Re: [PD] Pd freezing on startup in ubuntu dapper
hi john without knowing the deeper details of and reasons for your problem i suggest the following: -try to run jack with your delta 1010LT -then try out, if any other application can use your soundcard over jack -if yes, then try 'pd -jack', so that pd connects to jack and then maybe you can use your soundcard without freezing. from my experience, i solved many problems concerning audiosoftware and soundcards by inserting 'the jack-layer' in between (on linux//debian/ubuntu and osx). hopefully it helps in your situation as well. cheers roman On Fri, 2006-11-03 at 20:16 -0600, John Harrison wrote: If I yank the M-audio Delta 1010LT card out of the machine, Pd runs fine. When I part the card back in, Pd freezes again. So the problem appears to be this M-audio card. The thing is...I Googled and searched this mailing list and it appears people use this card with Pd all the time with no problems. I need Pd and I need this M-audio card. What's my next step? Weird that the card would crash Pd even with this command: $ pd -nosound -noadc -nodac Thanks, -John John Harrison wrote: Pd is still completely freezing my ubuntu Dapper machine. I have tried recompiling with Pd 0.40.2 and still absolute and instant freeze. So I tried the suggestion below. The debugger reports: Starting program /usr/local/bin/pd [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] [New Thread -1211066688 (LWP 6400)] Then the machine is completely frozen again, so I have to pull the plug. I also tried editing /etc/hosts as was suggested here: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2005-07/029853.html and that didn't help either... I have used this on many ubuntu Dapper machines so I don't know what's so special about this one. Could it be the 2 dual-core Pentium Xeons? Could it be the M-audio Delta 1010LT card? When I run $ pd -verbose I get no response at all. Just the instantly frozen machine. And I have tried the various flags (-nrt -nomidi -nosound) and others... -John Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, John Harrison hat gesagt: // John Harrison wrote: I have now tried pd -nrt -nosound -nomidi and it was the same thing: complete computer freeze with even mouse and keyboard not responding, requiring me to pull the plug. I've tried both as root and not. Can you try to start Pd under a debugger? That is: $ gdb /usr/bin/pd (gdb) run and if Pd crashes and your machine is still alive try to catch a backtrace with: (gdb) bt Ciao ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] running PD from a USB stick / drive
On Mon, 2006-11-06 at 13:38 +, Demi Delirium wrote: well, initially i had thought simply run pd, not the os, i'm a winxp user most of the time, and i have various day-to-day apps, and processing(.org) running from a usb stick at the moment... on windows it should be really easy to run pd from a usb-drive/stick, since there are no other dependencies. just extract pd to the stick. then i'd recommend to write all options into a .bat-file and start pd from that file. using file-startup and file-path will write the options to the registry, which isn't saved to the usb stick. also, i would specify all paths relatively, so that it doesn't matter on which 'letter' (E:, F:, G:, ) the usb stick will be installed. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [pdp]/[gridflow] trying to use a webcam
hi all i've run into big troubles trying to use an usb cam with either gridflow or pdp, but it doesn't want to work in both. i wonder if i am doing big mistakes or what combination of drivers and cams work with gridflow. history: # i tried two different models yet: -philips spc900nc -logitech quickcam pro 4000 both are supported by pwc-driver from http://saillard.org/linux/pwc/ . # together with that driver, there is also a usefull tool available 'setpwc', that is used to set some camera-specific settings, that are noth supported by 'dov4l', to commandline tool used to set general web-cam and tv-card settings. # both tools work fine here and i can test the various settings with the program 'camorama'. with camorama i have no troubles to display the picture from the cam and different options work fine (e.g. 320x240/30fps or 640x480/15ps). # but with neither pdp nor gridflow i had luck. for me it is more important that it works with gridflow, also because it is still maintained. that's why i post here only what i tried with gridflow # note: it seems that the according objects in gridflow and pdp [#in] and [pdp_v4l] overwrite some settings in the cam when instantiated. that makes it even more difficult to find a set of settings that just works. # my steps to get a picture with the logitech quickcam pro 4000 and pd/gridflow: -i plug the cam into the usb-plug -'setpwc -d /dev/video1 -p' tells me all actual settings of the cam: - setpwc v1.1, (C) 2003-2005 by [EMAIL PROTECTED] Current device: Logitech QuickCam Pro 4000 VIDIOCPWCPROBE returns: Logitech QuickCam Pro 4000 - 740 Serial number: Resolution (x, y): 320, 240 Offset: 0, 0 Framerate: 10 Brightness: 32256 Hue: 65535 Colour: 32768 Contrast: 0 Whiteness: 0 Palette: YUV 4:2:0 Planar Compression preference: 1 Automatic gain control: -1275 Whitebalance mode: auto Blinking of LED is not supported by the combination of your webcam and the driver. Sharpness: -1 Backlight compensation mode: off Anti-flicker mode: off Noise reduction mode: 1 Pan/tilt range is not supported by the combination of your webcam and the driver. Get pan/tilt position is not supported by the combination of your webcam and the driver. - -i test with 'camorama -d /dev/video1', if these settings work and they work- i get a picture -i send a message [open videodev /dev/video1, get( to [#in] - [gf] [:VideoCapability, Logitech QuickCam Pro 4000, 1, 1, 1, 480, 640, 120, 160] [gf] [:VideoWindow, 0, 0, 240, 320, 0, 655360, -1072189566] [gf] [:VideoWindow, 0, 0, 480, 640, 0, 0, 0] [gf] [:VideoWindow, 0, 0, 480, 640, 0, 655360, 0] [gf] [:VideoPicture, 32256, 0, 32768, 65535, 0, 24, 15] [gf] This card supports palettes: 12, 15 [gf] ioctl VIDIOCSPICT: Invalid argument [gf] [:VideoChannel, 0, Webcam, 0, 0, 2, 16384] [gf] getting colour=32768 [gf] getting contrast=64512 [gf] ioctl VIDIOCGFREQ: Invalid argument [gf] getting hue=65535 [gf] getting brightness=32256 [gf] getting whiteness=65535 - suddenly i don't know what VIDIOCSPICT and VIDIOCGFREQ mean, but it seems that gridflow tries some invalid settings here. -i send [bang( to [#in] and i get: - [gf] ioctl VIDIOCMCAPTURE: Invalid argument error: ArgumentError: ioctl error format/videodev.c.fcs:358:in `void FormatVideoDev::frame_ask(int, Ruby*)' [#in] ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu. - obviously gridflow still tries to send invalid settings to the cam and i get no picture. - i try various colorspaces. when i send [colorspace YUV420P( to [#in], i get: - error: ArgumentError: can't handle palette 15 format/videodev.c.fcs:536:in `void FormatVideoDev::_0_colorspace(int, Ruby*, Symbol)' [#io:videodev in ] - -when i send [colorspace RGB24( to [#in], i get: - [gf] ioctl VIDIOCSPICT: Invalid argument - -when i try any other colorspace, i get: - error: ArgumentError: supported: RGB24, YUV420P format/videodev.c.fcs:523:in `void FormatVideoDev::_0_colorspace(int, Ruby*, Symbol)' [#io:videodev in ] - which is at least a clear humanunderstandable message. -when i send a [bang( again now, i get a different error: - [gf] ioctl VIDIOCSYNC: Invalid argument error: ArgumentError: ioctl error format/videodev.c.fcs:423:in `void FormatVideoDev::frame(int, Ruby*)' [#in] - anyway, i'd really like to know what these codes like VIDIOCSYNC and such stand for. and why it is so easy to use a webcam with 'camorama' but so hard with pdp or gridflow. what models of cams do other people use? any hints appreciated. cheers roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd download all patch
On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 22:15 -0500, patrick wrote: is there a way to download all the netpd-patches (http://www.netpd.org/NetpdPatches)? maybe a release each week/month? hi the best option surely is to run netpd - start _chat.pd and open _creator.pd - and ask someone online to open all interesting patches. the wiki on netpd.org is mainly intended to provide some documentation and of course you could also download all single patches from there, but this is a pain. it would be too much work to maintain such an universal package, when _creator.pd does all the dirty work. i hope you'll have fun with netpd. cheers roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] windows compile - one last try
On Fri, 2006-11-10 at 23:33 +1300, Damian Stewart wrote: i was wanting to experiment with using directx rather than tcl/tk for rendering graphics to get some real high-performance stuff going on, whoooaaa that would be a reason for me to switch back to windows when doing pd. or would there be a way in linux to have a fast gui as well? (not that i plan to implement it :-) ) and pd data structure is a nice way for building many kinds of user interfaces. except it's *incredibly* slow if you get a decent amount of data on-screen. indeed cheers roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [zexy] [symbol2list]: bug (on windows)
i checked, if recent windows-builts still have that error by using [symbol2list] from pd-extended, since this is build directely from cvs. and the error did not occur. anyway, it would be good to provide an updated binary on the iem-ftp-server. as for now, i found an uggly, but obviously working solution for the netpd-windows-package: i added [symbol2list] from pd-extended and let it be loaded before zexy is loaded with -lib symbol2list. On Sat, 2006-11-11 at 02:21 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: hi all attached is a patch, that shows a bug of the [symbol2list]-object. when there is a digit at the begining of a symbol or right after a delimiter-character, [symbol2list] converts that part to a number-element instead of a symbol-element. example: [symbol 4abc.pd( | | [symbol .( | | [symbol2list] | gives: 4 pd instead of: list 4abc pd i found this bug only in the provided binary from: ftp://ftp.iem.at/pd/Externals/ZEXY/zexy-nt-2.1.zip it seems to work correctly in the cvs-version of zexy (built on linux). don't know, if this is an os-specific issue or if the provided binary is not built on the same source from cvs. roman ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netpd download all patch
ah, there is your mail. for me, your mails seem to be written in the future :-), that is why i am overlooking them sometimes... On Tue, 2006-11-14 at 03:12 +, padawan12 wrote: Great stuff. I need to study those and see how you hook the interface level up to net-pd. Just a question of finding the time so I'm very pleased you already converted some of mine to net-pd. How do they perform? Is there a net-pd howto or something? yes, there is a very cheap little tutorial in netpd (netpd/tut) How does net-pd handle time/synchronous alignment and that sort of thing? btw, I listened to some output from net-pd radio and I hear some very impressive jams happening. How do you record them? there is a simple patch called 'recorder' ( http://www.netpd.org/recorder ) , which records the output of the netpd-mixer called 'mx' (http://www.netpd.org/mx ). so, recording happens on the client side. anyway it is better to record in the same instance of pd, cause like that no dropouts and glitches are recorded. Does each machine run all the synths (replicated version of one setup) or do they pipe audio back to a node that does the recording. Much I don't understand. best, Andy On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:50:03 +0100 moritz w. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ola padawan, i've made already a netpd-patch with some of your sound-design stuff. (with a lot of [switch~]es in it) ---im a big fan off your tut's and gizmos! [cheers~] moritz (the attached patch works only with netpd) Original-Nachricht Datum: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 23:07:54 + Von: padawan12 [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: pd-list@iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] netpd download all patch Yeah, I've been looking at it a lot recently. Even if your not into music (and right now really only techno music) net-pd sets a really good standard for pd programming and encapsulation, and probably represents the best of UI practice using only the intrinsic components. I'm thinking next year I will start to move the music synth (toys and gizmos) part of my work towards net-pd because it represents an important versioning commonality to share patches which the wider Pd lacks. There's still room for improving it too. I have some ideas I'm mulling over to do with distributed composition which I hope to add some day and net-pd seems the obvious place to try these out. If you're in London today at the Openlab3 meet we will hopefully get to try out setup based on OSC to perform with simple distributed synthesisers on a LAN. On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 12:18:02 +0800 Chris McCormick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 10:40:39AM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: i hope you'll have fun with netpd. I just wanted to jump in on this thread to say that I find netpd to be one of the most exciting things I have seen in electronic music ever. Thanks so much Roman and all the other contributors for making it. You guys are really pushing new frontiers with this. If anyone hasn't tried it yet, you should get into it! Best, Chris. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mccormick.cx ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Ein Herz für Kinder - Ihre Spende hilft! Aktion: www.deutschlandsegelt.de Unser Dankeschön: Ihr Name auf dem Segel der 1. deutschen America's Cup-Yacht! ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der fr�he Vogel f�ngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] up-down saw-wave
On Thu, 2006-11-23 at 21:57 +0100, martin brinkmann wrote: maybe the main reason for using the phasor was, that i had read something about timing-issues with the metro object. (i can not recall it exactly...) i heard also something about an issue with [metro] from max/msp users, something about that it has audible jitter. honestly i don't quite trusted these rumours, since i often experienced that people suspect a software to be buggy, but actually made the mistakes by themselves. but now i wonder, if there is really some flesh on these rumours. is there something wrong with metro, i never noticed myself? roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
hi all i am trying to use gem, since i changed to ubuntu. i used gem before successfully on windows on the same computer. but since i started compiling gem myself on ubuntu dapper, i am not convinced by its performance and i strongly believe that i am doing something wrong, or anything on my computer is not optimized etc. specs: Pentium M 1.7GHz Ati Radeon Mobility 9600 Ubuntu Dapper Xorg 7.0.0 xorg-driver-fglrx gem from cvs (checked out today) the output of './configure': http://romanhaefeli.net/gem_configure.txt why am i thinking that gem is not working well on my computer? the screensaver also does opengl stuff, that seems to be quite complicated in my eyes and it does eat only a little of the cpu-power, when running. also running the same gem-patches on windows seems to be not only 2x-3x faster, but maybe 30-50 times. running fgl_glxgears gives me values between 440 and 450 frames per second, which makes me assume, that hardware accelerated opengl works on my computer. so i suspect gem no to use any hardware acceleration at all and i wonder why. is there a way to check, if gem uses hardware acceleration? if yes and if my gem is _not_ using hardware acceleration, what do i need to do in order to make gem use of it? many thanks in advance roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
hi derek as i mentioned in the original post, i *have* accelerated graphics on my computer, so glxinfo tells me: 'direct rendering: Yes' the problem i have in this specific case, that i suspect gem not to make use of the hardware acceleration, for whatever reason. i don't know of reliable way to check that yet, though (besides noticing that it is much slower than i would expect). roman On Mon, 2006-11-27 at 23:03 +0100, derek holzer wrote: Hi Roman, Getting accelerated graphics from ATI cards on Linux has always been problematic with or without GEM. What does glxinfo (or fgl_glxinfo???) tell you? Look for the line which says: direct rendering: which should tell you Yes or No. best, d. ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
