From: Miserere
2009/7/31 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com:
From: P. J. Alling
The camera automatically does a dark frame hot pixel noise reduction on
long time duration images. ?The dark frame is produced right after the long
exposure for the same amount of time to approximate the hot
The K100, K10, and K20 (and I assume K-7) all have a special function
(each a different number) to turn Noise Reduction 'ON', but not
really off, just changing under what circumstances it is used. The K20
may be the exception, (and maybe the K-7) as it allows NR to be turned
OFF when
I did quick trials and it seems my K10D will not do DFS in B mode at
30 seconds exposure.
On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Joseph McAllisterpentax...@mac.com wrote:
The K100, K10, and K20 (and I assume K-7) all have a special function (each
a different number) to turn Noise Reduction 'ON', but
According to the K10 manual there's a noise reduction function with
the bulb setting. The manual doesn't tell you much beyond that, just
refers to the Custom Setting Menu.
All it says there is Sets whether to use Noise Reduction in slow speed
shooting and refers you back to the page for bulb
I discovered this when shooting my first night shots with my K100, and
again when shooting at night with my K10. It took at least as long to
'save' the image as it took to expose it in the first place. I found I
could turn the noise reduction off to save time in the field, but then
had to
2009/7/30 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de:
David Savage ozsav...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip]
It'll be tough enough to explain to my boyfriend that - for the second*
time in a few weeks - I'll be selling the camera I've begged to buy just
days ago. :-/
Ralf
Boyfriends suck.
Wives
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 10:17:10PM +0200, Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:
David Savage ozsav...@gmail.com wrote:
Frankly it's for this reason, and the lower noise (especially at
really long exposure times) that pushed me toward the D700.
Three guesses what I'd be doing if it weren't for all
From: P. J. Alling
The camera automatically does a dark frame hot pixel noise reduction on
long time duration images. The dark frame is produced right after the
long exposure for the same amount of time to approximate the hot pixels
that will light up from the heat build up from the sensor
2009/7/31 John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com:
From: P. J. Alling
The camera automatically does a dark frame hot pixel noise reduction on
long time duration images. The dark frame is produced right after the long
exposure for the same amount of time to approximate the hot pixels that will
The K-7 is reputed to do that. The K20, if I can believe the manual
will do that either whenever the camera thinks it's appropriate or every
time the exposure time is longer than 3/10 sec. my choice. I haven't
tried any really long exposures yet so I can't tell you for sure how bad
that is,
] On Behalf Of Matthew Hunt
[...@pobox.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:28 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: K-7 new firmware 1.01
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Desjardins, Stevedesjard...@wlu.edu wrote:
OK, but I bet the bokeh sucks on the Hale.
Yes, it's definitely
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:46 AM, John Francisjo...@panix.com wrote:
That makes the f-stop somewhere close to 3.3 by my calculation.
We have a winner.
That's for prime focus, where you just have the primary mirror in
the light path (plus some refractive corrective elements to improve
...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Matthew
Hunt
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:28 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: K-7 new firmware 1.01
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:46 AM, John Francisjo...@panix.com wrote:
That makes the f-stop somewhere close to 3.3 by my calculation.
We have a winner.
That's
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 09:20:22AM -0400, Desjardins, Steve scripsit:
Seriously, the more discussion we have about this the better the
chance Pentax will fix it. The number of people bothered by the long
exposure issue is going to be much smaller than the group that worries
about picking an
Graydon o...@uniserve.com wrote:
Is there any reason to think that it is technically possible to fix this
issue with the current (K-7) or previous (K20D) generation 14.6 MP
Samsung sensors?
This might be a öproblem for really long exposures.
At least they could let us shoot without DFS using
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 03:42:32PM +0200, Ralf R. Radermacher scripsit:
Graydon o...@uniserve.com wrote:
Is there any reason to think that it is technically possible to fix this
issue with the current (K-7) or previous (K20D) generation 14.6 MP
Samsung sensors?
This might be a problem
A thought just crossed my mind...
Is it possible to use the multi-exposure to bypass DFS, or does the
camera apply DFS between each part-exposure?
