date:20110826

Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets

2011-08-26 Thread yvan volochine


On 08/26/2011 02:19 AM, András Murányi wrote:

Yeah and afaiu this is exactly the job that HC just started (see his
announcement below).
Yvan: in my simple understanding it goes like this: 1. getting rid of
tcl-specific code in pd c core 2. minimizing the communication between the
core and the gui (3. defining the api/protocol?) 4. anyone can go make all
sorts of guis for pd... at this point or later on vanilla may or may not
switch from tcl - imho it's to be decided when we're there


ah ok, thanks for the clarification.
doesn't look like an easy task indeed ;)

cheers,
_y

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Re: [PD] notes/questions from a beginner

2011-08-26 Thread IOhannes zmölnig

On 08/26/2011 01:04 AM, yvan volochine wrote:
 
 yeah, ALT+H 

Alt-H??
all systems i know use F1 for help, except apple which uses Cmd-?

 on a (keyboard) selected object would open its help file..
 that would be sweet =)

esp. when doing Ctrl-a, F1

fgmadr
IOhannes



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Re: [PD] multichannel instalation

2011-08-26 Thread IOhannes zmölnig

On 08/25/2011 09:14 PM, mark edward grimm wrote:
 just curious...
 
 channels; in the meantime, we regularily use Pd with 64 channels output;
 this is of course with some super soundcard,
 
 
 whats the hardware for this?
 

RME hdsp madi [1]

mfgasdr
IOhannes


[1] http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_madi.php



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Re: [PD] notes/questions from a beginner

2011-08-26 Thread yvan volochine


On 08/26/2011 10:37 AM, IOhannes zmölnig wrote:

On 08/26/2011 01:04 AM, yvan volochine wrote:


yeah, ALT+H


Alt-H??
all systems i know use F1 for help, except apple which uses Cmd-?


whatever shortcut is fine, the point is not having to use the mouse.


on a (keyboard) selected object would open its help file..
that would be sweet =)


esp. when doing Ctrl-a, F1


this would have to be checked of course ;)

cheers,
_y

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Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets

2011-08-26 Thread Joe White

Thought I'd just mention this as it seems to be on a similar topic.

For fun I was making a GUI interface for OSX with ZenGarden, a Pd runtime
library.

https://github.com/joewhite4/Zeng

It's not fully functional yet but you can open patches and mess around with
objects.

Just thought it might be of interest.

Cheers,
Joe

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 02:19:20 +0200
From: Andr?s Mur?nyi muran...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Message-ID:
CAJtGUK6F3R=Ev+iuvn-82gkux05-fMxTUan2+K5w4c2z5BSy=q...@mail.gmail.com

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Yeah and afaiu this is exactly the job that HC just started (see his
announcement below).
Yvan: in my simple understanding it goes like this: 1. getting rid of
tcl-specific code in pd c core 2. minimizing the communication between the
core and the gui (3. defining the api/protocol?) 4. anyone can go make all
sorts of guis for pd... at this point or later on vanilla may or may not
switch from tcl - imho it's to be decided when we're there

Andras

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 01:39, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote:

The pd/pd-gui divide is a little misleading-- there are lots of places in
the c code where there are sys_gui and sys_vgui calls with tcl in them,
plus
c code that probably assumes tcl is being used on the gui side.

You'll either need to write a wrapper for those calls, or modify a lot of
c
code and basically make a fork (iemguis, canvas stuff, etc.)

But even if you write a wrapper, there are still issues that will need to
be dealt with on the c side to minimize the number of messages passing
back
and forth between pd and gui. For example, there is one call per xlet to
the gui when an object gets instantiated/vis'd, plus drawing the border
and
text, rather than one call per object (and letting the gui deal with
where
to draw xlets, box width, font, etc.).

-Jonathan

--
*From:* yvan volochine yvan...@gmail.com

*To:* Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
*Cc:* Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com; pd-dev List pd-...@iem.at
*Sent:* Thursday, August 25, 2011 6:18 PM
*Subject:* Re: [PD-dev] tkwidgets

On 08/17/2011 08:54 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I've started a private git branch of
tkwidgets that I intent to push once I get somewhere with it. The idea
is to try out a new idea for how GUI objects can work. Basically, I
think I can make it so that Tcl handles more of the interaction with
the
user, minimizing on pd-gui -- pd communications, and making it easier
to write GUI objects. Its not trivial to do, but should be doable.

hiho

sorry for bumping in but what about giving up tcl-tk and go on with
something more modern (? la Qt), with a decent OO interface ?

