Re: [PD] PD crashing X server
JFWIW: The 4th character would be the point at which TCL resizes the object box. a. On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:45:16PM +0200, enrike wrote: Hi I just reinstalled Ubuntu to my laptop with latest version 13.04 and the latest PD extended 0.43.3. Now I am getting this weird crash. After a few objects (8 ~ 10) are created on the patch, or if I open a patch with several files, when I create an object, as I type its name in the box, just *exactly* when I type the 4th character, the X server crashes and I get into the Ubuntu login area. I see no errors at all it just restarts X going to login. I have been trying to find a pattern to explain why at some point it crashes but I cannot see any apart from the fact that few objects are on the patch and it happens with the 4th character. I have tried to check dmesg, and X log but I cannot see anything meaningful. I am not sure what to look for. thanks for any help... enrike ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Negative input numbers for [pow] return 0
If you think about it negative exponents require a completely different algorithm that is discontinuous with the one for positives. Instead of multiplying you divide n times. You can take advantage of b^-n = 1/b^n Use a [moses] and two [pow], where the negative branch then has its reciprocal, or use [abs] and [sgn] to flip the negative ones through a reciprocal. cheers, Andy On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 03:07:43PM +0100, Joe White wrote: Is this a known limitation or bug? it's most likely a feature that tries to protect you from things like: [-1( | [pow 0.5] | Ahh yeah makes sense. I'm not sure why but I always feel uneasy using [expr], maybe because of libpd :) [expr] does handle (-1)^0.5 with a NaN output though. Would it be possible to add this to [pow] as well? Something like for negative base values, non-integer exponent values would return NaN? Additionally for [pow] to output '0' seems wrong, because that is definitely not the answer. I've never seen NaN output elsewhere so I'm assuming [expr] outputs a symbol and not some Pd defined NaN type (maybe?). Thanks for the reply IOhannes! Cheers, Joe On 22 April 2013 13:30, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-04-22 14:19, Joe White wrote: Hi, Just realised putting a negative number into the [pow] object outputs '0'?!? For example if I do: [-1 ( | [pow 2] it returns 0, where I would expect it to return 1. Is this a known limitation or bug? it's most likely a feature that tries to protect you from things like: [-1( | [pow 0.5] | Are there any work arounds if I want a variable power? urgh, i had hoped to never have to tell people to use [expr], but there you go: [-1\ | [pack 0 2] | [expr pow($f1, $f2)] | [1\ vbmdf IOhannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlF1LW8ACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRWDgCffaIHH1qXGqFYLlt1iiJQFW5Q OdEAnR8WVw+zxRKd8LWjVo95daJ/Aq6Y =PbB6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] OT: Lightest Fastest Linux Window Manager
Fluxbox and Blackbox are what I would call recognisable as window managers They do the basic things you expect, mouse menus, workspaces, themes, backgrounds and so forth... and occupy a couple hundred kilobytes. Actually usable as proper serious desktop WM with a bit of customisation. Definitely appropriate for RPi or minimal systems where the standard bloatware is just too heavy. On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 06:40:54PM +, Pagano, Patrick wrote: Hello I am setting up a Asus netbook for Pure Data/Gem/pidip and would like to not load the hoggish unity or even gnome seems to slow this little guy down. Can linux users suggest a window manager that might serve me best for this purpose. Thank you in Advance. Patrick Pagano, B.S, M.F.A Assistant in Digital Arts and Science Digital Media Projection and Audio Design Digital Worlds Institute University of Florida, USA (352)294-2020 ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Fwd: absolute vs relative filepath on oggread~
On Sat, Feb 02, 2013 at 11:02:35AM +0100, Òscar Martínez Carmona wrote: yeah, lazy me (friday's afternoon...) if I use: (filename) (absolute_path_directory) I I I I I I [pack s s] I I [open $2/$1( filename and path are not symbols here. Try: [symbol filename( [symbol /path/to/stuff( | | [pack symbol symbol] | [read $2$1( ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] absolute vs relative filepath on oggread~
e.g. some objects will try to locate a relative file in any of the search-paths you specified, whereas other's will only try to to find it relative to their path (whatever that is [*]) ... [*] i've forgotten but... it's either relative to the path Pd was started in, or relative to the path the main patch lives in, or And this leads to a subtle gotchya that still catches me out; The latter path (relative to where the patch lives) only makes sense after the patch has been saved. You can bang your head against a wall looking for errors in patch that _should_ work, and then notice that the canvas name is still Untitled.pd IIRC the console report file or directory not found is unhelpful, because it does not distinguish the lack of a relative base path from an actual error in the file system or name. Something like; Current working directory not set would be really helpful if that can be trapped earlier. I grumbled about this a long time ago, and still think it's a worthy cause to debate and establish a coherent paths policy within Pd (naming and defaults _as_well_as_ search order (which has been aired before)) cheers, Andy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] absolute vs relative filepath on oggread~
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:18:00AM +0100, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote: Current working directory not set but there is _always_ a current working directory. even if your file has not beed saved. You are right. I am confusing two things worth distinguishing, the current working directory and the path to the saved file. Analogously to other environments, C/Perl/Python etc, the distinction is something like that between the variables CWD = Initially the directory from which the application was launched, but can change during an invokation FILE = a path belonging to an asset of application, the path to a script or source module. I'm not sure the latter exists in Pd, or if it would even be helpful if it did. probably adding this simple message (at a more informational loglevel than the file not found error) would help more: current working directory is ... (substitute ... with the real working directory) Yes. The console could even prepend a path like Bash $PS, although many would be annoyed by that where the path grows long. Just thinking aloud at this stage. Andy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] absolute vs relative filepath on oggread~
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 05:19:03PM +0100, Òscar Martínez Carmona wrote: I guess the solution will be using [getdir], as I read in a thread similar Not sure what will happen on Windows regarding slash separators (?) Might not be as portable as you hope. cheers, Andy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] remote desktop on the Pi and other questions about it
In a recent workshop in Nantes I covered most of these network issues. http://spectrasoft.co.uk/~andyf/NANTES0113/rpi1.pdf (there are error in this, its work in progress for another workshop in Feb) A lot of hoops to jump though, but yes you can develop on the RPi using only one CAT5 cable and power (One cable when the RPi gets PoE). Really, you need to put all these commands in a pair of scripts, one on the host and one on the RPi (actually you can put them all in the host script and run the one on the board remotely upon successful connection :) On MacOS, masquerading to get internet back through the host without a separate router is really easy. What is missing from this brief intro is the amazing use that tcpdump, netcat, and ip can be, definitely tools worth learning when developing for embedded and SBC targets. cheers Andy On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 10:40:57PM -0200, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: Hello Pi people, I just got one of these to mess with, getting it to run the OS was very simple, need help with other stuff. What do you recommend for remote desktopping (controlling the Pi via a laptop, by having the laptop's keyboard/trackpad as input and getting the screen to show what's going on). I know there's something called VNC around, but it seems to come in different softwares, which one(s) have you been using. Or, better put, just about anyone works? I got a macbook air I'd like to use that way, by the way, so I need to run from a MAC OS system. To see if I got this straight, all the hardware you need to plug them together is a crossover ethernet cable, right? That way, can the Pi also feed from the internet I'm getting into my macbook air vi wi-fi while it's being remotely controlled by the same laptop via the same cable? I guess that's it for now. I hope we can have sometime soon a nice page with several info on how to run Pd in the Pi in many ways. I could help on writting this kind of tutorial Cheers ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [rpi] X11 forwarding woes
Root cannot open a display owned by another user. Logging in as user1 and then running a forwarded X application as user2 will fail unless user2 can write to the same display. As for ssh, I think -X is deprecated in favour of -Y for many reasons Also, why use ssh? Unless you are exposing the RPi directly to the internet (It is a COW installed system, not a RO live system so could be compromised), then why bother? The encrytion overhead is quite a drag on bandwidth. At least turn the cipher to a lightweight one like Blowfish. Otherwise, open the X using xhost and export a display setting. cheers, Andy On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 03:26:01PM +0100, Charles Goyard wrote: Hi list, just starting using pd on the rpi. It works well, but there's something strange with X11 forwarding. Doing: ssh -X 192.168.1.52 pd fails with : X Error of failed request: BadAccess (attempt to access private resource denied) Major opcode of failed request: 18 (X_ChangeProperty) Doing: ssh -Y 192.168.1.52 pd works. Doing: ssh -Y 192.168.1.52 sudo pd fails with : debug2: X11 connection uses different authentication protocol. X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication. Application initialization failed: couldn't connect to display localhost:10.0 So far I'm not that concerned with real-time priority, but what's my problem ? I found some clues on the internet but they were not helpful. Commands like xterm and wish and exported to my display as needed. Thanks for any idea. Charles ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-extended 0.43.4 released!
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 03:36:41PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Its time to announce the next big Pd-extended release, 0.43.4! This release Since its official I'll like to say well done and thanks to Hans and all for the ongoing effort. a. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Portable webserver with static IP
Good to know, and hear about zeroconf success through this example. Something new to try in the future. Andy On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 11:50:50AM +0200, Pierre Massat wrote: I ended up using zeroconf on the RPi and installing bonjour on the windows machine which needed it and it works just fine. Pierre. 2012/9/27 IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoel...@iem.at -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-09-12 12:30, Olivier Heinry wrote: - or you have to setup a DHCP server on your mobile web server. *Big mess* if there's already a DHCP server on the network (likely). Well, as a secondary server, *should* work fine secondary DHCP server? chances are high, that you will take half of the machines offline with such a setup. you never ever should run multiple DHCP-servers in a subnet, unless you absolutely know what you are doing (which seems to be not the case). if you absolutely know what you are doing, you probably still won't run multiple DHCP-servers in a subnet. mfgasdr IOhannes -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlBkH9YACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvQDTgCfdRxpz4yp3PO3utTwMWqIu+WK IiMAoJF2/jZvSHkivx2jTzFpxygveRrw =cBKF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Super computer made of legos and Raspberry Pi computers
Hearing it from the front line is really interesting Chuck. I am a little envious at the excitement a project like that must produce. Do you know of Joe Deken and the suitcase supercomputer project? He is a big Pd proponent (and friend of Miller I believe) and they are also looking at R-Pi boards for their next portable cluster (I'm probably telling you stuff you already know) best Andy On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:26:56PM -0500, Charles Henry wrote: On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote: On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:24:45AM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: now my question is; spending 4k to build a Pi supercomputer can give you more power and possibilities than with a top of the line MAC for example (which will cost just as much, and be a quad core 2.7 intel i7, 1.6GHz bus, 16GB Ram). We keep using the word 'supercomputer', and maybe a bit of perspective would help clarify matters of scale. ... A supercomputer is, by definition, that which is on the cutting edge of feasible research. Most supercomputers are in a single location and not distributed or opportunistic, they usually have a building dedicated to them and a power supply suitable for a small town of a thousand homes (a few MW). A team of full time staff are needed to run them. They cost a few hundred million to build and a few tens of millions per year to operate. Current supercomputers are measured in tens of Peta FLOPS, ten to a hundred times more powerful than the equivalent mainframe, and are primarily used for scientific modelling. Yeah, but when I tell people what I do, do you think I say cluster computing or symmetric multiprocessing or CUDA applications engineer? No, I tell them I work with supercomputers--It's not a term for practitioners, since there's more specific things to say, ... and it keeps people from thinking I'm going to waste time talking about nerdy shit that I don't want to talk about anyway :) The current guise of the 'mainframe' is what we would now see as a Data Center, a floor of an industrial unit, probably much like your ISP or hosting company with many rows of racked indepenedent units that can be linked into various cluster configurations for virtual services, network presence and data storage. Aggregate CPU power in the region of 10 TFLOP to 0.5 PFLOP At the moment, I'm (the engineer) putting together the proposal for a grant for GPU computing resources (for the researchers and scientists). We're looking to spend about $750,000 on hardware that will perform about 100 TFLOPS. Mostly it will be made up of--whatever NVIDIA Tesla is most cost/power effective--in servers that will hold 4 GPUs. Altogether, we hope this fills up 5-10 racks (in our shiny new energy efficient data center with 32 racks, that the f'ing fire marshall won't let us into for another month, when we've been postponed since June anyway). Supercomputers are still supercomputers, by definition they are beyond wildest imagination and schoolboy fantasies unless you happen to be a scientist who gets to work with them. A bunch of lego bricks networked together does not give you 20PFLOP, so it does not a supercomputer make. However, there is a different point of view emerging since the mid 1990s based on concentrated versus distributed models. Since the clustering of cheap and power efficient microcomputers is now possible because of operating system and networking advances, we often hear of amazing feats of collective CPU power obtained by hooking together old Xboxes with GPUs, (Beowulf - TFLOP range) or using opportunistic distributed networks to get amazing power out of unused cycles (eg SETI at home/BOINC and other volunteer arrays, or 'botnets' used by crackers) (tens to hundreds of TFLOPS). Clustering is currently the most scalable model for supercomputers. Many expensive options exist for systems with large numbers of cores and shared memory--but year after year, more circuits get put on a single die. Generally when you think of supercomputers these days, it's a network of systems that each have a lot of x86_64 cores and a maybe nice co-processor (like the NVIDIA Tesla's). Some of the IBM machines (and Cray, still?) use pipelined multi-core processors of a different architecture and 1000s of cores on a single system, but I don't see that as a trend that will survive. Chuck ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Super computer made of legos and Raspberry Pi computers
Well, there's almost no end of applications that wouldn't be improved or made usable by a hundred-fold increase in CPU. But things that aren't currently possible for commercial or domestic use might be; In processing, blind source separation using dictionary attack to find optimal sparse decomposition; also similar to deconvolution or upmixing without prior models. In modelling; for wavefield modelling or lumped masses with a large number of nodes. In analysis; articulatory speech models to do speaker independent recognition. The practical outcomes of the first group of things are basically being able to record an orchestra with a stero mic, pull out and process individual instruments after the fact, change the hall acoustics and remix the recording. The latter stuff is more obvious, raytracing reverbs and whatnot. But being unable to brute force these things leaves the quest to understand deeper and find optimisation tricks to change the algorithm/approach, not matters of scale. When the growth order of a method is wrong throwing a room full of GPU's at it only gives you a temporary lead. On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 04:26:26PM +0900, i go bananas wrote: yeah, with this sort of thing... Miller was saying the other day how the original phase vocoder patch required $35000 worth of hardware (or whatever the actual figure was...) So i was just wondering what sort of audio things are round at the moment that can only be achieved with well beyond ordinary hardware??? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Super computer made of legos and Raspberry Pi computers