hi derek On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 00:01 +0100, derek holzer wrote: Hi Roman, I just wanted to get that out of the way. Just because glxgears runs doesn't mean that OpenGL is working and you actually have direct rendering. i see... Sorry I can't help more, since I've never gotten ATI cards to work properly with Linux. Glad at least those work for you! ;-) this doesn't sound very promising :-/ for my part, i only figured it out how to setup with the help of detailed descriptions from the ubuntu-wikis and -forums. since this topic seems not to be the easiest one, i would even be glad to hear some succes stories: is anyone from that list using gem successfully on a system with installed fglrx-driver? i really hope, there are many gem-on-linux users around, so there is still hope :-) roman best, d. Roman Haefeli wrote: hi derek as i mentioned in the original post, i *have* accelerated graphics on my computer, so glxinfo tells me: 'direct rendering: Yes' the problem i have in this specific case, that i suspect gem not to make use of the hardware acceleration, for whatever reason. i don't know of reliable way to check that yet, though (besides noticing that it is much slower than i would expect). roman On Mon, 2006-11-27 at 23:03 +0100, derek holzer wrote: Hi Roman, Getting accelerated graphics from ATI cards on Linux has always been problematic with or without GEM. What does glxinfo (or fgl_glxinfo???) tell you? Look for the line which says: direct rendering: which should tell you Yes or No. best, d. ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
hi cyrill thanks for replying On Mon, 2006-11-27 at 20:10 +0100, cyrille henry wrote: hello, in order to know if your driver suport hardware acceleration, you can try : glxinfo | grep direct it says: 'direct rendering: Yes' if it says yes : then you have hardware acceleration, so gem should use it. anyway, ubuntu do not distribute by default binary driver, so the opengl stuff is not very efficient. i think you should install the binary driver (if compatible with your vision of open source) i know, that is why i installed the proprietary/binary fglrx-driver. once this is made, you should have good acceleration, and gem should use it. it still think, that i have 'good' acceleration. for example i can run opengl based games like armagetron in fullscreen mode without any performance problems. also does xscreensaver run without using much cpu in fullscreen mode. i tried once to build something with a similar number of polygons like one of the screensaver animations in gem, but at least when i switch to fullscreen mode, my cpu goes to 100% and the framerate dramatically drops down to 5 frames per second or slower. because of this behaviour, i believe that gem is the only opengl based software on my computer, that does *not* use hardware acceleration, whereas it seems that other programs do. unfortunately i still don't know a reliable way to make sure, whether gem uses hardware acceleration or not, besides comparing its performance with other software. my problem in other words: how can i make sure at compile time, that gem is compiled so, that it uses hardware acceleration afterwards? and i am still hoping to hear some succes stories roman well, i hope it help, cyrille Roman Haefeli a écrit : hi all i am trying to use gem, since i changed to ubuntu. i used gem before successfully on windows on the same computer. but since i started compiling gem myself on ubuntu dapper, i am not convinced by its performance and i strongly believe that i am doing something wrong, or anything on my computer is not optimized etc. specs: Pentium M 1.7GHz Ati Radeon Mobility 9600 Ubuntu Dapper Xorg 7.0.0 xorg-driver-fglrx gem from cvs (checked out today) the output of './configure': http://romanhaefeli.net/gem_configure.txt why am i thinking that gem is not working well on my computer? the screensaver also does opengl stuff, that seems to be quite complicated in my eyes and it does eat only a little of the cpu-power, when running. also running the same gem-patches on windows seems to be not only 2x-3x faster, but maybe 30-50 times. running fgl_glxgears gives me values between 440 and 450 frames per second, which makes me assume, that hardware accelerated opengl works on my computer. you should have 10 time more with this card. so i suspect gem no to use any hardware acceleration at all and i wonder why. is there a way to check, if gem uses hardware acceleration? if yes and if my gem is _not_ using hardware acceleration, what do i need to do in order to make gem use of it? many thanks in advance roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der fr�he Vogel f�ngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
On Mon, 2006-11-27 at 20:10 +0100, cyrille henry wrote: Roman Haefeli a écrit : running fgl_glxgears gives me values between 440 and 450 frames per second, which makes me assume, that hardware accelerated opengl works on my computer. you should have 10 time more with this card. no, i don't think so. it makes a difference between running fgl_glxgears and the 'normal' glxgears, since the former is much more complex than the latter. also it depends on the window size you are rendering at (and if the window is (partially) hidden by another window etc.). values on my computer (with original window size): glxgears -printfps: ~2200 fgl_glxgears: ~450 i know, that this is not a serious way of benchmarking, but at least these values make me believe, that hardware acceleration works. or am i wrong? roman ___ Der fr�he Vogel f�ngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
hi cyrille thank you very much for your fast reply On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 13:04 +0100, cyrille henry wrote: anyway, on my computer, when i create a gem window, i'v got this on the pd log : Direct Rendering enabled! GEM: Start rendering now, we are getting closer to the problem. when i send a message [create( to [gemwin], i only get: GEM: Start rendering there is no 'Direct Rendering enabled!' message in my pd window. thank you a lot for that hint. now i can be sure, that my gem does *not* use hardware acceleration. to the devs i think it would be helpful, if gem would also print a message, when direct rendering is not used, according to the unix manner, that something is printed, when it doesn't behave as expected, since - i assume - most people use gem *with* hardware acceleration. /to the devs your ./configure output look ok for me. thank you for checking this. can you double check that you have all fglrx-dev package etc.. i only find 'xorg-driver-fglrx-dev' and 'fglrx-kernel-source', which both are installed. i once installed 3dp, which also uses dri, if dri is enabled. and with 3dp it seems to work fine. i once posted a patch, that does the same thing twice: three white cubes that can be rotated with the mouse, once built in gem, once in 3dp. the 3dp version doesn't cause any cpu peaks, whereas the gem version does. (there is a thread on this: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-10/043168.html . when you want to download the patch, use the one from: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2006-10/043177.html ) the fact, that the selfcompiled 3dp seems to use dri, makes me think, that i have all necessary packages installed, but i might be wrong. i stil wonder, why gem does not use it. sorry, can't help more you helped me already a lot :-) . thank you. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
hi chris On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 22:29 +0800, Chris McCormick wrote: Roman Haefeli a écrit : it still think, that i have 'good' acceleration. for example i can run opengl based games like armagetron in fullscreen mode without any it says: 'direct rendering: Yes' On Tue, Nov 28, 2006 at 01:04:40PM +0100, cyrille henry wrote: anyway, on my computer, when i create a gem window, i'v got this on the pd log : Direct Rendering enabled! GEM: Start rendering Roman, It might be that GEM is using different versions of the GL libraries. Try this I guess: ldd /usr/lib/pd/extra/Gem.pd_linux and do the same for glxgears, and see if they're using the same libs. thank you much for that tip. i think i need help on interprating those outputs. i have posted them here: http://www.romanhaefeli.net/ldd_gem.txt http://www.romanhaefeli.net/ldd_glxgears.txt http://www.romanhaefeli.net/ldd_3dp.txt i found, that libglut is not linked in gem, but it is in glxgears and in 3dp. is that a sign, that gem is not using dri? roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] osc~ / phasor~ / cos~ ...sometimes clicking
hi hardoff i would make sure, that these clicks are not dropouts. i mean, you won't hear dropouts without sending an audible signal to [dac~], so just disconnecting the [osc~], so that you hear no clicks anymore, is not a prove, that you do not have dropouts. i don't know if it works on every platform, at least here on linux, when running pd with jack, the [DIO] button in the pd-window indicates dropouts. if you still believe, that the [phasor~]-[cos~] combo is causing the clicks, you could record the output with [writesf~] and open the recorded wavefile with a soundeditor to see, if you can find the clicks. if you find clicks in the soundfile, then something really scary is going on :-) roman On Wed, 2006-11-29 at 00:01 +0900, hard off wrote: has anybody else experienced small clicks every now and then from pd's oscillators? i have noticed it before with [phasor~], and today i was getting it pretty badly with [cos~]..about 1 click every 10 seconds. this is nothing to do with the contents of the patch, because just a [cos~] connected to a [dac~] was making the same thing happen. ...it's nothing to do with dac~ or my sound hardware either, because disconnecting the [cos~] from the [dac~] stopped the clicks. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
hi chris On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 10:02 -0600, chris clepper wrote: On 11/28/06, Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i found, that libglut is not linked in gem, but it is in glxgears and in 3dp. is that a sign, that gem is not using dri? No. GLUT is a toolkit for making simple OpenGL applications. GEM uses glx directly. Perhaps your X11 is not set to a compatible pixel format? how can i change to a compatible pixel format? by editng xorg.conf? I think that is what causes glXIsDirect to return false (and triggers that message in GEM). what is 'glXIsDirect' ? where did you see that? which message in GEM ? forgive me my slow understanding and thanks a lot for your help. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 17:21 +0100, cyrille henry wrote: the main diference i see with yours is that mine got : libGLcore.so.1 = /usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1 (0xb6df8000) libnvidia-tls.so.1 = /usr/lib/tls/libnvidia-tls.so.1 (0xb6df6000) i don't know what libGLcore.so.1 is for, but this seems to be interesting. i think i don't have the other one, because i have an ati card (with fglrx driver) and not a one from nvidia. http://www.romanhaefeli.net/ldd_gem.txt http://www.romanhaefeli.net/ldd_glxgears.txt http://www.romanhaefeli.net/ldd_3dp.txt i found, that libglut is not linked in gem, but it is in glxgears and in 3dp. is that a sign, that gem is not using dri? no, i don't think so : gem does not use it here. i see thank you roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 10:39 -0600, chris clepper wrote: On 11/28/06, Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: how can i change to a compatible pixel format? by editng xorg.conf? I haven't used xorg but probably that conf file has the info on pixel depth. the pixel default depth on my computer is 24 , at least that is what my xorg.conf tells me. I think that is what causes glXIsDirect to return false (and triggers that message in GEM). i am confused. i didn't mention 'glxIsDirect', also i don't have it installed. where did you read, that it is returning 'false' on my computer? glXIsDirect checks that the GL can be drawn directly to the screen and not be touched by the x11 server. http://www.csee.umbc.edu/help/C ++/opengl/man_pages/html/glx/xisdirect.html thank you for the link roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 17:21 +0100, cyrille henry wrote: the main diference i see with yours is that mine got : libGLcore.so.1 = /usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1 (0xb6df8000) is it necessary, that Gem.pd_linux is linked against libGLcore.so ? is that the reason, why i don't have dri enabled in gem? i've been desperately trying to find some info about libGLcore.so, but couldn't find anything usefull. i am still tapping in the dark.. :-( roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] performance issues on ubuntu (no hardware accel?)
hi all finally i solved the problem. gem couldn't access the direct rendering infrastructure, because in my .pdrc pdp_opengl was loaded _before_ Gem. that means, it was not a problem during compile time, but it occured when loading the externals. ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Gem conflicts also with gridflow
hi all i discovered conflicts between gridflow and gem, when gem-objects like [pix_image] or [pix_video] are used. if both libs are loaded and a patch containing such objects is opened, the gem-windows freezes. is that, because they use the same libraries (e.g. libjpeg etc.)? roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] text3d / textoutline
hi romain On Thu, 2006-11-30 at 13:32 +0100, Romain Vuillet wrote: Hello list, i need to display some text in GEM... Even with the GEM examples patchs, objets text3d text outline doesn't work (nothing appears in GEM window) Do i need some extra libraires ? i think not, but you might need to load a truetype font first (*.ttf). have a look at the help-file of [text3d] to see how it works. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Setting latency or buffer size in Gem
On Sat, 2006-12-02 at 13:21 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: Also I don't see how it could solve the problem of two different latencies, if the audio-Pd's latency is set high while the Gem-Pd's graphical latency is still the standard one. if separating gem- and audio-part in two instances of pd, you could run the audio-pd with -rt and low latency, so both are 'fast'. of course, this would work only, if there is a opportunity to split audio and gem, which is not the case in your project, as you mentioned. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Gem: can't load library
hi marius On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 11:30 -0500, marius schebella wrote: hi, may I join you in that discussion? I understand now that the Gem package in the pd-extended is built for nvidia support and does not run without a nvidia card. correct? But what I want to know is, (I don't know so much about configure scripting..) when I build my own Gem and have NO nvidia card, will I have to type --disable-NV? that would not make sense to me... I would like to compile my Gem later today. so thnx for answers. marius. i might be wrong, but as far as i understand the idea of a configure script, it is here, to check if all libraries are installed, that are needed to run the binary, that you are going to compile, also where they are, and also if some optional libraries are there, which may improve the functionality of your binary to compile. if a certain optional funcionality is non-existent on your computer (e.g. nvidia extension), ./configure should automatically disable it, when generating the makefile. if the configure doesn't print errors, you can expect, that the binary you are going to compile will work (at least on your system). in your case, when you execute ./configure, it should print something like: using NV-extensions : no that means, you don't need to add the flag '--disable-NV' to configure. i hope i could help roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Midi sequencing
On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 15:41 -0500, carmen wrote: On Mon Dec 04, 2006 at 09:20:02PM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: hi cypod On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 09:22 -0800, Cypod wrote: Hi PD list, Can anybody recommend a midi sequencing application that works well with pd and possibly jack? what you mean by 'works well' is heavily dependent on what you intend to do. when using midi or streaming sound around, i see no other way than using jack as a communication layer between the application and puredata. from that point, any app that has jack-ability works technically well with pd. PD's [midiin]s can recieve from jack midi ports? it seems so. at least when starting pd with '-jack' (well, that flag still doesn't work here, but i use a workaround by sending a message [audio-setapi some values( ), pd shows up in jacks audio-connections and midi-connections dialog. and if i connect rosegarden's midi out to pd's midiin, i can receive the midimessages sent by rosagarden in pd (and vice versa, of course). this was tested on ubuntu dapper with jackd from the ubuntu-distro and pd-0.40-0 from cvs. anyway, in pd's media menu, there is the box 'ALSA-MIDI' activated, so i don't know how to interprete this, i mean if pd really supports jack's midi, or if jack does provide some alsa emulation. at least it works. if not, maybe you mean to suggest alsa MIDI.. and an external sequencer. no, i mean a a software sequencer running on the same computer like pd runs on. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Midi sequencing
