Re: My K1

[Ken Waller]

Oy vey !


-Original Message-
>From: Paul Stenquist 
>Subject: Re: My K1
>
>My K1 is observing the Jewish holidays
>
>Paul via phone
>
>
>
>Paul via phone
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Bill  wrote:
>> 
>> Apparently was shipped from Mississauga yesterday. There is a remote 
>> possibility of it showing up tomorrow, otherwise Monday or Tuesday next week.
>> I hate waiting.



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Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[Igor PDML-StR]

Godfrey:
That's a wonderfully formulated description. I wish I've seen it laid out 
this clearly many years ago, instead of collecting bits and pieces 
from various sources.



BTW, for the benefit of Mark and others interested in the question: here 
is a nice illustration of various color gamuts in relation to the 
CMYK gamut. It illustrates the "hierarchy" of the gamuts:

https://goo.gl/UJkgIr .
Roughly, one can assume that the maximum color gamut of a photo printer
does not exceed CMYK, but the particular paper (and ink-set) can make it 
yet smaller.



Mark,

To clarify what I meant: When you calibrate a monitor, you create a 
monitor profile and the OS uses it to set the monitor accordingly.

That assures that the color with a particular combination of parameters
is presented according to the accepted "standard".

At the same time, programs should use that profile to know how to 
interpret the images they are working with for correct presentation on the 
monitor. I.e., a program should know what should be the output colorspace
to peform the correct translation from whatever colorspace used to store 
the image.
Some software does not consult the current profile, just assuming that the 
monitor is using SRGB colorspace.

In that case, if you force the monitor itself (internally) to imitate
SRGB colorspace, then the image would look "close enough".
That'sin a way bringing the mountain to Muhammad. ;-)

At least, that's how it works on Windows (or my interpretation of it).

Cheers,

Igor



 Mark C Thu, 28 Apr 2016 16:20:15 -0700 wrote:


From what I've been able to tell, monitors work within their native color 
space, which may or may not correspond to sRGB or AdobeRGB or whatever. So 
a monitor that is 78% of sRGB is just that - its native color space 
coincides with 78% of the sRGB space. Some monitors can emulate certain 
standard color spaces. I think this is what Igor was referring to when he 
mentioned that some software assumes that the monitor is sRGB and can 
produce off results when a wide gamut montior is actually used. But the 
color space used by the monitor is not necessary a standard space, hence 
the need to use the manufacture's profile, or calibrate with a 
colorimeter.



Mark

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Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:19 PM, Mark C  wrote:
> 
> - Its not much of a hassle to work in Adobe RGB. Just convert to SRGB before 
> saving for screen devices. … 

It's not a 'hassle' to work with Adobe RGB. Any editing is a lossy process, 
with Adobe RGB you lose less than you lose with sRGB, with ProPhoto RGB you 
lose less than with either. It only makes sense to do your *editing* in the 
greatest bit depth and largest color space you can use, and convert/downscale 
color space and bit depth for output products. 

> - When it comes to printing - I may be wrong on this but I don't think that 
> the Epson printer I use is either an sRGB or Adobe RGB device. Basically 
> there is a native color space for each type of paper and a corresponding 
> color profile.  … The color space isn't sRGB or Adobe RGB, it's "Premium 
> Glossy" or "Enhanced Matte" or whatever... The color spaces for the different 
> types of papers can be fairly constrained (in the case of matte papers 
> particularly) or broad. It makes sense to use a wider gamut like Adobe RGB in 
> source files for printing and let the print process convert colors that are 
> outside the destination gamut if needed. Epson i s continually increasing the 
> gamut of their inks and papers, so it seems best to preserve as much color 
> info in the source file as possible, in case you want to print it in the 
> future.

Printers don't have a color space per se. They have gamut (the range of colors 
they can produce) and Dmax (the maximum density they can produce). Both of 
those are the combined characteristics of the printer's mechanisms, ink, and 
paper used. An output calibration profile maps the colors represented on screen 
in your image into the printer/ink/paper's Dmax and gamut. 

Most higher-end printers these days do a pretty good job of covering the 
standard sRGB colorspace. Adobe RGB, as I mentioned in another post, was 
designed to emulate (or encompass, probably a more precise word in this 
context) the gamut and density of a late 1990s CMYK web press, which is both 
slightly larger in gamut and differently weighted from an RGB display. 

> - Printing via services - for low end services (drug stores, big box stores) 
> converting to srgb makes sense. Its a safe harbor - sRGB is the least common 
> denominator so odds are any printer can handle it. If you are paying any kind 
> of premium or working with a lab that holds itself out as having any kind of 
> professional status, they should be using a color managed process and should 
> be able to work with the profile embedded in your image.

Consumer print services generally presume sRGB or untagged images, so you're 
safe with that. 

Good print services (high-end, pro, whatever) provide instructions and/or 
output profiles to optimize your image files for their printing process. Or 
they'll tell you whether they want 8- or 16-bit, and sRGB or Adobe RGB to print 
from. 

> From what I've been able to tell, monitors work within their native color 
> space, which may or may not correspond to sRGB or AdobeRGB or whatever. So a 
> monitor that is 78% of sRGB is just that - its native color space coincides 
> with 78% of the sRGB space. Some monitors can emulate certain standard color 
> spaces. I think this is what Igor was referring to when he mentioned that 
> some software assumes that the monitor is sRGB and can produce off results 
> when a wide gamut montior is actually used. But the color space used by the 
> monitor is not necessary a standard space, hence the need to use the 
> manufacture's profile, or calibrate with a colorimeter.

