En relación a [PEN-L:2302] Re: Re: The US buys democracy for Yu,
el 25 Sep 00, a las 23:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] dijo:
I disn't say that the historical facts are unimportant--although
sometimes I think it's advisable to forget them for pragmatic purposes
when trying to frame a solution to a
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/25/00 10:56PM
The personal squabble between Lou and Doug is going to ruin all three
lists -- pen-l, marxism, and lbo -- if it doesn't stop.
CB: Didn't Marx answer the question "What is ? " , " squabble" ?
Many people have complained about my typos. they are no doubt due to my bkindfolding
by imperialist propaganda.
The argument that the ethical basis of Marxism is worker's is respectable, but, I
believe, a mistaken reading of Marx. there is an extensive debate on this. A main
figure on the
I am not an academic or an economist. You will have to decide for yourself whether I
am a faithful servant of the IMF. --jks
In a message dated Tue, 26 Sep 2000 7:45:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Nestor Miguel
Gorojovsky" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
En relación a [PEN-L:2302] Re: Re: The US
[By mistake, Michael P. sent the answer to Andrew's question to me rather
than to the list as a whole. ]
"Austin, Andrew" wrote:
Didn't Marx argue that labor-power was the measure of exchange-value?
Andrew Austin
Green Bay, WI
Michael Perelman wrote:
Here is a thumbnail
I don't think that Nestor was accusing you of either crime.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am not an academic or an economist. You will have to decide for yourself whether I
am a faithful servant of the IMF. --jks
In a message dated Tue, 26 Sep 2000 7:45:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, "Nestor
By Chapter One of _Capital_, both Nature and human labor are sources of use-values.
Only human labor is a source of exchange-values.
If an apple falls off of a tree and someone eats it, Nature was a source of that
use-value. But there is no such thing as an exchange-value falling directly off
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/25/00 06:09PM
Given the
pressures on it, the Milosevic government has been one of the mildest in
recent history. It is no more repressive than the FSLN in Nicaragua...
Why this compulsion to lie to blacken the reputation of the Sandinistas?
(((
CB: Would
Why are we discussing this again? didn't we kill this topic? Nonetheless, I
don't see why Blaut's distortions should go unanswered.
Jim Blaut wrote:
ROBERT BRENNER IN THE TUNNEL OF TIME
Robert Brenner is a Marxist, a follower of one tradition in Marxism that
is as diffusionist, as
By Chapter One of _Capital_, both Nature and human labor are
sources of use-values. Only human labor is a source of exchange-values.
=
I know that. My question was trying to get at whether Marx was saying that
even though nature is the source of use-values, it "in-itself" does or does
not
Max Sawicky wrote:
I do have doubts as to the inevitability of crisis,
but I don't believe we have reached "permanent prosperity,
. . . " The latter is a separate matter.
Everyday life might be in crisis, but crisis as a danger
to the economic system is a whole different story. I think
the
Andrew, you are correct in so far as you go. Marx did sys, as you said, that
"he only basis
for their exchange, since they are otherwise differentiated (which is why
their exchange is desirable), is the labor they contain." However, he qualifies
that approach in
Volume 3.
"Austin, Andrew"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/25/00 05:49PM
At 02:59 PM 9/25/00 -0400, you wrote:
Wasn't Marx himself critical of the notion that only labor creates
value? I recall something about nature being a partner in the
enterprise.
for Marx, labor and nature both create use-values, whereas only
labor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/25/00 06:44PM
CB: "Suppose" ? Do you have any doubt that there will eventually be a
crisis, or do you believe that we have reached permanent prosperity, land of
milk and honey continuously ?
I do have doubts as to the inevitability of crisis,
but I don't believe we
CB: So do you not feel that there will inevitably , eventurally be a danger
to the economic system as a whole ? Are you saying that capitalism might be
eternal, permanent, unending ?
yup.
mbs
All you fans of crisis: what's the political benefit been of Japan's
decade of stagnation? Of Latin America's two decades of polarization
punctuated by depression, and of Africa's two decades of depression
and social crisis? The next president of Mexico is going to be a
morally conservative
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/26/00 12:19PM
All you fans of crisis: what's the political benefit been of Japan's
decade of stagnation? Of Latin America's two decades of polarization
punctuated by depression, and of Africa's two decades of depression
and social crisis? The next president of Mexico
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/26/00 12:08PM
CB: So do you not feel that there will inevitably , eventurally be a danger
to the economic system as a whole ? Are you saying that capitalism might be
eternal, permanent, unending ?
