writtenlanguage.english.word.time.now.

marius.

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Re: [PD] bcr2000 and midi-feedback

2008-07-22 Thread kristof lauwers
Hi,

You can set the value of the slider without having it sent back with 
a 'set' message

[ctlin 1]
|
[/127]
|
[set $1(
|
[s rec]

cheers,
Kristof



[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://kristoflauwers.domainepublic.net
http://myspace.com/xofxof


At 15:31 2008-07-22, you wrote:

>Hi
>
>I have assigned a knob on my bcr2000 to a vertical slider in pd. Under
>the sliders properties, I have set send-symbol and receive-symbol to
>"send" and "rec". I then have
>
>[ctlin 1]
>|
>[/ 127]
>|
>[s rec]
>
>
>[r send]
>|
>[* 127]
>|
>[ctlout 1]
>
>This basically works, the upper one is receiving from the bcr and moving
>the fader in pd, the lower one is updating the display on the bcr when
>the knob is moved in pd.
>
>The problem is that pd sends it's send-symbol, even if the fader is
>moved as a result of the receive-symbol. This means that the bcr get's
>the value right back, with a small delay, which causes the whole to be
>very reluctent to accept movements from the bcr.
>
>I could make some logic that doesn't send the value back if it was
>received from midi, but thought I'd ask if there was a simpler solution?
>For instance is it possible to have pd's knobs *not* send it's
>send-symbol if the fader was moved as a result of a receive-symbol?
>
>--
>peace, love & harmony
>Atte
>
>http://atte.dk   | http://myspace.com/attejensen
>http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk
>
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[PD] script.lua (in pdmtl abs)

2008-07-22 Thread Alexandre Quessy
Hello,
I think I forgot to mention that I created a nice abstraction wrapper
for [lua] and [luax]. It defaults to opening a *.pd_luax, but you can
open a *.pd_lua by providing it the argument @luax 0. It is in the
PdMtlAbstractions. Any comments welcome.

Cheers,

-- 
Alexandre Quessy
http://alexandre.quessy.net
http://www.puredata.info/Members/aalex

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Re: [PD] freehand drawing on video in GEM

2008-07-22 Thread Jack

Le 22 juil. 08 à 02:10, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit :Single buffered drawing won't work with what he is describing, unless he repaints all of the brush strokes.  When a new video frame is drawn, it will overwrite everything.  This can be worked around by playing with the Z values though...set the video to draw behind the brush strokes and then make sure that you do Z writes for the brushes.  However, you won't be able to do alpha with this... Yes Mark, this the first patch join to this mail (paintandvideo.pd). The best way to do this would be to either cache the brushes or renderer the brushes to another render target with alpha.  Then draw the video frame and draw the brush over top.  You could also hand render the brushes to a texture with alpha and then just draw the quad.  I don't know what the current set of GEM objects is though, so these 2 ideas might require creating some new objects. A dynamic system (heavy) in the second patch (paintandvideobuf0.pd) with 2 abstraction mycircle and my curve. I will try with texture next time.++Jack

mycircle.pd
Description: Binary data


paintandvideo.pd
Description: Binary data


mycurve.pd
Description: Binary data


paintandvideobuf0.pd
Description: Binary data
 Mark   Jack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]07/21/2008 05:04 PM To "Spencer Russell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   cc pd-list@iem.at   Subject Re: [PD] freehand drawing on video in GEM As suggested by Chris, single buffer rendering is the good choice.   Then send a bang from [metro 1] (for exemple) to [gemhead] to force   the rendering (to your [gemhead] with the movie and to your [gemhead]   for the 'painting'). ++  Jack   Le 21 juil. 08 à 23:51, Spencer Russell a écrit :  > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 5:28 PM, chris clepper   > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Single buffer rendering can be used for 'painting' using a geos as   >> various >> brush types. > > The difficulty though, is that I want to draw some parts in a freehand > single-buffer style, but I want it to be mixed and layered with video > that's drawn normally. > > thanks, > spencer > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/  > listinfo/pd-list   ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list   ___
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[PD] bcr2000 and midi-feedback

2008-07-22 Thread Atte André Jensen
Hi

I have assigned a knob on my bcr2000 to a vertical slider in pd. Under 
the sliders properties, I have set send-symbol and receive-symbol to 
"send" and "rec". I then have

[ctlin 1]
|
[/ 127]
|
[s rec]


[r send]
|
[* 127]
|
[ctlout 1]

This basically works, the upper one is receiving from the bcr and moving 
the fader in pd, the lower one is updating the display on the bcr when 
the knob is moved in pd.