I might miss the obvious as I'm new here but what about rewriting pd GUI
in
Qt ?
wouldn't it make more sense than spending time hacking on and on tcl-tk
code ?

my 0.001$
_y

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Re: [PD] receiving messages in [expr] ?

2011-08-26 Thread Thomas Grill



Am 26.08.2011 um 04:06 schrieb Chris McCormick:


On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:20:47PM +0200, Thomas Grill wrote:

Am 25.08.2011 um 19:40 schrieb Andrew Faraday:

you can't hear noise against noise :p


Interesting - but then again, what is noise?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse


Hmmm, i guess your point with the reference is that when perceiving  
one takes snapshots (measurements) of a statistical function (the wave  
function).
However, there are widespread methods to tell one statistical  
distribution (noise) from another one (noise).
See e.g. expectation maximization (EM) in (Gaussian) mixture models  
(GMM), a popular technique in Music Information Retrieval.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixture_model#Expectation_maximization_.28EM.29
Why shouldn't human listeners be able to maximize their expectations  
as well?


gr~~~


--
Thomas Grill
http://g.org
+43 699 19715543


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Re: [PD] notes/questions from a beginner

2011-08-26 Thread Jonathan Wilkes

- Original Message -
 From: yvan volochine yvan...@gmail.com
 To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at
 Cc: 
 Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 5:11 AM
 Subject: Re: [PD] notes/questions from a beginner

 On 08/26/2011 10:37 AM, IOhannes zmölnig wrote:
  On 08/26/2011 01:04 AM, yvan volochine wrote:

  yeah, ALT+H

  Alt-H??
  all systems i know use F1 for help, except apple which uses 
 Cmd-?

On most of the software I've used F1 is a shortcut for general help 
for the program-- not for specific results based on what happens to 
be selected inside the program.  Case in point: Supercollider, which 
has F1 for a help browser and some other key bindings for getting 
class help based on what's selected in the editor.

 whatever shortcut is fine, the point is not having to use the mouse.

  on a (keyboard) selected object would open its help file..
  that would be sweet =)

  esp. when doing Ctrl-a, F1

Which is a good reason why F1 usually doesn't give variable results based on 
the state of editor.

As for Control-a, Control-h, it could open all the help patches (similar 
to 
what Cmd-i does-- or at least did-- on a Mac).  

 this would have to be checked of course ;)

 cheers,
 _y

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Re: [PD] notes/questions from a beginner

2011-08-26 Thread Jonathan Wilkes

- Original Message -
 From: yvan volochine yvan...@gmail.com
 To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at
 Cc: 
 Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 5:11 AM
 Subject: Re: [PD] notes/questions from a beginner

 On 08/26/2011 10:37 AM, IOhannes zmölnig wrote:
  On 08/26/2011 01:04 AM, yvan volochine wrote:

  yeah, ALT+H

  Alt-H??
  all systems i know use F1 for help, except apple which uses 
 Cmd-?

 whatever shortcut is fine, the point is not having to use the mouse.

Please don't use F1 for this purpose.

  on a (keyboard) selected object would open its help file..
  that would be sweet =)

  esp. when doing Ctrl-a, F1

 this would have to be checked of course ;)

 cheers,
 _y

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Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets

2011-08-26 Thread Jonathan Wilkes

It might be a good idea to list the problems with tcl/tk so we can weigh them 
against the difficulty of using a different GUI toolkit.  The problems I see 
are:
* difficult to implement a decent zoom function for a canvas
* can't display png without the Img library (included in 8.6)

* can't do alpha transparency


Of the three I listed, I'm mostly interested in the first as it means that 
(without prior planning) it's hard to take a patch you've been working on at 
font size 10 and display it adequately over a projector, for example.  (If 
there's a work around I'd like to know it.)
I'd like to hear others, but I'm mostly interested in problems with tcl/tk = 
8.5 as the GUI.