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:24:45AM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: now my question is; spending 4k to build a Pi supercomputer can give you more power and possibilities than with a top of the line MAC for example (which will cost just as much, and be a quad core 2.7 intel i7, 1.6GHz bus, 16GB Ram). We keep using the word 'supercomputer', and maybe a bit of perspective would help clarify matters of scale. Back in the mists of time /\/\/\ .. wavy lines ./\/\/\ A computer that a small business might own could be moved by one person if they really needed the exercise. After the 1980s they were called microcomputers and you could pick one up and carry it. A minicomputer had a special room of its own, and was between ten and maybe fifty times faster. You could get a good one for a hundred thousand dollars. Minis were generally for mid level industrial organisations. Notice the power factor here between the everymans computer and the top of the range generally available model, which has remained constant. The biggest price differential is over the smallest value curve, as you would expect in commercial mass market. A mainframe was an order of magnitude more powerful than a standard computer, having a whole floor to itself. Mainframes are generally for bulk data processing and were owned by governments or very large corporations. They were characterised by IO, rows of tape machines and teleprinters, more like a giant computerised office. A supercomputer is, by definition, that which is on the cutting edge of feasible research. Most supercomputers are in a single location and not distributed or opportunistic, they usually have a building dedicated to them and a power supply suitable for a small town of a thousand homes (a few MW). A team of full time staff are needed to run them. They cost a few hundred million to build and a few tens of millions per year to operate. Current supercomputers are measured in tens of Peta FLOPS, ten to a hundred times more powerful than the equivalent mainframe, and are primarily used for scientific modelling. To put this operational scale versus nomenclature into todays terms (taking into account one order of magnitide shift in power ); A microcomputer would probably be classed as a wearable, embedded or essentially invisible computer operating at a few tens or hundreds of MFLOPS, costing between one and ten dollars and operating from a lithium battery. If you have active RFID ID your credit card probably has more CPU power than an early business computer. The Raspberry Pi, gumsticks, and PIC based STAMPs occupy this spectrum. The word minicomputer now tends to denote a small desktop, notebook or smartphone, or anything that is considered 'mini' compared to the previous generation, and probably having the capabilities of a full desktop from two or three years ago. A powerful standard computer, the kind for a gaming fanatic or at the heart of a digital music/video studio is about five to ten times as powerful as the smallest micro (a much smaller gap than one might think) despite the large difference in power consumption and cost. Thse run at a few GFLOPS. What used to be a 'minicomputer' is now what might be used in a commercial renderfarm, essentially a room of clustered boxes costing tens of thousands of dollars and consuming a heavy domestic sized electricity bill. Total CPU power in the range of 10 GFLOP to 1 TFLOP The current guise of the 'mainframe' is what we would now see as a Data Center, a floor of an industrial unit, probably much like your ISP or hosting company with many rows of racked indepenedent units that can be linked into various cluster configurations for virtual services, network presence and data storage. Aggregate CPU power in the region of 10 TFLOP to 0.5 PFLOP Supercomputers are still supercomputers, by definition they are beyond wildest imagination and schoolboy fantasies unless you happen to be a scientist who gets to work with them. A bunch of lego bricks networked together does not give you 20PFLOP, so it does not a supercomputer make. However, there is a different point of view emerging since the mid 1990s based on concentrated versus distributed models. Since the clustering of cheap and power efficient microcomputers is now possible because of operating system and networking advances, we often hear of amazing feats of collective CPU power obtained by hooking together old Xboxes with GPUs, (Beowulf - TFLOP range) or using opportunistic distributed networks to get amazing power out of unused cycles (eg SETI at home/BOINC and other volunteer arrays, or 'botnets' used by crackers) (tens to hundreds of TFLOPS). Some guides to growth here with interesting figures on the estimated cost per GFLOP over the last 50 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLOPS I'm guessing that CPU wize it would be more powerful indeed; even thought it's a modest one, that's 64 cores against 4... So the issue now
Re: [PD] Super computer made of legos and Raspberry Pi computers
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 05:47:22PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote: Thanks a lot Andy, that was really informative. So I see there's no point at all comparing this super Pi rack to general computers, and that you can't run one Pd having it being served by 64 of these. cheers Actually, there's a lot of value in these arrays for DSP work, at least particular kinds of creative DSP work, because what you have is effectively a giant modular synth. Data flow is a good candidate, because the work is usually a unidirectional flow of data frames through the system. On another note, I was pondering your comment on the economics of the Pi in Brazil that you replied to Charles. Maybe I am mistaken but the real, deep objectives of the Pi foundation are to ubiquitize (yuck!!!) (maybe democratise?) production through open hardware design so that you can get a fab plant to start making them locally. I know Brazil can't compete with China on economies of scale right now, but nontheless the opportunity is there at least without any trade barries based on intellectual property nonsense. Its long past time we had a standard international unit of computing that any 10 year old kid can grab and know the other 9 billion people on the planet have access to. best Andy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] another day's raspberry pi experiences
The archives of linux-audio probably have a few gems of goodness, it has been a perennial discussion for years. Hard real time, combined with the proper timer structure is necessary where you want the device to be sequenced by incomming events like MIDI, without jittery behaviour. Raising the userland process to realtime priority will ensure sustained throughput. I think it does warrent a more serious consideration of the Broadcom BCM2835 hardware relation to kernel for musical use. No doubt compromises have been made for Raspbian to be a general purpose all round distro. Andy On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 08:25:23PM +0200, Charles Goyard wrote: You're welcome. If you can find where you read that, I'd be interrested. geoffroy wrote: Thanks for the clarification, I though I read that a RT-Kernel would improve on the pureData responsiveness for the raspberry pi, good to know that it's probably not needed. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Portable webserver with static IP
The simplest and most direct way is to go into /etc/network/interfaces and change the first entry for the interface you want to use (presumably wired ethernet eth0) to iface eth0 inet static 192.168.x.y netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.x.255 gateway 192.168.x.z Your choice of x and y shoud match your subnet and a free IP address. The value for z will be the router. BTW don't end your address with 255 as you suggested :) that is reserved for broadcast address, see the third line. The router should see this via gratuitous ARP quite quickly, no need for any other fancy announcements unless you are in a big and complicated network. Check it after reboot using ifconfig eth0 best Andy On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 04:41:33PM +0200, Pierre Massat wrote: Dear Pd-Listers, Sorry this obviously OT question. I'm trying to use my Raspberry Pi (yes I know, i'm also beginning to get fed up with its apparent ubiquity...) as by portable webserver. By portable I mean that i could carry it with me and plug it into any home router and make it accessible to every machine in the local network. The obvious problem i'm currently faced with is that of the IP given by the router to the RPi. I think it's possible to configure the RPi to have a static IP, but I have no idea how portable this solution is. Say, if I configured my RPi to alsways show up as 192.168.0.255, would this address work with every home router? Another option, perhaps : use the unique MAC address of my RPi ? I have no clue whether it is possible at all to connect to a local webserver using the MAC of its host. Any clue is more than welcome, i know practically nothing about networks. Cheers, Pierre. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] Portable webserver with static IP
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 09:32:38PM +0200, Pierre Massat wrote: Ok, so the static IP is the way to go. Can I choose x and y arbitrarily ? Pretty much yes. Obviously the aim is to avoid a clash of IPs, but DHCP running on the behalf of the other things in your network will work by asigning around fixed IPs. Mixed dynamic and static isn't as bad as it may seem when one person is configuring the network and knows all the devices. How do I know what value of x will match my subnet ? The router will itself be on that subnet, and its dhcpd will asign joining workstations on that subnet too, so for example if the router is 192.168.0.254 then it will probably have allocated some other machines as 192.168.0.1, 192.168.0.2 and so on. On any of those boxes try $ ifconfig (nix) ipconfig (win) As for the value of y, I guess any value high enough (say, 50) in a small home network will do, right? Yes. Assuming that dynamic allocation starts at 192.168.x.1 and grows upward some people adopt the scheme of allocating static IPs from the top downward, maybe start at 192.168.0.250, the next at 192.168.0.249 and so on. best, Andy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] best way of controlling 50 speakers with pd?
A question to consider; Do the channels need a high degree of phase stability? Fernando is designing for a WFS system here. You may have more relaxed requirements for a theatre or installation multichannel system not needing such a degree of correlation. Using a very simliar approach with jack-udp, but with asynchronous receivers, chained ethernet, using gumstick or Raspberry Pi boards with cheap audio USB dongles. Andy On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 09:16:40AM -0700, Miller Puckette wrote: Best solution I've seen so far is by Fernando Lopez-Lezcano -- there's a paper in the Linux Audio Conference 2012: http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2012/papers/29.pdf cheers miller On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 05:58:50PM +0200, umberto torrez wrote: Hi list, i was wondering which is the best approach for controlling a lots of speakers with pd? 50 ? Is there any hardware or technique that allows to do this and that is not so expensive? any idea? Umberto. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] best way of controlling 50 speakers with pd?
In that case Umberto, one more specific question; Do you need these speakers to play simultaneously, or for just one to make a sound at any time? Andy On Sun, Sep 02, 2012 at 09:18:55PM +0200, umberto torrez wrote: Hi, Andy and how does your system work? Do you have a link? How many speakers are you using? I dont need high degree of phase stability , i need to control 50 very cheap speakers. I dont really mind if they dont produce all the frequency range. If each speaker generate only one frequency , its ok. I only need to be able to control them (the 50) from the computer, i was thinking, maybe not using sound? cheers U. 2012/9/2 Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk A question to consider; Do the channels need a high degree of phase stability? Fernando is designing for a WFS system here. You may have more relaxed requirements for a theatre or installation multichannel system not needing such a degree of correlation. Using a very simliar approach with jack-udp, but with asynchronous receivers, chained ethernet, using gumstick or Raspberry Pi boards with cheap audio USB dongles. Andy On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 09:16:40AM -0700, Miller Puckette wrote: Best solution I've seen so far is by Fernando Lopez-Lezcano -- there's a paper in the Linux Audio Conference 2012: http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2012/papers/29.pdf cheers miller On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 05:58:50PM +0200, umberto torrez wrote: Hi list, i was wondering which is the best approach for controlling a lots of speakers with pd? 50 ? Is there any hardware or technique that allows to do this and that is not so expensive? any idea? Umberto. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] best way of controlling 50 speakers with pd?
Okay, then best to stick with one DAC per channel I was going to suggest a super cheapy hack for the case where you just want one sound to have multiple possible speaker sources, which is to use an audio switch based on 4011 bilateral switches, with a single amplifier and an Arduino to multiplex the channel. But if you want concurrent sources then its likely less confusing and more flexible to build a system where every speaker has its own amplifier and DAC. I've never built such a system, but just mulling over the possibilities you might have with new technologies. cheers, Andy On Sun, Sep 02, 2012 at 09:47:35PM +0200, umberto torrez wrote: simultaneously would be better. but maybe not the 50 at the same time , maybe simultaneously up to 8? Is it too much difference? simultaneously vs no simultaneously? cheers U. 2012/9/2 Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk In that case Umberto, one more specific question; Do you need these speakers to play simultaneously, or for just one to make a sound at any time? Andy On Sun, Sep 02, 2012 at 09:18:55PM +0200, umberto torrez wrote: Hi, Andy and how does your system work? Do you have a link? How many speakers are you using? I dont need high degree of phase stability , i need to control 50 very cheap speakers. I dont really mind if they dont produce all the frequency range. If each speaker generate only one frequency , its ok. I only need to be able to control them (the 50) from the computer, i was thinking, maybe not using sound? cheers U. 2012/9/2 Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk A question to consider; Do the channels need a high degree of phase stability? Fernando is designing for a WFS system here. You may have more relaxed requirements for a theatre or installation multichannel system not needing such a degree of correlation. Using a very simliar approach with jack-udp, but with asynchronous receivers, chained ethernet, using gumstick or Raspberry Pi boards with cheap audio USB dongles. Andy On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 09:16:40AM -0700, Miller Puckette wrote: Best solution I've seen so far is by Fernando Lopez-Lezcano -- there's a paper in the Linux Audio Conference 2012: http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2012/papers/29.pdf cheers miller On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 05:58:50PM +0200, umberto torrez wrote: Hi list, i was wondering which is the best approach for controlling a lots of speakers with pd? 50 ? Is there any hardware or technique that allows to do this and that is not so expensive? any idea? Umberto. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd on a headless Raspberry Pi
Yes I heard that too. It's single bit PWM modulated output. Basically there's no DAC, so audio output is a fun hack, and likely as good as it's worth trying to make it for simple applications. If you want good quality audio I/O there are things like Turtle Beach Amigo for about 15 quid http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/sound-cards/audio-advantage-amigo-ii.aspx You can take it out the board from its plastic housing. Its about as small as an SD card. a. On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 04:40:44PM +0200, Pierre Massat wrote: There's a guy called dom on the RPi forum who seems to be involved in audio development. I've seen his interventions in a couple of audio related threads, and i got the information about the analog output being simple filtered PWM off one of his posts. Might be interesting to get in touch with him. Pierre. 2012/8/29 Tedb0t li...@liminastudio.com This is what I'm curious about; who is doing this alsa development, where, and can we pitch in? We are all interested in getting the sound working better on the Pi... That said, it seems like the jury is out on if it's an alsa problem or a Pd problem. I seem to have experienced both. —Tedb0t On Aug 29, 2012, at 6:46 AM, geoffroy wrote: With the PI the alsa is in alpha development on the arm platform and therefor won't be at it's best for a little while. The floating point integration in the latest system made the audio a lot better, as on the first gen OS of the PI the audio was just impossible. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Textual pd primer
It looks fun for Ruby peeps Andrew, though not sure what advantage that gives over FUDI. On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 09:41:01AM +0100, Andrew Faraday wrote: ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Textual pd primer
I guess this is a case of working out best practices for development. Nobody actually develops Pd in text mode, but gettin things running in an embedded way involves a good deal less graphics and can be intimidating or confusing at first. If you don't want the RPi set up with mouse, kbd and monitor like a full system, it's rather like working on other embedded development systems, you need to see the board as a target host, and your local machine as the development (client). One way is to work on a laptop or desktop, and the ftp/scp them accross to the target board. But probably most useful is to use X windows to ssh ssh -Y -l user address.of.my.rpi and then just start Pd, which will seem to run on your main machine. I sense some kind of Raspberry Pi and Pd workshop in the coming weeks. maybe best developmnt practices and tips will be an outcme of that meeting. best, Andy On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 10:42:47AM -0400, Sam Raker wrote: Hi guys, Longtime listener, first time caller. I was wondering if there's a good intro to text-only pd. I just got a raspberry pi, and I've heard a lot of chatter about how the -nogui flag solves a lot of weird dsp problems c, plus it'd be nice not to have to waste a USB port plugging in a mouse as well as a keyboard/midi keyboard/sound card/m-audio box/etc. Plus my main comp is a mac, and I'm worried making my patches on my Mac and then getting them onto my pi will be a pain in the b. I've seen people say stuff like, oh, just make a patch and look at it with a text editor and figure it out, but that's a bit over my head. Thoughts? -sam ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Open midi files in PD Vanilla?