Jostein
2009/7/30 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de:
Graydon o...@uniserve.com wrote:
Is there any reason to think that it is technically
It is possible AFAIK but you have to know first how many exposure you
will need which isn't exactly a nice solution.
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 5:20 PM, AlunFotoalunf...@gmail.com wrote:
A thought just crossed my mind...
Is it possible to use the multi-exposure to bypass DFS, or does the
camera
Graydon o...@uniserve.com wrote:
Are you sure? I think I've seen auto-DFS with a 15s P mode exposure.
There may well be auto-DFS for all exposures above n seconds, where n is
around 12.
Whether the camera does a DFS or not depends on time and ISO. It doesn't
at 30 sec and ISO 100 in M. It
2009/7/30 Thibouille pentaxl...@gmail.com:
It is possible AFAIK but you have to know first how many exposure you
will need which isn't exactly a nice solution.
Thibs, I'm quite maths-challenged, but if you know how long you want
to keep the shutter open on the B setting, even I can work out how
AlunFoto alunf...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/7/30 Thibouille pentaxl...@gmail.com:
It is possible AFAIK but you have to know first how many exposure you
will need which isn't exactly a nice solution.
Thibs, I'm quite maths-challenged, but if you know how long you want
to keep the shutter open
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 06:05:25PM +0200, Ralf R. Radermacher scripsit:
Graydon o...@uniserve.com wrote:
Are you sure? I think I've seen auto-DFS with a 15s P mode
exposure. There may well be auto-DFS for all exposures above n
seconds, where n is around 12.
Whether the camera does a
Graydon o...@uniserve.com wrote:
I think that policy supports my B could be used to take a really awful
picture theory; at high ISO (= pushing the sensor) and long exposure (=
heat builds up), noise is a serious issue without DFS. So somebody at
Pentax has enforced DFS for B mode, because
It appears the K20 with V 1.03 of the firmware slow shutter speed noise
reduction gives you two options, 1. Auto, the camera decides when to
apply noise reduction; 2. On, noise reduction will be applied when the
shutter speed is 3/10 second. There does seem to be no off position.
Weather
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 06:37:37PM +0200, Ralf R. Radermacher scripsit:
I understand that the K20D does a DFS for everything longer than 6 sec
in any mode regardless of the ISO setting which again hints at serious
trouble with this Samsung CMOS sensor.
Everything is tradeoffs.
Presumably
Silly old me fotor...@gmx.de wrote:
No change, on the other hand, with the non-defeatable dark frame
subtraction in B mode...
Reports from people who've installed the new firmware suggest that
they've raised the threshold for darkframe subtraction in B mode to 30
secs. without any mention in
2009/7/31 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de:
Silly old me fotor...@gmx.de wrote:
No change, on the other hand, with the non-defeatable dark frame
subtraction in B mode...
Reports from people who've installed the new firmware suggest that
they've raised the threshold for darkframe
David Savage ozsav...@gmail.com wrote:
Frankly it's for this reason, and the lower noise (especially at
really long exposure times) that pushed me toward the D700.
Three guesses what I'd be doing if it weren't for all the lenses and
accessories that could only be sold and bought again for
Here
http://www.pentax.jp/english/support/digital/k-7_s.html
/ Changes to V1.01
* Added [Operate at AF point “SEL”] on [Custom] menu and it can be
selected either [1 Calling Function Preference] or [2 Select AF point
Preference].
When selected [2 Select AF point Preference] and AF point
Michel Carrère-Gée wrote:
Here
http://www.pentax.jp/english/support/digital/k-7_s.html
/ Changes to V1.01
* Added [Operate at AF point “SEL”] on [Custom] menu and it can be
selected either [1 Calling Function Preference] or [2 Select AF point
Preference].
When selected [2 Select AF point
Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote:
The AF point selection madness has been fixed as expected.
No change, on the other hand, with the non-defeatable dark frame
subtraction in B mode and no change either for this nonsense with the
illumination of the upper display.
I'm sorry to say
Excellent. I never did get used to the weirdness of losing control,
and once changed my white balance inadvertently while trying to
restore control of autofocus select.