On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 23:41 +, Cesare Marilungo wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 15:41 -0500, carmen wrote: On Mon Dec 04, 2006 at 09:20:02PM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: hi cypod On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 09:22 -0800, Cypod wrote: Hi PD list, Can anybody recommend a midi sequencing application that works well with pd and possibly jack? what you mean by 'works well' is heavily dependent on what you intend to do. when using midi or streaming sound around, i see no other way than using jack as a communication layer between the application and puredata. from that point, any app that has jack-ability works technically well with pd. PD's [midiin]s can recieve from jack midi ports? it seems so. at least when starting pd with '-jack' (well, that flag still doesn't work here, but i use a workaround by sending a message [audio-setapi some values( ), pd shows up in jacks audio-connections and midi-connections dialog. and if i connect rosegarden's midi out to Are you talking about qjackctl, here? yes, i was inaccurate. If this is the case, you should know that the midi devices you see in qjackctl are indeed ALSA midi devices. This explains why you have ALSA-MIDI activated on pd and you can see it in the qjackctl midi connections list There's not jack-midi support in pd at the moment, and AFAIK the jack-midi protocol is still in early stage. ah, ok. thank you for making this clear. roman Ciao, c. pd's midiin, i can receive the midimessages sent by rosagarden in pd (and vice versa, of course). this was tested on ubuntu dapper with jackd from the ubuntu-distro and pd-0.40-0 from cvs. anyway, in pd's media menu, there is the box 'ALSA-MIDI' activated, so i don't know how to interprete this, i mean if pd really supports jack's midi, or if jack does provide some alsa emulation. at least it works. if not, maybe you mean to suggest alsa MIDI.. and an external sequencer. no, i mean a a software sequencer running on the same computer like pd runs on. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Gem: can't load library
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 19:48 -0500, marius schebella wrote: yup, still no luck with Gem here... when compiling cvs Gem on the machine with the Radeon X300 card, I got rid of the glDeleteProgramsNV error. but I can not play any movies. Pd either crashed or showed only one color. do you have any other libs loaded besides Gem? i'd like to know, which. i had a handfull of problems with gem before and it turned out that these problems were conflicts between gem and other libs (pidip, gridflow, 3dp and maybe some others). when testing gem, try first to load it alone, with no other libs loaded. it also seemed to me, that the order of how the libs are loaded has some effect, whether gem works correctly or not. I downgraded ubuntu to libgl1-mesa 6.4 (before it was 6.5). also no glDeleteProgramsNV problem, but no movies ( I test with the examples patch from the help.) at least Pd does not crash... So I am back to the debian package of Gem (v 0.90) which does not make problems. iohannes, what do you want to know from me to locate that problem? with ...Gem/04.pix/05.film.pd I get the following console output: pix_film:: quicktime support pix_film:: libmpeg3 support pix_film:: libaviplay support pix_film:: libmpeg support GEM: Start rendering GL: invalid value [pix_filmNEW]: opening /usr/local/lib/pd//doc/examples/Gem/04.pix/../data/anim-1.mov with format 1908 [pix_filmNEW]: ... [pix_filmNEW]: ... [pix_filmNEW]: loaded file: /usr/local/lib/pd//doc/examples/Gem/04.pix/../data/anim-1.mov with 90 frames (256x256) at 30.00 fps but the texture is not rendered correctly. The whole cube is brownish. marius. this might be not a problem of [pix_film] or [pix_image], but of [pix_texture]. send a message [mode 0( to it, then the texture should be applied as expected. roman 2006/12/5, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Dec 5, 2006, at 4:01 PM, chris clepper wrote: On 12/5/06, Hans-Christoph Steiner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you are saying that they removed NV compatibility from in mesa when going from 6.4 to 6.5? This is just one specific extension for Nvidia specific shaders. I don't know if anyone is using those shaders, but we could probably get by only with the ARB spec support. We are downgrading to mesa 6.4 because we know it works there. We also tried compiling against the 6.5 version. It loaded, but had other issues. Actually, its the same bug that was reported for the autobuilds on Mac/Intel. The video was playing but it was like it was only playing one pixel of the whole video, spread out over the whole area that was being textured. This was with the examples/Gem/4.pix/05.movie.pd .hc http://at.or.at/hans/ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] hid/linux: event permission
On Tue, 2006-12-05 at 09:22 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Basically, you can either change the perms of the devices, or add your user to the root group. do i read correctly that you are proposing to add your user to the root group? i would rather change the group of /dev/input/event* via /etc/udev/rules.d/ (and add myself to this group). hi IOhannes, hi list this sounds so easy, but it is not, at least for me. although this might be off-topic, i'd like to ask the list, how to do this step-by-step, since everyone, who uses [hid] on a linux-box, is confronted with that question. the ugly solution i am using for now, is to change the permissions manually each time i boot the computer and want to use a joystick. thanks for any suggestions roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] hid/linux: event permission with udev
hi IOhannes On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 15:01 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: this sounds so easy, but it is not, at least for me. although this might be off-topic, i'd like to ask the list, how to do this step-by-step, since everyone, who uses [hid] on a linux-box, is confronted with that question. the ugly solution i am using for now, is to change the permissions manually each time i boot the computer and want to use a joystick. adding this line to /etc/udev/permissions.rules (on a debian system) KERNEL==event[0-9]*, MODE=0664, GROUP=games thank you very much for providing this information. should give you rw-rw-r permissions (and the group will be set to games) choose your own group and mode. this is something you i have guessed by just looking at the /etc/udev/ directory and the contents of some files therein. i do not doubt that there is lot of information available in the net. yes, there is, maybe to much and too confusing for someone like me since this wasn't asked before in the list and at the same time it concerns so many people, i still believe it was a good choice to ask the list. why should so many people find that out themselves and possibly spend hours on that ( i admit i sometimes/often spend hours on rather *stupid* things like that), when this could be stated once forever in a thread containing the keywords 'hid' 'linux' 'event' 'permission' 'udev' in its subject? roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] USING PICTURES FROM THE INTERNET
On Thu, 2006-12-07 at 10:29 +, padawan12 wrote: Btw, is there a technique anyone knows to use an invisible canvas or something else to pick up mouse clicks within an image? create first a hslider with the same dimensions as the image and set the sendsymbol, then place [image your pix] over it, so that only the image is visible. now you can receive mouseclicks with [r sendsymbol]. is that what you are looking for? roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd console output within pd
hi marius just to give you a hint (i didn't try it out): start pd with the '-stderr' flag and pipe stderr to pdsend, which sends the data to a [netreceive] in your patch. pd -stderr 21 | pdsend 1234 in the patch: [netreceive 1234] i hope it works roman On Fri, 2006-12-08 at 11:33 -0500, marius schebella wrote: hi, I am thinking of a possibility to get the console output back into pd. I have a remote patch on a client machine that can open video files and I want to send the success or error message to the server through osc. Is it possible to get the console output back into pd? is it possible to grab the console output in any other way? marius. ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] int float with pure data
On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 14:25 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, thomas thiery hat gesagt: // thomas thiery wrote: hello, I have just seen me a bug under pure data but I do not manage to explain it. The problem comes from the int's box, I believe. I think that you know it already. Here my patch Hm, I don't really see what should be the bug in this patch? roll to 41 do you need to roll to 41 in order to get 0. as output? i already get this output with 21 as input. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mr peach externals
On Mon, 2006-12-11 at 19:07 +, Miguel Cardoso wrote: Sorry but I only found c and dll files... http://pure-data.iem.at/Members/martinrp/ is there anywhere else where i can get the compiled files? hi miguel dll files _are_ the the compiled files (compiled for w32). if you are on windows, put them into wherever/pd/extra, then you should be able to use/load them. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tuning an AM radio ideas
hi Nick a possibly stupid, unrealistic and very untested idea comes to my mind: why not build a real AM radio in pd? in a subpatch with a very high samplingrate (using [block~]-object) you could amplitude modulate the signal you want to transmit. with a narrow band-pass filter [bp~], that is tuned to the carrier frequency, you could get back the amplitude of the original signal. maybe you add some [noise~] to simulate cosmic radiowaves. just a few ideas. i would be interested, if this approach has a chance to work roman On Wed, 2006-12-13 at 11:04 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I was just wondering would anyone here have an idea on a starting point for a patch to simulate tuning in a station on an AM radio. I want to make a virtual radio with say 5 chanels that i can tune between replete with the hissing fizzing in between out of tune bits. Thanks Nick ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] tuning an AM radio ideas
hi nick again i didn't want to 'steal' your idea, but i found this subject so interesting, that i tried to realize that approach in a pd-patch. the patch needs [abs~] from zexy and [lp8_butt~] from iemlib. the patch has 3 'stations' (three sources modulated on differently tuned carriers) and one 'receiver'. because of the very high sampling rate in the subpatch (1.53MHz, when pd runs with 44100Hz), the patch eats quite a lot of the cpu. surprisingly it sounds a bit like am-radio, though the quality of the received signal is very bad. the choice of the carrier frequencies does have big effect on the typical am-radio artefacts. there are sure some things, that could be improved. maybe you have use for it. cheers roman On Wed, 2006-12-13 at 12:45 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yep, Thats kinda the approach I was thinkin of. Off to read up on AM radio a bit. thanks for the suggestions On 13 Dec 2006, at 11:43, Roman Haefeli wrote: hi Nick a possibly stupid, unrealistic and very untested idea comes to my mind: why not build a real AM radio in pd? in a subpatch with a very high samplingrate (using [block~]-object) you could amplitude modulate the signal you want to transmit. with a narrow band-pass filter [bp~], that is tuned to the carrier frequency, you could get back the amplitude of the original signal. maybe you add some [noise~] to simulate cosmic radiowaves. just a few ideas. i would be interested, if this approach has a chance to work roman On Wed, 2006-12-13 at 11:04 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I was just wondering would anyone here have an idea on a starting point for a patch to simulate tuning in a station on an AM radio. I want to make a virtual radio with say 5 chanels that i can tune between replete with the hissing fizzing in between out of tune bits. Thanks Nick #N canvas 627 103 770 301 10; #N canvas 106 425 796 503 radio 0; #X obj 6 10 inlet~; #X obj 12 440 outlet~; #X obj 7 49 +~ 1; #X obj 8 76 *~ 0.5; #X obj 9 98 *~; #X obj 9 309 abs~; #X obj 10 359 hip~ 20; #X obj 8 181 +~; #X obj 173 304 line~; #X obj 184 5 inlet~; #X obj 185 44 +~ 1; #X obj 186 71 *~ 0.5; #X obj 187 93 *~; #X obj 8 289 vcf~ 1000; #X obj 11 413 *~ 100; #X text 75 30 sender1; #X text 260 31 sender2; #X obj 174 419 block~ 8192 1 32; #X obj 363 11 inlet~; #X obj 364 50 +~ 1; #X obj 365 77 *~ 0.5; #X obj 366 99 *~; #X text 456 29 sender3; #X obj 82 185 noise~; #X obj 662 91 inlet; #X text 655 65 tuning frequency; #X text 86 99 carrier; #X text 269 95 carrier; #X text 450 97 carrier; #X obj 9 331 lp8_butt~ 8000; #X obj 428 79 osc~ 150311; #X obj 253 77 osc~ 123080; #X obj 75 82 osc~ 101273; #X obj 81 211 *~ 0.005; #X obj 173 281 pack f 200; #X connect 0 0 2 0; #X connect 2 0 3 0; #X connect 3 0 4 0; #X connect 4 0 7 0; #X connect 5 0 29 0; #X connect 6 0 14 0; #X connect 7 0 13 0; #X connect 8 0 13 1; #X connect 9 0 10 0; #X connect 10 0 11 0; #X connect 11 0 12 0; #X connect 12 0 7 0; #X connect 13 0 5 0; #X connect 14 0 1 0; #X connect 18 0 19 0; #X connect 19 0 20 0; #X connect 20 0 21 0; #X connect 21 0 7 0; #X connect 23 0 33 0; #X connect 24 0 34 0; #X connect 29 0 6 0; #X connect 30 0 21 1; #X connect 31 0 12 1; #X connect 32 0 4 1; #X connect 33 0 7 1; #X connect 34 0 8 0; #X restore 132 80 pd radio; #X obj 132 214 dac~; #X obj 212 145 hsl 128 15 0 1 0 0 empty empty empty -2 -8 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 12700 1; #X obj 132 172 *~; #X obj 315 77 hsl 300 15 9 16 0 0 empty empty tuning_frequency 4 8 1 10 -262144 -1 -1 12600 1; #X floatatom 312 106 8 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 31 37 adc~ 1; #X obj 117 35 adc~ 3; #X obj 192 37 adc~ 5; #X text 375 106 Hz; #X text 27 16 station1; #X text 110 16 station2; #X text 189 16 station3; #X text 359 61 | 1; #X text 453 60 | 2; #X text 569 61 | 3; #X obj 209 165 t f f; #X obj 209 186 *; #X connect 0 0 3 0; #X connect 2 0 16 0; #X connect 3 0 1 0; #X connect 3 0 1 1; #X connect 4 0 0 3; #X connect 4 0 5 0; #X connect 6 0 0 0; #X connect 7 0 0 1; #X connect 8 0 0 2; #X connect 16 0 17 0; #X connect 16 1 17 1; #X connect 17 0 3 1; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [PD-announce] netpd-shuffle: the netpd-radio
hi all netpd-shuffle, the netpd-radio-stream, plays just everything that ever has been recorded from netpd-sessions. there is also an ANTI_BOREDOM_BUTTON on it's webinterface, that is to press, when a session lasts for a too long time and is going to become boring (some sessions are more than an hour long and stay the same for some time, because everyone is chatting instead of making music ;-) http://www.netpd.org/listen --this is all stuff made purely with puredata-- on the same stream livesessions will be broadcasted, that hopefully will happen every thursday @ 9pm GMT. everyone is kindly invited to participate. cheers roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-announce mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] netpd-shuffle: the netpd-radio
hi mark
quite a few applications are involved:
-a bash-scripts (wget, sed, etc.) creates a actual playlist (m3u) from
the apache-directory-list
-mplayer is started with '-input file=fifo'-flag and plays the
m3u-file in shuffle mode. trough the fifo it can be controled by any
other application
-mplayer connects itself with puredata over the jack-server.
-a puredata-patch converts the audio into a mp3-stream using the
[mp3cast~]-object from y.degoyon's unauthorized. it's maybe not too
straight forward to go over pd for that purpose, but i like to have the
opportunity to process the stream (gain-control [which i plan to
implement], add jingles or whatever)
-an icecast-server receives the mp3-stream from pd
-a little php-script sends the appropriate command to the fifo, that is
read by mplayer, when the button on the webpage is clicked.
roman
On Fri, 2006-12-15 at 06:19 -0800, mark edward grimm wrote:
hey roman,
just curious what software you used for the streaming
radio... icecast or something to that effect?
BTW. the shuffle option is pretty cool:)
cheers
mark
--- Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
hi all
netpd-shuffle, the netpd-radio-stream, plays just
everything that ever
has been recorded from netpd-sessions. there is also
an
ANTI_BOREDOM_BUTTON on it's webinterface, that is to
press, when a
session lasts for a too long time and is going to
become boring (some
sessions are more than an hour long and stay the
same for some time,
because everyone is chatting instead of making
music ;-)
http://www.netpd.org/listen
--this is all stuff made purely with puredata--
on the same stream livesessions will be broadcasted,
that hopefully will
happen every thursday @ 9pm GMT. everyone is kindly
invited to
participate.
cheers
roman
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mark edward grimm | m.f.a | ed.m
megrimm.net | socialmediagroup.org .com
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | 585.509.8703
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Re: [PD] Re: [PD-ot] how low (latency) can you go?
On Sat, 2006-12-16 at 20:38 -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, Patco wrote:
aws a écrit :
A general method for latency measurement of any system is described in
this paper: Matthew Wright, Ryan Cassidy, Michael Zbyszynski, Audio and
Gesture Latency Measurements on Linux and OSX, Proceedings of ICMC
2004, Miami
or just connect ãudio input to audio output of the soundcard and take a
measure with some patch magics.
Exactly. That's what I said a few mails ago. Try
doc/7.stuff/tools/latency.pd ... however it doesn't seem to be super
precise. Do you have any ideas on how to make it more precise?
the attached patch has sample precision, but it requires some user
interaction to give you a result (and [dirac~] from zexy).