As I said earlier, sRGB color space was designed to *model* the native 
characteristics of a high quality CRT. Obviously, not all displays are 100% 
sRGB calibrated (or capable) as delivered. All displays, standard and wide 
gamut included, benefit from calibration and profiling for the purposes of 
being a reference display for editing. A good display profile is most 
definitely NOT sRGB or Adobe RGB … It's a device dependent color calibration 
profile based on the specific hardware characteristics of the display and the 
graphics adapter used to drive its display. 

Today's high-end modern displays have a built-in colorimeter and automated 
calibration and profiling hardware and software. 

sRGB, Adobe RGB, and ProPhoto RGB are device-agnostic color space standards 
created to enable a standardized transformation of image rendering from one 
machine to another, one display to another, enabling you to move files from 
machine to machine and get the same rendered result. Rendering software that 
honors color management takes the data from the image file, color space tagged, 
and transforms it through the La*b* domain using the display CCP on your system 
to show it to you. It similarly takes the data from your rendered image and 
transforms it through the La*b* domain using the output printer calibration 
profile to produce a high 

Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[Paul Stenquist]

The Epson printers give you the option of letting Photoshop control color, and 
they work well printing from Prophoto 16 bit files. The paper profiles allow 
the printer to translate those parameters to the paper you're using. I don't 
understand all the tech. But I can get an exact copy of what appears on my 
Retina 5k monitor when printing 16 bit Prophoto to Epson Ultra Premium Luster 
paper, using the appropriate ICC paper profile.

Paul via phone

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 7:19 PM, Mark C  wrote:
> 
> A few reactions to the quoted post -
> 
> - Its not much of a hassle to work in Adobe RGB. Just convert to SRGB before 
> saving for screen devices. I just use a Photoshop action that resizes, 
> converts the color space, flattens layers, drops the image from 16 bits to 8 
> bit and saves as a jpg. I've been using Adobe RGB for core files since I 
> first stated with Photoshop 5.
> 
> - When it comes to printing - I may be wrong on this but I don't think that 
> the Epson printer I use is either an sRGB or Adobe RGB device. Basically 
> there is a native color space for each type of paper and a corresponding 
> color profile. The color space isn't sRGB or Adobe RGB, it's "Premium Glossy" 
> or "Enhanced Matte" or whatever... The color spaces for the different types 
> of papers can be fairly constrained (in the case of matte papers 
> particularly) or broad. It makes sense to use a wider gamut like Adobe RGB in 
> source files for printing and let the print process convert colors that are 
> outside the destination gamut if needed. Epson i s continually increasing the 
> gamut of their inks and papers, so it seems best to preserve as much color 
> info in the source file as possible, in case you want to print it in the 
> future.
> 
> - Printing via services - for low end services (drug stores, big box stores) 
> converting to srgb makes sense. Its a safe harbor - sRGB is the least common 
> denominator so odds are any printer can handle it. If you are paying any kind 
> of premium or working with a lab that holds itself out as having any kind of 
> professional status, they should be using a color managed process and should 
> be able to work with the profile embedded in your image.
> 
> From what I've been able to tell, monitors work within their native color 
> space, which may or may not correspond to sRGB or AdobeRGB or whatever. So a 
> monitor that is 78% of sRGB is just that - its native color space coincides 
> with 78% of the sRGB space. Some monitors can emulate certain standard color 
> spaces. I think this is what Igor was referring to when he mentioned that 
> some software assumes that the monitor is sRGB and can produce off results 
> when a wide gamut montior is actually used. But the color space used by the 
> monitor is not necessary a standard space, hence the need to use the 
> manufacture's profile, or calibrate with a colorimeter.
> 
> Mark
> 
>> On 4/28/2016 1:04 PM, Darren Addy wrote:
>> I'm no expert on this stuff, but it seems to me that Adobe RGB is
>> specifically for printing and THEN only if the printer can handle it
>> and is ALSO calibrated to match your calibrated monitor.
>> 
>> In research I found this post, which seemed to make a lot of sense to me:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Flat out - if you're mostly displaying your work on the web, use sRGB.
>> 
>> Read this article: https://fstoppers.com/pictures/adobergb-vs-srgb-3167
>> 
>> Your goal should be to work in the same color space that your target
>> audience will be seeing. For 99% of computer monitors, that means
>> SRGB. Doesn't matter if you personally have a wide-gamut monitor, most
>> people don't.
>> 
>> If you work in anything else, you are just creating extra hassle for
>> yourself because you won't know how the image will look to the rest of
>> the world. You'll have to just edit it again for the people stuck in
>> the sRGB color space.
>> 
>> You can create the photo with a non-sRGB color space and let the web
>> automatically convert/interpret the colors to sRGB. But if you let the
>> web do that conversion, it will not do a great job, some colors will
>> look off or desaturated... whereas your own conversion will be exactly
>> what you want.
>> 
>> If you shoot raw, there is no color space assigned (yet). If you then
>> import the raw into lightroom, lightroom is actually temporarily
>> working in their version of the ProPhoto RGB color space,
>> (http://digital-photography-school.com/everything-need-know-lightroom-colour-space/)
>> which has the biggest gamut of color. Then when you're done playing
>> with the various sliders and you like how it looks on the screen, you
>> can export to sRGB, AdobeRGB, or ProPhoto. Lightroom will convert the
>> colors to the chosen profile, not just assign the profile blindly, and
>> it will do a good job of it.
>> 
>> AdobeRGB is specifically for printing (since most devices with screens
>> cannot display it) and even then, many printers can't handle it either
>> 

Re: My K1

[Bill]

On 4/28/2016 4:48 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

My K1 is observing the Jewish holidays


I bet its sitting in a box, pining for the Fords.



