Den 25. juli 2011 kl. 04.39 skrev John Sessoms:
From: Eckehard Wegner
2011/7/24 Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com:
I'll never understand the complete absence of dignity in terrorist
thought.
I'd nominate this for a MARK ! if it sometrhing to do with photography.
Which in turn prompted my
On a related note, I'm entered in a dog sled race next January. A kennel in
the Upper Peninsula of Michigan - 'Nature's Kennel' offered a package that
will include some training, instruction a dog handler along with a 4 dog
team sled to enter an appropriate class in a race that will run in the
On Jul 24, 2011, at 11:53 , steve harley wrote:
On 2011-07-24 12:09 , John Sessoms wrote:
From: Boris Liberman
Tell me about it. Clocked +44C not long ago in my town. In fact I
started a new hobby. I am now taking pictures of my car's in-dash
thermometer (that also shows date and time) with
Dedicated to everyone who's HOT. Our high today was 2.5 celsius. There's
meant to be a wicked frost tomorrow morning, in the order of -5. So the roads
are going to be iced and the authorities are strongly recommending that
everyone stays home for another day.
On Jul 25, 2011, at 1:30 PM, Christine Aguila wrote:
Well, it hasn't been dull here. My 10 year old used sewing machine died, so
we took it in last Sunday.
Wow, they don't make 'em like they used to. Janet inherited an old Singer
machine that she thinks is about 50 years old. It was owned
On Jul 25, 2011, at 4:32 PM, Anthony Farr wrote:
CADEL! CADEL! CADEL!
AUSSIE! AUSSIE! AUSSIE!
OI! OI! OI!
After his previous second placings it's good for him to finally win it. At
least it wasn't Contador. There would be an outcry.
I'm probably going to set up a
SBS coverage has been impressive. As well as TV, they have had an
online tracker with live streaming, and equivalent android and iOS
apps. And all free.
Ciao,
Pete Mac in Melbourne, who was going to do a celebratory ride today,
but got hit by a car on Saturday and is a bit sore but not broken.
Congrats - doing your bit for the global economy, you deserve a medal.
I have to call Adobe tomorrow about Lightroom--I'm hoping they'll let
me upgrade to Ver. 3 at the upgrade price. There will be lots of data
transfer to learn too. Oh boy, can't wait!
I always get the n.0 versions on
My daughter Anna has her first real properly paid professional role as
a singer and actor. She's in a touring company performing the Pirates
of Penzance in the open air at various stately homes throughout July
and August and she has the female lead role of Mabel. We went to see
them at a
I spent the last few days in York. Here are some snaps for your
enjoyment,
disdain or complete indifference:
http://www.web-options.com/YK/
B
Pigeon lady and the woman walking on the cobbles are excellent. The
pub shots have potential, but none of them quite work for me - lack of
a
Another photo in my Communicating series is now available for viewing.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/5971957861/in/set-
72157625844414410/lightbox/
or
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdgphoto/5971957861/
Thanks for looking. Comments always appreciated
Godfrey
beautiful
On the way back we had another look at the Catholic cathedral. The big
copper dome was due to be lifted off in one piece just as the
aftershocks in June. As it had sustained further damage and was less
stable they decided to disassemble it instead.
http://www.multi.net.nz/earthquake-july/
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:53 +1200, David Mann d...@multisport.net.nz
wrote:
Finally :) I've had a run through my photos from our trip to Sydney last
November.
Sorry Brian, I didn't get any photos of you...
That's undoubtedly all to the good...
Just dropping in on my trip to central
Chris,
Nice pictures of the whole production, the lighting stands out.
The cast should love them.
Congratulations to you daughter on her first professional role.
You have multiple excellent shots of her.
Regards, Bob S.
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 12:47 AM, Chris Mitchell
chris.mitch...@which.net
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote:
Excellent. Perhaps the best of the series IMO.
Paul
Agreed
Dave
On Jul 24, 2011, at 9:07 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
Another photo in my Communicating series is now available for viewing.
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Christine Aguila christ...@caguila.com wrote:
We've got it set up. Darrel's first question was, Where are all the wires?
I have lots to learn; I'm totally discombobulated-- I'm amazed iPhoto does
RAW, and it's editor reminds me of Lightroom a bit. I have
Very nice
Dave
On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote:
A candid street portrait at today's Birmingham, Michigan street fair.