roman
#N canvas 193 337 1249 508 10;
#X obj 148 42 metro 500;
#N canvas 0 0 450 300 (subpatch) 0;
#X array scope 1200 float 2;
#X coords 0 1.3 1200 -1.3 1200 200 1;
#X restore 31 290 graph;
#X obj 148 15 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 0 -6 0 8 -262144 -1 -1 1 1
;
#X text 404 61 2 start the metro in order to send dirac-impulses;
#X text 405 24 1 shortcut out1 of your soundcard with in1;
#X obj 198 194 dac~ 1;
#X obj 198 214 adc~ 1;
#X obj 147 245 dac~ 2;
#X obj 197 245 tabwrite~ scope;
#X text 170 12 start/stop measurement;
#X text 426 39 ('1' can be replaced by any number);
#X text 401 90 3 adjust the delay \, so that the direct impulse is
synced to the incoming impulse and you hear/see only one impuls.;
#X obj 401 159 loadbang;
#X obj 99 64 dirac~;
#X obj 99 108 delwrite~ latencyemu 100;
#X obj 101 169 delread~ latencyemu;
#X floatatom 101 140 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X text 182 140 - adjust delay;
#X text 139 140 ms;
#X msg 401 182 \; pd dsp 1 \; scope xticks 0 4.41 10 \;;
#X text 468 274 | 10ms;
#X text 908 274 | 20ms;
#X connect 0 0 8 0;
#X connect 0 0 13 0;
#X connect 2 0 0 0;
#X connect 6 0 7 0;
#X connect 6 0 8 0;
#X connect 12 0 19 0;
#X connect 13 0 5 0;
#X connect 13 0 14 0;
#X connect 15 0 8 0;
#X connect 15 0 7 0;
#X connect 16 0 15 0;
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[PD] network problem with pd / [list-fifo]
hi all netpd's major problem is the occurence of many dropouts in certain situations. one reason is the way how all (at least all i know) network related objects in pd handle buffer overruns. when the buffer of a network object is full, the whole pd processing is stopped until the buffer gets emptied again. buffer overruns could be avoided in userspace, if these object would output their internal state. it would be already quite helpful, if there would be a second outlet, that outputs a bang when ever the buffer is completely emptied (like [textfile] or [list-drip] and other object do). with this information it would be possible to build a patch, that uses maximum bandwidth without ever getting dropouts. the above concerns at least [netsend], [netserver]/[netclient] (from maxlib) and possibly the objects from mrpeach. as a crude solution to limit bandwidth in netpd, i made the attached abstraction [list-fifo]. i am not sure, if it is a suitable name. @frank if you think, that fits into your list-abs-collection, feel free to add/modify it. roman #N canvas 546 60 474 380 10; #X obj 138 129 list append; #X obj 139 101 list; #X obj 139 79 t b l; #X obj 22 182 list split 1; #X obj 22 160 list append; #X obj 22 206 sel [delim]; #X obj 22 134 until; #X obj 139 57 list append [delim]; #X obj 94 278 list append; #X obj 94 228 t b l; #X obj 94 256 list; #X obj 22 305 list; #X obj 22 231 t b b; #X obj 22 6 inlet trigger; #X obj 139 5 inlet list; #X obj 303 6 inlet delimiter; #X obj 303 28 route symbol; #X obj 22 329 outlet; #X obj 239 332 outlet; #X obj 180 171 b; #X connect 0 0 1 1; #X connect 0 0 4 1; #X connect 1 0 0 0; #X connect 2 0 1 0; #X connect 2 1 0 1; #X connect 3 0 5 0; #X connect 3 1 4 1; #X connect 3 1 1 1; #X connect 3 2 18 0; #X connect 3 2 19 0; #X connect 4 0 3 0; #X connect 5 0 12 0; #X connect 5 1 9 0; #X connect 6 0 4 0; #X connect 7 0 2 0; #X connect 8 0 10 1; #X connect 8 0 11 1; #X connect 9 0 10 0; #X connect 9 1 8 1; #X connect 10 0 8 0; #X connect 11 0 17 0; #X connect 12 0 11 0; #X connect 12 1 10 1; #X connect 12 1 8 1; #X connect 12 1 6 1; #X connect 13 0 6 0; #X connect 14 0 7 0; #X connect 15 0 16 0; #X connect 16 0 7 1; #X connect 16 0 5 1; #X connect 19 0 6 1; #N canvas 131 63 657 285 10; #X obj 18 196 print; #X obj 76 166 print EOF; #X obj 18 12 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1; #X msg 47 32 eins due trois four; #X msg 56 52 1 2 3 4 5; #X symbolatom 69 73 10 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 82 90 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X text 204 65 [list-fifo] keeps back incoming messages \, so that they can be outputted afterwards.; #X text 202 150 [list-fifo] can be used to limit the number of messages passing during a certain time (might be usefull to limit the used network bandwidth).; #X symbolatom 114 117 10 0 0 0 - - -; #X text 194 116 - change delimiter symbol; #X text 202 215 !! PROBLEM !!; #X text 42 11 - trigger output; #X obj 18 137 list-fifo; #X text 203 233 when a message contains the delimiter symbol \, it is falsely split into two parts.; #X connect 2 0 13 0; #X connect 3 0 13 1; #X connect 4 0 13 1; #X connect 5 0 13 1; #X connect 6 0 13 1; #X connect 9 0 13 2; #X connect 13 0 0 0; #X connect 13 1 1 0; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] network problem with pd / [list-fifo]
On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 13:47 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote: as a crude solution to limit bandwidth in netpd, i made the attached abstraction [list-fifo]. i am not sure, if it is a suitable name. @frank if you think, that fits into your list-abs-collection, feel free to add/modify it. Thanks a lot, this can be a very useful patch. I added it to the [list]-abs on CVS with some small changes/extensions: Internally it uses the new [list-extend] abstraction now to build lists from incoming messages. I added a clear method to the first inlet to empty the FIFO, I changed the default delimiter to the empty symbol, and added the possibility to set the delimiter with an abstraction argument as well like [list-fifo my-l33t-del1m17er] wow.. cool! ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [*] vs [*~]
--- Tim Blechmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: and why is expr~ so slow? I don't know, this might deserve a look (or a rewrite). sample-wise dsp processing is usually way slower than block-wise. iirc, i read something about a factor 2 ... afaik, [expr~] does non-recursive / block-wise processing, whereas [fexpr~] does sample-wise / recursive processing. so, your explanation would apply to [fexpr~], if i am not totally wrong. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
RE: [PD] Re: [GEM-dev] Re: pix_video and dv1394 capture on Edgy
--- Mathieu Bouchard [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: On Thu, 28 Dec 2006, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: Thanks for the advice but I am hoping to avoid webcam due to inherent quality/fps decrease. USB2 is 40 times faster than USB1: at 400 mbps, in 720x576, full color 24 bits per pixel, cameras could do 40 fps... but typically they don't, they use half the data rate (decimation of chroma columns, as in most broadcast video) and have a cap at 30 fps because anyway the motion is already blurry enough at 30 fps. anyway, though it theoretically should be possible to capture a webcam with [EMAIL PROTECTED], i couldn't find a cam yet, that supports these values. also, it is so confusing, that often they are advertized as usbII capable cams, but actually they don't make use of the bandwidth. further you find often a maximum framerate in the specs, but not which dimensions these maximum rate is related to. webcam sellers are really pissing me off. i bought a spc900nc, which works with the opensource pwc linux webcam driver. though this cam should be capable of capturing at 90fps according to the specs, i couldn't reach that rate neither with the proprietary windows driver nor with the pwc driver. the maximum with the pwc i could get is [EMAIL PROTECTED], which is less than 1/4 of what you say should be possible with usbII. more moanings about webcams: it's hard to tell in advance, if it will be possible to switch automatic gain control/automatic white balance/automatic shutter time on and off, which could be important when using a cam with gem/pdp/gridflow. with the cam i mentioned above, i have the following colospace problems: -pdp is capturing the cam as expected -gridflow captures it only in yuv420p colorspace and one needs to convert it to RGB using gridflow objects, which is heavily cpu expensive. -gem shows the captured image as bgr instead of rgb, so colors red and blue are swapped. it is possible to convert it to rgb with [pix_colormatrix], which is also very cpu expensive. fazit: webcams are kind of an annoying topic and i can really understand ivico's efforts to get a dv-cam working with gem. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pduino: change read speed
hello i recently ordered two arduino boards and now i try my first steps with it. i downloaded Pduino-0.2 and uploaded the firmware to the chip. i encountered a little, but sometimes annoying problem, when using the board with [arduino]-object. when i enable one or more analog inputs, the arduino sends so much data, that data sent from computer to arduino gets delayed, sometimes up to 10 seconds. this makes it impossible for me to use the outputs, while using the analog ins at the same time. i use the [arduino]-object as it is (with the hardcoded baudrate of 115200) and i connect the arduino-board directly to one of my laptop's usb-ports. i counted the messages i receive from the the analog input, when i enable it: 1 analog input enabled: ~960 values/s 2 analog inputs enabled: ~480 values/s per input 3 analog inputs enabled: ~320 values/s per input (and so on) would it be easy to change the code of the firmware, so that it sends the values of each analog input with a fixed rate (e.g. 100 Hz)? i am not a c programmer, anyway i tried to search for kind of a delay function in the code, but couldn't find anything. am i right in assuming, that as it is now, it cycles through the code and sends each time the values with the maximum possible rate, or in other words: there is no speedlimit in the firmware? if so, how hard would it be to implement kind of a speedlimit on the arduino-side? any suggestions are welcome. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pduino: change read speed
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 01:17 -0500, Martin Peach wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: hello i recently ordered two arduino boards and now i try my first steps with it. i downloaded Pduino-0.2 and uploaded the firmware to the chip. i encountered a little, but sometimes annoying problem, when using the board with [arduino]-object. when i enable one or more analog inputs, the arduino sends so much data, that data sent from computer to arduino gets delayed, sometimes up to 10 seconds. this makes it impossible for me to use the outputs, while using the analog ins at the same time. i use the [arduino]-object as it is (with the hardcoded baudrate of 115200) and i connect the arduino-board directly to one of my laptop's usb-ports. i counted the messages i receive from the the analog input, when i enable it: 1 analog input enabled: ~960 values/s 2 analog inputs enabled: ~480 values/s per input 3 analog inputs enabled: ~320 values/s per input (and so on) would it be easy to change the code of the firmware, so that it sends the values of each analog input with a fixed rate (e.g. 100 Hz)? You could always run at a baud rate like 1200, so the arduino is not able to send more than 120 bytes per second. the problem i have, is not that i don't want so much data, but that the analogIns eat whole bandwidth, so that i get jitter on the digitalOuts. setting another baud rate doesn't seem to solve this problem, since the analogIns send with lower rate then, but still eat whole available bandwidth. maybe i am totally wrong, but my assumption is, that when the analogIns don't send so fast, that they fill the bandwidth, there would be less jitter on the digitalOuts. when using digitalOuts without the analogIns enabled, i don't have noticable jitter at all. that is why i thought, limiting the speed of the analogIns would help. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pduino: change read speed
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 03:59 +0100, Christian Klippel wrote: Am Samstag, 13. Januar 2007 03:31 schrieb Roman Haefeli: hello [...snip...] would it be easy to change the code of the firmware, so that it sends the values of each analog input with a fixed rate (e.g. 100 Hz)? i am not a c programmer, anyway i tried to search for kind of a delay function in the code, but couldn't find anything. am i right in assuming, that as it is now, it cycles through the code and sends each time the values with the maximum possible rate, or in other words: there is no speedlimit in the firmware? if so, how hard would it be to implement kind of a speedlimit on the arduino-side? any suggestions are welcome. the best way would be to implement a threshold and a gating function that handles the adc readouts. i'm doing that in the multio. it works like this: the last sent value is saved. the actual readout is compared to that, and if the difference is above a given threshold, it will open the gate for a certain amount of time. during that time it sends all values (as long as they change, regardless of the threhold). each time the change is above the threshold, the open-time is reset. now, when the changes are below the threhold during the gate-open time, the time runs out. then it closes the gate again and the whole thing starts over. this has two advantages: when nothing happens, there are no values to send at all. but while the gate is on, you dont miss any change, allowing for smooth transistions, and get all values as they come in. this would solve my problem, when for example i don't move a physical fader, that is connected to the arduino board. but as as long as i am moving that fader, the respective analogIn sends its values with the maximum rate, so i will probably have jitter on the digitalOuts again. of course, your proposal would be much more elegant in terms of saving badwidth, when it is not used, but unfortunately i am not able to code it. basically, i hoped it would be as easy as inserting a line somewhere in the firmware code, that says something like: 'wait here for 1ms, then continue' i wouldn't mind, if this would lower the over all rate, as long as jitter is reduced. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pduino: change read speed
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 10:50 -0500, Martin Peach wrote:
Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 03:59 +0100, Christian Klippel wrote:
Am Samstag, 13. Januar 2007 03:31 schrieb Roman Haefeli:
hello
[...snip...]
would it be easy to change the code of the firmware, so that it sends
the values of each analog input with a fixed rate (e.g. 100 Hz)?
i am not a c programmer, anyway i tried to search for kind of a delay
function in the code, but couldn't find anything. am i right in
assuming, that as it is now, it cycles through the code and sends each
time the values with the maximum possible rate, or in other words: there
is no speedlimit in the firmware? if so, how hard would it be to
implement kind of a speedlimit on the arduino-side?
any suggestions are welcome.
the best way would be to implement a threshold and a gating function that
handles the adc readouts. i'm doing that in the multio. it works like this:
the last sent value is saved. the actual readout is compared to that, and
if
the difference is above a given threshold, it will open the gate for a
certain amount of time. during that time it sends all values (as long as
they
change, regardless of the threhold). each time the change is above the
threshold, the open-time is reset. now, when the changes are below the
threhold during the gate-open time, the time runs out. then it closes the
gate again and the whole thing starts over.
this has two advantages: when nothing happens, there are no values to send
at
all. but while the gate is on, you dont miss any change, allowing for
smooth
transistions, and get all values as they come in.
this would solve my problem, when for example i don't move a physical
fader, that is connected to the arduino board. but as as long as i am
moving that fader, the respective analogIn sends its values with the
maximum rate, so i will probably have jitter on the digitalOuts again.
of course, your proposal would be much more elegant in terms of saving
badwidth, when it is not used, but unfortunately i am not able to code
it.
basically, i hoped it would be as easy as inserting a line somewhere in
the firmware code, that says something like:
'wait here for 1ms, then continue'
i wouldn't mind, if this would lower the over all rate, as long as
jitter is reduced.
first, thank you, martin and chris, for all your ideas and patience.
Adding a millisecond delay would increase the jitter.
ah, ok.
Another way would
be to have the arduino only send analog when requested.
At the moment it sends digital ins only if they have changed, but sends
every analog value.
Are you sure the jitter is not caused by pd?
no, i don't know how to check that. actually, i don't know, where the
bottleneck is. the only i can say is, that when analogIns are enabled,
it takes up to 10 seconds from sending the message [digital 13 1( until
i see the led light up. also the message to disable reporting of analog
inputs takes very long then. after the message arrived, jitter of
digital is not noticable anymore.
I tested comport with an
oscilloscope on the serial pin and a [metro] triggering [comport]. The
jitter was in the millisecond range, and could be reduced by decreasing
the audio block size but not eliminated.
If the arduino is causing the jitter it should go down as you increase
the baud rate since the time to send an analog value goes down.
actually, i use 115200, which is the default in the [arduino]-object. i
tried also 57600 and 230400, but then i cannot set the digital inputs
anymore, though the RX led on the board is still blinking, when i send
messages.
does the firmware also be set to another baudrate, when i change it in
the [arduino]-object?
At some
point the analog conversion takes longer than the data transmission and
then it won't go much faster.
What kind of precision do you want? If you need to output a periodic
signal it might be easier to program the arduino to do that and use pd
to set the period but not send the actual pulses.
i use the digitalOuts to trigger linear solenoids (is that the correct
expression? hubmagnete in german). they knock on some metal object. i
use pd to play them rhythmic patterns. that is why i care about jitter.
up to 10ms or even more should be ok, i don't think one notices that
much. but when it's 300ms or even 10s then it is not usuable to generate
rhythms anymore.
Also you could try changing the checkForInput function so that it stays
there longer:
Change:
void checkForInput() {
if(Serial.available()) {
while(Serial.available()) {
processInput( (byte)Serial.read() );
}
}
}
to:
void checkForInput() {
int i = 100;
while (--i) {
if(Serial.available()) {
while(Serial.available()) {
processInput( (byte
Re: [PD] Pduino: change read speed
On Sun, 2007-01-14 at 14:31 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Jan 13, 2007, at 12:27 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Sat, 2007-01-13 at 10:50 -0500, Martin Peach wrote:
Also you could try changing the checkForInput function so that it
stays
there longer:
Change:
void checkForInput() {
if(Serial.available()) {
while(Serial.available()) {
processInput( (byte)Serial.read() );
}
}
}
to:
void checkForInput() {
int i = 100;
while (--i) {
if(Serial.available()) {
while(Serial.available()) {
processInput( (byte)Serial.read() );
}
}
}
}
this worked for me. messages TO the board don't get delayed anymore.
many thanks again.
:-)
Did this cause any added latency? I have seen the problems that you
have pointed out, but I haven't had a chance to debug them. I think
the key is to find ways to make things work at the full speed, rather
than find workarounds.
The processInput() stuff should probably be handled using an
interrupt so output messages don't get dropped. The tricky part
there is to handle output messages without causing jitter in the
input messages. That's the ultimate goal.