Paul
On Jul 29, 2009, at 2:26 AM, Dario Bonazza wrote:
Michel Carrère-Gée wrote:
Here
I understand how this could be a problem for astrophotography, but do
you really need B mode for fireworks or thunderstorms?
Paul
On Jul 29, 2009, at 6:04 AM, Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:
Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote:
The AF point selection madness has been fixed as expected.
Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:
Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote:
The AF point selection madness has been fixed as expected.
No change, on the other hand, with the non-defeatable dark frame
subtraction in B mode
Is this a change from the K20D?
and no change either for this
Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:
Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote:
The AF point selection madness has been fixed as expected.
No change, on the other hand, with the non-defeatable dark frame
subtraction in B mode
Is this a change from the K20D?
and no change either for this
paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote:
I understand how this could be a problem for astrophotography, but do
you really need B mode for fireworks or thunderstorms?
Yes, absolutely. Because it's the only mode where you can expose as long
as you like and also stop the exposure at any
Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote:
Is this a change from the K20D?
I don't know. But it's one from the K10D and all other Pentax models
with CCD sensors. Go figure.
Ralf
--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG - Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio
2009/7/29 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de:
Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote:
The AF point selection madness has been fixed as expected.
No change, on the other hand, with the non-defeatable dark frame
subtraction in B mode and no change either for this nonsense with the
David J Brooks wrote:
2009/7/29 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de:
Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote:
The AF point selection madness has been fixed as expected.
No change, on the other hand, with the non-defeatable dark frame
subtraction in B mode and no change either for this
new firmware 1.01
David J Brooks wrote:
2009/7/29 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de:
Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote:
The AF point selection madness has been fixed as expected.
No change, on the other hand, with the non-defeatable dark frame
subtraction in B mode and no change
29, 2009 9:14 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: K-7 new firmware 1.01
David J Brooks wrote:
2009/7/29 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de:
Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote:
The AF point selection madness has been fixed as expected.
No change, on the other hand
Miserere miser...@gmail.com wrote:
If I purchase the K-7 I'll have to keep the K10D as my fireworks
camera. Maybe I'll call her my 4th of July Camera...
Same here. I was just cutting down on the number of cameras I'm hauling
around all the time.
Ralf
--
Ralf R. Radermacher - DL9KCG -
2009/7/29 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de:
I was just cutting down on the number of cameras I'm hauling
around all the time.
Mark!
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PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly
The camera automatically does a dark frame hot pixel noise reduction on
long time duration images. The dark frame is produced right after the
long exposure for the same amount of time to approximate the hot pixels
that will light up from the heat build up from the sensor being
continuously
Before buying a K20D I knew about this; and that's how I justified to
myself keeping the K10D...
2009/7/29 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de:
Miserere miser...@gmail.com wrote:
If I purchase the K-7 I'll have to keep the K10D as my fireworks
camera. Maybe I'll call her my 4th of July
but this was the first I've
heard of the DFS.
-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Michel
Carrère-Gée
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 2:09 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: K-7 new firmware 1.01
Here
http://www.pentax.jp/english/support
Fernando fer.p...@gmail.com wrote:
Before buying a K20D I knew about this; and that's how I justified to
myself keeping the K10D...
I didn't know this before I bought the K-7 and I must say it had never
occurred to me that someone might come up with something *that* idiotic.
Ralf
--
Ralf R.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 09:33:43PM +0200, Ralf R. Radermacher scripsit:
Fernando fer.p...@gmail.com wrote:
Before buying a K20D I knew about this; and that's how I justified to
myself keeping the K10D...
I didn't know this before I bought the K-7 and I must say it had never
occurred to me
Desjardins, Steve desjard...@wlu.edu wrote:
Honestly, I had heard all sorts of complaints about the
focus point but this was the first I've heard of the DFS.
I discovered too late (i.e. after I bought my K-7) that this had been
discussed in a number of forums, e.g.:
Graydon o...@uniserve.com wrote:
I strongly suspect that long exposures are junk without it.
My suspicion as well. Could it be that this Samsung sensor is so rotten
that they just can't afford to let us see the terrible unmasked truth?