Paul via phone



Paul via phone

On Apr 28, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Bill  wrote:

Apparently was shipped from Mississauga yesterday. There is a remote 
possibility of it showing up tomorrow, otherwise Monday or Tuesday next week.
I hate waiting.

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Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[Mark C]

A few reactions to the quoted post -

- Its not much of a hassle to work in Adobe RGB. Just convert to SRGB 
before saving for screen devices. I just use a Photoshop action that 
resizes, converts the color space, flattens layers, drops the image from 
16 bits to 8 bit and saves as a jpg. I've been using Adobe RGB for core 
files since I first stated with Photoshop 5.


- When it comes to printing - I may be wrong on this but I don't think 
that the Epson printer I use is either an sRGB or Adobe RGB device. 
Basically there is a native color space for each type of paper and a 
corresponding color profile. The color space isn't sRGB or Adobe RGB, 
it's "Premium Glossy" or "Enhanced Matte" or whatever... The color 
spaces for the different types of papers can be fairly constrained (in 
the case of matte papers particularly) or broad. It makes sense to use a 
wider gamut like Adobe RGB in source files for printing and let the 
print process convert colors that are outside the destination gamut if 
needed. Epson i s continually increasing the gamut of their inks and 
papers, so it seems best to preserve as much color info in the source 
file as possible, in case you want to print it in the future.


- Printing via services - for low end services (drug stores, big box 
stores) converting to srgb makes sense. Its a safe harbor - sRGB is the 
least common denominator so odds are any printer can handle it. If you 
are paying any kind of premium or working with a lab that holds itself 
out as having any kind of professional status, they should be using a 
color managed process and should be able to work with the profile 
embedded in your image.


From what I've been able to tell, monitors work within their native 
color space, which may or may not correspond to sRGB or AdobeRGB or 
whatever. So a monitor that is 78% of sRGB is just that - its native 
color space coincides with 78% of the sRGB space. Some monitors can 
emulate certain standard color spaces. I think this is what Igor was 
referring to when he mentioned that some software assumes that the 
monitor is sRGB and can produce off results when a wide gamut montior is 
actually used. But the color space used by the monitor is not necessary 
a standard space, hence the need to use the manufacture's profile, or 
calibrate with a colorimeter.


Mark

On 4/28/2016 1:04 PM, Darren Addy wrote:

I'm no expert on this stuff, but it seems to me that Adobe RGB is
specifically for printing and THEN only if the printer can handle it
and is ALSO calibrated to match your calibrated monitor.

In research I found this post, which seemed to make a lot of sense to me:



Flat out - if you're mostly displaying your work on the web, use sRGB.

Read this article: https://fstoppers.com/pictures/adobergb-vs-srgb-3167

Your goal should be to work in the same color space that your target
audience will be seeing. For 99% of computer monitors, that means
SRGB. Doesn't matter if you personally have a wide-gamut monitor, most
people don't.

If you work in anything else, you are just creating extra hassle for
yourself because you won't know how the image will look to the rest of
the world. You'll have to just edit it again for the people stuck in
the sRGB color space.

You can create the photo with a non-sRGB color space and let the web
automatically convert/interpret the colors to sRGB. But if you let the
web do that conversion, it will not do a great job, some colors will
look off or desaturated... whereas your own conversion will be exactly
what you want.

If you shoot raw, there is no color space assigned (yet). If you then
import the raw into lightroom, lightroom is actually temporarily
working in their version of the ProPhoto RGB color space,
(http://digital-photography-school.com/everything-need-know-lightroom-colour-space/)
which has the biggest gamut of color. Then when you're done playing
with the various sliders and you like how it looks on the screen, you
can export to sRGB, AdobeRGB, or ProPhoto. Lightroom will convert the
colors to the chosen profile, not just assign the profile blindly, and
it will do a good job of it.

AdobeRGB is specifically for printing (since most devices with screens
cannot display it) and even then, many printers can't handle it either
and are working in sRGB. So unless you want to risk paying money for a
nice print and then it comes out with wacky colors, stick to sRGB.

You can of course work in AdobeRGB for your own personal wallpaper, or
make specialized versions of some images for other people with
wide-gamut monitors.






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Re: My K1

[Paul Stenquist]

My K1 is observing the Jewish holidays

Paul via phone



Paul via phone
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Bill  wrote:
> 
> Apparently was shipped from Mississauga yesterday. There is a remote 
> possibility of it showing up tomorrow, otherwise Monday or Tuesday next week.
> I hate waiting.
> 
> -- 
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My K1

[Bill]

Apparently was shipped from Mississauga yesterday. There is a remote 
possibility of it showing up tomorrow, otherwise Monday or Tuesday next 
week.

I hate waiting.

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Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[Paul Stenquist]

Good stuff, pretty much what I do, which is no surprise since Godfrey taught me 
color management and workflow many years ago. My only difference is that I save 
almost all files as 16-bit Prophoto. Storage is cheap.