Max: yup.
(
CB: An honest person !
CB: So do you not feel that there will inevitably , eventually
be a danger
to the economic system as a whole ? Are you saying that
capitalism might be
eternal, permanent, unending ?
yup.
mbs
===
But Jean-Luc Piccard says that in the 24th century material gain and
economic
Doug asked if the normal downturn of the business cycle constituted a
crisis. He also asked if the ongoing recession in various parts in the
world was a positive factor.
I don't feel particularly confident to give an absolute answer to either
question, but his questions do merit an answer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/26/00 12:08PM
CB: So do you not feel that there will inevitably , eventurally be a danger
to the economic system as a whole ? Are you saying that capitalism might be
eternal, permanent, unending ?
Max: yup.
(
CB: An honest person !
I never lie.
mbs
Yesterday's Wall St. Journal (9/25/00) carried the news that two ADM
executives were ordered to serve sentences longer than originally set.
The Appeals Court concurred with the prosecuter that the initial
sentences were too short (two years each) and ordered the judge to tack
a bit on.
The
The other day I received an unexpected package. A copy of the book
EARTH ODESSEY by Mark Hertsgaard. It was a gift, courtesy of a man with
bone cancer who wanted a safer world for his child. This wonderful
person bought 20,000 copies of the book for distribution to
"...activists, teachers,
Gene Coyle:
"Combining government leadership with market incentives, a
Global Green Deal would do for environmental technologies
like solar power and green cars what industry and government have
already done so well for computer technologies: luanch their commercial
BLS DAILY REPORT, MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 2000
Motorists have plenty of pungent words for the gasoline prices that have
shot upward since 1998, says Peter Behr, writing in The Washington Post
"Business" section (page 10). Economists sometimes call them a tax. That's
how gasoline price increases
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/25/00 10:28PM
Didn't Marx argue that labor-power was the measure of exchange-value?
(((
CB: Hello Andy !
The amount labor-time socially necessary for for the production of a commodity is the
measure of the magnitude of its exchange-value.
Labor-power is
Actually air is a good example of a use-value from nature that does not have
exchange-value because there is no human labor producing it for exchange. It is an
example of wealth that human labor is not a source of .
It's free, for now.
CB
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/25/00 08:35PM
Of course, the
Surely it is too restrictive to distinguish only "use values" and "exchange
values". Things can be intrinsically valuable to humans i.e. the enjoyment
of a sunset, the taste of an apple, etc.etc. without being of any particular
use in the ordinary sense of the world. "use values" recalls what
A question for our more excitable contributors: is an ordinary business
cycle recession a "crisis"?
Not really, though "crisis theory" (a.k.a. Marxian macroeconomics, which
has a heavy infusion from Keynes) helps us understand it.
In a real crisis, either there'd be a major change of course
I never lie.
mbs
I, on the other hand, always lie (including this sentence).
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
At 09:01 AM 9/26/00 -0700, you wrote:
By Chapter One of _Capital_, both Nature and human labor are
sources of use-values. Only human labor is a source of exchange-values.
=
I know that. My question was trying to get at whether Marx was saying that
even though nature is the source of
En relación a [PEN-L:2320] Re: Dissolving history (was Re: Re: ,
el 26 Sep 00, a las 10:50, [EMAIL PROTECTED] dijo
I am not an academic or an economist. You will have to decide for
yourself whether I am a faithful servant of the IMF. --jks
[I had previously pointed out that jks's way of
En relación a [PEN-L:2322] Re: Re: Dissolving history (was Re: ,
el 26 Sep 00, a las 8:30, Michael Perelman dijo:
I don't think that Nestor was accusing you of either crime.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am not an academic or an economist. You will have to decide for
yourself whether I
JD
I think that for Marx, as with Locke, nature has no value _in society_
unless someone mixes labor with it. Both present theories of society when
they present their labor theories.