I mean, it would fit in nicely with the general noise
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 09:48:14PM +0200, Ralf R. Radermacher scripsit:
Graydon o...@uniserve.com wrote:
I strongly suspect that long exposures are junk without it.
My suspicion as well. Could it be that this Samsung sensor is so rotten
that they just can't afford to let us see the terrible
Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:
Desjardins, Steve desjard...@wlu.edu wrote:
Honestly, I had heard all sorts of complaints about the
focus point but this was the first I've heard of the DFS.
I discovered too late (i.e. after I bought my K-7) that this had been
discussed in a number of forums,
- Original Message -
From: Ralf R. Radermacher
Subject: Re: K-7 new firmware 1.01
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/66277-k7-long-
exposures.html
As usual, the astro- and nightscape shooters who pointed this out were
treated as a bunch of odd freaks
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 4:21 PM, William Robbwar...@gmail.com wrote:
As an aside, can a person do DFS after the fact by running a long exposure
with the cap on and then inverting it and dropping it onto a long exposure
picture?
Yes, more or less. I'm not sure about the inverting it and
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 02:21:21PM -0600, William Robb scripsit:
As an aside, can a person do DFS after the fact by running a long
exposure with the cap on and then inverting it and dropping it onto a
long exposure picture?
You could, but the likelihood of the dark frame matching the thermal
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 04:35:59PM -0400, Matthew Hunt scripsit:
This is standard practice in astrophotography. It gives both better
results (from a signal-to-noise perspective), and wastes less time,
than the in-camera subtraction of a single dark frame. That's what's
so horrible about
William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote:
As an aside, can a person do DFS after the fact by running a long exposure
with the cap on and then inverting it and dropping it onto a long exposure
picture?
I understand the astro people do something like this. Unfortunately
there aren't any around, for
Doug Brewer d...@alphoto.com wrote:
I don't do much nightscape photography, but I'd be interested in your
impressions from doing so with the different cameras...
My K10D has just returned from a longer stay with the freshly outsourced
German Pentax service and I'm planning to do just that next
2009/7/29 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de:
I understand the astro people do something like this. Unfortunately
there aren't any around, for obvious reasons.
Just for the record, I do have a Ph.D. in astrophysics, with
experience characterizing the performance of a then-new 48 megapixel
Matthew Hunt m...@pobox.com wrote:
Just for the record, I do have a Ph.D. in astrophysics, with
experience characterizing the performance of a then-new 48 megapixel
mosaic CCD camera for the 200-inch Hale Telescope at Palomar
Observatory, and adapting an image-processing pipeline for images
OK, but I bet the bokeh sucks on the Hale.
Steve Desjardins
On Jul 29, 2009, at 5:05 PM, Matthew Hunt m...@pobox.com wrote:
2009/7/29 Ralf R. Radermacher fotor...@gmx.de:
I understand the astro people do something like this. Unfortunately
there aren't any around, for obvious reasons.
Just
William Robb wrote:
As an aside, can a person do DFS after the fact by running a long exposure
with the cap on and then inverting it and dropping it onto a long exposure
picture?
Possibly. But I expect DFS is accomplished more effectively if it's
done before de-mosaicing of the Bayer pattern.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Desjardins, Stevedesjard...@wlu.edu wrote:
OK, but I bet the bokeh sucks on the Hale.
Yes, it's definitely donut bokeh, complete with obstructions from
the secondary supports. Furthermore, given its age, the mirror figure
is maintained by a mechanical system of
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 04:57:19PM -0400, Matthew Hunt scripsit:
I do, however, admit to minimal experience concerning night
photography with DSLRs. I find their lack of cryogens... disturbing.
Mark!
-- Graydon
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PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
PDML@pdml.net
Matthew Hunt wrote:
I find their lack of cryogens... disturbing.
Don't we all, brother, don't we all. :-)
--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)
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...@pdml.net [pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Matthew Hunt
[...@pobox.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:28 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: K-7 new firmware 1.01
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Desjardins, Stevedesjard...@wlu.edu wrote:
OK, but I bet the bokeh sucks on the Hale.
Yes
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