Paul via phone

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:14 PM, Mark C  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for this Godfrey.
> 
>> On 4/28/2016 2:40 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
>> - sRGB was designed to model the better computer displays of the 1990s.
>> 
>> - AdobeRGB (1998) was designed to model the color-offset printing equipment 
>> available in that same time period.
>> 
>> - ProPhoto RGB was designed in the early 2000s to model the maximum color 
>> space achievable with a 16-bit per component digital sensor.
>> 
>> With that in mind:
>> 
>> - Calibrate and profile your system's display to allow it to be used as a 
>> reference when adjusting your photographs, and to promote accurate 
>> translations to other displays and printer needs.
>> 
>> - Use ProPhoto RGB to edit images in 16-bit depth In order to minimize 
>> round-off errors in editing.
>> 
>> - Convert images to AdobeRGB or sRGB before converting to 8-bit since both 
>> of these color spaces can be fully represented in 8bit numbers.
>> 
>> - Use AdobeRGB when a client or a print service requires it on your 
>> outputted image files.
>> 
>> - Use sRGB for any other photo sharing on computers.
>> 
>> - Allow your image processing software and a fully color-managed printing 
>> workflow to take your images directly from their final, edited, 16-bit 
>> ProPhoto RGB form to whatever your printer requires for best printing 
>> fidelity. The goal should be as perfect a match on paper to what you see on 
>> screen in the editing environment. This applies to standard and wide gamut 
>> displays alike.
>> 
>> G
> 
> 
> 
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Re: OOF rendering in focus stacks

[John]

Getting better. Got rid of that abrupt line.

The background corns are still a bit too much out of focus for my taste.


On 4/28/2016 1:49 PM, Jostein wrote:


Had another go at stacking today, and followed the simplest possible
variation of the suggestions from the List. One extra exposure at f/22
at the far end of the focus stack. Looks like an improvement to me. :-)

http://www.alunfoto.no/sider/peso/

Thanks again!

Jostein



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Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

[Jack Davis]

Thanks, Larry!

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 2:58 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Jack Davis wrote:
>> 
>> Not sure if this has been a Peso in the past, but if so, please forgive.
>> Thought of it for the May PUG, but made another choice.
>> 
>> Comments appreciated.
> 
> Very nice.
> 
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> J
>> 
>> (Fuji 100 print film-red/orange toned filter. LX/A70-210, I believe)
>> 
>> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1053
> 
> -- 
> Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc
> 
> 
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Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

[Larry Colen]

Jack Davis wrote:


Not sure if this has been a Peso in the past, but if so, please forgive.
Thought of it for the May PUG, but made another choice.

Comments appreciated.


Very nice.



Thanks!

J

(Fuji 100 print film-red/orange toned filter. LX/A70-210, I believe)

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1053



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Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

[Jack Davis]

So appreciated, Cotty! Thanks!

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 12:12 PM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 28/4/16, Jack Davis, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> 
>> (Fuji 100 print film-red/orange toned filter. LX/A70-210, I believe)
>> 
>> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1053
> 
> Just. Wow.
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
> 
> 
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> ||  (O)  |Web Video Production
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> 
> 
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Film stuff sale

[Collin B]

If anyone is interested, Midwest has a Pentax-A 645 120/4 macro on sale for
$149.
Lots of other film stuff as well.
I guess they decided that it's time to dump it all.


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Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[Mark C]

Thanks for this Godfrey.

On 4/28/2016 2:40 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

- sRGB was designed to model the better computer displays of the 1990s.

- AdobeRGB (1998) was designed to model the color-offset printing equipment 
available in that same time period.

- ProPhoto RGB was designed in the early 2000s to model the maximum color space 
achievable with a 16-bit per component digital sensor.

With that in mind:

- Calibrate and profile your system's display to allow it to be used as a 
reference when adjusting your photographs, and to promote accurate translations 
to other displays and printer needs.

- Use ProPhoto RGB to edit images in 16-bit depth In order to minimize 
round-off errors in editing.

- Convert images to AdobeRGB or sRGB before converting to 8-bit since both of 
these color spaces can be fully represented in 8bit numbers.

- Use AdobeRGB when a client or a print service requires it on your outputted 
image files.

- Use sRGB for any other photo sharing on computers.

- Allow your image processing software and a fully color-managed printing 
workflow to take your images directly from their final, edited, 16-bit ProPhoto 
RGB form to whatever your printer requires for best printing fidelity. The goal 
should be as perfect a match on paper to what you see on screen in the editing 
environment. This applies to standard and wide gamut displays alike.

G




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Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

[Steve Cottrell]

On 28/4/16, Jack Davis, discombobulated, unleashed:

>
>(Fuji 100 print film-red/orange toned filter. LX/A70-210, I believe)
>
>http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1053

Just. Wow.

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  Cotty


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Re: PESO - A few grains of pepper

[Steve Cottrell]

On 28/4/16, Jostein Øksne, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Cotty is obviously not familiar with Tatsuya Tanaka's photography. :-) 
>
>https://www.instagram.com/tanaka_tatsuya/

I have seen bits on occasion. Amazing stuff!

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Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[Mark Roberts]

Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:

>- sRGB was designed to model the better computer displays of the 1990s. 
>
>- AdobeRGB (1998) was designed to model the color-offset printing equipment 
>available in that same time period. 
>
>- ProPhoto RGB was designed in the early 2000s to model the maximum color 
>space achievable with a 16-bit per component digital sensor. 
>
>With that in mind: 
>
>- Calibrate and profile your system's display to allow it to be used as a 
>reference when adjusting your photographs, and to promote accurate 
>translations to other displays and printer needs.
>
>- Use ProPhoto RGB to edit images in 16-bit depth In order to minimize 
>round-off errors in editing. 
>
>- Convert images to AdobeRGB or sRGB before converting to 8-bit since both of 
>these color spaces can be fully represented in 8bit numbers. 
>
>- Use AdobeRGB when a client or a print service requires it on your outputted 
>image files. 
>
>- Use sRGB for any other photo sharing on computers. 
>
>- Allow your image processing software and a fully color-managed printing 
>workflow to take your images directly from their final, edited, 16-bit 
>ProPhoto RGB form to whatever your printer requires for best printing 
>fidelity. The goal should be as perfect a match on paper to what you see on 
>screen in the editing environment. This applies to standard and wide gamut 
>displays alike. 