The problem is that pd sends it's send-symbol, even if the fader is 
moved as a result of the receive-symbol. This means that the bcr get's 
the value right back, with a small delay, which causes the whole to be 
very reluctent to accept movements from the bcr.

I could make some logic that doesn't send the value back if it was 
received from midi, but thought I'd ask if there was a simpler solution? 
For instance is it possible to have pd's knobs *not* send it's 
send-symbol if the fader was moved as a result of a receive-symbol?

-- 
peace, love & harmony
Atte

http://atte.dk   | http://myspace.com/attejensen
http://anagrammer.dk | http://modlys.dk

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released

2008-07-22 Thread Ico Doornekamp


* On 2008-07-22 marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote  :

> Frank Barknecht wrote:
> > Hallo,
> > Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> > 
> >> The grand plan is to have no libraries loaded by default.  Then the  
> >> library configuration would be completely embedded in the patch, like  
> >> python does with import.
> > 
> > 
> > $ python
> > Python 2.4.4c0 (#2, Jul 30 2006, 15:43:58) 
> > [GCC 4.1.2 20060715 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-9)] on linux2
> > Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>  sin(0.5)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "", line 1, in ?
> > NameError: name 'sin' is not defined
>  math.sin(0.5)
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "", line 1, in ?
> > NameError: name 'math' is not defined
>  import math
>  math.sin(0.5)
> > 0.47942553860420301
> > 
> > Ciao
> 
> is this a good idea? pd comes with a set of tools, I don't see a reason 
> why I should import [bang] before I can use it. I (don't) want to be 
> treated like a child in a sandpit here:
> "mummy, can I have the shovel?"
> "say please"
> "please can I have the shovel?"
> "you know, my darling, this shovel is from toys "r" us... can you say, 
> mummy please can I have the shovel from toys "r" us?"
> "please can I have the shovel from toys "r" us?"
> "cutie! say thank you"
> "thank you"
> "kiss mummy!"
> kiss...
> marius.

Or the other version:

"mummy, can I have the shovel"
"which shovel, dear, the red one or the blue one"
"the blue one"
"here you are dear"

Next time, you'll learn to ask for one of the specific shovels right
away: red/shovel or blue/shovel.

-- 
:wq
^X^Cy^K^X^C^C^C^C

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released

2008-07-22 Thread marius schebella
Frank Barknecht wrote:
> Hallo,
> Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
>> The grand plan is to have no libraries loaded by default.  Then the  
>> library configuration would be completely embedded in the patch, like  
>> python does with import.
> 
> 
> $ python
> Python 2.4.4c0 (#2, Jul 30 2006, 15:43:58) 
> [GCC 4.1.2 20060715 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-9)] on linux2
> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 sin(0.5)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name 'sin' is not defined
 math.sin(0.5)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in ?
> NameError: name 'math' is not defined
 import math
 math.sin(0.5)
> 0.47942553860420301
> 
> Ciao

is this a good idea? pd comes with a set of tools, I don't see a reason 
why I should import [bang] before I can use it. I (don't) want to be 
treated like a child in a sandpit here:
"mummy, can I have the shovel?"
"say please"
"please can I have the shovel?"
"you know, my darling, this shovel is from toys "r" us... can you say, 
mummy please can I have the shovel from toys "r" us?"
"please can I have the shovel from toys "r" us?"
"cutie! say thank you"
"thank you"
"kiss mummy!"
kiss...
marius.