From: András Murányi muran...@gmail.com
To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets


Yeah and afaiu this is exactly the job that HC just started (see his 
announcement below).
Yvan: in my simple understanding it goes like this: 1. getting rid of 
tcl-specific code in pd c core 2. minimizing the communication between the 
core and the gui (3. defining the api/protocol?) 4. anyone can go make all 
sorts of guis for pd... at this point or later on vanilla may or may not 
switch from tcl - imho it's to be decided when we're there

Andras


On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 01:39, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote:

The pd/pd-gui divide is a little misleading-- there are lots of places in the 
c code where there are sys_gui and sys_vgui calls with tcl in them, plus c 
code that probably assumes tcl is being used on the gui side.
You'll either need to write a wrapper for those calls, or modify a lot of c 
code and basically make a fork (iemguis, canvas stuff, etc.)

But even if you write a wrapper, there are still issues that will need to be 
dealt with on the c side to minimize the number of messages passing back and 
forth between pd and gui.  For example, there is one call per xlet to the gui 
when an object gets instantiated/vis'd, plus drawing the border and text, 
rather than one call per object (and letting the gui deal with where to draw 
xlets, box width, font,
 etc.).

-Jonathan



From: yvan volochine yvan...@gmail.com

To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
Cc: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com; pd-dev List pd-...@iem.at
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [PD-dev] tkwidgets


On 08/17/2011 08:54 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
 I've started a private git branch of
 tkwidgets
 that I intent to push once I get somewhere with it. The idea
 is to try out a new idea for how GUI objects can work. Basically, I
 think I can make it so that Tcl handles more of the interaction with the
 user, minimizing on pd-gui -- pd communications, and making it easier
 to write GUI objects. Its not trivial to do, but should be doable.

hiho

sorry for bumping in but what about giving up tcl-tk and go on with 
something more modern (à la Qt), with a decent OO interface ?

I might miss the obvious as I'm new here but what about rewriting pd GUI in 
Qt ?
wouldn't it make more sense than spending time hacking on and on tcl-tk code 
?

my 0.001$
_y





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[PD] [PD-announce] gem 0.93.0

2011-08-26 Thread IOhannes zmölnig

after long years of waiting (foir you) and hard labour (for me), Gem
0.93 has been released today.

large parts of the underlying engine have been re-written to give you a
better experience!


binaries are available for w32 (installer  zip), for the brave and
adventurous there is the source code.
binaries for OSX and not available yet, but we hope to get them online
soonish.

grab it while it's hot: http://gem.iem.at/releases/0.93.0

alternatively you can get the files from
https://sourceforge.net/projects/pd-gem


highlights
==

Objects
---
frei0r video plugins support

- [mesh], [surface3d],...
- [separator] now takes arguments to define which stacks to push/pop

documentation
-
- numerous bigfixes and improvements

extra
-
- [pix_fiducialtrack] is no more part of Gem (but comes bundled with Gem)
- [pix_artoolkit] fiducial tracking using ARToolKit
- [pix_drum], [pix_mano]: Jaime Olivier's analysis objects!


plugins
---
image acquisition is now factored out into plugins
this means that you can e.g. easily add new image acquisition methods to
the existing [pix_video], [pix_film] and [pix_image] objects

- still image loading/saving now uses plugins on all platforms
on w32 you can now use ImageMagick and/or QuickTime for loading/saving
images, which greatly increases the number of supported formats.
you now get programmatic feedback on image loading success...

- video acquisition now uses plugins on all platforms
uniform way to get or set properties/attributes/controls, like hue,
saturation, shutter-speed, pan,...
 working DV support (on linux)
 V4L also works with newer kernels (that dropped v4l)
 support for IIDC
 support for industrial grade GigE cameras using 3rd party libraries
such as PYLON, Halcon or AVT's PvAPI
 experimental UNICAP support

- film acquisition now uses plugins on all platforms (you could use
gmerlin on w32 or osx...)

- recording (film output) now uses plugins on all platforms
 support for V4L2 (and V4L) loopback devices, in order to generate a
fake live video from your Gem window - use itfor recording, streaming,...

settings

global  local settings files to modify the overall behaviour of Gem
you don't like Gem's default framerate, windowsize, font, texture
mode,...? change it once and for all

internals
-
- API: this is the first Gem with a public API: a selection of headers
that you can use to write your own Gem-plugins
build-system

- build system: completely switched to a proper autotools

- openGL: updated bundled GLEW

- source organization: re-organized the entire source tree for hopefully
better maintainability


lowlights
=
i need an OSX developer willing to spend some time in getting image
acquisition and windowing to work on OSX=10.6 (x86_64)


mfga,dsra
IOhannes



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