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=13836232
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Finally, indeed! I know how it stinks when your sewing machine is
down. The last time that happened to me, it was a day before
Halloween I was halfway finished with a polar fleece dragon costume
for my (then) four year-old. Talk about panic. :)
And congrats on the Mac. Those are very
Wonderful, Ken. I really envy you.
I ran a few short amateur races decades ago, and entered a number of
weight-pulling contests. I am afraid that I am far to old for sled
dog racing at this point, so I must content myself with enjoying
taking my dog out on short jaunts in the winter.
Dan
Dan
Congratulations to your daughter!
The images are also quite nice.
Dan
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:47 AM, Chris Mitchell
chris.mitch...@which.net wrote:
My daughter Anna has her first real properly paid professional role as
a singer
Ni, ni, ni, ni!!!
From: Cotty
On 22/7/11, Scott Loveless, discombobulated, unleashed:
Sometimes they call at ungodly hours and say Ni to you.
This is true and not easily forgotten!
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Those are just right, Chris - shooting that kind of thing is so tough..
I'm guessing the shooting open air helped exposures a lot...
ann
On 7/25/2011 01:47, Chris Mitchell wrote:
My daughter Anna has her first real properly paid professional role as
a singer and actor. She's in a touring
Christine,
David Pogue (tech writer for the NYTimes) has an excellent book, Switching to
Mac, that is very helpful for recovering Windoze users. He's an outstanding
writer, and the book is a pleasure to read, as well as being very helpful.
Welcome to the Mac world!
Rick
Good to see you back on line, up and running. How about the sewing machine? ;-)
Shouldn't have any problem getting the upgrade to LR. Lightroom 3.4.1
works fine running in Mac OS X Lion. I installed the system update
on Thursday and am quite pleased to see a number of nice improvements,
a fusion
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 07:33:36PM +1200, David Mann wrote:
After his previous second placings it's good for him to finally win it. At
least it wasn't Contador. There would be an outcry.
From some circles, anyway. There is still a strong contingent of
the Contador can do no wrong club,
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 08:00:10AM +0200, DagT wrote:
Den 25. juli 2011 kl. 04.39 skrev John Sessoms:
From: Eckehard Wegner
2011/7/24 Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com:
I'll never understand the complete absence of dignity in terrorist
thought.
I'd nominate this for a MARK ! if it
On 2011-07-24 17:27 , Paul Stenquist wrote:
Thanks Steve. It appears random. but there's a method to my madness:-).
oh i can tell it's not random; you should see my yard, which i often call a
chaos garden ...
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On 2011-07-24 09:14 , John Sessoms wrote:
From: Joseph McAllister
I see your system can't handle 'alt-shift-8' very well, so I'll drop it.
I have no idea what that means?
it's the Mac key sequence (alt=opt) for entering the degree symbol, which was
garbled in the text you quoted from
On 2011-07-20 17:34 , Bob W wrote:
For me the essence of street photography, when it's good (which is very
rarely), is what my film teacher referred to as 'the poetry of everyday
life'. Kertesz, I think, talked about 'small moments'. Elliott Erwitt said
that good photography 'is about noticing
On 25 July 2011 09:35, Bob W wrote:
Did you say she was going to play at the Minack Theatre? That's the place to
go if you get the chance.
No. They're in Penzance today and tomorrow, but at another venue.
There's a rival P of P there in September though!
Here are a couple of snaps:
On 25 July 2011 13:01, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote:
Chris,
Nice pictures of the whole production, the lighting stands out.
The cast should love them.
Congratulations to you daughter on her first professional role.
You have multiple excellent shots of her.
Regards, Bob S.
On 25 July 2011 02:30, Christine Aguila wrote:
Two new toys at once - lucky you!
Not too sure about the PAW though - that twig in the foreground
doesn't do much for it...
Cheers, Chris
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Protecting society for one, yes, and also the belief is widely held
that prison is meant to motivate to resocialize even though by now it
is principally understood that this is not or not always or not
necessarily so... IMO juvenile offenders should be sent to prison for
a short time the very
can you guys open this link? Cheers christine
http://www.caguila.com/test
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the directions.
Christine,
Link works fine, trash container planter with T-mobile and Popeye's
across the street.
Hope the pictures look good on the new monitor.
Regards, Bob S.