We faced this at RjDj a while back. Me and Joe and Frank and the guys worked on something to make text files from MIDI, they could be fed to a vanilla style list sequencer. Worked quite well IIRC. Maybe its still in the rj library. a. On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 04:42:20PM +0200, Filippo Beck Peccoz wrote: Hi list, copying here a puredata forum post which remained unanswered- hope someone can help :) after searching around the forums and the net I decided to post this question here.. I'm using PD as the audio engine for a mobile game (using libpd, and therefore only Vanilla objects). This is very exciting, and I'm exploring all the possibilities for composition and realtime sound generation. One big thing I wanted to include is the possibility of reading midi files inside the patch, and pipe the data to envelopes and oscillators accordingly. Extended apparently has the seq object, but how about Vanilla? Is there a way to import a .mid file into a patch? Thank you all for helping a greenhorn out :=) Filippo ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Fifteen Student Pure Data Projects
Thanks to you and your students for sharing these Leanord! On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 03:12:41PM -0700, Freaky DNA wrote: Greetings all, I have just posted a collection of student patches ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Interesting work at Aalborg
I'm posting this to one or two lists, please excuse me if you've seen it already Some relevant new academic positions for comp music and DSPers Cheers, Andy FW: --- Regards, Mark ### Music research at Aalborg University, with support from the Obel Family Foundation, is seeking to fill three, two-year postdoctoral positions and two or three, three-year PhD positions. We are a small, but rapidly expanding, research group active in the following areas of relevance to these positions: generative music, music/sound design and production, biofeedback (emotioneering), sound semantics, and multi-modality. Successful postdoctoral applicants will be expected to pursue a course of study within the broad field of music/sound that is related to, but not limited to, the areas listed above. Applicants should have obtained their PhD no earlier than 1st August 2007 and must demonstrate in their application their willingness and ability to work within Aalborg University's interdisciplinary environment. PhD applicants will be expected to propose a thesis topic within the field of music and sound production particularly as it relates to emotion, biofeedback, or computer games and should be able to demonstrate, through qualifications and/or publications, competency in the following: music/sound design and production and at least one of computer programming, psychology, or cognitive science. The number of PhD positions appointed depends upon external funding acquired for each position and applicants are encouraged, but not required, to seek a portion of funding from other sources such as industry. Any such provisional funding offers should be indicated in the application. All applicants are expected to be at ease in both practical and theoretical milieu. PhD: http://www.vacancies.aau.dk/show-vacancy/?vacancy=414924 PostDoc: http://www.vacancies.aau.dk/show-vacancy/?vacancy=414154 -- Mark Grimshaw Obel Professor of Music TEL: (+45) 99 40 91 00 FAX: (+45) 98 15 45 94 Aalborg Universitet Institut for Kommunikation Kroghstræde 6, Lokale 19 9220 Aalborg Ø Denmark ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PD, sound, and differential/integral calculus
If it's sound you're interested in then it is tempting to suggest either Stefan Bilbao, because he gives lots of problems and exercises, or to look at Dave Benson who tackles unusual and interesting topics. However, if you really want to flex your school calculus muscles and use Pd as a platform to show that off, it may be better to pick a control engineering problem, say adaptive proportional servos, and solve it in the message domain. Get lots of neat graphs easily using [textfile] to push and dump data. The problem with more complicated audio DSP problems from the standard problem set (filters, physmo etc) is that the fine discretisation required isn't something Pure Data makes easy (as it's already optimised a certain patching style so that feedback and audio block size may give a few headaches), and if you're working with continuous calculus problems you might get a few surprises going to the discrete/digital realm at audio rate the first time. cheers, Andy On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 11:17:29PM -0400, Eric Mazza wrote: Thanks, Ill have to check out Perry Cook's Real Sound Synthesis. It may be what I'm looking for. I do have Andy Farnell's book. I haven't finished it though, other work took priority. From what I recall it wasn't too mathematically oriented, and I dont think it covers the topics in as mathematical details as I would like (and need) for this project. On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Nicholas Arner nicholasar...@gmail.comwrote: Sounds like a cool idea All DSP uses maths in some way or another. Check out Perry Cook's book Real Sound Synthesis for a more mathematical/technical intro to DSP principles. On the other end of the spectrum, Andy Fanrnell's book Designing Sound looks at DSP/sound design specifically in the context of PD, not only providing a great intro to the language itself, but also to aesthetic choice in sound design Hope that helps, and good luck! Cheers, Nick Sent from my iPhone On Jun 24, 2012, at 8:15 PM, Eric Mazza mazzaro...@gmail.com wrote: Hi list, I'm in a summer calculus two course, and we are required to do a research project of our choosing as long as it includes the topics we have learned so far. I want to explore the relationship between this science and sound more closely, and decided to use Puredata as a medium. What are some areas in sound design/composition that involve calculus? Or topics that approach sound from a calculus standpoint? Thanks, maz ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] cheapest production-scale pd-anywhere platform?
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 01:16:58PM +0200, dreamer wrote: True, but just get your hands on one. Start prototyping and then prepare for the actual mass-production. Indeed, it's not just the device but the whole principle going further. There are interesting parallels between the OLPC and R-Pi projects. In some ways the R-Pi roll-out has been a failure for the ideological aims of the foundation. A hype bubble and big show, no doubt for the sake of potential investors, has popularised things too fast. Those who should be able to get hold of them cannot, while despite best efforts there are boards reselling on E-Bay for $100's. Meanwhile dozens of other companies are positioning themselves to produce similar things. Even though people like myself, who just patiently waited, cannot get hold R-Pi boards for my students, or to do workshops and develop educational materials, I have faith that things are going in the right direction and will eventually benefit open education and technology freedom. The irony of the OLPC project is that it did very little directly towards its goal of providing cheap computing to third world children. What it did do was break the equilibrium and price point of the laptop market that was holding out at $500 for almost 5 years. I bought all of my EEEPC's for less than $100. They all run Debian or Ubuntu, and I even have spare ones that got lent out to students. They can be considered, semi-disposable commodities now, through which I have spread much interest and curiosity amongst young people about real computing, free software and programming. I would not now pay more than $100 for a computing device and consider what you can buy for that sum as the standard of the average computing device. In the same way the R-Pi project is redefining the price and value for open ubiquitous and embedded computing, which I predict as $5 to $10 within the next 2-3 years. It may not itself be a success. Or achieve the goal of putting a tiny computer into the hands of every student. The thing is that the RasPi foundation is licensing the design to other vendors that (will) produce the device themselves. Currently everything is still just in a start-up phase. The hype is a bit overblown I guess, but I think it's still a device to look out for. So yes, we can start to act, and plan course material, as if it already has. What it will do is break the oligopoly of mobile cellphone manufacturers for the _closed_ mobile, embedded and ubiquitous markets, the alternative to which is still expensive experimental development boards, and absurdly priced things like the pico-ITX which is effectively obsoleted now. Kids will seriously re-engage with computing when they realise it's possible to build their own communication devices for ad hoc texting, running a pocket webserver, or making musical devices. I can see Pd playing a significant part in this. For a while the richness of convergent technology in the cellphone provided a window of opportunity, but we can breathe a sigh of relief and start seeing cellphones as just phones again, because the age of the commodity mobile general purpose computer is here. And fortunately, let us hope, the future of this platform is going to be OPEN! Three cheers for the R-Pi foundation. This is _much_ bigger than just the technology you see. Also many schools are moving to ban cellphones. Imagine if responsibility for use of technology could be inculcated through the principles of design and ownership when the school can afford to give everyone a reconfigurable multi-use platform. It may have further impacts, by decreasing the price while increasing the value of open commodity hardware it can challenge the unimaginable environmental waste of the billions of locked down and useless cellphones manufactured. On this subject I have written a position paper for DIS sceptical of the mobile music market as a form of mediated quasi-creativity and the suitability of the cellphone for such uses. Many of the now desirable R-Pi boards will end up on shelves, in drawers and museums of people who never really had much investment in their potential. They bought one because they were cool at the time. But by contributing to the hype and creating a real _movement_ the foundation will find fame alongside the early Apple, Sinclair ZX, OLPC, and other catalytic projects. Andy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] all distorsions avaliable
tanh is a popular transfer function, as is cos, both of which approximate to linear for small signals but change for larger ones. Also check out using polynomials as transfers, some have very particular properties as to how they change the harmonics. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 06:43:05PM +0200, umberto torrez wrote: Hi guys, im doing a research of all the distorsion objects avaliable for pd. I found the following objects: quatize , swap, dist, disto, foldover , exciter and zhzxh. Am i missing something? Do you know if there are any other objects in pd for distorsion? thanks in advance Umberto ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Re : store and manipulate multiple lists
Yes of course. Once you can sort items of any type you can sort aggregate items, structs, sublists or whatever on one of their elements. Its a little messy in Pd. The best way might be to use pointers and try to do the classic Kernighan and Richie head swap thing but I have no idea how to exchange pointers in Pd. This attached thing should do the job and be adaptable to variable record lengths. You might be able to hack it to work with symbols as well as floats. It totally fails if the keys are not ubique though :( a. On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 03:26:14PM -0700, Benoît Fortier wrote: Thanks Andy. But as far as I know, [list-sort] will sort the number in a list, and what I really need is to sort multiple lists according to their first element (which are numbers)... is there a trick with [list-sort] that allows to do that? Benoît De : Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk À : Benoît Fortier benoitfort...@yahoo.ca Cc : pd-list pd-list@iem.at Envoyé le : mercredi 14 mars 2012 18h17 Objet : Re: [PD] store and manipulate multiple lists [list sort] maybe? a. On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 03:04:25PM -0700, Benoît Fortier wrote: Hi everybody, I need to store multiple lists of numbers in a text file in a specific order : the first number of each list must be ascending, from the first line of the text file to the last. The problem is this : my patch outputs the lists in an unordered way. I could rewrite the patch so that the lists gets outputed the correct way, but to be able to store all the lists somehow and then write a patch to order them afterward feels to me like a much more elegant solution. Any toughts on this? Thank you all, this list has been very helpfull to me, and its also quite entertaining! Benoît ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list #N canvas 1982 317 909 374 10; #X msg 74 134 4 6545 3 3657 5 2333 1 3454 2 5464; #X msg 363 151 1 3454 5 2 5464 65656 4 6545 87678 3 3657 456 5 2333 7655 0 4; #X obj 296 297 print sorted; #X obj 103 85 t b b; #X msg 133 106 2; #X obj 368 95 t b b; #X msg 397 124 3; #X obj 101 59 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1; #X obj 366 75 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1; #X obj 590 41 t b b; #X obj 588 21 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1; #X msg 575 100 1 234 3 345 0 12 3 333 4 410; #X msg 619 70 2; #X text 669 58 BUT BEWARE: must be unique keys; #X text 67 37 Will sort pairs (record width is 2); #X text 353 51 Here the record width is 3; #X text 8 -8 [record-sort] use a pseudo hash to sort an incoming list of n-tuples based on first item; #X obj 296 269 record-sort; #X connect 0 0 17 0; #X connect 1 0 17 0; #X connect 3 0 0 0; #X connect 3 1 4 0; #X connect 4 0 17 1; #X connect 5 0 1 0; #X connect 5 1 6 0; #X connect 6 0 17 1; #X connect 7 0 3 0; #X connect 8 0 5 0; #X connect 9 0 11 0; #X connect 9 1 12 0; #X connect 10 0 9 0; #X connect 11 0 17 0; #X connect 12 0 17 1; #X connect 17 0 2 0; #N canvas 0 0 450 300 10; #X obj -259 109 list split 2; #X obj -230 141 list; #X obj -197 200 list prepend; #X obj -113 200 t l; #X obj -256 232 list split 1; #X obj -275 176 t b a a; #X obj -256 254 list prepend; #X obj -170 254 t l; #X obj -252 278 print keys; #X obj -289 287 list; #X obj -279 68 t b a b; #X obj -292 339 list-sort; #X obj -397 340 print sortedkeys; #X obj -134 147 t b b; #X obj -291 391 list-find; #X obj -291 312 t a a; #X obj -290 364 list-drip; #X obj -279 492 list split; #X obj -250 517 list split; #X obj -226 456 *; #X obj -287 449 list; #X obj -289 422 t b f; #X obj -64 81 t f f f; #X obj -228 393 print index; #X obj -284 38 inlet listdata; #X obj -65 47 inlet recordwidth; #X obj -251 543 outlet sorted fields; #X text -341 15 TODO: fix to handle non unique keys in a sensible way; #X text -174 520 ajf; #X connect 0 0 5 0; #X connect 0 1 1 1; #X connect 1 0 0 0; #X connect 2 0 3 0; #X connect 2 0 20 1; #X connect 3 0 2 1; #X connect 4 0 6 0; #X connect 5 0 1 0; #X connect 5 1 4 0; #X connect 5 2 2 0; #X connect 6 0 7 0; #X connect 6 0 9 1; #X connect 7 0 6 1; #X connect 9 0 15 0; #X connect 10 0 9 0; #X connect 10 1 0 0; #X connect 10 2 13 0; #X connect 11 0 16 0; #X connect 13 0 2 1; #X connect 13 1 6 1; #X connect 14 0 21 0; #X connect 15 0 11 0; #X connect 15 1 14 1; #X connect 16 0 14 0; #X connect 17 1 18 0; #X connect 18 0 26 0; #X connect 19 0 17 1; #X connect 20 0 17 0; #X connect 21 0 20 0; #X connect 21 1 19 0; #X connect 22 0 0 1; #X connect 22 1 19 1; #X connect 22 2 18 1; #X connect 24 0 10 0; #X connect 25 0 22 0; ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Switching Between Multiple Patches for Installation
And wrap the whole patch with a [switch~] so you can turn off DSP when it is minimised and turn on ones that are in focus. a. On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 05:38:17PM -0400, Dafydd Hughes wrote: On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: If your patch is named foo.pd, send a vis 1 message to it to give the window the focus, like this: [vis 1( | [pd-foo.pd] Automation is tricky. In pd-extended or vanilla it will crash pd if you try to get a patch to close itself. Not at pd right now, but can you get around that using an independent control patch that opens and closes patches? cheers dafydd ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] store and manipulate multiple lists
[list sort] maybe? a. On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 03:04:25PM -0700, Benoît Fortier wrote: Hi everybody, I need to store multiple lists of numbers in a text file in a specific order : the first number of each list must be ascending, from the first line of the text file to the last. The problem is this : my patch outputs the lists in an unordered way. I could rewrite the patch so that the lists gets outputed the correct way, but to be able to store all the lists somehow and then write a patch to order them afterward feels to me like a much more elegant solution. Any toughts on this? Thank you all, this list has been very helpfull to me, and its also quite entertaining! Benoît ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Anonymity.
