2011/9/4 Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
- Original Message -
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at; João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com
Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev
On Sun, 4 Sep 2011, András Murányi wrote:
Hold on... When Matju talks about how DD works it's *almost* like
backporting from DD to Pd, and in this sense it's historic. And because
of the incompatible licenses, it might be the only way to port from DD
to Pd. Pst...! :O)
So, what are the
On Sat, 3 Sep 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
If you spent the same amount of time working on DD as you do writing
about how DD works, you could spend a lot less time writing about how DD
works, and a lot more time working on DD. :)
Do you think that it would be enough for getting anywhere ?
On Sep 4, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Sat, 3 Sep 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
If you spent the same amount of time working on DD as you do
writing about how DD works, you could spend a lot less time writing
about how DD works, and a lot more time working on DD. :)
Do
- Original Message -
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at; pd-list pd-list@iem.at; João
Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com
Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2011 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
2011/9/4 Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
On Sun, 4 Sep 2011, András Murányi wrote:
Hold on... When Matju talks about how DD works it's *almost* like
backporting from DD to Pd, and in this sense it's historic. And because of
the incompatible licenses, it might be the only way to port
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Receiving, parsing, and executing 1 megabyte of code per second is
actually pretty good, IMHO. What needs to happen is that Pd should call
Tcl procs not send blocks of raw Tcl.
How do you do that ?
DD has sys_mgui(), which operates at a
On Sep 3, 2011, at 2:37 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Receiving, parsing, and executing 1 megabyte of code per second is
actually pretty good, IMHO. What needs to happen is that Pd should
call Tcl procs not send blocks of raw Tcl.
How do
On Sat, 3 Sep 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Here's a good example of what I mean: the drawing commands for obj,msg,
etc boxes should not be in 'pd'. 'pd' should tell 'pd-gui': draw an
object on this canvas, at this x,y with these inlets and outlets.
pd-gui should also handle the mouse
- Original Message -
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
Cc: pd-list pd-list@iem.at; João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com
Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2011 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
On Sat, 3 Sep 2011, Hans-Christoph
Haha, I'll pretend I understand this Andy :)
On 28 August 2011 18:29, Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote:
I think reasonable suggestions might be welcome.
Some say the sulphur fumes, screams and maniacal laughter emanating
from Martin and Joe's subterranean laboratory beneath the
To be honest I don't care.
You can get into semantics all you like but it's a library that can run Pd
patches.
If there are issues with ZenGarden then wouldn't it make sense to bring them
up with the developer? It's not like they couldn't be resolved.
I'm just looking to create a GUI that
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Joe White wrote:
To be honest I don't care.
Ah. Nevermind then.
If there are issues with ZenGarden then wouldn't it make sense to bring
them up with the developer? It's not like they couldn't be resolved.
No, because those issues were created on purpose.
If the developer exhibits a capacity for purposefulness, couldn't
that same a sense of purpose be used to undo a mistake? Or do you
suggest the errors were placed there as obstacles with malice
aforethought?
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:34:18 -0400 (EDT)
Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
If the developer exhibits a capacity for purposefulness, couldn't that
same a sense of purpose be used to undo a mistake?
Well, the developer would have to think of those things as mistakes first,
and also, to think of vanilla's ways as being the
- Original Message -
From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca
To: Andy Farnell padawa...@obiwannabe.co.uk
Cc: pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
If the developer exhibits
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
_Submitting_ patches to Miller is easy.
hehe, yeah, I know what you mean, though I really meant getting the
patches accepted.
___
| Mathieu Bouchard tél: +1.514.383.3801
I think reasonable suggestions might be welcome.
Some say the sulphur fumes, screams and maniacal laughter emanating
from Martin and Joe's subterranean laboratory beneath the opera house
catacombs is too intimidating. But I've heard that mortals making offerings
have been spared.
Occasionally.
- Original Message -
From: Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: András Murányi muran...@gmail.com; pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
On 2011-08-26 11:31, Jonathan Wilkes
That has little to do with Tcl/Tk being slow. That has a lot more to
do with how Pd is implemented. It generates and sends raw Tcl to the
GUI, and if you are moving a lot of stuff, that means a lot of raw Tcl
needs to be generated, sent, parsed, and executed. That definitely
slows
That's an excellent example. In the case I just wrote about, using
Tcl's tag and move could reduce 500 KB/sec of Tcl code to 5KB/sec.