.hc
here a short (but a bit more detailed) report from my side:
i applied the proposed changes to the firmware-code and uploaded the new
version to the arduino board. after enabling analogIns it was still
possible to send messages to digitalOuts without any additional jitter.
but when i enable more than 3 analogIns, i have the same situation again
(as for now i can live with that). when 4 or more analogIns are enabled,
messages TO the board don't come through anymore and sometimes i even
need to close the connection in order to switch the analogIns off again
(closing [comport] has immediate effect, whereas turning analogIns off
might take up to 10s or more).
i measured again with the patched version, how many values i receive in
pd from the analogIns. Interestingly, i still get around 968 values per
seconds. that means, that martin peach's patch doesn't affect
performance of the arduino board, but increases the amount of enabled
analogIns whitout having jitter from 0 (original version) to 3 (martin
peach's version).
maybe it looks stupid from a coder perspective, but i will test if i can
make it work with all analogIns enabled by increasing the while loop to
200 iterations (1 iteration = no analogIn; 100 iterations = 3 analogIns;
200 iterations = 6 analogIns?)
roman
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Re: [PD] wave morphing
On Mon, 2007-01-15 at 11:49 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: the output of [wrap~] is always = 0 and 1. which is wrong, when the input is 0. i din't read carefully, sorry. ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Glitches during audio test on Mac OS X (newbie)
hello joseph i am not a mac user myself, but a student mate of mine had a similar problem with any version of pd (we tried about 4 different versions). However, we couldn't find any setting to avoid these glitches (these glitches have been also very regular, like: 'zlic - zlic-zlic', like in your case). even setting the samplerate to 48000Hz didn't help, though that was mentioned in some mails before. also on her computer other applications ran fine, only pd was causing trouble. then we tried to run pd over jack and all troubles are gone. there is even a precompiled osx-binary of jack and an appropriate gui available, which makes the installing very easy: http://www.jackosx.com/ i hope that this will be a help also for you roman On Thu, 2007-01-18 at 06:04 +, Joseph Wilk wrote: Greetings everyone, Thank you for your consideration in my problems getting going with Pd. I am currently running Pd version 0.40-2 for Mac OS X 10.4 (PPC Intel). On this computer, I have Mac OS X 10.4.8 running on a 1.67 GHz PowerPC G4 with 1 GB of RAM. I am using my built-in audio drivers. When I try to run the audio test or any other audio-based patch, I get terrible glitches. Usually, they are spaced evenly in a 1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 rhythm (only occasionally breaking that rhythm before settling back). No matter what I set the delay to, I get these glitches in the sound. No other audio program (like Ableton Live) is having any issues with the on-board sound card I am not running any other programs at the time of Pd. I can reproduce this issue faithfully through several releases back, even with special extended compiles. Does anyone have any suggestions for how I can continue troubleshooting or correct this problem? Thank you kindly! Best wishes, Joseph Wilk ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] jack
On Fri, 2007-01-19 at 17:48 +, Miguel Cardoso wrote: since im on macintel, pdvst doesn't work. i downloaded jack, but it isn't compiled. can anyone help on compiling jack for macintel? there is http://www.jackosx.com/ ( i posted the link two days ago). though, i don't know if that works also on intel-macs. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] slowly load a pd-patches/abs without dropouts
hello personally, i think it is not worth that much effort. unfortunately creating a patch dynamically is NOT the same as 'executing' each line of the pd-file. this makes slow dynamic creation much more complicated than necessary. also, in order to follow your rule to do EVERYTHIN slowly, you would have to turn every instance of an abstraction into an subpatch and therefore you would need to parse all dollararguments and convert them to their appropriate values. probably there are many problems more, which don't come to mind right now. this approach is like netpd started in the beginning, but it turned out, that this adds too much complexity. anyway, i think that these kind of problems shouldn't be solved in the userspace, but in pd itself, since that is a general problem. it would be interesting, if there is ever a chance, that pd loads patches without dropouts or if this is impossible by design. there are other similar problems, that cause dropouts, which might be easier to solve like dropouts on full network buffer or writing and reading files. roman On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 11:56 +0100, Enrique Erne wrote: hi list i'd like to open patches or dynamically create abstractions during a performance without having dropouts. that's why i'm trying to build a system that slowly loads a patch. instead [; pd open patch-name.pd path( or [; pd-subpatchname obj 10 10 abstraction-name args( it reads the patch with [textfile] and creates the objects slowly line by line. a problem was to rebuild the exact order of the subpatches. as far as i tested it works now. if a patch doesn't load correctly please let me know and send it to me. to identify subpatches and place the objects in the right place it adds a number in front of the sub-patch name like this: [pd *id*-subpatchname]. -- just found out there is a msg [; pd-subpatchname rename newname(, after renaming the sub-patch to it's original names the is no visual update, besides that it works fine. an other problem was with the array from Menu / Put / Array. it loads now even with content. any comments are welcome. eni ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pack/unpack
On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 19:13 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, forgot how to get the result to be a condensed h u p (hup). Attachment below... Perhaps an extra bang is needed. Did it before in a patch that freezes on startup now. at the risk of sounding sarcastic: it would be interesting to know what you are talking about from guessing i'd say you want to convert a message [list h u p( to [symbol hup(. (am i right?). there is [list2symbol(, which is part of zexy, and iirc, there is also an abstraction in franks list-abs-library, that can do the same without using externals. i agree with IOhannes, that there would have been ways to say more clearly, what you want effectively. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fwd: basic logic (AND OR) and control in PD
On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 12:01 +, matthew venn wrote:
So I want a bunch of buttons that do *multiple actions, depending on
the current state of the sampler*. So for example I gave:
* in stop mode, if I press the button we go to record/play mode
* in record/play mode, the button closes the loop and stops playback.
I will need a few different states, such as
* playing
* overdubbing
* stopped
* recording
that will be tied to 1 of a few different parallel samplers (probably
around 4).
hi matthew again
i attached a small patch, that shows how i would implement the most
simple 'state alternator'. if you want to make state switching dependent
on other states, it might be helpfull to have a look at the helppatch of
[ ], [|| ], [== ] and such. with these objects, it should be possible
to implement the logic you want to achieve.
some random tips, that are important, when doing logic-stuff:
* many objects with two inlets only send a 'result' to the outlet, when
they're triggered by the left ('hot') inlet, whereas, if they get a
message at their right ('cold') inlet, only their internal state is
changed, but nothing is sent to the outlet. (Section 2.3.3 of the
pd-html-manual is more detailed and might be interesting for you)
* you should care about execution order. for example, when one outlet is
connected to two inlets, the order of execution is *not* defined, or in
other words: you don't know, which inlet gets the message first.
therefore usually a [trigger]-object is inserted in between in order to
avoid 'undefinedness' (have a look at the help of [trigger]).
* read the section about the 'depth-first'-principle in pd (section
2.3.2).
i hope, that was not too 'teacherish' ;-)
roman
#N canvas 746 329 458 378 10;
#X obj 51 21 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
-1;
#X text 73 20 -- switch states;
#X obj 51 85 ==;
#X obj 93 85 f;
#X obj 51 179 select 0 1;
#X text 64 58 ;
#X text 64 145 ;
#X text 82 41 (when hit \, it sends a a 'bang';
#X text 94 109 sends alternating '0' and '1';
#X text 144 174 if input matches \, send 'bang to;
#X text 143 191 the appropriate output.;
#X text 99 216 ---;
#X msg 51 261 stop;
#X msg 93 261 play/record;
#X obj 51 307 print;
#X connect 0 0 2 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 2 0 4 0;
#X connect 3 0 2 1;
#X connect 4 0 12 0;
#X connect 4 1 13 0;
#X connect 12 0 14 0;
#X connect 13 0 14 0;
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Re: [PD] pd 0.40.2 horizontal scroll-bar bug
hello pat On Sat, 2007-01-27 at 15:00 -0500, patrick wrote: hi, i compiled pd 0.40.2 from miller's site. minor bug here on linux, see the screenshot. the bottom horizontal scroll-bar is not working. this i think on your picture there is actually a scrollbar, but it is very small. i guess, because there is one or more objects quite far on the left side of the visible part in your patch. (the scrollbar is at the right end). behavior was not in pd 0.39.x - also sometimes all objects are moving on the left side of the patch. maybe that is what happened here? roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] edit or play mode information
On Mon, 2007-01-29 at 15:19 -0500, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: Also, for me, the .pd extension isn't needed on subpatches... just in order to clarify it, if still unclear: when sending messages to canvasses, the adress (or selector or whatever it is called correctly) is pd-canvasname. that is why, when adressing main-patches or abstractions, there IS an extension '.pd' and when adressing subpatches, there ISN'T any extension. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] DSP loops
hello kim On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 12:07 +, Kim Taylor wrote: That is the best way? Hm, I'm surprised! yes, it is. what did you expect? of course, when working with recursion, there has to be a result already before computing the next iteration. that is not a matter of pd, but of pure logic. Ok, I'll get to work then- It means the layer with the system topology needs to have its sampling block forced to 1. Mightn't this affect performance? especially for a large program? yes, it does. either you set the block-size to 1 or you could use [fexpr~ ] or any other object that allows recursion ([rpole~], [rzero~], [biquad~] and the like), which might not do exactly, what you want. so [block~ 1] might still be the best choice. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] DSP loops
On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 12:55 +, Kim Taylor wrote: Roman, either you set the block-size to 1 or you could use [fexpr~ ] or any other object that allows recursion ([rpole~], [rzero~], [biquad~] and the like), which might not do exactly, what you want. so [block~ 1] might still be the best choice. When you say they allow recursion, I don't understand how they can be used to overcome the DSP loop problem. actually, they don't overcome the dsp loop problem. they get one block of audio samples for computation, compute something (it doesn't matter, if the object internally uses '1' as a block-size) and spit the result to the outlet, again in a block of samples. of course, this recursion happens only internally, within the object. As I understand it these functions work recursively- in the case of the filters rpole~ and rzero~ by using the values associated with previous sampling intervals- but on a higher level their addition to the signal chain doesn't allow for recursive behaviour... yes, true. or am I missing the point? no. it possibly was a bit confusing from my side to bring [rzero~] and such in. it depends on what you want to achieve. if it's something filterlike, they might would have helped. also, if you can pack your whole program into one [fexpr~ ], that would possibly be an alternative, too (though [expr]/[expr~]/[fepxr~] are known to be slow). if nothing of this is better, then using [block~ 1] is the best, though not nice. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] data structures and library abstraction question
On Tue, 2007-01-30 at 15:07 -0800, Rich E wrote: Hi all, I just had a look at Frank's data structure tutorial, in which he suggests making a library abstraction for all structure templates. This seems like something I have to do for some patches I'm working on, but it would also be nice to just be able to check if the library is open, and if not, to open it. So the question is, is there a way to check if a certain abstraction is already open? if i understand right, what you want to do, implementing such a test mechanism is very easy. put this somewhere into your abstraction: [r isitthere] | [s yesitsthere] then you can easily check, if the library abs is open by sending a bang to [s isitthere]. when you receive a bang on [r yesitisthere], your abstraction is obviously open :-) roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GL: invalid enumerant Gem, Ubuntu Edgy Eft
On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 16:22 -0600, chris clepper wrote: Send a 'mode 0' to pix_texture. I find it hard to believe that ATI's current Linux driver would not support rectangle textures though. believe it or not, but since i switched to ubuntu and tried to use Gem, i have this specific problem (which was more than a year ago). on the other hand, i strongly believe, that this question comes up again and again, until it is changed in the gem-code. roman cgc On 1/31/07, Fanouris Moraitis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have the following error when I try to use pix_texture GL: invalid enumerant and also the texture is not loading. (For anyone that is interested in order to build pd under Ubuntu Edgy Eft with and Ati Mobility radeon X300 graphic card I had first to follow the directions in the following link http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Edgy_Installation_Guide it is important to use ati-driver-installer-8.33.6-x86.x86_64.run otherwise pd was crashing every time that I closed the gemwin) thanks, fanouris ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: Maximum Array Size (Again! was: [PD] array arrow test7)
hello everyone iirc, there was a discussion about arrays and a problem to read huge arrays with [tabread4~]. due to a limitation of 32bit-floats, it's not possible to read huge arrays continously after a certain point, because the index cannot represent each integer, when it is higher than a certain value. i am not sure anymore, but i think, the maximum index is 2 ^ 23 = 8388608, which would make it possible to read out an array without artefacts of 8388608 / 44100 = 190s length. matju, who left this list, has explained that much nicer and more accurate. unfortunately i couldn't find that post anymore. anyway, the moral of this story is, that bigger arrays than 3min should be avoided, otherwise artefacts are expected. roman On Wed, 2007-01-31 at 08:48 -0600, Kyle Klipowicz wrote: Yes, this is a built-in limitation that can be modified in the source code. You could try writing a multi-array patch that uses seamless transitions or do as Andy suggested. Or you could modify the source, and recompile. References: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2003-04/011065.html (change source) http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2003-04/011065.html (other discussion/caveats) Actually, I just found this message from Miller (April, 2003): 'Alternatively, just specify -maxsize 10 (or whatever) in the read message. Oops, still no usable help window for read/writesf... I've got that in the pipe for the next release.' (http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2003-04/011069.html) Does anybody know if this was implemented? I have no way to test right now, but that would be great. ~Kyle On 1/31/07, padawan12 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Echo! Tip: Don't use files longer than 2 mins :) Best way is to use [sfread~] instead. Andy On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:37:54 +0100 Echo Ho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hallo pidier i'm using Core 2 Duo mac book , and i don't know if the flowing problem is a os x (10.39 pd 0.39.2 extended test 7 or not: it doesn't load to array properly, when a sound file is longer than 2 Min. Message | read -resize -maxsize le+08 | error: soundfiler_read: truncated to 400 elements warning: array array1: clearing save-in-patch flag error: usage: read [flags] filename tablename... flags: -skip n -nframes n -resize -maxsize n ... -raw headerbytes channels bytespersamp endian (b, l, or n). it works with a old extended version on G4... ;-( is there any tip for me? (\ /) [- . - ___earweego_sonicvision www.earweego.net ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Re: pd with jack DIO errors
On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 17:07 +0200, ugur guney wrote: # Sorry, the cause of the problem was me. After I tried an another program amSynth, same distorted sounds appeared and I understood that the problem is not pd spesific. I played with the configuration of jackd and when I set the Periods/Buffer = 3 (rather than 2) everthing worked fine. I'm supposing that this is due to my non-real-time kernel. Sorry for occupying your inboxes. -uğur- hey man, no problem at all. cool, that you could solve your problem anyway. i don't know if the needed period/buffer-number has anything to do with realtime-kernel. what combinations of period/buffer-numbers and framesizes in jackd work or not on a specific soundcard, is still a big mysterium for me. from my experience, each audio device requires absolutely different settings. in the worst case, only one combination works. roman On 2/1/07, ugur guney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: # Hi all, # I've just compiled PD with ./configure --enable-jack options. My jack version is: jackd -V jackd version 0.102.29 tmpdir /dev/shm protocol 16 # I'm using jack with freebob in order to use my M-Audio Firewire Solo. (Freebob's version is 1.0.0) Jack runs without problems and Xruns (with 10 ms latency.) but when I use Jack as audio device I get many DIO errors, and the sound comes very distorded. In contrast OSS device works well. (OSS uses a SoundBlaster Live! soundcard). (And I'm using Ubuntu 6.10) # What may be the cause of this problem? I was never so close to make music under Linux! -ugur- ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Dynamic generation of $0-including objects?
On Fri, 2007-02-09 at 02:12 +0900, hard off wrote: this thread is brought to you by the letter [$0] and the word [kludge] (i promise no more jokes for the next few weeks. my pd tracker is starting to make sounds, so i have some drumloops to cut.) i am very ok with your jokes :-) btw, i sometimes read in this list about the projects you're working on, e.g. something like a filter-shaper based synth and now you are talking about a tracker. it would be nice, if these projects would find their way also into netpd. i hope there will be more happen in netpd in the next days (at least i will have more time again). cheers roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] 2 pole lpf with resonance?