On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 09:21:45PM +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v94ugLhua9Y Hmm, so sevy seems like an obvious red herring. Whoever put the hemlock in Mathieu's tea probably knows him, and has held a grudge over losing a game of Go thay swore to avenge many years ago... The plot thickens... (I was in the library. That's my story and I'm sticking to it) ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] vline~ precision, or sequentially segmented playback of a buffer
Joao, if the jumps are always (theoretically zero) going to be very small (no backjumps of a whole segment) then let's suggest a quick and practical fix and ignore the whole issue of sample accuracy in the control system. I take it you only need this to sound good enough, not be sample accurate: Place a [lop~ 1000] after the [vline~] This will remove any sudden little jumps and smooth the playback at segment boundaries. Might be good enough for rock n roll. On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 11:05:31PM +0100, João Pais wrote: Hello list, continuing with a topic I started some time ago (but couldn't continue the discussion), I've made a simulated version of my patch to explain the situation. The full patch is too complex, and would need audio files to be sent with it. The context is as follows: An audio file stored in a buffer is played in small segments in a forward-backward sequence. Each segment is played after the previous, with no gaps in time or reading point. First segment goes as 0 - 8638.86, 2nd as 8638.86 - 17277.7, 3rd as 17277.7 - 25916.6 , etc. All segments are triggered at the same pace, in this case 181.818 ms. You can see all the segments in the [textfile]. Ideally, the original audio file would be reproduced with no difference to the original - besides the playback pointer going forward-backward. But when playing back the segments, after the first initial moment with almost no problems (only the clicks when playback changes direction), clicks start to appear at each segment - from around sample 229K onwards. Since I'm using [vline~], I thought that the timing of the reading point related to the audio blocks wouldn't be a problem. But, if you record the output and look at the audio file, you'll see that the clicks come from a out of phase moment, and then the wave continues. My question is: am I doing something wrong with the circuit? If not, is there an efficient way of achieving a similar playback of a stored buffer? I hope everything is clear. The original patch is a monster, but this version sums up what's happening. Btw, in the original patch all the values are calculated in real time. But with the recorded version the audio sound just the same. The original audio file is 5m18s long. Will the be any round-up problems while calculating the segment coordinates to tabread4~? Thanks in advance for who has the time to read this, Joao ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Editing CSS style, make pd.info better? [WAS: puredata.info site design provocation]
NOTE: I think better and bigger images would greatly enhance the look of the page. Most definitely. In particular, wherever .pd patches are to be displayed as patch diagrams (to be read or studied rather than as mere eye candy) then the image should be large as possible and link to the full resolution original. I've no idea how the current zope/plone system behaves but some CMS I've seen cache low res versions so that clicking on view image just gives you a blury but larger version of the same. We must remember that whether of not the patches are also downloadable with Pure Data the images are informational content. cheers, Andy ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Editing CSS style, make pd.info better? [WAS: puredata.info site design provocation]
actually, i do have reservations about google analytics. fgamsdr IOhannes I don't know if Iohannes reservations are the same as mine, but +1 for the record. No need for thatkind of cheap marketing trash on our site. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] ordering arrays based in similarity
Probably the simplest first approach, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_distance But then, for music (I'm making a guess here), each dimension is not equally weighted, so if your first column represents the root key then you might want to give that more clout. There are more elaborate _ distance function _ you can research. On Mon, Mar 05, 2012 at 01:37:27AM +0200, ronni montoya wrote: Hi , i have a groups of messages each one containing an array, or a groups of numbers in this way: [ 2, 5, 1, 3, 5 ( [ 2, 1, 5, 9, 1 ( [ 5, 3, 1, 8, 5 ( [ 7, 7, 3, 8, 2 ( ... and so on How can i order each one of these arrays (messages) based in its similarities? i need that the most similar ones can be neighbours, so i can trigger them in a ordered way how can i achieve this? thanks R. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] OSC Sequencer IanniX
I'm glad to see this is still alive. It's quite old now right? A few years back I was very excited by it and downloaded and spent too long trying to get it to compile. I hope the build/dependencies are much better now. Thanks for continuing to develop and sharing this cool looking OSC sequencer. Andy On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:20:49PM +0100, Christoph Kuhr wrote: Hi, I wanted to announce a cool OSC sequencer. IanniX www.IanniX.org until now i didnt hear anything of it here so i thought it could be interesting for many others out there... the community is still small and the software really powerful! if someone is already using it, i would be glad to share some experience! regads Ck ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] C++ for reusable dsp lib - or better use C?
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 01:15:33PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: You don't need to spit out that kind of gratuitous nonsense. Thanks. You take it from here, I'll put me feet up. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] C++ for reusable dsp lib - or better use C?
On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 01:58:14AM +0100, katja wrote: In my (not so huge) coding experience, I've always noticed that code typing is the least time consuming aspect of a dsp project. To figure out a good concept takes longer. Testing and bug fixing takes longer. Optimization takes longer. I've once written an optimized FFT lib (in C). It took me a month if I remember well, and that was not because of all the code typing. +1 For me, learning the subject and making good design desisions, then learning languages are the biggest overheads, measured in years or decades. Then debugging, correcting mistakes, optimising, packaging... these are things that take days or weeks. Once an idea is set in motion, actual coding seems to happen in sprints of a few dozen hours, and is largely independent of the language. Shortcuts made because a language is compact and elegant only pay off where you write millions of lines of code. Some might properly aruge that you make fewer mistakes with an elegant language, but there is much more to elegance than compactness. In fact elegance, in the eye of the beholder, is quite subjective. C++ is a beautifully rich language that is very concept heavy, a far more mature tool than I need to do most DSP tasks. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] minicomputers for pd + gem (linux)
There are a few of here Jordi for whom minicomputers is to computers what minigun is to gun. :) I have tried Pd with many kinds of mini-itx and small form factor board out there, and just about anything you buy these days above 1.6GHz with integrated GPU runs excellently with Pd. As Ubuntu continues to get heavier I heartily recommend you look at stock Debian Squeeze with a lite window manager if you want to use the machine for artistic work, rather than as a general purpose desktop. The better question to ask is do people know of any hardware configurations to avoid. For example: I had a tough time getting a new I7 with sandybridge graphics adapter to work without having to upgrade kernel. Andy On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 06:53:03PM +0100, Jordi Sala wrote: Hi! Can anyone help me with minicomputers that run acceptably with Ubuntu + PD (GEM)? some experience? Consider that as these machines can achieve a good performance? http://www.pccomponentes.com/foxconn_nettop_a3500_barebone_negro.html http://pdes.zotac.com/index.php?page=shop.product_detailscategory_id=75flypage=flypage_images.tplproduct_id=334option=com_virtuemartItemid=1 Thanks!!! -- Jordi Sala http://musa.poperbu.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] minicomputers for pd + gem (linux)
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 03:12:57PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: On Feb 17, 2012, at 2:17 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: Le 2012-02-17 à 18:53:00, Jordi Sala a écrit : Can anyone help me with minicomputers that run acceptably with Ubuntu + PD (GEM)? some experience? DEC's PDP-1134 would be your best bet. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ud6cVWt3cc4/TFSxKkaka_I/AJ8/cICybvX3IHE/s1600/pdp1134.jpg It can't run Ubuntu, but it can run a fairly recent version of UNIX, to which PureData could be ported if it gets shrunk to fit in 0.000122 meg of RAM. If the RAM is a bit too tight, don't worry, it comes with two tapedecks, as you can see in the 1st and 4th towers. It's such a wonder of technology. Much smaller than a real computer. It wouldn't take that many man-months of porting to get it going... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minicomputer We are not living in the 80s any more. ;) But some of us have to keep reliving it in therapy http://www.thefashionpolice.net/2007/09/fashion-crimes-of-the-80s.html .hc The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] unpack type mismatch?
Unlike MIDI, OSC isn't a tightly defined protocol, so some implementations of OSC Controllers are different to others. Print out the data in its raw form, before you try to route it to a control destination and see what is different. On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:23:31AM +0100, Christoph Kuhr wrote: Hi, i route OSC messages an then unpack it. [unpack 0 0 0 0] with one OSC controller i get the error: error: unpack: type mismatch unpacked: 3 14.8743 14.0385 20 with another OSC Controller nothing: unpacked: 3 85.539 85.3286 20 unpacked: 3 15.0827 85.9539 20 why does unpack behave like that? ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] specifying time
Yes, blocks and samples would be great too. The advantage of having a symbol qualifier in a message as opposed to creation arguments of the object is that [line~] etc could respond to mixed messages with different units. Andy On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 10:26:49AM -0800, Miller Puckette wrote: A better way might be to give the line~ (etc) objects optional arguments to specify units. I think there aren't many of them (line, line~, vline~, delay, metro, delread~, vd~). I also think that's how Max dealt with it. In particular, it would be very useful to be able to specify a delay in samples or blocks. cheers Miller On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 01:21:25PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: Should be easy enough to implement since it would be a symbol, so it would be clearly separated from the currently arg, which is always a float. .hc On Feb 15, 2012, at 1:57 AM, Andy Farnell wrote: Great suggestion. It makes sense. And numerical strings are already parsed for e (exponent) and - (minus) aren't they? Andy On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:10:54PM -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: [del 4m33s] [1 3s( | [line] [metro 1d2h4m3s21ms] That last one is overkill. :) But sometimes you want to work in something other than ms, and it's a pain to make convenience abstractions. Kinda like [f $0]--[set $1-blah( is a pain If a class with a float method that has no symbol method receives ([0-9]+[wdhms]+)+ then couldn't pd just convert it to a millisecond float value? -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. - General Smedley Butler ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Problem with tcpserver from iemnet
This may be more to do with the opersting system and how sockets are allocated and buffered than Pure Data. How you close the patch may make a difference. Try gracefully closing, by disconnecting sockets, then after a short delay exit Pd They should be usable the next time you open. You say they refuse to disconnect? Can you throw any more light on that? Andy On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 07:10:03PM +0100, Jack wrote: Hello, I have two problems with [tcpserver] from iemnet : - when i send the message 'disconnect', clients stay connected. - when i quit the patch running [tcpserver] and relaunch it, the server doesn't start. I have to quit again and relaunch again to see the server running. What i would like : When the patch running the [tcpserver] quit, I relaunch the patch and want the server start. Is it possible ? Thanx. ++ Jack ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] specifying time
Great suggestion. It makes sense. And numerical strings are already parsed for e (exponent) and - (minus) aren't they? Andy On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:10:54PM -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: [del 4m33s] [1 3s( | [line] [metro 1d2h4m3s21ms] That last one is overkill. :) But sometimes you want to work in something other than ms, and it's a pain to make convenience abstractions. Kinda like [f $0]--[set $1-blah( is a pain If a class with a float method that has no symbol method receives ([0-9]+[wdhms]+)+ then couldn't pd just convert it to a millisecond float value? -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] help compiling pd-extended
Maybe way off here but that looks like a serious shell error causing the trouble. You seem to be using sh Try changing your shell to bash On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 20:46:54 +0100 Renato renn...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 20:42:11 +0100 Renato renn...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I'd like to compile pd-extended to use [hid]. I'm on Archlinux, and I'm not having any succes with it - and the errors I'm getting seem to be shared by others Archlinuxers ([1],[2]). With pd-extended 0.42.5 make is stopping with: [sorry, accidentally clicked send too early] In file included from pix_video.cpp:18:0: ../Pixes/videoV4L.h:43:29: fatal error: linux/videodev.h: No such file or directory When compiling from svn instead I'm getting this: install -p -m 644 examples/$file /home/renato/src/pd-extended-svn/pkg/usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp/examples; \ done test -z || \ install -p -m 755 -d /home/renato/src/pd-extended-svn/pkg/usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp/manual \ for file in ; do \ install -p -m 644 manual/$file /home/renato/src/pd-extended-svn/pkg/usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp/manual; \ done install -p -m 755 -d /home/renato/src/pd-extended-svn/pkg/usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \ /home/renato/src/pd-extended-svn/pkg/usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp test -z || (\ install -p -m 644 /home/renato/src/pd-extended-svn/pkg/usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp \ ) /bin/sh: -c: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `)' /bin/sh: -c: line 2: ` )' make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/renato/src/pd-extended-svn/src/pd-extended-build/abstractions/jmmmp' make[1]: *** [jmmmp_install] Error 2 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/renato/src/pd-extended-svn/src/pd-extended-build/abstractions' make: *** [abstractions_install] Error 2 make: Leaving directory `/home/renato/src/pd-extended-svn/src/pd-extended-build/packages' You can see the exact command lines that were given by looking at the file called PKGBUILD linked to in [1] and [2] - you're interested in the build function there. The sed lines there seem to be crucial - removing them throws other errors before these (except from the tclpd one in pd-extended-svn which actually has to be commented out) So, anyone can help us Archlinuxers compile pd-extended? kind regards, Renato [1] http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=44798 [2] http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=22509 ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Language Design / Conlang: do you know any examples in Sound Art or Arts in general?