.hc
On Aug 26, 2011, at 9:46 PM, Patrice Colet wrote:
This is very slow because everything selected is moving, this method
makes a very slow dragging,
Btw-- even for the size 1000 array above, part of the cpu usage and
sluggishness is
caused by whatever computations pd is doing before sending the message
to the
gui to create the next rectangle (see my message earlier in this
thread). So my
example isn't exactly comparing tcl/tk speed to
- Original Message -
From: João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com
To: Patrice Colet colet.patr...@free.fr; pd-list pd-list@iem.at; Jonathan
Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: András Murányi muran...@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
Btw-- even
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011, Joe White wrote:
For fun I was making a GUI interface for OSX with ZenGarden, a Pd runtime
library.
ZenGarden is not a Pd runtime library, even though it's advertised like
that.
ZenGarden thinks that $2 is for getting the first element of a list, and
it also thinks
-dev] tkwidgets
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011, Joe White wrote:
For fun I was making a GUI interface for OSX with ZenGarden, a Pd runtime
library.
ZenGarden is not a Pd runtime library, even though it's advertised like
that.
ZenGarden thinks that $2 is for getting the first element of a list
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
So in ZenGarden,
[1 2 3(
|
[$2(
|
[print]
Gives you 1?
I believe that this was the case, but if it's not, then there's a problem
of that kind that you will hit quickly, as soon as you try to do something
nontrivial.
If so, what does $1 expand
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
So in ZenGarden,
[1 2 3(
|
[$2(
|
[print]
Gives you 1?
I believe that this was the case, but if it's not, then there's a problem of
that kind that you will hit quickly, as soon as you try to do something
On 08/26/2011 02:19 AM, András Murányi wrote:
Yeah and afaiu this is exactly the job that HC just started (see his
announcement below).
Yvan: in my simple understanding it goes like this: 1. getting rid of
tcl-specific code in pd c core 2. minimizing the communication between the
core and the
be of interest.
Cheers,
Joe
--
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 02:19:20 +0200
From: Andr?s Mur?nyi muran...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Message-ID:
CAJtGUK6F3R=Ev+iuvn-82gkux05-fMxTUan2+K5w4c2z5BSy=q
like to hear others, but I'm mostly interested in problems with tcl/tk =
8.5 as the GUI.
From: András Murányi muran...@gmail.com
To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
Yeah and afaiu this is exactly
On 08/26/2011 05:31 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
It might be a good idea to list the problems with tcl/tk so we can weigh them
against the difficulty of using a different GUI toolkit. The problems I see
are:
* difficult to implement a decent zoom function for a canvas
* can't display png
From: yvan volochine yvan...@googlemail.com
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: András Murányi muran...@gmail.com; pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
On 08/26/2011 05:31 PM, Jonathan
On 2011-08-26 11:31, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
It might be a good idea to list the problems with tcl/tk so we can weigh
them against the difficulty of using a different GUI toolkit. The
problems I see are:
* difficult to implement a decent zoom function for a canvas
* can't display png without the
- Original Message -
From: Martin Peach martin.pe...@sympatico.ca
To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
Cc: András Murányi muran...@gmail.com; pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
On 2011-08-26 11:31, Jonathan Wilkes
tcl/tk behaves very slowly for fast calls, such as when dragging an array
of considerable size, or a big group of objects? afaik this is something
that could be improved in the present platform, but how better could it be
when using another gui framework?
It might be a good idea to list
- João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com a écrit :
tcl/tk behaves very slowly for fast calls, such as when dragging an
array
of considerable size, or a big group of objects? afaik this is
something
that could be improved in the present platform, but how better could
it be
when using
From: Patrice Colet colet.patr...@free.fr
To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Cc: András Murányi muran...@gmail.com; Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com;
João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
To: Patrice Colet colet.patr...@free.fr; pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Cc: András Murányi muran...@gmail.com; João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
Yeah and afaiu this is exactly the job that HC just started (see his
announcement below).
Yvan: in my simple understanding it goes like this: 1. getting rid of
tcl-specific code in pd c core 2. minimizing the communication between the
core and the gui (3. defining the api/protocol?) 4. anyone can
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