Locke's labor theory is a theory of property, BTW. That is, it's a (poor)
theory of why some people have
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-- Forwarded Message --
From: neil, 74742,1651
TO: Neil C., 74742,1651
CC:
DATE: 9/26/00 1:46 PM
RE: Electoral Circuses or Working Class Struggles?
Tis the season for yet another electoral circus. The Republican and
Democratic Parties wallow in hundreds
En relación a [PEN-L:2216] oil, wheat, argentina,
el 24 Sep 00, a las 22:33, Michael Perelman dijo:
A recent report by the Worldwatch's Lester Brown points out that while
the U.S pays for its oil imports in part with grain exports, exports
of grain and oil are each concentrated in a
In a message dated 9/26/00 6:09:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Locke's labor theory is a theory of property, BTW. That is, it's a (poor)
theory of why some people have property and some people have more than
others in society. Every few years I try to convince
In a message dated 9/26/00 6:12:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Brenner clearly went out on a limb to attack the D-of-U school. And Blaut
attacks back, also going out on a limb. I won't say which of these two has
higher levels of scholarship. It seems to me that both
Fair enough. Actually I think being an academic is more of a vice and being
an economist is a venial sin. As for stepping further in that direction, I
really to think sometimes it is best to say, Look, I don't care who hit whom
first: we have a Situation here, and what are we going to do about
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Fair enough. Actually I think being an academic is more of a vice and being
an economist is a venial sin.
According to Doug (answering a question at the marxism 2000 plenary
he spoke at) the economics profession is intellectually and morally bankrupt.
(I think I
Ian wrote:
My sense is that this would be somewhat helpful in developing Marxian
theories of enterprises [not Marxian theories of capitalist firms] which
took legal factors into account. It is alternatives not more critique that
needs to be done now. For the last ten months the critiques have
Carrol Cox wrote:
According to Doug (answering a question at the marxism 2000 plenary
he spoke at) the economics profession is intellectually and morally bankrupt.
(I think I have it right from memory. Doug can -- and no doubt will --
correct me if I'm wrong.)
Yeah, I got a little carried away
Ken Hanly wrote:
Surely it is too restrictive to distinguish only "use values" and "exchange
values". Things can be intrinsically valuable to humans i.e. the enjoyment
of a sunset, the taste of an apple,
(Preliminary: Neither Marxism nor any other ism is a TOE [theory of
everything])
***
#1
Vodka Dispute Shows Russia Chaos
September 26, 2000
By JIM HEINTZ
MOSCOW (AP) - Heading the Kristall vodka distillery should be a
businessman's
dream - the chance to manage one of Russia's most prestigious enterprises,
with a world-renowned array of products, a diligent work force
from SLATE magazine's on-line summary of the content of other magazines:
Economist, Sept. 22
The cover story criticizes the spate of WTO/World Bank/IMF protests,
scheduled to continue in Prague next week. To defuse the protesters, the
international organizations have farmed out
Although payments to farmers are always discussed as subsidies, I prefer to
think of them as covering the difference between marginal cost -- what the
farmer sells at -- and average cost, which includes overhead cost. Farmers
can't cover total costs while selling at marginal cost. So farming is
This post constitutes proof positive that Chico is in the forefront of politics,
despite all the news from Prague.
dna wrote:
If you would lke to join the Nudist for Nader here is the deal,
Meet at behind the stage in park plaza thursday at 6:30
bring any funky costumes (or lack therof)
[full article http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/27/national/27HARV.html ]
September 27, 2000
U.S. Seeks Millions in Suit Against Advisers to Russia
By CAREY GOLDBERG
BOSTON, Sept. 26 Federal prosecutors today filed a civil suit contending
that two Harvard University advisers who helped mold
September 27, 2000 For more information:
News ReleaseCall John Rowntree 916-446-1758
BILL FLETCHER, JR. TO TALK ABOUT THE LABOR MOVEMENT IN THE NEW MILLENIUM AT
THE MARXIST SCHOOL OF SACRAMENTO
Bill Fletcher, Jr., Assistant to the President of
forwarded by Michael Hoover
Poor Access to Abortion Endangers Women's Health
Run Date: 09/18/00
By Melinda Voss
WEnews contributing editor
States can improve women's
health by ensuring access to abortion services, but most states, and the
nation as a whole, have failed to
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