I would combine a pass-phrase generator with a text to speech convertor that attempts best guesses. Pass-phrase generators (there are many around in Perl Java and Python) create plausible sounding, and hence mnemonic constructions like toof dang plep blug You can usually filter for only non-words Since most TTS are recognisable voices and have human intonation a phoneme concatenation speech synthesiser like MBROLA would be good for more alien effects after a little ring modulation. You will need to use IPA symbols as your alphabet and maybe tweak the phrase algorithm in order to avoid the problem of Kang from Rigel VII, in order to pronounce it correctly I would have to remove your tongue. On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 14:11:49 +0100 massimiliano samsa puredatamassimili...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I'm going to do a project of language design for the Sound Design course of of my Art School. *Language Design* is the creation of an artificial language like it happens, for example, for the aliens of some sc-fi movies. (Famous examples are the aliens in District 9 and Chewbecca in Star Wars (of course ;)). It is also called conlang (constructed language). The final work should be some kind of a speaking installation, where the speech generated is an artificial language interacting with the audience. My plans are to collect a database of sounds/phonems from human speeches of different languages, in addiction to synthetic sounds, and find a way to re-arrange them on the fly when triggered by an interaction with the audience, in order to create sentences. *Besides the technical sides, my main focus now is to know examples of artificial language design in Sound Art or Arts in general.* No videogames or films involved ;) Any help or suggestion is much appreciated!! Max -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pugs luv beats
Yann Seznec and his crew have been busy making fun games using Pd http://designingsound.org/2012/01/the-sound-of-pugs-luv-beats/ -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Language Design / Conlang: do you know any examples in Sound Art or Arts in general?
Is that what Francophone Canadian sounds like!! ? Anyway I can't hear it using espeak or mbrola because not sure how to translate UTF16 IPA into phoneme mnemonics, eg this doesn't work: $ espeak -v fr -b 1 [[ʒa.dɔː la pe i e ʃtʀuːv sʌ tʀɛ kuːl kə tɑ̃ paʀl sʏː pe.de.lɪst mɛ ɑ̃ pra.tsɪk ʒe pʌ tɛl.mɑ̃ lɔ.ka.zjɔ̃ dmɑ̃ sɛʀ.vɪː œ̃ ʒʊː pø.taɛtʀ ]] Andy On Sat, 21 Jan 2012 12:48:50 -0500 (EST) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: Le 2012-01-21 à 13:34:00, Andy Farnell a écrit : You will need to use IPA symbols as your alphabet ʒa.dɔː la pe i e ʃtʀuːv sʌ tʀɛ kuːl kə tɑ̃ paʀl sʏː pe.de.lɪst ! mɛ ɑ̃ pra.tsɪk ʒe pʌ tɛl.mɑ̃ lɔ.ka.zjɔ̃ dmɑ̃ sɛʀ.vɪː . œ̃ ʒʊː pø.taɛtʀ ... __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] OT: faster than Fourier transform
Considering the paper is unpublished and sparse decomposition is a pretty heavy topic I thought that is a really nice bit of science journalism by Larry Hardesty. Since periodic music signals probably fit the bill quite well it's good news for our kind of work. On Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:40:35 -0800 (PST) Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: This looks interesting: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/faster-fourier-transforms-0118.html -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] install Pd on ubuntu without internet; video-playback codec windows?
On Tue, 6 Dec 2011 14:29:31 -0500 (EST) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: Le 2011-12-06 à 19:51:00, IOhannes m zmoelnig a écrit : $ dpkg -x pd.deb . alternatively $ ar x pd.deb $ tar xvzf data.tar.gz But dpkg -x doesn't run any scripts after unpacking, right ? At least, ar/tar does not run scripts for sure. Most .deb packages require superuser permissions to install files into various places like /usr/bin, /etc or /usr/lib. Those are in the control file, use $ dpkg -c pd.deb to see all the places wheret content would be unpacked. I think IOhannes refers to unpacking a Debian source package so you can do a local build (in home directory). Source packages can be fetched using $ apt-get source puredata But then why not fetch the latest source from git/svn ? Does the pd package contain any setup scripts ? But more generally, many packages do, and it would be good to know how to install them. E.g. if the pd package has any dependencies that aren't installed and that root doesn't want to install... there must be at least one of them that needs to run some kind of script ? Have you tried stuff involving --admindir and/or --root but not -x ? __ | Mathieu BOUCHARD - téléphone : +1.514.383.3801 - Montréal, QC -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] OOP practices in Pure Data
What a great resource. Thanks Jerome. Cool to see some of my old patches in there as examples (of what not to do) :) On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:31:09 +0100 (CET) abel.jer...@free.fr wrote: Hi all, All along years of practice, I've developped with Pd as well as object oriented languages. Some methods and designs from OOP (object oriented programming) structure my patches, because I think they are very useful to clear thoughts and share patches. It is sometimes difficult to understand patches from other people, and more difficult when it is a complete project. Therefore I think it's quite good to link Pd programming with OOP. In the same idea, I like those resources : http://puredata.info/docs/tutorials/TipsAndTricks http://puredata.info/Members/bbogart/pddp http://puredata.info/docs/style-guide http://www.earcatching.com/pdconv/pdconv.pdf Sharing practices is also very useful to help eachother and beginners people structure their code (and their thoughts). Jerome http://jeromeabel.net -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] get method for Pd
How about [; pd get self rcv-name( Dumps itself. Once I wanted to get Pd patches to print themselves, can't remember how it was solved now, but the above would have been quite clear. On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:14:58 +0100 katja katjavet...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:43 AM, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: Are there Pd attributes other than version and dsp status that would be nice to make gettable? Very useful! I could think of these, to start with: [; pd get tcl-version rcv-name( sends tcl-version $ to rcv-name [; pd get float-precision rcv-name( sends float-precision $ to rcv-name (expressed as 8*sizeof(t_float)) [; pd get pd-path rcv-name( sends pd-path path/to/pd to rcv-name Katja ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] expr money
On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 13:21:29 -0800 Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 03:24:27PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: btw, I haven't seen any of the three funders (Andy, Jonathan, Marvin) say whether their money is just for [expr], or does it include [expr~] and/or [fexpr~] as well. The task description should be made clearer. What I would like to see is uniform BSD licensing for PD Vanilla. That said, if Shahrokh believed that the task only included [expr], I'm fine with that. I doubt he's going to be funded at anywhere near what his time is worth, either way. I agree with Matju on early clarity of requirements. For my part I had assumed a small amount of money like one or two hundred would justify only cursory changes to [expr] to bring its licence to BSD compliance. Also, there's no webpage about it. Perhaps you could get together to write a page listing the goals and the amounts of money. It could be on puredata.info. There could also be a new section for that kind of thing, and/or it could be put next to the Google Summer of Code pages and other funding-related things. Personally, I'm not into the idea of generalizing this -- public funding is a legal and bureaucratic hassle, and I'm considering this a specific charity donation a la sponsoring a friend in Race for The Cure, not seed money for a bug-bounty model of development. I'm also unlikely to contribute again. For me, this is a one-time put-your-money-where-your-mouth-is special situation that I only really considered because the original author made a unique proposal. Marvin Humphrey My leaning is with Marvin here, to support a one-off project as raised by Matt (Hardoff), rather than initiate a general bounty movement for Pd. Although maybe that is another discussion the community could be having.(?) -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] expr alternative
tisser ? http://yamatierea.org/papatchs/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Envie de tisser ? http://yamatierea.org/papatchs/ -- Envie de tisser ? http://yamatierea.org/papatchs/ -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd on mini devices
It's a current topic at the London hackspace. Im often thinking about new development boards that can run a decent guitar FX patch with usable latency on a playing card sized board costing less than a $50 Depends what you mean by mini devices though. In theory a usable CPU only board would need USB, and a power supply, everything else, including LAN and audio can be added. Most SBCs are actually very expensive dollar per cycle but there are some interesting possibilities http://www.raspberrypi.org/?p=78 http://beagleboard.org/ a. On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 19:39:39 +0900 i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote: (this is a duplicate post i did on the forum, but want to see if i can get help here) is there someone here doing pd on mini devices yet? i want something with low latency, audio output at least, but audio in/out even better.. the ability to connect some sort of sensors or controllers (even really basic stuff) basically, i want to put pd in a guitar pedal. any help? cheap would be best, but i have a small budget i could use if a good option is not bargain basement. i must also mention that i'm really not good at soldering, and my coding ability in anything other than PD is pretty shocking. what options are there? i have heard of beagle board, does that work? -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd on mini devices
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:34:18 +0900 i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote: well, something like that raspberry or the beagleboard looks absolutely great, IF i can get one to run pd with just some really minimal patch. the most important thing is low latency. i know how hard that is to get even on a 'proper' computer, so that's going to be the hard thing, yeah? The basic arrangement is a real-time kernel and ALSA. If you can get those running you have a start. But very few people have any inclination to mess around at that level. Something like http://www.emdebian.org/ is often at the heart of a usable system. Bear in mind that you have no hard drive. So a good idea is to make a live system. That means the whole system boots from a USB compressed filesystem and runs only in RAM. If you partition the USB stick and create a persistent home directory, then you have what behaves like a normal desktop. Except you won't want a desktop. The bare bones are Kernel core-utils, busybox ALSA telnet/ssh With ssh you have a handle on the device, you can log in, transfer files using scp, remotely start and stop services. Try compiling a simple test program that produces a sine wave and get that coming out your audio device. Then see if you can get vanilla Pd on there. Note that if you go the Debian or Arch route you'll be able to use a package manager to pull a pre-built version for ARM very easily. apt-get install puredata This is high level guidance. Before getting stuck in see what some of the others say. I haven't played with this for a few months and it's a fast moving stream. There may be one or more off-the-shelf ways of getting Pd running on a small board ARM or intel, but you want a suitable kernel to try real-time guitar fx. a. i don't mind if the device is a bit bigger. but you know...even these smart phones now can run pretty decent pd patches. surely there has to be some good option with dedicated audio in/out and low latency??? i can attempt a custom linux install even but i'd need some hand holding. On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.ukwrote: It's a current topic at the London hackspace. Im often thinking about new development boards that can run a decent guitar FX patch with usable latency on a playing card sized board costing less than a $50 Depends what you mean by mini devices though. In theory a usable CPU only board would need USB, and a power supply, everything else, including LAN and audio can be added. Most SBCs are actually very expensive dollar per cycle but there are some interesting possibilities http://www.raspberrypi.org/?p=78 http://beagleboard.org/ a. On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 19:39:39 +0900 i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote: (this is a duplicate post i did on the forum, but want to see if i can get help here) is there someone here doing pd on mini devices yet? i want something with low latency, audio output at least, but audio in/out even better.. the ability to connect some sort of sensors or controllers (even really basic stuff) basically, i want to put pd in a guitar pedal. any help? cheap would be best, but i have a small budget i could use if a good option is not bargain basement. i must also mention that i'm really not good at soldering, and my coding ability in anything other than PD is pretty shocking. what options are there? i have heard of beagle board, does that work? -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] only allow to pass 1 each 10
On Mon, 31 Oct 2011 07:10:32 -0700 ronni montoya ronni.mont...@gmail.com wrote: HI I have an abstraction generating numbers permanently , i have the output connected to a Number, i would like to only let pass one value each 10 times it changes. Is it incrementing 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 ? If so try [div 10] | [change] Or is it an unordered sequence of numbers? Then you need a counter modulo 10 to bang the value currently held in a float box. | [tb f] | | [f]X[+ 1] | | | [mod 10]| | | [sel 0] | | | [ f ] | -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [semi-OT]: Licenses [WAS] Re: expr alternative
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: Le 2011-10-25 à 15:06:00, Julian Brooks a écrit : I for one find all the license talk fascinating. I'm still smarting from Mathieu's response to the question 'what is free software? - answer a set of licenses, from a while back. Whereas I like to think of it as an ethical and political manifesto/code of conduct, he's quite correct that yes it is just a bunch of licenses. It's reductionist to call it just a bunch of licenses, but for certain aspects, it's all that matters. However, if we're thinking about why those licenses exist and why people use them, we have to think of people, manifestoes, and the events that led people to change their minds so that they would want to write manifestoes and licenses, etc. It is both. You cannot have a legal instrument, a license or contract, that is free from values. All human values are necessarily political and ethical. Even though they are not contracts, in simplest terms licenses invoke some payment of a debt. Somebody did some work. Repayment for that work could be made in promissory notes backed by a bank. Or by an agreement to observe certain behaviours. So licenses can stand in for a contract by which the parties basically agree that monetary compensation is not the kind of consideration required, but some other value, like recognising a copyright or propagating a freedom. Let's put this in another light. A license bypasses the coercive power of money and goes straight to coercion. With GPL the author wants something in return, a behaviour. With BSD the author wants something in return, a different kind of behaviour. One is not a crusader while the other is a nihilist. You can see where the whole split in BSD and GPL philosophy arises now. BSD basically abdicates that power and by saying Do what thy will protects the value of the code. GPL says Do what I will, which is to protect the wishes of the coder. On the one hand BSD puts product before producer, which seems systematic and anti-humanist, on the other GPL ignores the zero sum fallacy of a zero cost reproduction, because the loss to freedom by one is a loss to freedom for all. Two conceptual precedents might be useful. The first is in Rousseau's social contract where he claims that freedom starts where the law begins. The other can be found in Marcuse's analysis of tolerance as a potential form of tyranny. Through these you can see that there are _no_ devices that grant, remove, or simply ignore the behaviour of others, that are somehow free from values. It is this Pre-enlightenment thinking, where the Law is an abstract eternal point of view, beyond and above society, that is out of date. a. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] expr alternative
