Re: Aw: Re: [PEIRCE-L] RE: [biosemiotics:8580] Re: Natural

2015-05-06 Thread Benjamin Udell
Helmut, lists, Aristotle's 10 categories in "Categories" include _/poiein/_ (to do, to make) and _/paschein/_ (to suffer, to undergo), such as 'to cauterize' and 'to be cauterized'. He also discusses _/energeia/_ (activity) and _/entelechia/_, both of which are sometimes translated as 'actuali

Aw: Re: [PEIRCE-L] RE: [biosemiotics:8580] Re: Natural

2015-05-06 Thread Helmut Raulien
Hi!! Agent, Patient, and Effect are a triadic affair, call it relation, call it what you want, but they are triadic. If there is no effect, there was no activity (no Agens). If there was nothing to be the subject, there was no patiens. If there was no effect, there were neither both of them. If t

RE: [PEIRCE-L] RE: [biosemiotics:8580] Re: Natural

2015-05-06 Thread Jeffrey Brian Downard
Hi Ben, Lists, I am drawing on the discussion of formally ordered dyadic relations in "On the Logic of Mathematics; an attempt to develop my categories from within." CP 1.468. Closely connected with this distinction is another; namely, materially ordered dyads are divisible into those in which

[PEIRCE-L] RE: [biosemiotics:8587] Re: Natural

2015-05-06 Thread Gary Fuhrman
Howard, Your first parapraph here is a pretty concise statement of the conceptual framework I’ve been referring to. It conflates so many different dichotomies into one that it’s no wonder they all become “problems” for you. But if you’re asking me to use that very conceptual framework to exp

Re: [PEIRCE-L] RE: [biosemiotics:8580] Re: Natural

2015-05-06 Thread Benjamin Udell
Jeff D., lists, Where does Peirce discuss agent and patient as a dyadic relation? I'm willing to believe that he does so. I recall (perhaps inaccurately) that he called the sign's object the _/agent/_ and the sign itself the _/patient/_, but didn't call the interpretant the _/act/_. - Best,

[PEIRCE-L] Fw: [biosemiotics:8592] Re: Natural

2015-05-06 Thread Helmut Raulien
      Supplement: Patient and agent for me are not a dyad, but parts of a triad, consisting of: Patiens, Agens, Effect. Neither of these three is thinkable or senseful with one of them missing. Dear Stan, Peirceans, Dyadicity or triadicity? My hypothesis about dyadicity is, that there are t

[PEIRCE-L] RE: [biosemiotics:8580] Re: Natural

2015-05-06 Thread Jeffrey Brian Downard
Lists, When it comes to Peirce's explanation the distinction between subject and object, I would think that we might start with his account of the ordered dyadic relation between patient and agent. From these humble beginnings, we are able to build systems of richer relations--such as those in

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:8580] Re: Natural

2015-05-06 Thread Frederik Stjernfelt
Dear Howard, iists - Did I not already answer this? (below) I do not think Peircean semiotics avoids that question. I think it avoids the subject-object terminology in order not to import anthropocentric conceptions from German idealism. Best F Den 04/05/2015 kl. 15.46 skrev Howard Pattee ma

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:8586] Re: Natural

2015-05-06 Thread Howard Pattee
At 05:46 PM 5/5/2015, Gary Fuhrman wrote: It's quite a stretch to read [the Peirce quote] as an assertion that "the subject-object relation" is "obscure and mysterious," and it has nothing to do with the "mind-matter problem" which is the legacy of Cartesian dualism. What is the stretch? Your st