Final step:
- Print out Godfrey's post and pin it on the wall next to your
computer.

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Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

- sRGB was designed to model the better computer displays of the 1990s. 

- AdobeRGB (1998) was designed to model the color-offset printing equipment 
available in that same time period. 

- ProPhoto RGB was designed in the early 2000s to model the maximum color space 
achievable with a 16-bit per component digital sensor. 

With that in mind: 

- Calibrate and profile your system's display to allow it to be used as a 
reference when adjusting your photographs, and to promote accurate translations 
to other displays and printer needs.

- Use ProPhoto RGB to edit images in 16-bit depth In order to minimize 
round-off errors in editing. 

- Convert images to AdobeRGB or sRGB before converting to 8-bit since both of 
these color spaces can be fully represented in 8bit numbers. 

- Use AdobeRGB when a client or a print service requires it on your outputted 
image files. 

- Use sRGB for any other photo sharing on computers. 

- Allow your image processing software and a fully color-managed printing 
workflow to take your images directly from their final, edited, 16-bit ProPhoto 
RGB form to whatever your printer requires for best printing fidelity. The goal 
should be as perfect a match on paper to what you see on screen in the editing 
environment. This applies to standard and wide gamut displays alike. 

G
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Re: OOF rendering in focus stacks

[Jack Davis]

That would do it for me!

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> 
> You might think this is funny, but it's snot.
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Mark Roberts wrote:
>>> 
>>> Bruce Walker  wrote:
>>> 
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Jostein  wrote:
> 
> Had another go at stacking today, and followed the simplest possible
> variation of the suggestions from the List. One extra exposure at f/22
> at
> the far end of the focus stack. Looks like an improvement to me. :-)
> 
> http://www.alunfoto.no/sider/peso/
 Well now. The difference is nothing to sneeze at.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Oh great. This thread is going to be peppered with puns now.
>> 
>> 
>> I appreciate your attempt to spice things up to keep the boredom at bay, but
>> this thyme you don't have the proper focus and are out of your depth.  Maybe
>> somebody should check your basil heart rate.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> ― Yann Arthus-Bertrand, Earth from Above
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Re: OOF rendering in focus stacks

[Larry Colen]

Jostein wrote:


Had another go at stacking today, and followed the simplest possible
variation of the suggestions from the List. One extra exposure at f/22
at the far end of the focus stack. Looks like an improvement to me. :-)

http://www.alunfoto.no/sider/peso/


Puns aside, it does work a lot better.



Thanks again!

Jostein



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Re: OOF rendering in focus stacks

[steve harley]

On 2016-04-28 11:49 , Jostein wrote:


Had another go at stacking today, and followed the simplest possible
variation of the suggestions from the List. One extra exposure at f/22 at
the far end of the focus stack. Looks like an improvement to me. :-)

http://www.alunfoto.no/sider/peso/


the transition is much more natural, however for this particular image (and 
your earlier version) i like the more blurry background corns




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Re: OOF rendering in focus stacks

[Mark C]

I think that looks really good! Nothing to sneeze at, for sure.

Mark


On 4/28/2016 1:49 PM, Jostein wrote:


Had another go at stacking today, and followed the simplest possible 
variation of the suggestions from the List. One extra exposure at f/22 
at the far end of the focus stack. Looks like an improvement to me. :-)


http://www.alunfoto.no/sider/peso/

Thanks again!

Jostein




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Re: OOF rendering in focus stacks

[Darren Addy]

You might think this is funny, but it's snot.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:03 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>
>
> Mark Roberts wrote:
>>
>> Bruce Walker  wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Jostein  wrote:

 Had another go at stacking today, and followed the simplest possible
 variation of the suggestions from the List. One extra exposure at f/22
 at
 the far end of the focus stack. Looks like an improvement to me. :-)

 http://www.alunfoto.no/sider/peso/

>>> Well now. The difference is nothing to sneeze at.
>>
>>
>> Oh great. This thread is going to be peppered with puns now.
>
>
> I appreciate your attempt to spice things up to keep the boredom at bay, but
> this thyme you don't have the proper focus and are out of your depth.  Maybe
> somebody should check your basil heart rate.
>
>
>>
>
> --
> Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc
>
>
>
> --
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Re: OOF rendering in focus stacks

[Larry Colen]

Mark Roberts wrote:

Bruce Walker  wrote:


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Jostein  wrote:

Had another go at stacking today, and followed the simplest possible
variation of the suggestions from the List. One extra exposure at f/22 at
the far end of the focus stack. Looks like an improvement to me. :-)

http://www.alunfoto.no/sider/peso/


Well now. The difference is nothing to sneeze at.


Oh great. This thread is going to be peppered with puns now.


I appreciate your attempt to spice things up to keep the boredom at bay, 
but this thyme you don't have the proper focus and are out of your 
depth.  Maybe somebody should check your basil heart rate.







--
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Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[steve harley]

On 2016-04-28 11:04 , Darren Addy wrote:

Flat out - if you're mostly displaying your work on the web, use sRGB.