Sorry about the South Park bit Georg, I was trying to be too clever and do a snotty thing, making a scathing wise-guy commentary on a company and community, while not naming any names. As a believer in plain communication I should have the courage to just come out and say it: Apple are a crap company, They treat their developers like shit by making them pawns in a game, and it would serve developers better to walk away from their platform and stop helping them hurt free software. There. Unfortunately some sensitive people take issue with that kind of plain talk. And you're absolutely right, as I happily concede, asking is appropriate, even if it does cause discomfort. Now, since Hardoff asked both parties, and got an enthusiastic response from the author, and IRCAM down the chain, we are just waiting for Apple to enthusiastically respond or defend their position with a cogent argument. So far it's looking like Kafka's Before the Law, except with riddles and obfuscated tautologies in place of the gatekeepers simple refusal. On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 22:40:16 +0100 Georg Bosch k...@stillavailable.com wrote: Am 24.10.2011 um 11:55 schrieb Andy Farnell: On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:54:59 +0900 i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote: What makes you think its okay to ask someone to reconsider a carefully made moral decision simply for your convenience? I thought it would be ok to ask at least? Would it really be that bad? Sure. I can only tell you my own experience of that. Would you care to hear why it's bad? based on personal experience I'll explain what I think. I usually stay away from discussions like this, but I strongly disagree here. IMHO asking is always ok. My experience, both asking and being asked, is this: if you release something, you have to deal with licensing, and though some aspects of it are interesting, its a nuisance to deal with generally. I want to do fun stuff with code, not wade through legal terms. What could be better than just asking the person who wrote the code 'hey, is it ok if i use it for this and that' and an actual human being replies? The chance to bypass all legalese and just ask the creator is certainly a nice feature of the internet. Ironically, these things were - in contrast to bananas initial question - mostly related to apple (i.e. pd code for rjdj scenes). And while I am certainly not amused by apples current lock-in policies business practices, the experience of being able to talk directly with the author for me far outweighs having licenses fighting each other, even if its for the better of mankind or the economy. If you have strong moral or political ideas behind your licensing choice, I don't see a problem when the are - literally - questioned: stand by them or question them yourself, it's your choice. And I had a hard time following Andy's Southpark and Drug dealer analogies - even though I read a whole book he wrote ;) Cheers, Georg ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] expr alternative
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 17:52:26 +0900 i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote: oh FFS. This is for _your_ sake. Dismissing the implications of the coversation you started seems a little ungrateful, if you don't mind me saying so. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] expr alternative
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:00:55 +0900 i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote: if people want to talk politics in a thread started by a person with bananas in their name, then what do they expect? LOL. Well there you go. Welcome to the fruit basket. get back to occupying wall street you hippies! I think all the hippes took jobs in banks in '69 It's their pissed off kids making meery hell outside. -- Andy Hatstand Napolean III Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] expr alternative
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: little documentation or support whatsoever-- not to mention hardware like Apple's which gets periodic firmware updates specifically to break compatibility with anything other than Itunes. This is what I mean by anti-economics. Like when EU trade agreements meant that farmers burned food surplus 1000 miles away from famine. Like the legendary E.T. landfill where Atari dumped millions of game cartridges in an act of vanity. The principle of destroying wealth to create profit is disgusting. It is less damaging at the global level to just print money. It is one man digging a hole and another filling it in, to create employment. And it is predicated on the fallacy of infinite resources. DRM, region lockouts, deliberate (and maintained) incompatibilities, are all part of the defective by design rationale, a deliberate anti-choice approach that must be carefully distinguished from plurality and competition. Fully working generic units are shipped from China. Then we break them. Sometimes we employ as many people to limit the functionality of devices as to design and create them. This ensures they end up in landfills sooner than necessary. If people understood its impact, phone locking would be illegal on purely environmental grounds. These paradoxes of instrumental reason that Nash and Marcuse visited in different ways, through game theory and critique aren't inevitable or intrinsic problems. They require short-sighted stupidity to come alive. The necessary conditions for short term thinking are not just crisis, but traits like vanity, duplicity and deception that go with marketing dominated companies where image is valued over impact and form over function. The distance between the Apple 1984 television advert and current corporate stance is breathtaking. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] free market
On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 10:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: and that the best decisions for a society are made when responding to the so-called invisible hand of the market. The invisible hand ? Heretic of little faith! Is it not the hand of God? The last force from which us masters of everything still retreat in confusion? Will our economist priests save us? We must make sacrifices. Human sacrifices. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [semi-OT]: Licenses [WAS] Re: expr alternative
I'm glad you caught my drift Lorenzo. It was never Matt's asking that bothered me, nor the letter nor the spirit of the authors' licences'. But it was the reasons for him feeling the need to ask in the first place. The mechanism by which a simple manufacturer of hardware gets to set themselves up as arbiters of taste, decency, political correctness, code quality, economic models, acceptable use... ... is baffling and disturbing. On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 09:36:20 +0200 Lorenzo Sutton lsut...@libero.it wrote: I think it's in a way good that people realise some of the close-minded (at the most) views and policies of Apple. And their consequences. Especially in the 'creative/artistic' landscape which the company -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [semi-OT]: Licenses [WAS] Re: expr alternative
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:20:32 +0900 i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote: However, one of the real special gems for me in my journey through the world of pd, was discovering that not only was it a fantastic way to program, but also, that Miller had issued pd through a license that i had never even heard of before, and it was the best sort of license i could imagine. It was a dream come true, when i got a job to do audio development and i could just do it all in pd because we could just embed the entire pd program inside our app. Yes it's wonderful. The magic of Millers Pd and our persistent advocacy of it paid off, and it's opened the door for scores of new companies, hundreds of new breed audio programmers who can rapidly produce thousands of cool new products. And it's great to hear you landed on your feet with a gig doing a skilled and very enjoyable thing. ;) It would be remiss to not mention that the early movers this direction had to fight tooth and nail _against_ the manufacturers who ultimately share in the profits of this business. And we continue to fight daily against moronic anti-economies of shortsighted, lazy, greedy, controlling profit before productivity thinking. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] expr alternative
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:16:18 +0900 i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote: in that case, it might be as simple as a nice email to Shadrokh Yadegari to get his expr for pd license changed to LGPL too?? What makes you think its okay to ask someone to reconsider a carefully made moral decision simply for your convenience? -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] expr alternative
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 16:54:59 +0900 i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote: What makes you think its okay to ask someone to reconsider a carefully made moral decision simply for your convenience? I thought it would be ok to ask at least? Would it really be that bad? Sure. I can only tell you my own experience of that. Would you care to hear why it's bad? based on personal experience I'll explain what I think. If it can be made to come across okay and not seem overly pious or judgemental. But when you say nice email, that's actually loaded with a whole bunch of invisible values and implications, some of which are really sticky. best, Andy -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] expr alternative
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 19:33:25 +0900 i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote: hi andy - of course i'd be very willing to know your point of view here, particularly from your firsthand experience. I got an email like that, it kept me awake for some nights. I experienced annoyance, anger, conflict, frustration. Finally made a utilitarian choice, a greater good served by me giving up on a couple of strong principles, on that occasion. (Maybe the person involved is reading, please know that it's still okay, I did not change my mind, thanks for making me think hard about a whole lot of important things.) The thing about a nice email, no matter how politely and tactfully you pen it, is that such a request can feel quite uncomfortable. First it makes the assumption that the programmers choice of licence was somehow shallow, maybe even arbitrary. Let's give all programmers the benefit of the doubt and assume their intelligence extends to proper reflection. The alternative is that they inherited a licence which they have no power or choice to amend. Secondly, when someone from your own community appeals to you to help them with a cool project, maybe even to help them make a buck or two, I expect you are like me and rarely hesitate if its no great cost or time commitment. And if your needs and values clearly conflict, then its easy to say no and properly communicate why. But now familiar tensions between business and morality have come to the fore in the last few years, and make demands of bad faith on you. You're basically saying, I want to do this, but I am being bullied by corporation X to do it this way, and since you are the weaker of two conflicting moral opponents I choose to question your values and ask you if you will move in order to suit me (and by proxy the corporation). To put it in plain talk, its like getting a message from an old friend who got himself mixed up with with some bad drug dealers and needs you to bail him out or something nasty is going to happen. It's a dilemma where helping or not helping feels equally wrong. Where was that friend last week, before he needed the money so bad? Giving them money will just get them more enmeshed with a bad scene. I don't mean that to reflect on you personally, it's just something that needs to be put out there in the context change the licence being an option. It should be a last resort after many other options have been considered. Perfectly good choices consistent with proper moral and free market principles are; if you are a businessmen or lawyer for whom it might be an option why not start your own app store. Or if you're a coder able to pull off writing a non GPL version of the object from scratch, do that. For the rest of the artists, choosing another platform for your application would be the logical, rational choice. So would not using [expr], which is easily replaced by discrete objects and a little thought. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] expr alternative
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 07:46:03 -0700 Marvin Humphrey mar...@rectangular.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 08:36:39AM +0100, Andy Farnell wrote: On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 11:16:18 +0900 i go bananas hard@gmail.com wrote: in that case, it might be as simple as a nice email to Shadrokh Yadegari to get his expr for pd license changed to LGPL too?? Marvin, Bill thank you both of you make fair points in favour of petitioning developers, and in particular, silence from fear of offending _is_ silly, and I heartily agree that if you don't ask you don't get. It's not a discouragement to Matt to contact the author, who may well say sure lets do it. Neither do I valorise BSD, GPL or any other licence over another in this conversation. More original software, not dependent on a chain of licenses can be trivial to re-license. Indeed I've done it more than once with a simple email. Not to overplay the trauma of my trouble Bill, I've since made a full recovery you'll be pleased to know, and while the emotions may have caused thoughts, there were no permanent scars. You're right though, I've put material out with shoddily scripted or ambiguous licences, which is worse for everyone, and the truth was I didn't care more than to abandon it to the public domain for pedagogical reasons assuming anyone who apprehended it would trivially produce their own improved version. Guys, there's a more complex point I am trying to make here, and I don't think its heard because you abstracted the case and tried to form generalisations. Great programming, lousy philosophy. :) Corporate power and the societal assumptions that lead to its normalisation might come alive through a little story Eric Cartman wants a birthday party. Nay he demands it. And he demands that his friends attend. Since Cartman is popular, not being in his circle of friends means certain social exclusion, said friends are thus compelled to attend. Now Cartman is very clear. Kyle must bring a red mega-man, Stan must bring a blue mega-man. And Kenny, a green mega-man. It's not that Kenny's parents are guilty of the great sin of being poor, they could save up their food cheques and pawn them for a mega-man as Cartman rightly points out, but they don't believe in action figure violence. Mr Mc Cormick's dilemma is that he loves his son and wants him to be Cartmans friend, but resents Kennys happiness being used as a hostage to apply pressure on him, and mock his values as inadequate. Anyway, Kenny buys the damn mega-man, swallows it, chokes and dies. The end. Maybe I ought to be careful drawing too fine a comparison between pester power, or toxic childhood syndrome http://www.amazon.co.uk/Toxic-Childhood-Modern-Damaging-Children/dp/0752873598 and the experiences of brand addicted infantilised adults working through their technology fetishes. Oh but the shiny shiny one has this! Kyle Broflovskis mum bought him one! Kenny could beg Cartman to let him to the party without a mega-man present. As if. The truth is he hates that whining manipulative narcissistic wanker, but his insecurity means he needs to be seen as his friend, so its easier to petition a more reliable care giver. [All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.] -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (breaking symbols) was Re: find a list of numbers in a text file
Exactly. I'll often use one (or its signal equivalent [*~ 1]) as an anchor point or temprorary placeholder for something with a large in/out degree but undecided function. Like a way to 'hang on' to a bunch of connections in working memory. Hubs often represent points that will either break out (become outlets to a parent) or become subpatches. Having an object already there means its name can be replaced by [outlet] or [pd newfunction] without remaking those cords. Since they look rather ugly and sick out like a sore thumb, they are easily cleaned up at the end. I've often wondered is there any penalty overhead if you leave a few lying around? I assume its negligable. On Tue, 13 Sep 2011 15:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: On Mon, 12 Sep 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: Yes, I forgot about the hub. There's that, too. But if you have a [t a] with one wire in and one wire out then chances are you ought to have used a segmented wire. But those aren't available, so you use [t a], and in these cases I give it a minus one. Not necessarily... when I have a [t a] with a single wire on each side, chances are that it's a past hub or a future hub or both. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Output numbers consecutively, one at a time in PD
Follow the examples under the [list] object help tree until you find an example called list sequencer. On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 13:48:44 -0500 Sebastian Valenzuela svalenzuelamu...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I need an object that will output a sequence of numbers [that I would program], one at a time, every time i send it a bang. I need this to loop. So if my set of numbers are [2, 5, 7] it would go... bang - 2, bang - 5, bang - 7, bang - 2... etc. Is there such an object? If not, what could I use to make this operation? Thank you for your help, Sebastian p.s. Sorry if this is a simple operation, i'm sort of new to the pd environment. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Book Hunt (Ross Kirk)