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Christine Aguila christ...@caguila.com wrote:
can you guys open this link? Cheers christine
The other day I was headed down to the lake to shoot whatever flora
and/or fauna was making itself available, when I heard the sounds of a
sporting event from the other side of the trees at what I knew to be a
playing field at a local college. As I approached I ascertained that
they were playing
I can :-)
ann
On 7/25/2011 14:27, Christine Aguila wrote:
can you guys open this link? Cheers christine
http://www.caguila.com/test
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Thanks, Bob. The pictures look amazing, much better than the HP monitor. Got
Lightroom 3 set up, so uploaded a test print to my hosting site. Seems to
work. Cheers, Christine
On Jul 25, 2011, at 1:35 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:
Christine,
Link works fine, trash container planter with
Groovy! Thanks, Ann! Cheers, Christine
On Jul 25, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
I can :-)
ann
On 7/25/2011 14:27, Christine Aguila wrote:
can you guys open this link? Cheers christine
http://www.caguila.com/test
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Great set, Chris! I think the company will be pleased. Anna looks great!
Send big congrats to her. Cheers, Christine
On Jul 25, 2011, at 12:47 AM, Chris Mitchell wrote:
My daughter Anna has her first real properly paid professional role as
a singer and actor. She's in a touring company
It does work!
And, I loved the overall feeling of your photo.
Bulent
-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/
http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/bulentcelasun
2011/7/25
The link works fine, but the web page looks a bit empty with that tiny
image. G
Dab
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Christine Aguila christ...@caguila.com wrote:
can you guys open this link? Cheers christine
The sewing machine actually saves me hundreds of dollars a year, since i sew
most of my own clothes; sewing has been a part of my life since I was 13.
Cheers, Christine
On Jul 24, 2011, at 9:00 PM, Jeffery Johnson wrote:
Having to spend all that monies I am not sure if congrats are in
Aussies got Rules? I would never have guessed.
Nice images, Knarf.
Dan
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 2:44 PM, frank theriault
knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
The other day I was headed down to the lake to shoot whatever flora
and/or
Isn't that goofy!? Made me giggle so I snapped a pic. Cheers, Christine
On Jul 24, 2011, at 9:35 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
so why did you throw out the divining rod... afraid to acquire more??
ann
On 7/24/2011 21:30, Christine Aguila wrote:
Hi Everyone:
Well, it hasn't been dull
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Christine Aguila
christ...@caguila.com wrote:
can you guys open this link? Cheers christine
Sure, no problem. Not your greatest photo, however. ;-)
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godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
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I should add that I bought the machine used, and I forget how old it was when I
bought it. I had a Singer before the one I just traded in, and that was used
as well, and I had it for probably about 20 years--my new machine should last a
good long while! The new computer is great, but I love
On Jul 25, 2011, at 3:28 AM, Bob W wrote:
Congrats - doing your bit for the global economy, you deserve a medal.
I have to call Adobe tomorrow about Lightroom--I'm hoping they'll let
me upgrade to Ver. 3 at the upgrade price. There will be lots of data
transfer to learn too. Oh boy,
Thknsa, Dvea! Cheers, Christine
On Jul 25, 2011, at 7:38 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Christine Aguila christ...@caguila.com
wrote:
We've got it set up. Darrel's first question was, Where are all the
wires? I have lots to learn; I'm totally
On Jul 25, 2011, at 2:14 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Christine Aguila
christ...@caguila.com wrote:
can you guys open this link? Cheers christine
Not your greatest photo, however. ;-)
Ya, think. ;-) Big cheers, Christine
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Thanks for the helpful suggestion, Rick. I just may pick that up. Cheers,
Christine
On Jul 25, 2011, at 9:10 AM, Rick Womer wrote:
Christine,
David Pogue (tech writer for the NYTimes) has an excellent book, Switching to
Mac, that is very helpful for recovering Windoze users. He's an
Yey, another seamstress! As to the shopping--Businesses I think are eager to
give deals because they need to sell. There seem to be a lot of summer sales
going on right now. Thanks, Christine! Cheers, Christine/Chicago
On Jul 25, 2011, at 8:21 AM, Christine Nielsen wrote:
Finally,
On Jul 25, 2011, at 10:52 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
Good to see you back on line, up and running. How about the sewing machine?
;-)
Shouldn't have any problem getting the upgrade to LR. Lightroom 3.4.1
works fine running in Mac OS X Lion. I installed the system update
on Thursday and
Really, you don't think the photo is brilliant!? I'm shocked! :-) Not the
best week for photography, Chris. I admit it! Cheers, Christine
On Jul 25, 2011, at 12:50 PM, Chris Mitchell wrote:
On 25 July 2011 02:30, Christine Aguila wrote:
Two new toys at once - lucky you!