Read this article: https://fstoppers.com/pictures/adobergb-vs-srgb-3167

Your goal should be to work in the same color space that your target
audience will be seeing. For 99% of computer monitors, that means
SRGB. Doesn't matter if you personally have a wide-gamut monitor, most
people don't.


one thing i'd note is that if you have a wide audience "computer monitor" 
should be broadened to include mobile devices; current iPhones and iPads 
have pretty much exactly sRGB gamut; iPad Pro meets DCI-P3, an up-and-coming 
display standard that extends sRGB about halfway to the extra greens and 
blues of Adobe RGB


some Android devices are also wide-gamut, and there are wider-gamut 
standards and displays on the horizon, so i think if you are buying a 
display for photo editing to last you a few years, it's worth going beyond 
sRGB in capability


[also from the linked article]

You can create the photo with a non-sRGB color space and let the web
automatically convert/interpret the colors to sRGB. But if you let the
web do that conversion, it will not do a great job, some colors will
look off or desaturated... whereas your own conversion will be exactly
what you want.


and unfortunately you'll want to consider reconverting in a couple of years 
when the consumer display space has moved forward


it's also worth pointing out that for web images it's the browser or the OS, 
not the web, that does the conversion



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Re: OOF rendering in focus stacks

[Mark Roberts]

Bruce Walker  wrote:

>On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Jostein  wrote:
>>
>> Had another go at stacking today, and followed the simplest possible
>> variation of the suggestions from the List. One extra exposure at f/22 at
>> the far end of the focus stack. Looks like an improvement to me. :-)
>>
>> http://www.alunfoto.no/sider/peso/
>>
>Well now. The difference is nothing to sneeze at.

Oh great. This thread is going to be peppered with puns now.

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Re: OOF rendering in focus stacks

[Bruce Walker]

Well now. The difference is nothing to sneeze at.


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Jostein  wrote:
>
> Had another go at stacking today, and followed the simplest possible
> variation of the suggestions from the List. One extra exposure at f/22 at
> the far end of the focus stack. Looks like an improvement to me. :-)
>
> http://www.alunfoto.no/sider/peso/
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Jostein
>
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Re: OOF rendering in focus stacks

[Bulent Celasun]

Definitely better.

Bulent
-
http://patoloji.gen.tr
http://celasun.wordpress.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc_the_path/
http://photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=2226822
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/bulentcelasun


2016-04-28 20:49 GMT+03:00 Jostein :
>
> Had another go at stacking today, and followed the simplest possible
> variation of the suggestions from the List. One extra exposure at f/22 at
> the far end of the focus stack. Looks like an improvement to me. :-)
>
> http://www.alunfoto.no/sider/peso/
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Jostein
>
> --
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OOF rendering in focus stacks

[Jostein]

Had another go at stacking today, and followed the simplest possible 
variation of the suggestions from the List. One extra exposure at f/22 
at the far end of the focus stack. Looks like an improvement to me. :-)


http://www.alunfoto.no/sider/peso/

Thanks again!

Jostein

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Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[Rick Womer]

I'm gonna hafta experiment with this...
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> I'm no expert on this stuff, but it seems to me that Adobe RGB is
> specifically for printing and THEN only if the printer can handle it
> and is ALSO calibrated to match your calibrated monitor.
>
> In research I found this post, which seemed to make a lot of sense to me:
>
> 
>
> Flat out - if you're mostly displaying your work on the web, use sRGB.
>
> Read this article: https://fstoppers.com/pictures/adobergb-vs-srgb-3167
>
> Your goal should be to work in the same color space that your target
> audience will be seeing. For 99% of computer monitors, that means
> SRGB. Doesn't matter if you personally have a wide-gamut monitor, most
> people don't.
>
> If you work in anything else, you are just creating extra hassle for
> yourself because you won't know how the image will look to the rest of
> the world. You'll have to just edit it again for the people stuck in
> the sRGB color space.
>
> You can create the photo with a non-sRGB color space and let the web
> automatically convert/interpret the colors to sRGB. But if you let the
> web do that conversion, it will not do a great job, some colors will
> look off or desaturated... whereas your own conversion will be exactly
> what you want.
>
> If you shoot raw, there is no color space assigned (yet). If you then
> import the raw into lightroom, lightroom is actually temporarily
> working in their version of the ProPhoto RGB color space,
> (http://digital-photography-school.com/everything-need-know-lightroom-colour-space/)
> which has the biggest gamut of color. Then when you're done playing
> with the various sliders and you like how it looks on the screen, you
> can export to sRGB, AdobeRGB, or ProPhoto. Lightroom will convert the
> colors to the chosen profile, not just assign the profile blindly, and
> it will do a good job of it.
>
> AdobeRGB is specifically for printing (since most devices with screens
> cannot display it) and even then, many printers can't handle it either
> and are working in sRGB. So unless you want to risk paying money for a
> nice print and then it comes out with wacky colors, stick to sRGB.
>
> You can of course work in AdobeRGB for your own personal wallpaper, or
> make specialized versions of some images for other people with
> wide-gamut monitors.
>
> 
>
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Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[Darren Addy]

I'm no expert on this stuff, but it seems to me that Adobe RGB is
specifically for printing and THEN only if the printer can handle it
and is ALSO calibrated to match your calibrated monitor.

In research I found this post, which seemed to make a lot of sense to me:



Flat out - if you're mostly displaying your work on the web, use sRGB.