Anyone near London UK got a copy of Ross Kirk New Digital Musical Instruments: Control And Interaction Beyond the Keyboard, 2006? Begin forwarded message: Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 20:04:34 +0100 From: Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk To: Duncan Brown brown...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Major Project - Book Hunt There is such a thing as an inter-library loan request. You fill out a form at the BL, they ask York if they can loan it and they post it down to London for a couple of weeks. It usually costs a fair bit, maybe 20 or more. But better than asbestosis. I might forward this to some folk in case anyone knows of a copy near London. best Andy On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 19:52:28 +0100 Duncan Brown brown...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Andy, Hope your doing well? I'm trying to get a look at this book as part of my project (Novel Interfaces for Musical Performance) but the British Library are unable to release it. Apparently it's one of many books that has been exposed to asbestos! -New Digital Musical Instruments: Control And Interaction Beyond the Keyboard (Computer Music and Digital Audio Series) Middleton, Wis. : A-R Editions, c2006. by Ross Kirk http://copac.ac.uk/search?rn=1ti=new+digital+musical+instrumentssort-order=rank Wondering if you might know of anyone with a copy? Or any way I might be able to get a look at one? I have followed the advice of the British Library and checked www.copac.ac.uk which tells me that the Royal College of Music York both have copies. The SAE library unfortunately does not have one. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] cool book (maybe relevant to list discussion)
On Fri, 9 Sep 2011 13:58:40 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: Going out of Programming 101 doesn't get you automatically in the odd and weird stuff. I don't know why you talk about going from an extreme to another. Me neither, we are united in ignorance brother. Just wondering if there was anything in that book you thought was cool. It struck me as a nice idea to compare a bunch of languages. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] cool book (maybe relevant to list discussion)
But we are trained to deduce unreasonable expectations from terse book titles and then blame that on the publishers. I'm glad Peter posted the Norvig article and guess the 'ars longa, vita brevis' theme is there in Tate's book title in a cheeky way. Of the languages I've encountered, maybe over 20 if allowing things like bash and assembly, most I haven't used in years. They were formative. Or they were trendy. The most practical language for me has that word in its acronym expansion. I once learned a functional language called ML, just to teach it, because someone had decided it should be on a syllabus. I suspect we may agree well on the value of such academic trajectories Mathieu, however I was interested to see in the Woodman book you mentioned; From ML to C via Modula-3: an approach to teaching programming which seems like a torturous path to put students through. Anyway, Tate wants to urge this empirical pluralism, that learning languages is good for you whether you use them or not, for purely self-developmental reasons. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] cool book (maybe relevant to list discussion)
On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 14:09:15 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: BTW, the first study about programming language comparison happened around 1969-1972. Love to know more about that. Can you remember the study title or keywords? a. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] cool book (maybe relevant to list discussion)
It's more a general theme in the discussion, I think the author's background is web so the casual examples mention it, at least in the bits I browsed - he was talking about erlang as a solution for distributed databases. The main examples for each language seemed standard compsci problems though, sorting, permuting, factoring etc. On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 22:28:10 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: On Thu, 8 Sep 2011, Andy Farnell wrote: I was flicking through it in Foyles bookshop yesterday and thought of many of the discussions we've had here of late. The style and content seem somewhat tuned to a web POV, but I think Pders would find something interesting. Just wondered if anyone else had read more because I'm tempted to buy it. Where did you find the web-related content ? I couldn't see any in two two downloadable chapters. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [OT] cool book (maybe relevant to list discussion)
On Fri, 9 Sep 2011 11:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: « Standard compsci » problems exclude a lot of new things for pedagogical reasons, to stay within the level of difficulty of first-year programming students and middle-year algorithmics students. There isn't a reason to stay within that problem set when the goal is to compare languages for daily use in potentially big practical projects. Standard problems also make good, familiar points of comparison. Maybe just time and space play a part. As a writer my own experience is that no matter your good intentions to be complete, one must draw a line (and if you don't the publisher will). Sadly it's the fringe cases, and the esoterica that is often most interesting. a. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] ternary counting
Try a [div] [mod] chain Four digits base 3 would be base 10 | [t f f]_[mod 3]_ D0 | [div 3] | [t f f]_[mod 3]_ D1 | [div 3] | [t f f]_[mod 3]_ D2 | div 3] | [t f f]_[mod 3]_ D3 | etc. for more digits On Thu, 8 Sep 2011 15:19:03 +0200 tim vets timv...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, Does anyone have an example of how to do ternary counting in pd? 00 01 02 10 11 12 20 21 22 ...etc thanks, Tim -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] [OT] cool book (maybe relevant to list discussion)
Anyone seen this? http://pragprog.com/book/btlang/seven-languages-in-seven-weeks I was flicking through it in Foyles bookshop yesterday and thought of many of the discussions we've had here of late. The style and content seem somewhat tuned to a web POV, but I think Pders would find something interesting. Just wondered if anyone else had read more because I'm tempted to buy it. a. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] importing / using large equation into expr command
Hi Rick, As per the olde Dorset saying, to strangers seeking directions... You dont want to go from here Looks like a mistake of exchanging computational space for data space. In other words, probably the program used to generate this text file file is closer to what you actually should do (some kind of convolution is it?) You have a sum of some amplitude offset, times some tabulated value, times alternately sin or cos terms, times some ratios of the sample number. Only the table values really need dealing with. modulo two will give you either 0 or 1 to determine whether to choose sin() or cos(), or better, multiply that by pi/2 and incorporate it into the trig term as cos(x) = sin(pi/2 -x) The sample number is an int that keeps increasing by one and everything else is constant. [until] can be used to construct an iteration, and an integration (running sum) can be done using the accumulator idiom. On Sun, 4 Sep 2011 11:35:39 -0400 Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: A .pd file is a text file, so you can just open your Pd patch in a text editor, and paste in the equation. But honestly with something that big, I think making a C external might be easier in the long run. .hc On Sep 4, 2011, at 9:22 AM, Rick T wrote: Greetings All I have 2 large equations that I would like to use with the expr command. Is it possible to import a text file into the expr command? Here's an example of one of the 2 equations http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6576402/questions/eq1.txt Basically it's a 1 second periodic signal with sample rate at 44100 which the equation gives me control over the frequency,amplitude,phase and vertical offset I do have the ability to create a wave (audio) file of the equation first and import the wave file into PureDate, but will I have the same control over the frequency,amplitude,phase and vertical offset that the equation gives me?. If you want to know what I'm creating. 1) The first option will import a text file into a table/array that will control the variables of the equations that will vary frequency,amplitude,phase and vertical offset over time. 2) The second option will allow the variables to be controllable/ variable using a midi controller and it's audio signal played I know Puredata can do this very well with small equations and the expr command but using large equations I'm not sure. Also if I should be doing this in a different way please let me know I'm always willing to learn something new. Thanks -- ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.- Thomas Jefferson -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] importing / using large equation into expr command
Actually, now I spotted this part. I do have the ability to create a wave (audio) file of the equation first and import the wave file into PureDate, but will I have the same control over the frequency,amplitude,phase and vertical offset that the equation gives me?. Why not import the wave into a table, scan the oscillator with a phasor and add a frequency, amplitude or phase shift in the signal domain? If that's what you really want to do it's _much_ easier than you might think. (frequency) | [phasor~] | [+~]-(phase shift) | [*~]-(size of table) | [tabread~ table] | [+~]-(amplitude offset) | (output) -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] how to change bp~ frequency at sample rate?
Yes its useful to have signal control over resonance too although less common to need it. An example is if you make a string or drum skin model with parallel resonances and you want to dampen it when it's sounding. Its been done before using [rpole~] and [rzero~] objects, but IIRC was unstable when sweeping the resonance and cutoff simultaneously. Filter topologies, with the same poles and zeros but in different orders, will behave differently when you vary the coefficients, so testing with envelopes on both controls should be done. On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 16:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: On Fri, 2 Sep 2011, Roman Haefeli wrote: According to its helpfile, [vcf~ ] is the same as [bp~ ], but with a voltage controlled aka signal rate inlet for frequency. Now let's say that I want to have all three inlets as signals. Is there an abstraction for doing that ? I just made part of one, by looking at http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/techniques/latest/book-html/node143.html But I'm not done yet. Anyone interested ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Ot: Repetition of short patterns
There are many. Short patterns are the probe of choice for experiments to map aural cognitive abilities. See all these Van Noorden - streaming integration Reiss Jones and Yee - attending Crowder - memory Bigand - segmentation Warren - order, length, integrative perception Bregman - scene analysis in Thinking in Sound, McAdams and Bigand 1993 Oxford University Press If you're looking for a school experiment you'll find plenty of ideas there, and further references. Andy On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:50:13 -0700 adam sanches adam.sanc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, i was wondering if there are any psychoacustic studies related to repetition of short patterns. Do you know any autor, text or book related to this? any idea would be aprreciated Thanks A. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
If the developer exhibits a capacity for purposefulness, couldn't that same a sense of purpose be used to undo a mistake? Or do you suggest the errors were placed there as obstacles with malice aforethought? On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Joe White wrote: If there are issues with ZenGarden then wouldn't it make sense to bring them up with the developer? It's not like they couldn't be resolved. No, because those issues were created on purpose. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
I think reasonable suggestions might be welcome. Some say the sulphur fumes, screams and maniacal laughter emanating from Martin and Joe's subterranean laboratory beneath the opera house catacombs is too intimidating. But I've heard that mortals making offerings have been spared. Occasionally. On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 13:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Andy Farnell wrote: If the developer exhibits a capacity for purposefulness, couldn't that same a sense of purpose be used to undo a mistake? Well, the developer would have to think of those things as mistakes first, and also, to think of vanilla's ways as being the solutions. When the idea of «cleaner design than vanilla's» is to use a big if else if else if else if else if else if instead of the constructor table and instead of every method table, does it make it look like you or I has any business trying to change the mind of the author, and does that look easier than (!!!) submitting patches to Miller ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801 Villeray, Montréal, QC -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] netsend/netreceive + GUI bug
I have no idea if this is a relevant aside, but while chatting with someone about optimising a little embedded webserver the other day and I spotted this. http://www.monkey.org/~provos/libevent/ Whatever the policy tweaks, if any, maybe this offers some ideas regarding the implementation, not least of all because it unifies several kinds of IO at the same point, including stdio. Andy On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 10:57:15 -0700 Miller Puckette m...@ucsd.edu wrote: Hmm... I don't have a clear idea of what the scheduling policy or policies should be for incoming and outgoing network traffic. I think I need to figure that out first before starting to tweak netsend/netreceive (and pd~, which could share some code with netsend/receive if I could think things through better.) cheers Miller On Mon, Aug 08, 2011 at 12:58:06PM -0400, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: Speaking of workarounds what is wrong with clock_delay(0) implementation of disis_ netreceive when it uses existing facilities, has no noticeable overhead, does not drop packets our crash GUI, and is very easy to implement? Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A Composition, Music Technology Director, DISIS Interactive Sound Intermedia Studio Director, L2Ork LinuxLaptop Orchestra Assistant Co-Director, CCTAD CHCI, CS, and Art (by courtesy) Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, VA 24061-0240 (540) 231-6139 (540) 231-5034 (fax) disis.music.vt.edu l2ork.music.vt.edu ico.bukvic.net Jeppi Jeppi jepp...@hotmail.com wrote: That's exactly what happens, some minutes after clients start sending massive OSC stuff to my server, its GUI freezes but PD works ok and I can operate with sliders and number boxes, though I can't see anything. Frustrating :) Josep M From: h...@at.or.at To: ma...@artengine.ca Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 18:04:37 -0400 CC: pd-list@iem.at; m...@ucsd.edu; zmoel...@iem.at; martin.pe...@sympatico.ca Subject: Re: [PD] netsend/netreceive + GUI bug On Aug 7, 2011, at 5:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Sun, 7 Aug 2011, Miller Puckette wrote: Here's a guess... if incoming (vanilla) netreceive traffic is swamping Pd, then since Pd prioritizes input from GUI above output back to GUI, the output never gets scheduled. If that were happening, you'd see the windows freeze but still be able to send Pd events from the GUI (hitting buttons in the patch, for instance.) That sounds like the same symptom as when there is an extra unquoted open-brace. What would it take to convince you to port your DD escaping code to Pd 0.43? :-D :-D :-D .hc Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (breaking symbols) was Re: find a list of numbers in a text file
On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 14:21:09 +0800 Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx wrote: Would you consider adding a more generally useful [split] object I agree this would be a useful core object. What problems, if any, do you forsee? Would those outputs implicitly be symbols? Or would we venture the types in advance like [split f / f] to obtain two floats Turning the symbol 5/7 to a real number would then be [symbol 5/7( | [split f / f] |/ [/ ] | [number 0.714285] -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] (breaking symbols) was Re: find a list of numbers in a text file
On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 17:12:49 -0400 Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:29 PM, Andy Farnell wrote: On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 14:21:09 +0800 Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx wrote: Would you consider adding a more generally useful [split] object I agree this would be a useful core object. What problems, if any, do you forsee? Would those outputs implicitly be symbols? Or would we venture the types in advance like [split f / f] to obtain two floats Turning the symbol 5/7 to a real number would then be [symbol 5/7( | [split f / f] |/ [/ ] | [number 0.714285] I think to fit with the Pd type system in general, it should automatically interpret things into floats and symbols (http://puredata.info/dev/PdDefinitions ): Pd Manual 2.1.2 The text is divided into atoms separated by white space. Atoms are either numbers or symbols like '+'. Pd Manual 2.1.2 Anything that is not a valid number is considered a symbol. That seems unambiguous. So I guess if you wanted your numbers as symbols, you'd explicitly convert them back to symbols. I used to use [symbol2list] a lot, so Iohannes suggestion is interesting. But could that split on an arbitary symbol like Chris suggests for the proposed [split] ? a. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] pd message order?
