yeah, Caesar was for me the best of the comics who "made me think".
i'm looking for an exceptional solo skit of his that i saw only partially on
TV where Sid is outside a wooden fence looking sadly at happy people inside
a cheery, wealthy house with Xmas festivities.
it's a thought monologue, i
the drift of the article is consistent with one in the National Geographic
magazine a while back, so i think it is basically correct.
norm
-Original Message-
From: Ken Hanly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 10:36 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
" ... I've disagreed with Mark Jones on his prophesy of capitalism dooming
itself due to its fundamental dependence upon oil in the near future ..."
Yoshie
---
i must have missed mark's post.
i'm curious how mark arrives at this conclusion. capitalism
i must have missed mark's post.
i'm curious how mark arrives at this conclusion. capitalism can't exist w/o
fossil fuels? why can't it just switch to other fuels: nuclear, solar,
hydrogen, biomass, etc.? so what if fuel costs become higher in the short
run? can't it just pass them along to
IMO, total nonsense.
norm
-Original Message-
From: Louis Proyect [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 12:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:4501] Re: Oil Socialism
i must have missed mark's post.
i'm curious how mark
BLS DAILY REPORT, WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2000
RELEASED TODAY: Labor productivity rose in 1998 in more than three-fourths
of 119 U.S. manufacturing industries. More than two-thirds of the
industries registering productivity growth also posted declines in unit
labor costs. ... In 1998, the
" ... I've disagreed with Mark Jones on his prophesy of capitalism dooming
itself due to its fundamental dependence upon oil in the near future ..."
Yoshie
---
i must have missed mark's post.
i'm curious how mark arrives at this conclusion. capitalism
Let's not raise the temperature on line.
Mikalac Norman S NSSC wrote:
IMO, total nonsense.
norm
-Original Message-
From: Louis Proyect [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 12:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:
Yoshie writes:
... capital takes no account of environmental concerns unless society
forces it to do so; and it seems evident that environmental movements are
unable to make capital the state take more than greenwashing measures.
I think it is not very likely that the world makes a transition
IMO, total nonsense.
norm
***
Well I shudder to learn what you think of this great prediction, then...
"If present trends continue, the world in 2000 will be less crowded (though
more populated), less polluted, more stable ecologically, and less
vulnerable to resource-supply
Jim Devine said on 11/16/00 12:51 P
To my mind, the key issue with fossil fuels is not the absolute shortage
that Mark talks about but instead the environmental impact. So for that
issue, the previous paragraph applies.
The oil has to be used up first in order to maintain control over
At 02:16 PM 11/16/00 -0800, you wrote:
Jim Devine said on 11/16/00 12:51 P
To my mind, the key issue with fossil fuels is not the absolute shortage
that Mark talks about but instead the environmental impact. So for that
issue, the previous paragraph applies.
The oil has to be used up first
A month I could imagine in a small village economy, contained in something like
the biosphere project, and with rough equality, a market economy could possibly
be compatible with some sort of environmental rationality. In the world with
so much power concentrated in the corporate sector, the
- Original Message -
From: Lisa Ian Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 3:53 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:4507] RE: Re: RE: Re: Oil Socialism
One of my sons is an economist working for the Saskatchewan government. Part
of his responsibility is to
What is really amazing is that even though
the Kyoto Protocols were structured so as to
provide this nifty loophole for the US to avoid
doing anything too drastic, there remains this
absolute and overwhelming opposition to them
in the US. Was it not the case that the US Senate
voted 98-0
Jim Devine said on 11/16/00 2:30 P
But by definition you've found the tool to dissolve capitalism by
removing their fossil fuel. Become conservative!
I don't understand. Please explain.
IF: Use of fossil fuels defines capitalism
THEN: Not using fossil fuels dissolves capitalism.
Mikalac Norman S NSSC wrote:
i'm curious how mark arrives at this conclusion. capitalism can't exist w/o
fossil fuels? why can't it just switch to other fuels: nuclear, solar,
hydrogen, biomass, etc.?
I don't think Mark is on Pen-l but I think this is what he would say:
there are no
At 03:22 PM 11/16/00 -0800, you wrote:
Jim Devine said on 11/16/00 2:30 P
But by definition you've found the tool to dissolve capitalism by
removing their fossil fuel. Become conservative!
I don't understand. Please explain.
IF: Use of fossil fuels defines capitalism
THEN: Not using
Jim Devine said on 11/16/00 3:31 P
I guess I don't accept the premise that fossil fuels define capitalism. Do
you? does anyone?
That's what I thought that this thread was based on.
Jim D. says:
Yoshie writes:
... capital takes no account of environmental concerns unless
society forces it to do so; and it seems evident that environmental
movements are unable to make capital the state take more than
greenwashing measures.
I think it is not very likely that the world
I guess I don't accept the premise that fossil fuels define capitalism. Do
you? does anyone?
That's what I thought that this thread was based on.
No -- the thread began with my reply to Lou's posting on Cuba, which
contained good news of Hugo Chavez (of Venezuela) aiding Cuba through
steady
At 07:55 PM 11/16/00 -0500, you wrote:
Yes, but I'm more concerned about the politics of oil supplies than either
of the above, since it tends to make hundreds of bloody imperial flowers
bloom unleash the dogs of war. I feel this way perhaps because I'm from
Japan (remember World War 2!)
Jim D. writes:
Yes, but I'm more concerned about the politics of oil supplies than
either of the above, since it tends to make hundreds of bloody
imperial flowers bloom unleash the dogs of war. I feel this way
perhaps because I'm from Japan (remember World War 2!)
Yes, I understand. I was
full article at: http://www.newscientist.com/dailynews/news.jsp?id=ns178
Burning problem
All the world's oil could be used without wrecking the climate says a
leading climate analyst.
The world has so little oil left in the ground that it could burn the lot
without wrecking the climate,
In the agricultural sector in Cuba the policy seems to be drastically reduce
the use of oil. There is even talk of a return to animal power in some
cases. In some ways this has led to what most leftists would regard as
progressive policies. Less dependence upon monoculture (sugar) for export,
Medical Bulletin: George W. Bush is now under treatment for two
problems--electile dysfunction and premature congratulation.
I think it is not very likely that the world makes a transition from
fossil fuels to non-fossil fuels under capitalism. Mark thinks that
it is technologically impossible to do so; I, in contrast, think that
it is politically impossible to do so under capitalism.
These led me to believe that
Capitalism has come to be dependent on fossil fuels, yes, but *so has
actually existing socialism been, it will remain so in the
foreseeable future*, so oil dependency does *not* define *either*
mode of production -- it has become common to both, which is an
empirical fact.
Yoshie
**
Ken Hanly wrote,
Medical Bulletin: George W. Bush is now under treatment for two
problems--electile dysfunction and premature congratulation.
Wouldn't that be sort of like being both anorexic and obese?
Tom Walker
Sandwichman and Deconsultant
Bowen Island, BC
Capitalism is supposed to have been integrally associated with the rise of
modern technology, which is absolutely dependent on fossil fuels. So, if
modern technology depends on fossil fuels -- everyone but George Gilder
and the like will agree with that -- that maybe you can say that
capitalism
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