On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 10:22 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: However [biquad~] doesn't have audio inputs to set the coeffs. Alternatively you could use the elementary filters [rpole~], [rzero~] etc. They accept signals for their parameters. Maybe I should sit down and build a 2plp now ... yes, please do so!... ;-) roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] output grayscale value of pixels in a video
On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 09:38 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: mfg.ntr-a IOhannes please tell us now, what 'mfg.ntr-a' stands for... roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[bang~]-question (was:[PD] measuring time between audio events (clicks))
hi all as i understand the object [bang~], it should output a 'bang' on each dsp-cycle. this seems to work with blocksizes = 64, but apparently not with smaller blocksizes. i made the following patch to measure the time between the dsp-cycles: [bang~] | [t b b] | | [timer] | [nbx ] when i put this into a subpatch and set the blocksize to a value 64 (e.g. 32, 16, 8 etc.) using the [block~] object, it still measures 1.333 (pd runs @ 48kHz currently). why is this? is [timer] or [bang~] buggy? do i understand something wrong? roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] measuring distance between speaker and microphon
hi all i'd like to create a patch, that measures the distance between the speaker and the microphone. my first problem is, that i don't know which kind of signal would be suitable for that purpose. the simplest is to use a dirac impulse. but on the receiver-side it's hard to separate unwanted artefacts from the impulse itself. also it would be nice, if it would be possible to detect the signal reliably at different amplitudes, since the amplitude heavily changes when moving the mic closer to and farer from the speaker. i am looking for a method, that allows higher precision than the usual block-size (which introduces a grid of ~0.5m @ 44100Hz, which is not very accurate). also should it be possible to detect the signal correctly, when there was reverberation added from a room. i know, there are ultrasonic-bases devices to measure a distance to a wall, but i don't have clue how they work, but it makes me hope, that something similar is possible with pd. any hints are much appreciated. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] floats getting forced into int
hi david pd doesn't distinguish between floats and ints, since all numbers are 32-bit-floats in pd (whereas max/msp DOES distinguish between floats and ints). so what actually happens in your example, is that all numbers are converted to floats (ints are converted to floats, not the other way around). afaict, this shouldn't be a problem as long as you stay in pd. a problem might occur, when you want to send numbers from pd to another app like max/msp. when you want to send '1.0', this is turned to '1' by pd, so the app on the other side might think, it is an int, though it is meant to be a float. i don't know of a nice way yet to overcome this. roman On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 08:35 -0500, David Brynjar Franzson wrote: Hey, I am working on a project that sends OSC messages from PD, and for some reason, when dealing with message lists of mixed objects, such as [send /OSC/blah 0.0 1.0 1.0], PD turns the floating point numbers into int, but only when they represent whole numbers. Can anyone think of a work around where they stay as floating point, or is there some simple solution that I am missing (I can't be bothered to hack up an external just to solve this). thanks, db ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] State Saving - Summary
hello some notes about the state saving system used by netpd: the state saving is more a side effect, since the main goal was to provide a system, that makes sure, that all patches have the same state, no matter when a user joins a running session. since that was implemented, it was very easy to use the same system to write states into files and store them again. the netpd-framework only provides functionality to save states of single patches. if you want to save the state of all opened patches, you would need to write your own preset-manager (which is not that difficult and there are already examples). anyway, the netpd-state saving system is made for netpd and does only work for netpd. also i think that other systems like ssad are a bit more straightforward (though i haven't had a deep look into it yet). supports: -floats -symbols -arbitrary lists -arrays (-and some specialized types more..) disadvantages: - is not universal, works only in netpd roman On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 14:16 +0100, Luigi Rensinghoff wrote: Since it is an ever returning subject maybe its good to have a summarized topic for this. Could someone just give a list of existing state-saving-systems and describe pro's and con's and the state of complexity ? i think that could be very helpful for beginners ;-) Thanks Luigi ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Sampler loop strategies
On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 21:26 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, David Powers hat gesagt: // David Powers wrote: On 2/14/07, Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Dafydd Hughes hat gesagt: // Dafydd Hughes wrote: The best solution I can think of is to use 2 tabread4~'s, crossfading for every pass of the loop. Anybody have a better idea? I'd do the looping a bit differently: Standard would be to use a [phasor~] scaled so that it plays a certain section of the sample with [tabread4~]. I'm not sure this is good, for most uses. You can't assume that you have good loop points, I like to set random loop points on the fly, in fact - and so I think you really do need two buffers, because you are fading out the start at the same time you are fading in the beginning - otherwise you get clicks. Or am I missing something in your explanation? Actually I was assuming that you have good loop points indeed. From my (short) tracker days I remember that tuning the loop points in a sample was an important step to get it right. Fading in and out or cross has the disadvantage that you may get artifacts from the amplitude modulation. this leads me to question, that is coming up to my mind again and again, but i still didn't come to a satisfying conclusion. there is another method of getting clickfree loops, that hasn't been discussed yet: detect zerocrosses and loop only from zero-cross to a zero-cross. but how are such things implemented in pd? the only way i can imagine to detect zero-crosses is to convert each audio-block to list of floats using [pack~] from zexy. this approach actually means, doing all the detection stuff in the 'message-domain', which is very cpu-consuming. how does one overcome this problem? this problem arises always, when an event (message) should be triggered on certain conditions in an audio-stream. i know a lot of such cases and it's always difficult, when not impossible to do it in pd. it can be quite frustrating to know the solution for certain problem, but at the same time being unable to implement it. i have the feeling, that these kinds of tasks are often delegated to externals, which is a pitty, since pd is an AUDIO-programming language. did i miss something very fundamental in pd, that would answer all these questions? roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netPD_0.40-2_WinXP: Can't Load Patches
hi there are quite a lot of things that i should know in order to give you a good advise. maybe the simplest way to find a solution is to meet me in the the netpd-chat or #dataflow in irc. i am currently at work, but usually i am quite often logged in (and i might will be in the evening). -did you install http://www.netpd.org/software/compilations/pd-netpd-win32.zip (which needs almost no additional configuration). -did you put the main-patches into netpd/patches and the abs into netpd/abs? -does the error occur, when you want to load bassist with creator? -are all patches causing troubles on load or only some of them? -what is the whole error output? -what does 'find - find last error' say? ... hm... meet me online ;-) roman On Fri, 2007-02-16 at 23:30 +1100, J0sipZL4tko_5tojsic wrote: Can't load a few of the patches. In particular bassist giver the followin diagnostic error: unpack: type mismatch ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] mp3cast~
On Thu, 2007-02-15 at 15:41 +, Richard Lewis wrote: Hey all, Does mp3cast~ still exist? If so, does anyone where/how to get it? Or even better, is there a Debian package that contains it? yes, you find a binary for linux here: http://ydegoyon.free.fr/software.html the source is also available in cvs in ../externals/unauthorized/mp3cast~/ cheers roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GEM - alpha blending of images over movies
On Sat, 2007-02-17 at 08:10 +1100, Item State wrote: ok, thanks for clarification. but what about pix_movie, it seems to be in another domain than pix_image because i cannot apply the processes to it that i can apply to pix_image. this is because [pix_movie] has [pix_texture] already 'built-in'. the equivalent to [pix_image] would be [pix_film], which requires an extra [pix_texture] to be textured onto a 3d-object. also pix_image needs either pix_draw or pix_texture - pix_rectangle, yes (though i think you mean [rectangle] here instead of [pix_rectangle], which does something different). while pix_movie goes directly into pix_rectangle without an intermitting pix_texture, and yes (also here i assume you mean [rectangle]) it cannot be plugged into pix_draw ...? exactly, because [pix_draw] wants a pix, not a texture. roman ciao, -sciss- --- Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2007-02-17 at 06:32 +1100, Item State wrote: unfortunately i have the same problem with your patch (psychedelic colours). the [colorRGB] is pretty cool, it does exactly what i want, but this only works here with [pix_texture] but have no effect when using [pix_draw] instead... i hope i can clarify this a bit in my own (maybe not too correct) words. there are actually two different domains in Gem: opengl and 'pix'es. all opengl-based stuff is renderend on the gpu (graphic card's cpu), whereas all pixel-based objects are calculated on the cpu. playing and processing videos and pictures happens in the pix-domain (afaik, all pix_*-objects work in that domain). pix_texture is used to convert an image (from a picture or a video) to a texture, that can be applied to a vertex . that means the picture is then in the opengl-domain and cannot be processed with pix_*-objects anymore. so there are actually two (or more?) ways of alpha-blending a picture: 1) do everything in the pix-domain and use [pix_alpha] (i'm not quite sure anymore about that) 2) give it to the opengl-domain using [pix_texture] and use the fourth (alpha-channel-)inlet of [colorRGB]. the latter approach has the advantage, that everything is rendered on gpu, which saves you a lot of cpu-power. whenever you can, i would do stuff in the opengl-domain (unless you don't have any 3d-acceleration enabled). i hope i didn't tell you something completely wrong (please someone correct me, if i did) roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: metro vs. samm~ [was: Re: [PD] Re: pix_film more questions]
On Mon, 2007-02-19 at 04:39 +, padawan12 wrote: If I understood Erics paper correctly [samm~] allows you to specify which sample of a block is set consistently, if you like a periodic version of [dirac~]. That's surely useful if you want to do somthing in the signal domain like convolution with a impulse train. What I couldn't figure, is this really equivilent to [phasor~ 0.0173474647] very accurate signal phasor hehe, i think the number format used in pd doesn't allow such a high accuracy ;-) | [=~ 0.9] floated 1.0 so we get an equivilence which should give a single sample set on the top of each phasor cycle. But I seem to remember this not working properly for some reason. not each edge of a signal generated by [phasor~] lies exactly on 1 or 0 because of the grid introduced by the samplingrate. see attached patch. roman On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:53:52 +0100 Frank Barknecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, [EMAIL PROTECTED] hat gesagt: // [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you're worried by metro's irregularity then you should use Eric Lyons' samm~ (sample accurate multiple metronomes). This is described in http://www.sarc.qub.ac.uk/~elyon/LyonPapers/SampleAccurate-Lyon-ICMC2006.pdf Note that samm~ is almost exactly as sample-accurate as Pd's metro. I tried to illustrate this in attached patch. samm~ however is also available for Max, where the metro according to Eric's paper is not as accurate as the one in Pd, so if you need to move patches between both systems, samm~ is a good choice. Of course Eric's system has some convenient extensions to generate polyrhythms etc., but timing alone IMO is no reason to exchange [metro] with [samm~] on Pd. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list #N canvas 736 523 450 300 10; #X obj 74 166 tabwrite~ array; #X obj 60 124 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1; #X obj 95 210 table array 40; #X msg 184 74 44100; #X floatatom 62 37 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 184 98 / 8; #X obj 65 7 hsl 128 15 0 1 0 0 empty empty empty -2 -8 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 7100 1; #X obj 88 125 phasor~; #X obj 184 45 loadbang; #X msg 143 77 7237; #X text 232 71 - choose frequency; #X text 212 10 - set phase; #X text 211 211 - watch signal; #X connect 1 0 0 0; #X connect 3 0 5 0; #X connect 4 0 1 0; #X connect 4 0 7 1; #X connect 5 0 7 0; #X connect 6 0 4 0; #X connect 7 0 0 0; #X connect 8 0 3 0; #X connect 9 0 7 0; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Re: pix_film more questions (Roman Haefeli)
hi i don't know to which mail you are answering, but i still believe, that pd's [metro] is absolute accurate (even sub-sample-accurate), when used in combination with [vline~] for example. the only case, where it could be considered inaccurate, is when cpu-load is too high, though when writing to a file, it is still accurate. roman On Sun, 2007-02-18 at 11:21 +1100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you're worried by metro's irregularity then you should use Eric Lyons' samm~ (sample accurate multiple metronomes). This is described in http://www.sarc.qub.ac.uk/~elyon/LyonPapers/SampleAccurate-Lyon-ICMC2006.pdf ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Dynamic patching questions
On Sun, 2007-02-18 at 01:55 -0500, marius schebella wrote: try to create the gui objects with all its arguments. documentation about how to create arguments is not easy to find, but exists. maybe search the archieves. or just have a look at the pd-file with a text-editor. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] fader gain
hi derek
as Dafydd mentioned it, i use also a 'squared' scale. it is somehow in
the middle of the both extremes 'linear' and 'logarithmic'. linear is a
pain, when trying to adjust the volume in the low level area, whereas
the 'logarithmic' scale is too accurate in that area.
i'd say 'mathematically' correct is, what makes sense for your ears,
since all scales are 'mathematically' correct, but different. i
remember, that miller pucket posted once, that he uses {0-1}^4 (square
of a square).
roman
On Sun, 2007-02-18 at 23:51 +0100, Derek Holzer wrote:
I've been using the following to control the output volume of a channel
from my MIDI faders:
[ctlin 7 1] (in from faderbox)
|
[* 0.787402] (scale 0-127 to 0-100)
|
[dbtorms]
|
[pack 0 50]
|
[*~] (multiplied by sound from channel)
I know that this is the mathematically correct way to do decibels to
RMS, but it doesn't sound right. The bottom 2/3rds of the slider are
almost silent, then the sound comes in very loud at the top. What other
kind of setup are people using to control gain?
d.
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Re: [PD] measuring distance between speaker and microphon
hi mikka thank you very much for all that detailed information and sorry for my late reply. i didn't have too much time and i really wanted to have a closer look at this before answering. i am on linux, so i couldn't test your external. but from what you describe in your mail, it follows a similar approach i tried as well, the only difference is that yours obviously works, whereas i've had bad luck yet with my tests ;-). maybe i am wrong, but i believe that the method you describe could be implemented in plain pd without using externals (this is at least what i hope). am i right in thinking that the analysis part of your external also high pass filters the incoming signal from the mic and the measures the time, until a certain amplitude of the signal is triggered? i have many problems implement this nicely. the main problem is i think is, that i maybe should do the trigger mechanism adaptively, so that it works on changing levels. how is that done in your external? if you don't mind, it would be nice to have the source code of your external, so that i could at least try to compile it, though i am not a programmer myself and maybe i fail without a ready-made makefile. but it's sure worth a try. thank you again for sharing all that information about this topic. best roman On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 16:51 +0200, Miikka Tikander wrote: Hi, I made some externals for binaural acoustic positioning for my work some time ago and it also included some externals for acoustic distance measurements. I was supposed to polish them up to be published on my website but I never got that far... Anyway, here's one simple patch with one of the distance measurement externals. The external is an OSX version but I know I have a linux version somewhere as well. If needed I can try to find it and send it as well, or maybe I'll send the source so people can compile it themselves if interested. It should be compilable WIN and Linux as well. As there's no documentation in the patch, here's a brief documentation for the patch and the external. The DIST_HP~ external sends high-passed ( 17 kHz) impulses from the loudspeaker and then measures the fly-time of these impulses to two microphones (here input channels 1 and 2). The slider on the upper right hand corner (Impuse interval) sets the time interval (in 64 sample blocks) of the impulses, that is, how often the distance is measured. The last two outlets of the DIST_HP gives out the distance of the microphones to the loudspeaker in meters. I put a mean and a median filter on there as well to smooth the data but you may use whatever is appropriate. The distance is computed in sample accuracy. The 'free_distance_in_meters' -outlet transforms the impulse time interval to a physical distance. This, in principal, should be greater than the longest microphone-loudspeaker distance you will use. The calibration is done by using the calibration_latency -number on the left. Place a microphone to a known distance from the loudspeaker and then tune the calibration_latency so that the measured distance is correct. Increasing the latency increases the measured distance. The measured distance cycles from 0 to the free_distance_in_meters. So, when increase the calibration_latency and the measured distance reaches the free_distance_in_meters it will go back to zero and continue from there. The volume slider sets the output volume of the impulses. Note, that the impulses are high passed above 17 kHz so actually not everybody will here them! Be cautious with the volume. The whole idea of using higher frequency range was to make the impulses inaudible, and to avoid interference from room reflection and from other sounds as well. I have a version which uses full band impulses as well, but then the reflections start to worsen things.. You must use 44,1 kHz sampling frequency. Hope, it works and is usable. Once I get little extra time, I'll try to get the rest of the stuff organized and documented so I can publish them here as well. Any feedback or criticism is always welcome. -miikka On Feb 14, 2007, at 2:18 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: hi all i'd like to create a patch, that measures the distance between the speaker and the microphone. my first problem is, that i don't know which kind of signal would be suitable for that purpose. the simplest is to use a dirac impulse. but on the receiver-side it's hard to separate unwanted artefacts from the impulse itself. also it would be nice, if it would be possible to detect the signal reliably at different amplitudes, since the amplitude heavily changes when moving the mic closer to and farer from the speaker. i am looking for a method, that allows higher precision than the usual block-size (which introduces a grid of ~0.5m @ 44100Hz, which is not very accurate
Re: [PD] mp3cast~ again
hello Richard
On Mon, 2007-02-19 at 15:15 +, Richard Lewis wrote:
Hey there,
I'm trying to use mp3cast~ with Icecast 1.
Initially I had a patch where the settings messages ('passwd', 'mountpoint',
etc.) for the mp3cast~ were sent when the patch was loaded and the 'connect'
and 'disconnect' messages were sent in response to other events. In this
setup I got all the expected messages from PD but I couldn't connect to the
mp3 streams, my clients just said that Icecast was returning a 404 error.
[mp3cast~]'s output on the pd-window should give you a hint, whether it
could connect to the icecast-server or not. if nothing tells you, that
connection failed or something like that, i would assume that it could
connect correctly and that the problem might be with the connection
between client-app and server.
some random possible problems, that come to my mind:
-did you try to connect the client on the right port (e.g.
http://yourhost.com:8080/yourstream.mp3 ) ?
-is the port not blocked by a firewall?