IIRC they'll appear in the order the objects were created. To be clear I would use a trigger to explicitly order and send to destinations with different (and meaningful names) In this case the name is best chosen to reflect the intended action, rather than the source. Hope that makes sense. a. On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 23:16:38 +0200 Ludwig Maes ludwig.m...@gmail.com wrote: so standard objects have right to left ordering of outlet processing, but what about send and receive for messages? if multiple objects receive for the same name, which one gets it first? is there a triggerlike object for messages, or should I send multiple messages each with a differentiated tag like s bla1, s bla2, s s bla3 even when I send the same message? -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pitch Shift
Different approaches suit different audio material and requirements. For very small shifts of a semitone or so either way the SSB modulation trick can still sound great. On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 10:31:36 +0200 Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com wrote: If you can get LADSPA plugins to work in Pd, there's also Steve Harris' Pitch Scaler (http://plugin.org.uk/ladspa-swh/docs/ladspa-swh.html#id1193). I tried it once, and it's the best sounding pitchshifter i've tried, with a decent latency I think. Cheers, Pierre 2011/8/2 Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org On Mon, Aug 01, 2011 at 09:20:43PM -0700, Eduardo Patricio wrote: what about e_pitchshift (from RjDj)? That's the G09 example patch transformed to an abstraction. Ciao -- Frank ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pitch Shift
Right now there's an interesting discussion about pitch shifting algorithms on music-dsp. a. On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 12:23:18 -0300 Alexandre Torres Porres por...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the answers, I've seen the G.09 into an abstraction around and thought that th rjdj version could be it. It's also on the pdmtl package right? In which there's also a shifter based on the phase vocoder, anyway, the idea was to ask for something new. Thanks for the psola version julian, didn't know it, but as frank pointed, it may not suit me as I tried it and I prefer the phase vocoder version. And Pierre, in the link you sent it warns that it works best for small deviations, which can actually be good for me in one specific application, but not much on another unfortunately. I will try it, thanks! Anyway, I made a quick google on Stephen M. Sprengler's pitch scaler design and found no info on what the procedure is like :( By the way, I found this very interesting webpage about a pitchshifter~ object in Pd http://www.katjaas.nl/pitchshift/pitchshift.html But weirdly enough, I found no link to download it. By the fast look I gave it, it seemed to be an implementation based on the phase-vocoder process, right? But it also seems to differ in some way, could anyone tell me how exactly? And, well, most importantly, where is it??? thanks Alex -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] [PD-announce] EAT: A New Abstraction Package
Welcome Rich, Thanks for sharing your abs. cheers, Andy On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 12:12:54 +0100 Rich Thomas ric...@gmail.com wrote: Dear list, (This is my first post to you, but I have long since been a follower.) I would like to introduce a new abstraction package called ElectroAcoustic Tools (EAT). EAT is a new set of abstractions for composition and diffusion that are currently under development in Pure Data Extended 0.42.5. EAT is accessible for preliminary educative use, but it also embraces the advanced functionality that Pd can provide for digital signal processing effects and spatialisation. You can download the package on Source Forge: https://sourceforge.net/p/eatpuredata/ This is a small first release to test the framework and functionality and I would be very grateful of any feedback that you feel able to provide on any aspect of the project. You can see my presentation on EAT at the Pd Convention in Weimar on 9 August at 1100. I hope that you find them to be a useful contribution. Rich Thomas ___ Pd-announce mailing list pd-annou...@iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] PdCon11: Fraunhofer IDMT Excursion, Coach transfer Weimar-Berlin and accomodation
Hey all, FWIW I went to hear the wavefield array in Ilmenau a few years ago and it cooked my noodle. You will never be satisfied in a regular Dolby theatre after hearing this. Its sick. Do check it out if given the chance. a. On Mon, 1 Aug 2011 23:47:56 +0200 Max abonneme...@revolwear.com wrote: Dear Participants of the 4th Pure Data Convention 2011, Tuesday afternoon we offer an excursion to our Partner Fraunhofer Institute for Digital Media Technology (IDMT) in Ilmenau with two small vans. You'll get to see the wave-field synthesis system IOSONO and a few other of their developments. The downside is that you will be absent for the workshops that happen at the same time. Since we have about 15 seats available please put your name on this list (get an account and log in the wiki) http://www.uni-weimar.de/medien/wiki/PDCON:Schedule/Excursion_Ilmenau No charges apply. Also we have hired a coach to bring you from Weimar to Berlin, which is roughly a three hours trip. It will leave Saturday around 10 in Weimar and we should be in Berlin at 13h (if we don't get stuck in the end of holiday season). I'll have to decide which coach we are renting depending on the demand. The bus company needs to know until this thursday which bus we want. Please put your name on this list asap (get an account and log in the wiki): http://www.uni-weimar.de/medien/wiki/PDCON:Schedule/Coach_transfer Charges of around 10,- Eur p.P. apply (Train is 52,- Eur). If you have booked your hostel with us you will need to pay the special group deal of 18,- Eur per night at the hostel directly. If you are active participant (presenting, performing, teaching in at the convention) and you have checked the field that you need our support for the accommodation, we will cover for you. Passive participants (NOT presenting, performing teaching at the convention) who checked the field for support will get a subvention of 8,- Eur, thus they need to pay 10,- at the hostel. João has noted that there is NO arrangement for accommodation in Berlin. Please arrange that yourselves, you may use the wiki, Pd-List or Facebook http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=183123995057935 to organize yourselves if you want to share something. Follow us on twitter http://twitter.com/#!/PdCon2011 We are looking forward to have you here next week! Max and the Team ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] iphone or android for pd?
Have a look at the droid party port by Chis McCormick. It's not as flexible and complete as rjdj, but because you are not locked in (or out) of a system devised for Apples benefit, not yours, it has greater potential for creative ideas in the long run. On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 11:34:22 +0200 Charles Goyard c...@fsck.fr wrote: Hi, ronni montoya wrote: Hi, i was wondering which mobile phone do you recommend for working with pd and rjdj? Should i get an iphone? What do you recommend me? I would recommend an open source/free software operating system. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd monosymphonia
Hi Andrew, That was very interesting to listen to to. Thanks for sharing it. A couple of thoughts, though I may be missing some important point; since you only keep a scope of the last 3 notes you could use float boxes instead of creating tables on the fly. Also, the concept seems to be a base N counter, so approaching this starting with an up-down counter might simplify it. Also [range] seems to be missing for me but easily fixed with a multiply and an add. best andy. On Sun, 26 Jun 2011 00:32:27 +0100 Andrew Faraday jbtur...@hotmail.com wrote: Hey Pders I've been messing with the idea of combining dynamic patching and generative music. And after a few hours of work I've come up with a patch (attached) which uses some rules to build a randomly generated piece of music who's result I'm rather fond of. On opening the patch, a 4-number array is generated, with a choice of 1 single note to choose from. It's played by a simple sine oscillator, then a second iteration generates a second array, choosing from 2 notes (adding one a semitone above), plays the two arrays in order, then generates a third, with 3 notes to choose from, and so on. As the piece progresses, the choice of notes playing through a sequence that's always a low drone, expanding out to a more tangible mid-range, usually coming up with melodic fragments, and then starting to use some higher-pitched sounds. And all the time the feedback on a delay unit on the output, of the system. When the range of notes reaches 127, the feedback jumps from 60% to 90%, changing the mood of the piece significantly, building to a harsh climax, each frequency range of notes lasting into the next and gains more significance. Like the perceived voices vying for position. Eventually, when a note above midi 127 is played, the synth stops, and the delay tail gradually fades out. I've found this to be an unusually structured and dramatic piece of generative patching. Initially a low drone, which pushes out and explores into melodies, building ideas, and being repeatedly pushed back to it's initial form. Then building into a repeating and expanding set of phases. getting louder and busier. Then a change brings this to a head, and signifies to the audience that the piece could end on any phase, building excitment to an inevitable but always unexpected end. Sorry, I've written quite a lot about this, but I thought the PD list might be interested... If anyone could spare about 15 minutes to listen to the patch in action, I'd love to hear what you think of the artistic result. Thanks in advance. Andrew P.S. I do realize that I could clean this up a great deal. The addition of [table] objects could just as easily be a single expanding array, I could hide modules away in sub patches and the sliders used for visualization could be more efficiently done with gem. -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Piezo, trigger, Arduino
and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20110622/b355/attachment-0001.htm -- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 22:41:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [PD] Pd performance at TED To: Tyler Leavitt thecryofl...@gmail.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: ??? 1308807717.42650.yahoomailclas...@web39408.mail.mud.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Certainly could be. :) Or on the other hand: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cuuRG6-IT8 -Jonathan --- On Thu, 6/23/11, Tyler Leavitt thecryofl...@gmail.com wrote: From: Tyler Leavitt thecryofl...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Pd performance at TED To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: ALAN BROOKER alan.brooker2...@gmail.com, pd-list@iem.at Date: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 5:25 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP_w_Mvh9tU Is this a technological parody? On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:57 PM, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: Yes, it's exactly like that.? But that's the way the term was defined, which-- as you point out-- covers wide array of synthesis techniques and uses of digital computers. I would just conclude that it doesn't seem a particularly enlightening term, except for a specific subset of parodies that have to do with technology.? As a term of derision I think it's confusing/confused. -Jonathan --- On Wed, 6/22/11, ALAN BROOKER alan.brooker2...@gmail.com wrote: From: ALAN BROOKER alan.brooker2...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Pd performance at TED To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at, Cody Loyd codyl...@gmail.com Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, ? 10:44 PM On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: You're right, no one ever said that.? Even me. Did you actually look at the patch?? It is a technological parody of record scratching.? It perfectly fits the definition given on this list.? If you don't think so, then please tell me what you can do with that patch that's so musically interesting that it would warrant buying a modern digital computer instead of a turntable. Well, one might want to connect the sampler patch to another patch that produces a contrasting sound, they both would share the same values sent to the atom to change pitches ect. Don't you think to say a patch that emulates scratching sounds from audio samples is a?technological parody of a scratching record player, is a bit like saying a patch that emulates the sound of the?piano?is a technological parody of a piano (they are both instruments)?. I think one purpose of audio software to emulate instruments ? ?Regarding if it is musically interesting, I'm v. sure you know record scratching is(was?) used as an instrument in hip hop and such. If a purpose of audio software is emulation of physical instruments ?then I don't think it should be ?labeled as a technological parody. ?Otherwise you could use the argument 'why have a computer when I can buy a physical instrument' every time?? ?Just sharing thoughts really,?interesting?topic. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20110622/8c452e64/attachment.htm -- ___ Pd-list mailing list Pd-list@iem.at to manage your subscription (including un-subscription) see http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list End of Pd-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 88 *** -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20110623/f50274c9/attachment.htm -- ___ Pd-list mailing list Pd-list@iem.at to manage your subscription (including un-subscription) see http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list End of Pd-list Digest, Vol 75, Issue 91 *** -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] kinect on Debian/Ubuntu made easy
Thanks Hans. There are at least 3 students I can think of who are gonna be very pleased about it. On Sat, 18 Jun 2011 22:32:39 -0400 Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: Hey all, I've used OSCeleton a bit to use the Kinect with Pure Data aka Pd to make a musical instrument with the body. Here's the product of some Patching Circle hacking with a bunch of people: https://github.com/pd-projects/pd-kinect-skeleton http://vimeo.com/21627710 A few of us have also packaged stuff for Debian/Ubuntu including osceleton, the OpenNI and PrimeSense stuff, that's here: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-multimedia/openni.git;a=summary http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-multimedia/primesense-nite-nonfree.git;a=summary http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-multimedia/primesense-kinect-sensor.git;a=summary http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-multimedia/osceleton.git;a=summary And here's binaries of the packages built for Ubuntu Maverick, that might work on other releases of Debian/Ubuntu/Mint: https://launchpad.net/~eighthave/+archive/openni Hope that's useful to people! You should be able to just add that ppa to your system, then apt-get install osceleton to get the Kinect working and outputting OSC. .hc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