Not too
Groovy! Cheers, Christine
On Jul 25, 2011, at 1:58 PM, Bulent Celasun wrote:
It does work!
And, I loved the overall feeling of your photo.
Bulent
-
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/
Worked fine as far as I can tell. Unless it was supposed to do
something other than open a gallery page.
On 7/25/2011 2:27 PM, Christine Aguila wrote:
can you guys open this link? Cheers christine
http://www.caguila.com/test
--
Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an
On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote:
Knarf shoots sports without bicycles ?!?! (and very well, too)
The dirt is so light that it almost looks like ice... wait... it was shot in
Canada... is it hockey baseball?
Hey, we play baseball up here, too. Won the
On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 8:52 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
I think that it's a huge improvement. The crop has everything necessary in
the photo, and nothing that isn't.
Thanks, Larry!
cheers,
frank
--
Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
--
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On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com wrote:
Sure! Coming to you off list.
Thanks for your constructive comments, Jack. I really appreciate it.
I've looked at your crop and I do like it better. I bit more dynamic.
Would you be offended if I cropped it similarly and
On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 9:24 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote:
And a very nice hat wearer as well. Lovely candid shot!
Agreed!
cheers,
frank
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On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Christine Aguila christ...@caguila.com wrote:
Really, you don't think the photo is brilliant!? I'm shocked! :-) Not the
best week for photography, Chris. I admit it! Cheers, Christine
Your photo makes a statement about the banality and sameness of our
On Jul 25, 2011, at 12:06 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:
Aussies got Rules? I would never have guessed.
Without rules, you can't break them.
Nice images, Knarf.
As always.
--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
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On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:47 AM, Chris Mitchell
chris.mitch...@which.net wrote:
My daughter Anna has her first real properly paid professional role as
a singer and actor. She's in a touring company performing the Pirates
of Penzance in the open air at various stately homes throughout July
and
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote:
Excellent. Perhaps the best of the series IMO.
Such an good series it's hard to pick a best, but this would have to
be a strong contender.
Wonderful image, as always. Outstanding as a stand alone photo,
stronger yet
On 25 July 2011 21:56, frank theriault wrote:
Congrats to your daughter!
Wonderful set. The company can't help but be pleased with those!
cheers,
frank
Thanks Christine and Frank. Yes, the company was delighted with the album.
Chris
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Another one on Photo.net which will be added to my web page when I get home.
Not in the mood for a happy picture:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=13857412
K-5, DA*50-135@135mm, f/10, 1/60, ISO100
DagT
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On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:57 PM, frank theriault
knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net
wrote:
Excellent. Perhaps the best of the series IMO.
Such an good series it's hard to pick a best, but this would have to
be a strong
On 7/25/11 5:50, Anthony Farr wrote:
On 25 July 2011 12:39, John Sessomsjsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:
One thing that's disturbing me about all this is according to news reports
I've seen, the maximum sentence he can get is 21 years. He should at least
be locked up the rest of his life.
They
Amazing: From 1994 to 2004 the Norwegian police fired approximately
79 shots; 48 of these were fired during the Nokas Robbery in 2004.
(from the NOKAS article). Probably closer to the LAPD's weekly
throughput. Man, you Norwegians sure are fortunate.
2011/7/26 Toralf Lund tor...@toralf.net:
On
Perhaps, fortunate to a degree. But, I shudder to consider living in a
region where a monster like this could potentially be back on the same
streets that my kids inhabit in just 21 years. Even with the containment
period, I think that is a VERY low penalty to pay for what he has done. I
am
Certainly not, Frank. I take your asking as generous consideration.
Jack
--- On Mon, 7/25/11, frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
From: frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: PESO - Base Hit
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
Date: Monday, July 25, 2011,
How did I miss that?!?
Tanya Love
AIPP Accredited Professional Photographer
www.lovebytes.com.au
www.facebook.com/LoveBytesPhoto
www.loveandsoul.com.au
m: 0458 006 740
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On 25/07/2011 5:30 PM, Tanya Love wrote:
How did I miss that?!?
Norm?
--
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I would hope that the containment bit would only apply to regular
criminals whereas this guy who is quite obviously stark raving mad
would hopefully be locked away under a different law governing the
treatment of the dangerously mentally ill. Either way IMO someone who
murdered so many kids in
Back??