I wondered whether perhaps it might help if I sent all the settings messages
every time I sent 'connect' so I altered my patch. Now, it tells me that I'm
sending a Bad Password.
the only thing i know, is that before the [connect(-messages all other
settings-messages should be sent.
I tried altering the password in the icecast.conf file (which is very
confusing and difficult on Debian) but it still doesn't like it. I wanted to
tell makepasswd what password I wanted (by default it just makes up random
passwords!) so I did this:
$ echo apassword | makepasswd --verbose --crypt --clearfrom=-
hm my icecast-server (v2.3.1) has a configuration-file called
icecast.xml, where the password is written in plain-text (the file is in
xml-format). so no makepasswd and stuff is needed. i don't know if
icecast.conf works differently.
which seemed to work. I copied the encrypted version into my icecast.conf
file. I guess thats right?
In PD, can you send send messages in any particular order? If so, would it
matter what order I sent the 'connect' and 'passwd' messages to mp3cast~?
yes, you can send the messages in a certain order in pd and yes, it DOES
matter when sending the settings-messages to [mp3cast~]. first set all
settings like passwd, mountpoint, bitrate etc and after this send the
[connect blabla.com 8080(-message. you could put all settings-messages
in one single message-box, separated by a ',' like for example:
[name streamname, mountpoint yourstream.mp3, icecast2, password
yourpasswd, mpeg 44100 128 1 4(
good luck
roman
On the other hand, of course, that's probably not the problem anyway. Its
more
likely that my initial approach is best, I just need to find out why Icecast
isn't serving up the mp3 streams...
Cheers,
Richard
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Re: [PD] pduino set serial line device
On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 01:34 +0100, media.gambler wrote: hello list! i'm trying to get my arduino board to run with pd. i work on a g4 powerbook, OS 10.4.8 with the latest installer from hans, Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7. the arduino works fine with processing, the blinking led test file works, so i upload the pd_firmware. when i open the arduino-help file everything seems to work fine, i can open a connection and get this message: [comport] opened serial line device 1 (/dev/tty.Bluetooth-PDA-Sync) - is this already wrong? is that the correct type of connection? i assume not. for example on my computer, the arduino is on /dev/ttyUSB0 . to open that device with comport, i have to send a message [open 8(. the help-file of arduino has only a radio, that covers the range from 0-7. but on many systems the right address is much higher than 7 (e.g 48). i don't know what is usual on osx, but i would try any number up to 100, until you see something like /dev/ttyUBS0 (this is on linux, don't know about osx). roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Gem]: [pix_texture] doesn't work
hello all
after not touching a working gem-compile for a few weeks now, i tried
Gem again for a course in my study. but it seems. it doesn't work
correctly anymore.
whenever i have a patch open with a [pix_texture] in the render-chain
and i try then to create the the gem-window ('create'-[gemwin]), the
window border appears, but the window-content is not redrawn (the
desktop from behing is still shown) and i see the following message in
the pd-window:
'fglrx: Failed to map back buffer!'
and i get this message when turning rendering on:
'GL: invalid enumerant'
my version of gem is:
GEM: ver: 0.91-cvs
GEM: compiled: Nov 30 2006
i am on ubuntu dapper with the fglrx-driver from the ubuntu-repository.
it worked in earlier days and i did not recompile gem since then. i
tried to recompile a checkout from today, but when gem is loaded during
pd-startup, i get:
/usr/local/lib/pd/extra/Gem.pd_linux: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/Gem.pd_linux:
undefined symbol: glUniform2i
(can i avoid this by disabling a certain switch in ./configure?)
all other apps that i have installed and use opengl (armagetron,
blender, mplayer -vo gl) work without any problems and are able to show
textures. gem is the only app, that doesn't work as expected. but when
start X without dri enabled, [pix_texture] works.
any help very appreciated.
roman
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Re: [PD] [Gem]: [pix_texture] doesn't work
hi IOhannes thank you for the fast reply. in the meantime i tried the binary from Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7-ubuntu-dapper-i386 and: it worked well. On Wed, 2007-02-21 at 16:42 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: hi Roman Haefeli wrote: my version of gem is: GEM: ver: 0.91-cvs GEM: compiled: Nov 30 2006 so you have not changed Gem but you have updated your driver and now it doesn't work any more? exactly, at least iirc, ubuntu's package manager once update some fglrx-packages i am on ubuntu dapper with the fglrx-driver from the ubuntu-repository. it worked in earlier days and i did not recompile gem since then. i tried to recompile a checkout from today, but when gem is loaded during pd-startup, i get: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/Gem.pd_linux: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/Gem.pd_linux: undefined symbol: glUniform2i (can i avoid this by disabling a certain switch in ./configure?) yes, finally there is! use ./configure --with-glversion=1.5 or - even better - get drivers that provide header-files which match. hm... how can i make sure, that i have the correct headerfiles? as far as i can tell i didn't install new headerfiles manually. the fact, that the the binary from hcs' pd-extended works, makes me think, that the problem is specific to my system (wrong headers?). what do i need to do in order to make sure, that i the ./configure of gem looks at the correct headers, respectively that i only have the correct headers installed? all other apps that i have installed and use opengl (armagetron, blender, mplayer -vo gl) work without any problems and are able to show textures. gem is the only app, that doesn't work as expected. but when start X without dri enabled, [pix_texture] works. does the rest of Gem work or is it just the textures? with my own compile i didn't try everything, but i tried some of the help-patches and i had troubles with [pix_texture] (resp. any file that contains [pix_texture] like pid_image.pd, pix_video.pd and pix_film.pd and the like) and with [model]. but i only tried an obj-file with around 5000 polygons, that worked on another ubuntu-ppc machine with the gem-install from the distro. in any case, please file a bug-report at http://sf.net/projects/pd-gem yes, thank you for the link. i'll do so, if things really look like not me/my system being the problem but gem. roman mfa.dr IOhannes ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem]: [pix_texture] doesn't work
hi IOhannes
On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 11:13 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
Roman Haefeli wrote:
hi IOhannes
thank you for the fast reply. in the meantime i tried the binary from
Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7-ubuntu-dapper-i386 and: it worked well.
which version of Gem is this?
GEM: ver: 0.91-cvs
GEM: compiled: Jan 5 2007
use ./configure --with-glversion=1.5
or - even better - get drivers that provide header-files which match.
hm... how can i make sure, that i have the correct headerfiles? as far
as i can tell i didn't install new headerfiles manually. the fact, that
the the binary from hcs' pd-extended works, makes me think, that the
problem is specific to my system (wrong headers?). what do i need to do
in order to make sure, that i the ./configure of gem looks at the
correct headers, respectively that i only have the correct headers
installed?
the problem is, that your packageing system installs headers which
conform to openGL-2.0 but your driver (this is: the binary library) doesn't.
this is a known issue with ati-drivers, but it appeared to happen with
mesaGL too in recent versions.
i am not sure whether this could be considered really a bug on the
driver (header) side, but i tend to think so.
i could of course create tests during the configure process that test
for each and every openGL function used by Gem whether it is really
supported by the driver. but this is like writing the headers yourself,
and i don't see a reason to do that (why are headers provided?)
i don't know of any other way to test these things at (configure or)
compile time, therefore i leave it to the user to decide.
(it is not that i haven't tried to find a generic way to check; but i
haven't found any working solution, so i did the configure-flag; thanks
to ico for the trigger)
some my advice is:
if you experience problems with unresolved openGL-symbols, try to lower
the maximum openGL-version manually via the --with-glversion argument
until Gem runs.
ok. i'll try that. many thanks for all that info.
on the long run Gem will switch to glew (this has been around for years)
which might fix these problems.
sounds good :-)
with my own compile i didn't try everything, but i tried some of the
help-patches and i had troubles with [pix_texture] (resp. any file that
contains [pix_texture] like pid_image.pd, pix_video.pd and pix_film.pd
so this means, that trivia like the red-square example did work?
yes, i didn't test too much, but many things worked ok, e.g all geos and
'standard' objects like [translate{XYZ}], [color{RGB}].
i'll try to compile again. many thanks again for all the help.
roman
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Re: [PD] [Gem]: [pix_texture] doesn't work
On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 11:13 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: some my advice is: if you experience problems with unresolved openGL-symbols, try to lower the maximum openGL-version manually via the --with-glversion argument until Gem runs. i tried: ./configure --with-glversion=1.5 the good news is: no undefined symbols anymore, when loading gem. the bad news: the problems i had before recompiling persists. [pix_texture] still doesn't work. roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem]: [pix_texture] doesn't work
On Thu, 2007-02-22 at 10:25 -0600, chris clepper wrote: On 2/22/07, Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the bad news: the problems i had before recompiling persists. [pix_texture] still doesn't work. Send 'mode 0' to pix_texture. Does it work then? no. i am aware of this problem. when i use the precompiled binary from Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7-ubuntu-dapper-i386 it works after sending it 'mode 0'. but when i load the Gem.pd_linux i compiled myself from cvs and i load a patch with a [pix_texture] in the render chain and i create the gemwin and then start rendering, i get: GL: invalid enumerant and the gem-window is not redrawn (doesn't get black or show any objects) roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Any way to convert numeric symbols to floats?
hello luke$ i don't have a real solution at hand right now, but you could send the numbers over a socket using a [netsend]/[netreceive]-pair. if you strip the symbol selector before sending, the [netreceive] interprets numeric values as floats. roman On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 03:40 -0700, Luke Iannini (pd) wrote: I know this probably falls into the category of string discussion, but I'm interested if there are any solutions to this currently employable: I have a symbol that I'm splitting up in order to extract numerical content from the text. I'm using zexy's s2l for this, then routing the float data back into l2s to assemble a value. But l2s only spits out a symbol, and I can't seem to find any object to reinterpret the symbol as a float. Even using list trim to remove the symbol selector leaves me with a numeric message that pd still refuses to interpret as such. [float] won't take it, nor will [t f], and [list] just turns it back into a symbol. I've attached a patch demonstating this issue. The only solution I can think of is to make a decimal interpreter to assemble my number rather than l2s (since s2l spits out the list as floats just fine), but that seems a bit silly. I look forward to the discussion : ). Luke ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Gem] angles - vector translation
hello everyone
i am working on a gem-patch. i want to make the user feel like flying
freely through the 3d-space (what an ugly old-schooled sentence, i
know ;-).
the problem i have is, that when i rotate the world, i would like the
user to fly in the same direction, so that when moving the vanishing
point stays in the middle of the gemwin to create the feeling of always
looking forward.
in other words, i need to 'translate' the rotation done with [rotateXYZ]
by the three axes X, Y and Z to a vector {x,y,z}, so that the user flies
in the same direction as he is looking to.
i was told that what i want to achieve is done with a matrix, but
unfortunately my mathematical knowledge is far from being able to set it
up myself.
examples:
the user is looking to:vector to translate ('move'):
angle X = 0° Vx = 0
angle Y = 0° Vy = 0
angle Z = 0° Vz = 1
angle X = 0° Vx = -1
angle Y = 90° Vy = 0
angle Z = 0° Vz = 0
angle X = 90° Vx = 0
angle Y = 0° Vy = 1
angle Z = 0° Vz = 0
how can i compute the correct vector for any set of angles?
sorry for any inconvenience because of terms that might be used in the
wrong way. i am not a mathematician and i hope, it is still clear, what
i want to achieve.
many thanks in advance for any help.
roman
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Re: [PD] [Gem] angles - vector translation
hello marius
thanks for the hint. my first try went also in this direction, but i had
troubles to understand what is really happening. but after reading your
mail, i tried this approach again and it turned out, that this much
easier than what i was trying to before by rotating and translating the
whole world around me. now there is no more conversion needed from
angles to a vector, because the moving of the and the direction use the
same vector, so that one is looking is always into the same direction
where one is moving.
the challenge now is to find a way to create a sensefull joystick
control.
roman
On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 14:46 -0500, marius schebella wrote:
what you want to do is change the perspective, resp. view.
have a look at the help patch for gemwindow.
I am working on a better help patch, because it took me a long time to
figure out, what means what...
marius.
Roman Haefeli wrote:
hello everyone
i am working on a gem-patch. i want to make the user feel like flying
freely through the 3d-space (what an ugly old-schooled sentence, i
know ;-).
the problem i have is, that when i rotate the world, i would like the
user to fly in the same direction, so that when moving the vanishing
point stays in the middle of the gemwin to create the feeling of always
looking forward.
in other words, i need to 'translate' the rotation done with [rotateXYZ]
by the three axes X, Y and Z to a vector {x,y,z}, so that the user flies
in the same direction as he is looking to.
i was told that what i want to achieve is done with a matrix, but
unfortunately my mathematical knowledge is far from being able to set it
up myself.
examples:
the user is looking to:vector to translate ('move'):
angle X = 0° Vx = 0
angle Y = 0° Vy = 0
angle Z = 0° Vz = 1
angle X = 0° Vx = -1
angle Y = 90° Vy = 0
angle Z = 0° Vz = 0
angle X = 90° Vx = 0
angle Y = 0° Vy = 1
angle Z = 0° Vz = 0
how can i compute the correct vector for any set of angles?
sorry for any inconvenience because of terms that might be used in the
wrong way. i am not a mathematician and i hope, it is still clear, what
i want to achieve.
many thanks in advance for any help.
roman
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Re: [PD] [Gem] angles - vector translation
On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 14:46 -0500, marius schebella wrote: what you want to do is change the perspective, resp. view. have a look at the help patch for gemwindow. I am working on a better help patch, because it took me a long time to figure out, what means what... hey, that would be nice. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [Gem] angles - vector translation
On Sat, 2007-02-24 at 14:11 +0100, Patco wrote: Roman Haefeli a écrit : On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 14:46 -0500, marius schebella wrote: what you want to do is change the perspective, resp. view. have a look at the help patch for gemwindow. I am working on a better help patch, because it took me a long time to figure out, what means what... hey, that would be nice. roman The camera view abstraction from PMPD isn't what you was looking for? it's attached. pc. ciao patco great! this patch contains a lot of usefull stuff. i hope i can learn from it a bit. for example the mouse events are translated into the rotation of the perspective in a very intuitive way. i don't understand the math behind it yet, but i try to learn. thank you. roman ___ Der fr�he Vogel f�ngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] minor but persistent annoyances
oops, sorry about the number, i didn't want to say, it's exact 3px. i just estimated. i am working actually on linux, so i couldn't test. though, it would be interesting to see, if it's also 4px on windows. roman On Mon, 2007-02-26 at 17:40 -0500, marius schebella wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: subtract 3px on my system it's 4 pix. osx 10.4.8. tcl 8.4. m. ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gem - fading
hi nikola of course, this is possible, even very simple: [gemhead] | [alpha] [slider with range 0-1] - connect this to the 4th inlet |/ [colorRGB] [colorRGB] | [some geo aka. gem-object] you might also look at the helpfiles of: [alpha] [colorRGB] [color] roman On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 14:30 +0100, Nikola Jeremic wrote: hi list 1. i would like to fade my gem objects - fade to color (black), or fade to alpha channel. Is there any other way how i can make my object vissible/invissible (but not sending 0-1 to gem_win). thanx n. -- www.echoplex-label.de/njeremic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [Gem]: gem-pointer and [list] OR slow [repeat]
hi all it's a known trick to use [repeat] from zexy in a gem render chain to produce funny effects and to multiply the rendering of the attached objects. the problem i have here, is that i use a [repeat] with a very high iteration number (1000). after the [repeat 1000] some stuff is calculated and read from tables and then sent to gem-objects on each iteration. this works well, but on each render-cycle i get a short dropout. i use the default framerate of 20, that should make 50ms per frame, but with [realtime] i measure around 70ms. i could live with that, but i thought that this could be optimized. it's the concept of pd, that when a message is triggered, it gets completely processed in the same dsp-cycle. but when working with gem, this makes absolutely no sense, since the time between each render cycle is much higher (50ms in my case). that's why i wanted to build a slow repeat with [until] and [list], so that i can spread the 1000 iterations over the whole 50ms. unfortunately it is not possible to store a gem pointer with [list]. when i connect a [gemhead] to the right inlet of a [list] and turn rendering on, pd immediately crashes (at least here, i didn't test on other computers). i tried also to bang 'manually' the [gemhead] instead, but then the iterations don't have any effect (no objects are multiplied). is there any way to store a gem pointer? or is there another way of producing slow repeats of a gem pointer? any help appreciated! roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] spread Gem-computation over several dsp-cycles (?) (was: [Gem]: gem-pointer and [list] OR slow [repeat])
hello cyrille thank you. [any] was what i was looking for. it can store a gem-pointer. but as you mentioned it doesn't work when delayed. putting this in the render chain works and gives the expected result: [t b b a] | // [any ] but this makes pd/gem completely stuck: [t b b a] | | | | [del 10] | | // [any ] as you said, this is obviously the wrong approach. but my problem persists. unfortunately i can't see the design of gem behind the objects. so i wonder if there is still a solution. i might be wrong but in my eyes it doesn't make sense to do all the work that could be done in 50ms in only 1.45ms. the problem i have with my gem patch (and probably other gem-patches have as well) is that during one dsp-cycle the cpu is hopelessly overloaded, whereas for the next 33 dsp-cycle there is no work to be done. how do you 'gem-cracks' (cyrille, IOhannes, chris clepper, a.o.) come along with that? are there other ways to optimize? roman On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 00:43 +0100, cyrille henry wrote: to store gem pointer, you can use the any object. but if you want to render primitive when gem does not expect it (like sprend in the 50ms as you explain), you can't expect it to render anything. in the better case, it will not crash. cyrille Roman Haefeli a écrit : hi all it's a known trick to use [repeat] from zexy in a gem render chain to produce funny effects and to multiply the rendering of the attached objects. the problem i have here, is that i use a [repeat] with a very high iteration number (1000). after the [repeat 1000] some stuff is calculated and read from tables and then sent to gem-objects on each iteration. this works well, but on each render-cycle i get a short dropout. i use the default framerate of 20, that should make 50ms per frame, but with [realtime] i measure around 70ms. i could live with that, but i thought that this could be optimized. it's the concept of pd, that when a message is triggered, it gets completely processed in the same dsp-cycle. but when working with gem, this makes absolutely no sense, since the time between each render cycle is much higher (50ms in my case). that's why i wanted to build a slow repeat with [until] and [list], so that i can spread the 1000 iterations over the whole 50ms. unfortunately it is not possible to store a gem pointer with [list]. when i connect a [gemhead] to the right inlet of a [list] and turn rendering on, pd immediately crashes (at least here, i didn't test on other computers). i tried also to bang 'manually' the [gemhead] instead, but then the iterations don't have any effect (no objects are multiplied). is there any way to store a gem pointer? or is there another way of producing slow repeats of a gem pointer? any help appreciated! roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] spread Gem-computation over several dsp-cycles (?)