Read this article: https://fstoppers.com/pictures/adobergb-vs-srgb-3167

Your goal should be to work in the same color space that your target
audience will be seeing. For 99% of computer monitors, that means
SRGB. Doesn't matter if you personally have a wide-gamut monitor, most
people don't.

If you work in anything else, you are just creating extra hassle for
yourself because you won't know how the image will look to the rest of
the world. You'll have to just edit it again for the people stuck in
the sRGB color space.

You can create the photo with a non-sRGB color space and let the web
automatically convert/interpret the colors to sRGB. But if you let the
web do that conversion, it will not do a great job, some colors will
look off or desaturated... whereas your own conversion will be exactly
what you want.

If you shoot raw, there is no color space assigned (yet). If you then
import the raw into lightroom, lightroom is actually temporarily
working in their version of the ProPhoto RGB color space,
(http://digital-photography-school.com/everything-need-know-lightroom-colour-space/)
which has the biggest gamut of color. Then when you're done playing
with the various sliders and you like how it looks on the screen, you
can export to sRGB, AdobeRGB, or ProPhoto. Lightroom will convert the
colors to the chosen profile, not just assign the profile blindly, and
it will do a good job of it.

AdobeRGB is specifically for printing (since most devices with screens
cannot display it) and even then, many printers can't handle it either
and are working in sRGB. So unless you want to risk paying money for a
nice print and then it comes out with wacky colors, stick to sRGB.

You can of course work in AdobeRGB for your own personal wallpaper, or
make specialized versions of some images for other people with
wide-gamut monitors.



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Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

[Jack Davis]

Generous comment, Mark C. Thanks!

J

- Original Message -
From: "Mark C" 
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:13:33 AM
Subject: Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

Stark simplicity - works well!

On 4/28/2016 9:54 AM, Jack Davis wrote:
>
> Not sure if this has been a Peso in the past, but if so, please forgive.
> Thought of it for the May PUG, but made another choice.
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> J
>
> (Fuji 100 print film-red/orange toned filter. LX/A70-210, I believe)
>
> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1053
>


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Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

[Jack Davis]

Thanks, Dan. Appreciated!

J

- Original Message -
From: "Daniel J. Matyola" 
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:52:58 AM
Subject: Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

Interesting and effective image.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 9:54 AM, Jack Davis  wrote:
>
>
> Not sure if this has been a Peso in the past, but if so, please forgive.
> Thought of it for the May PUG, but made another choice.
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> J
>
> (Fuji 100 print film-red/orange toned filter. LX/A70-210, I believe)
>
> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1053
>
> --
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.

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Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

[Jack Davis]

Appreciated, John. Thanks!

J

- Original Message -
From: "John" 
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 8:27:19 AM
Subject: Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

If it was a PESO, it was before I joined the list. I'm glad you waited 
until now.

On 4/28/2016 9:54 AM, Jack Davis wrote:
>
>
> Not sure if this has been a Peso in the past, but if so, please forgive.
> Thought of it for the May PUG, but made another choice.
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> J
>
> (Fuji 100 print film-red/orange toned filter. LX/A70-210, I believe)
>
> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1053
>

-- 
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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Interesting and effective image.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 9:54 AM, Jack Davis  wrote:
>
>
> Not sure if this has been a Peso in the past, but if so, please forgive.
> Thought of it for the May PUG, but made another choice.
>
> Comments appreciated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> J
>
> (Fuji 100 print film-red/orange toned filter. LX/A70-210, I believe)
>
> http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1053
>
> --
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> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

[Mark C]

Stark simplicity - works well!

On 4/28/2016 9:54 AM, Jack Davis wrote:


Not sure if this has been a Peso in the past, but if so, please forgive.
Thought of it for the May PUG, but made another choice.

Comments appreciated.

Thanks!

J

(Fuji 100 print film-red/orange toned filter. LX/A70-210, I believe)

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1053




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Re: Peso-Sunset Gate

[John]

If it was a PESO, it was before I joined the list. I'm glad you waited 
until now.


On 4/28/2016 9:54 AM, Jack Davis wrote:



Not sure if this has been a Peso in the past, but if so, please forgive.
Thought of it for the May PUG, but made another choice.

Comments appreciated.

Thanks!

J

(Fuji 100 print film-red/orange toned filter. LX/A70-210, I believe)

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1053



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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: : PESO - A few grains of pepper

[John]

Gee Toto. I don't think we're in Kansas any more.

That is *SO* damn cool! One or a dozen of my bucket list items are to
photograph Britain's heritage railways.

On 4/28/2016 6:34 AM, Alan C wrote:

Or this big one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Peppercorn_Class_A1_60163_Tornado

Alan C

-Original Message- From: Jostein Øksne
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:32 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: PESO - A few grains of pepper

Cotty is obviously not familiar with Tatsuya Tanaka's photography. :-)

https://www.instagram.com/tanaka_tatsuya/

Jostein

Den 28. april 2016 02.17.14 CEST, skrev Rick Womer :

Makes perfect sense to me!

Just imagine very big peppercorns, or a very little guy with
sandpaper.

On Apr 27, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Bill wrote:


On 4/27/2016 2:23 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

On 27/4/16, Rick Womer, discombobulated, unleashed:


It's as though a guy with sandpaper said "Ah, screw it" and
walked off when he was just behind the front peppercorn.


I admit that in all the years I have been on this list, these words

I

never thought I would read.



Certainly it makes an odd sentence.

bill

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Peso-Sunset Gate

[Jack Davis]

Not sure if this has been a Peso in the past, but if so, please forgive.
Thought of it for the May PUG, but made another choice.