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Re: [PD] pd, ubuntu 8.04, jack

2008-07-22 Thread patrick
hi,

i have no problem using ubuntu 8.04 - 32bit - jack - pd. be sure to 
tweak jack (use qjackctl - setup...). Realtime, Buffer 256 for example. 
start pd with -rt - jack - sudo chmod +s /usr/local/bin/pd (be careful).

is it working better?
pat



Julian Peterson wrote:
> Hello pd-ers.
>
> I'm having difficulties getting reliable performance out of pd with jack 
> on latest ubuntu and am looking for advice.  I have tried the pd version 
> from ubuntu repositories and a build from latest vanilla sources (from 
> M.P.'s site) and get the same behavior:
>
> 1) Pd works great with ALSA.
> 2) Jack works great with all other jack-apps.
> 3) Pd audio clicks and drops very frequently when using jack.
>
> I'm on 64bit ubuntu.
>
> Thanks,
> Julian
>
>
>
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>   


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Re: [PD] saving state of a patch

2008-07-22 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Luigi Rensinghoff wrote:
> because of "prepend" - "list prepend" ??
prepend should be deprecated, as it can be implemented in pure-pd 
language (with list & route objects)

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Re: [PD] standalone apps WAS: make money not art

2008-07-22 Thread raul diaz
H...cool!

The standalone app option for Mac OS X sounds great!
I like to know *.bat is the best way for standalone app for Windows (I
expected there was a better way).

Saludos!


2008/7/21 Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>
> Because app packages are so different for each platform, it wouldn't really
> be feasible to make one Pd app format for all platforms.  It seems for
> Windows that .bat is the best way.  WIth the soon-to-be-released Pd-extended
> version on Mac OS X, you can make an standalone app from the "File" menu.  I
> am now sketching out how to do this for Debian.  Basically, it would make a
> .deb package out of your patches and set up a .desktop file for things like
> a shortcut in the Applications menu and automatically configure the
> dependencies.
>
> .hc
>
>
> On Jul 20, 2008, at 7:43 AM, raul diaz wrote:
>
> Hi List!
>
> Sorry for the delayed answer...
>
> I find really interesting marius' topic.
> I was fighting with standalone application with processing+pd, but I only
> made a *.bat file which runs processing executable and pd. This *.bat allows
> to specify any pd configurations (audio rate, libraries, gui/nogui, etc..).
> But the problem of this kind of standalone based on bat file is that is
> only available for windows.
>
> I haven't knowledge on binaries packages and distributions for different
> OS.
> But I suposse some people on this list would have some experience with this
> kind of binary data and distributions, and I would like to know its opinion
> about possibilities for pd+gem or pd+processing standalone applications.
>
> That's a wonderfull way to build really interesting sound applications with
> friendly and nice interfaces.
>
> I'll wait for your ideas!
>
> Saludos!
>
>
>
> 2008/7/10 Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>
>> On Jul 7, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Enrique Erne wrote:
>>
>> > marius schebella wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >> has someone experience in distributing and probably selling pd
>> >> standalones? I was thinking of a combination of flash interface (or
>> >> Gem?) and sound patch.
>> >> right now I think the best way to do this would be to create an
>> >> executable application for every platform and architecture
>> >> including the
>> >> used external libraries. The patch would start up in -nogui mode,
>> >> although I am not sure how to handle sound settings from within the
>> >> application.
>> >
>> > hi marius
>> >
>> > i love the puredata&processing combunation that raul diaz has posted
>> > what do you think about that?
>> >
>> > http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2008-06/062706.html
>>
>>
>> That would also be a really cool example project for the SVG GUI
>> toolkit that was on this list a few days ago.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>>   ¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Raul Diaz Poblete
> *
> http://creaciodigital.upf.edu/~i50874/
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Barcelona [Spain]
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> 'You people have such restrictive dress for women,' she said, hobbling away
> in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp
> pool day.  - "Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf
>
>
>


-- 
Raul Diaz Poblete
*
http://creaciodigital.upf.edu/~i50874/

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Barcelona [Spain]
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.40.3-extended-rc2 released

2008-07-22 Thread Frank Barknecht
Hallo,
Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

> The grand plan is to have no libraries loaded by default.  Then the  
> library configuration would be completely embedded in the patch, like  
> python does with import.


$ python
Python 2.4.4c0 (#2, Jul 30 2006, 15:43:58) 
[GCC 4.1.2 20060715 (prerelease) (Debian 4.1.1-9)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> sin(0.5)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'sin' is not defined
>>> math.sin(0.5)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'math' is not defined
>>> import math
>>> math.sin(0.5)
0.47942553860420301
>>> 

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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