On 7/25/2011 19:42, William Robb wrote:
On 25/07/2011 5:30 PM, Tanya Love wrote:
How did I miss that?!?
Norm?
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I think that crop is a home run :-)
(somehow I missed this when it first came up... had to go
back..BACK..BACK... in my PDML folder to find the link - glad I did :-))
ann
On 7/23/2011 11:58, frank theriault wrote:
This is a re-do of the first pic of my recent Boys of Summer GESO:
On Jul 25, 2011, at 7:54 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
Back??
Probably hairy.
On 7/25/2011 19:42, William Robb wrote:
On 25/07/2011 5:30 PM, Tanya Love wrote:
How did I miss that?!?
Norm?
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You have a great eye.
Dave
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 5:18 PM, DagT li...@thrane.name wrote:
Another one on Photo.net which will be added to my web page when I get home.
Not in the mood for a happy picture:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=13857412
K-5, DA*50-135@135mm, f/10, 1/60,
Calling all car geeks
hint: not a recent model
http://annsan.smugmug.com/On-the-Road-or-On-Foot/New-York-Snaps-2011/15389206_z3saz/1/1400461602_HK3Mr45/Large
This time I know what it is
Obviously, I got my card reader back in operation yayayay
ann
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Nice capture and nice to read you got your reader working...
___
You can see my latest captures by visiting my Flickr page:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jt-johnson/
-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net
Intriguing. I like it.
Paul
On Jul 25, 2011, at 5:18 PM, DagT wrote:
Another one on Photo.net which will be added to my web page when I get home.
Not in the mood for a happy picture:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=13857412
K-5, DA*50-135@135mm, f/10, 1/60, ISO100
DagT
--
This one has me scratching my head. Based on the shape of the hood and the
mirror, i'd guess a 1960s Japanese car.
Paul
On Jul 25, 2011, at 8:34 PM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
Calling all car geeks
hint: not a recent model
When I saw it there was a guy of my vintage near by... we were both
admiring.. I guessed 1960 as the vintage... he said why don't you look
on the registration? I said I cant read it too small type.. so he told
me. 1960 was within 2 years. not Japanese. no more hints..
I'll post the full car
On 7/25/2011 20:51, Jeffery Johnson wrote:
Nice capture and nice to read you got your reader working...
Thanks and phew, so am I!
ann
___
You can see my latest captures by visiting my Flickr page:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jt-johnson/
See what happens when I do some work! Everything around here turns to utter
chaos!
-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Paul
Stenquist
Sent: Tuesday, 26 July 2011 9:58 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Norm's back?!
On
f25, 1/15th, ISO 160, DA* 60-250 @ 187 mm:
http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=13859112size=lg
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I concur.
-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
Eckehard Wegner
Sent: Tuesday, 26 July 2011 9:48 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: I'm ok
I would hope that the containment bit would only apply to regular criminals
whereas
On 7/25/2011 19:11, Tanya Love wrote:
Perhaps, fortunate to a degree. But, I shudder to consider living in a
region where a monster like this could potentially be back on the same
streets that my kids inhabit in just 21 years.
reading what everyone has written (below) about the laws there,
Unfortunately he's not stark raving mad, but he is delusional. People
can be delusional and still live normal lives, then they decided that
they can fly, without the benefit of wings, or spark a crusade by
personal example.
On 7/25/2011 7:48 PM, Eckehard Wegner wrote:
I would hope that the
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Norm Baugher
nbaug...@baugherphotography.com wrote:
Ni, ni, ni, ni!!!
Norm!
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On 2011-07-25 19:43 , Ann Sanfedele wrote:
The concept of punishment and Revenge are really repugnant to me -
[...]
ann the pacifist socialist
right on, Ann!
it's hard in a case like this because it is an extreme example and emotions run
high, but it is perhaps the best time to make such a
Revenge is repugnant. But punishment,which is essentially making one
responsible for one's actions, is necessary to maintain any semblance of a
civilized society. Nine years at the front of a secondary school classroom made
that abundantly clear.
Paul
On Jul 25, 2011, at 11:03 PM, steve
On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 09:03:20PM -0600, steve harley wrote:
On 2011-07-25 19:43 , Ann Sanfedele wrote:
The concept of punishment and Revenge are really repugnant to me -
[...]
ann the pacifist socialist
right on, Ann!
it's hard in a case like this because it is an extreme example and
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