Comments appreciated.

Thanks!

J

(Fuji 100 print film-red/orange toned filter. LX/A70-210, I believe)

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=1053

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Re: GESO - Chalk work

[Daniel J. Matyola]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:41 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> I was thinking of the issues with displaying photos on Facebook that expose 
> certain portions of the breasts. If you used flowers to eclipse those areas 
> you could bud that problem on the nip.

GROAN!

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

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Re: : PESO - A few grains of pepper

[Jack Davis]

Another nice catch, Alan C!

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:34 AM, Alan C  wrote:
> 
> Or this big one:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Peppercorn_Class_A1_60163_Tornado
> 
> Alan C
> 
> -Original Message- From: Jostein Øksne
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:32 AM
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: PESO - A few grains of pepper
> 
> Cotty is obviously not familiar with Tatsuya Tanaka's photography. :-)
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/tanaka_tatsuya/
> 
> Jostein
> 
> Den 28. april 2016 02.17.14 CEST, skrev Rick Womer :
>> Makes perfect sense to me!
>> 
>> Just imagine very big peppercorns, or a very little guy with
>> sandpaper.
>> 
>>> On Apr 27, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Bill wrote:
>>> 
 On 4/27/2016 2:23 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:
 On 27/4/16, Rick Womer, discombobulated, unleashed:
 
> It's as though a guy with sandpaper said "Ah, screw it" and
> walked off when he was just behind the front peppercorn.
 
 I admit that in all the years I have been on this list, these words
>> I
 never thought I would read.
>>> 
>>> Certainly it makes an odd sentence.
>>> 
>>> bill
>>> 
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>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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>> and follow the directions.
>> 
>> http://photo.net/photos/RickW
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 
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Re:: PESO - A few grains of pepper

[Alan C]

Or this big one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Peppercorn_Class_A1_60163_Tornado

Alan C

-Original Message- 
From: Jostein Øksne

Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:32 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: PESO - A few grains of pepper

Cotty is obviously not familiar with Tatsuya Tanaka's photography. :-)

https://www.instagram.com/tanaka_tatsuya/

Jostein

Den 28. april 2016 02.17.14 CEST, skrev Rick Womer :

Makes perfect sense to me!

Just imagine very big peppercorns, or a very little guy with
sandpaper.

On Apr 27, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Bill wrote:


On 4/27/2016 2:23 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:

On 27/4/16, Rick Womer, discombobulated, unleashed:


It's as though a guy with sandpaper said "Ah, screw it" and
walked off when he was just behind the front peppercorn.


I admit that in all the years I have been on this list, these words

I

never thought I would read.



Certainly it makes an odd sentence.

bill

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and follow the directions.

http://photo.net/photos/RickW


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Re: GESO - Chalk work

[Larry Colen]

I was thinking of the issues with displaying photos on Facebook that expose 
certain portions of the breasts. If you used flowers to eclipse those areas you 
could bud that problem on the nip.


On April 24, 2016 11:22:20 AM PDT, Bruce Walker  wrote:
>A boutique art magazine called Emboss is featuring the colourful
>project that started my almost year-long series involving a humongous
>chalkboard that I created in the studio.
>
>http://www.embossmag.com/#!SPOTLIGHT-BRUCE-WALKER/cozyt/571cc4d60cf269c350ee2297
>
>BTW: NSFW. YMMV. OMG!
>
>All shots taken with the 645Z, DFA645 55mm/2.8, f:8, 1/125th sec, 100
>ISO.
>Key light: 5' umbrella softbox, above-left.
>
>Comments welcome!

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Re: PESO - A few grains of pepper

[Jostein Øksne]

Cotty is obviously not familiar with Tatsuya Tanaka's photography. :-) 

https://www.instagram.com/tanaka_tatsuya/

Jostein

Den 28. april 2016 02.17.14 CEST, skrev Rick Womer :
>Makes perfect sense to me!
>
>Just imagine very big peppercorns, or a very little guy with
>sandpaper.
>
>On Apr 27, 2016, at 7:25 PM, Bill wrote:
>
>> On 4/27/2016 2:23 PM, Steve Cottrell wrote:
>>> On 27/4/16, Rick Womer, discombobulated, unleashed:
>>> 
 It's as though a guy with sandpaper said "Ah, screw it" and
 walked off when he was just behind the front peppercorn.
>>> 
>>> I admit that in all the years I have been on this list, these words
>I
>>> never thought I would read.
>>> 
>> 
>> Certainly it makes an odd sentence.
>> 
>> bill
>> 
>> -- 
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
>and follow the directions.
>
>http://photo.net/photos/RickW

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Re: OT: Monitor Specs

[Igor PDML-StR]

Hdmi is digital, cha is analog.
Hdmi-to-vga "adapter"  actually needs to be a digital -to-analog converter.
But IIRC, some video cards can send an analog signal if they sense a simple 
adapter. ... or something like that... I forgot the details. So, even if 
your video card can do that , your hdmi-dvi adapter doesn't  create that 
condition.


So,  you either need a correct direct hdmi-vga adapter (I bought one from 
Amazon for $10-17), or you need an hdmi-vga converter, if the video card is 
not capable.


Situation with dvi is probably similar.

Igor

Sent from mobile phone


Mark C Wed, 27 Apr 2016 14:36:24 -0700 wrote:

I hope to by adapter free with the new monitor. I did try putting theDVI to 
VGA adapter onto the HDMI to DVI adapter and using the HDMI port for the 
VGA monitor - but it did not work. Got a blank screen.





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