hi IOhannes On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 14:46 +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Roman Haefeli wrote: hello cyrille thank you. [any] was what i was looking for. it can store a gem-pointer. but as you mentioned it doesn't work when delayed. putting this in the render chain works and gives the expected result: [t b b a] | // [any ] but this makes pd/gem completely stuck: [t b b a] | | | | [del 10] | | // [any ] as you said, this is obviously the wrong approach. but my problem persists. unfortunately i can't see the design of gem behind the objects. so i wonder if there is still a solution. this is not a question of the design of Gem but of openGL. for most objects (but the pix_ stuff), Gem directly communicates with the underlying openGL-infrastructure. for this to work, one must get hold of the openGL context. using delayed gem-messages, the openGL-context will most likely be grabbed by another application. i might be wrong but in my eyes it doesn't make sense to do all the work that could be done in 50ms in only 1.45ms. the problem i have with my gem patch (and probably other gem-patches have as well) is that during one dsp-cycle the cpu is hopelessly overloaded, whereas for the next 33 dsp-cycle there is no work to be done. on the long run i have plans to put the rendering into a separate thread. however, don't expect it too soon. hm... i am bit unsure now. chris clepper said in his previous mail, that gem rendering is not bound to the dsp-ticks. but when you say, that threading would help in this case, does that mean, the rendering _is_ bound to the dsp-ticks? do i understand something wrong? how do you 'gem-cracks' (cyrille, IOhannes, chris clepper, a.o.) come along with that? are there other ways to optimize? 2 ways: - use longer audio buffers (e.g. 100ms) for some reason, it doesn't help here. it's not the audio i care about, but that timing is lost and the desired frameperiod grows to 70ms. and what is most surprising here, sometimes i close the patch i am working on and open it again and start rendering and for some unexplainable reason: frameperiod is 50ms. this is with the same patch with the same gem-objects in gemwin. - use 2 instances of pd: one for audio and one for video; one of them (or a third one) is master and controls the rest. yeah, when i want to do audio at the same time, i'll do that. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] spread Gem-computation over several dsp-cycles (?)
On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 17:15 +0100, cyrille henry wrote: btw. http://nusmuk.free.fr/fleur/ some of those got more than 200 000 cube, (render at 1 fps for the slower). hey, soo nice pictures. do you have also a movie of them? wonderfull to see what is possible with gem. roman patch to make this is almost the LS demo patch i send to this list few time ago. ok, i don't make sound with those, but a good graphic card really improve processing speed. cyrille ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] small set of vector transforming abstractions
hi all during my trials with gem i made a little set of abstractions, that hopefully could be usefull when dealing with vectors. at least they have been for me. the set contains: [v_+] : adds two vectors [v_-] : subtracts a vector from another [v_scale] : scales a vector [v_mag] : outputs the magnitude of a vector [v_normalize] : normalizes a vector (so that its magnitude becomes 1) [v_x] : computes the cross product of two vectors [v_rotate] : rotates a vector around another let me know if you miss something or if you find it not useable at all. it can be downloaded from here: http://romanhaefeli.net/pd/v_abstractions.tar.gz roman ___ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] spread Gem-computation over several dsp-cycles (?) (was: [Gem]: gem-pointer and [list] OR slow [repeat])
as always: i forgot the attachment On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 23:24 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 07:14 -0600, chris clepper wrote: On 2/28/07, Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i might be wrong but in my eyes it doesn't make sense to do all the work that could be done in 50ms in only 1.45ms. What? GEM doesn't use the DSP clock. It will take as much time as needed to render. oops. ok For example, the current work I have uses three or four 1080i clips, a live feed and records to disk and there is no way that all runs in 1.45ms. It takes about 12-15ms! anyway, i get dropouts when doing gem-rendering, although 'top' tells me that pd uses only 20% cpu-time. i don't care much about the audio (as IOhannes mentioned, i could run two instances of pd). the problem is that the timing is not nice. i'd like to run the patch with 20 frames per second. but in praxis each cycle needs 70ms, which gives me a framerate of 14. is my gpu too slow? what happens, when the gpu is overloaded? can that cause pd to stuck? i attached a little gem-benchmark-test. although you say, gem doesn't use the dsp-clock, it takes much longer to compute the first block after a gem-rendering command. why is that? and: here on my system, the [realtime] measures up to 70ms, when i go over [repeat 1400] (under 1400 it's 50ms). the funny thing is, that it stays around 70ms, even if i set the [repeat] up to 3000 or more. why is that? here on my system, cpu-time used by pd is always 20%. sorry to ask you so much.. but i try to understand things a bit better... roman ___ Der frhe Vogel fngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list #N canvas 394 19 736 552 10; #X obj 26 123 gemwin; #X obj 26 42 sel 0 1; #X msg 26 95 0 \, destroy; #X obj 26 19 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 1 1 ; #X obj 216 102 gemhead; #X obj 216 152 translateXYZ 1 1 0; #X obj 23 152 gemhead; #X obj 23 210 world_light; #X msg 48 66 perspec -1 1 -1 1 2 2000 \, lighting 1 \, create \, 1 ; #X obj 23 177 rotateXYZ 30 -54 0; #N canvas 1115 145 249 311 measure_realtime 0; #X obj 39 40 t b b; #X obj 39 256 outlet; #X obj 39 16 gemhead; #X obj 39 141 f; #X obj 39 186 +; #X obj 39 163 * 9; #X obj 39 209 * 0.1; #X obj 39 118 t b f; #X text 97 155 smooth it a bit; #X obj 39 62 realtime; #X connect 0 0 9 0; #X connect 0 1 9 1; #X connect 2 0 0 0; #X connect 3 0 5 0; #X connect 4 0 6 0; #X connect 5 0 4 0; #X connect 6 0 3 1; #X connect 6 0 1 0; #X connect 7 0 3 0; #X connect 7 1 4 1; #X connect 9 0 7 0; #X restore 198 339 pd measure_realtime; #X floatatom 198 368 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 217 236 rotateXYZ 1 0 0; #X text 247 370 - check if it goes higher than 50ms; #X obj 217 298 cube 0.02; #X obj 217 211 translateXYZ -0.001 0 0; #X obj 217 263 translateXYZ 0 0 0.02; #X obj 31 249 bang~; #X obj 31 276 t b b; #X obj 31 300 realtime; #X obj 31 326 t b f; #X obj 31 350 f; #X obj 58 351 + 1; #X obj 31 379 pack f f; #X obj 99 245 gemhead; #X obj 99 270 b; #X obj 99 293 0; #X floatatom 31 434 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 85 435 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 127 435 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 171 436 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 214 436 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 255 437 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X text 37 457 1; #X text 94 458 2; #X text 135 458 3; #X text 180 459 4; #X text 225 459 5; #X obj 31 403 route 0 1 2 3 4 5; #X text 262 459 6; #X text 28 477 realtime measured lenght of the nth dsp-cycle after the [gemhead] starts rendering.; #X obj 216 129 rotateXYZ 0 0 90; #X obj 216 187 repeat 2000; #X text 55 17 - rendering on/off; #X floatatom 380 146 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X text 425 143 - try different 'loads'; #X connect 1 0 2 0; #X connect 1 1 8 0; #X connect 2 0 0 0; #X connect 3 0 1 0; #X connect 4 0 41 0; #X connect 5 0 42 0; #X connect 6 0 9 0; #X connect 8 0 0 0; #X connect 9 0 7 0; #X connect 10 0 11 0; #X connect 12 0 16 0; #X connect 15 0 12 0; #X connect 16 0 14 0; #X connect 17 0 18 0; #X connect 18 0 19 0; #X connect 18 1 19 1; #X connect 19 0 20 0; #X connect 20 0 21 0; #X connect 20 1 23 1; #X connect 21 0 22 0; #X connect 21 0 23 0; #X connect 22 0 21 1; #X connect 23 0 38 0; #X connect 24 0 25 0; #X connect 25 0 26 0; #X connect 26 0 21 1; #X connect 38 0 27 0; #X connect 38 1 28 0; #X connect 38 2 29 0; #X connect 38 3 30 0; #X connect 38 4 31 0; #X connect 38 5 32 0; #X connect 41 0 5 0; #X connect 42 0 15 0; #X connect 44 0 42 1; ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] spread Gem-computation over several dsp-cycles (?) (was: [Gem]: gem-pointer and [list] OR slow [repeat])
hello cyrille thank you for the adjustments. i think i understand the difference between measuring the gemhead loop and the time between 2 images. but the other thing with the optimization still remains unclear to me and it seems, that it doesn't work here. when i stop the first and start the second gemhead, the gemwin becomes black. no primitives are drawn. there is no error in the pd-window (there is only a message '[GEMglNewList]: mode=4864' when i load the patch). does the optimization need some flags enabled when compiling gem? it seems, there is so much about gem, i don't know yet (like all these objects [GEMgl*] and [GLdefine] and the like, or the message 'FSAA 4'). to understand them, is it needed to know opengl well? are these objects documented somewhere in the Gem-documentation? i am not insulted if you don't have the time to answer all these questions... cheers roman On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 11:18 +0100, cyrille henry wrote: i made some change to this abstraction in order to compute only the time use for the gemhead loop and not the time between 2 images. on my computer, it's about 11ms. but with the display list optimisation, it fall to 6ms about. cyrille Roman Haefeli a écrit : as always: i forgot the attachment On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 23:24 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote: On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 07:14 -0600, chris clepper wrote: On 2/28/07, Roman Haefeli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i might be wrong but in my eyes it doesn't make sense to do all the work that could be done in 50ms in only 1.45ms. What? GEM doesn't use the DSP clock. It will take as much time as needed to render. oops. ok For example, the current work I have uses three or four 1080i clips, a live feed and records to disk and there is no way that all runs in 1.45ms. It takes about 12-15ms! anyway, i get dropouts when doing gem-rendering, although 'top' tells me that pd uses only 20% cpu-time. i don't care much about the audio (as IOhannes mentioned, i could run two instances of pd). the problem is that the timing is not nice. i'd like to run the patch with 20 frames per second. but in praxis each cycle needs 70ms, which gives me a framerate of 14. is my gpu too slow? what happens, when the gpu is overloaded? can that cause pd to stuck? i attached a little gem-benchmark-test. although you say, gem doesn't use the dsp-clock, it takes much longer to compute the first block after a gem-rendering command. why is that? and: here on my system, the [realtime] measures up to 70ms, when i go over [repeat 1400] (under 1400 it's 50ms). the funny thing is, that it stays around 70ms, even if i set the [repeat] up to 3000 or more. why is that? here on my system, cpu-time used by pd is always 20%. sorry to ask you so much.. but i try to understand things a bit better... roman ___ Der frhe Vogel fngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list #N canvas 394 19 736 552 10; #X obj 26 123 gemwin; #X obj 26 42 sel 0 1; #X msg 26 95 0 \, destroy; #X obj 26 19 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 1 1 ; #X obj 216 102 gemhead; #X obj 216 152 translateXYZ 1 1 0; #X obj 23 152 gemhead; #X obj 23 210 world_light; #X msg 48 66 perspec -1 1 -1 1 2 2000 \, lighting 1 \, create \, 1 ; #X obj 23 177 rotateXYZ 30 -54 0; #N canvas 1115 145 249 311 measure_realtime 0; #X obj 39 40 t b b; #X obj 39 256 outlet; #X obj 39 16 gemhead; #X obj 39 141 f; #X obj 39 186 +; #X obj 39 163 * 9; #X obj 39 209 * 0.1; #X obj 39 118 t b f; #X text 97 155 smooth it a bit; #X obj 39 62 realtime; #X connect 0 0 9 0; #X connect 0 1 9 1; #X connect 2 0 0 0; #X connect 3 0 5 0; #X connect 4 0 6 0; #X connect 5 0 4 0; #X connect 6 0 3 1; #X connect 6 0 1 0; #X connect 7 0 3 0; #X connect 7 1 4 1; #X connect 9 0 7 0; #X restore 198 339 pd measure_realtime; #X floatatom 198 368 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 217 236 rotateXYZ 1 0 0; #X text 247 370 - check if it goes higher than 50ms; #X obj 217 298 cube 0.02; #X obj 217 211 translateXYZ -0.001 0 0; #X obj 217 263 translateXYZ 0 0 0.02; #X obj 31 249 bang~; #X obj 31 276 t b b; #X obj 31 300 realtime; #X obj 31 326 t b f; #X obj 31 350 f; #X obj 58 351 + 1; #X obj 31 379 pack f f; #X obj 99 245 gemhead; #X obj 99 270 b; #X obj 99 293 0; #X floatatom 31 434 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 85 435 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 127 435 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom 171 436 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X floatatom
Re: [PD] small set of vector transforming abstractions
On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 10:53 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote: Hallo, IOhannes m zmoelnig hat gesagt: // IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: why don't you just make them part of the frank's list-abstractions? Because they already are? ;) But the versions of these in [list]-abs also handle arbitrary length lists and lists including symbols (which get ignored). If you already know, that you always have 3-element float lists you can optimize stuff a bit. hey frank after a closer look to list-abs again, it turned out that almost all of the vector-abs are already implemented in list-abs and therefore could be considered obsolet. the only really new is [v_rotate] (it's _not_ the same as list-rot) and possibly [v_move], which is somehow related to [triple-scale]. however, i started with [v_rotate] which i was really missing and then one came after the other. i didn't meant to invent the wheel again. roman ___ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
