It's a pretty important question, IMO. I have no
idea who is right. I'd like to know more. The
challenge is for partisans of either side to provide
third-party corroboration for their claims.
Vituperation is not going to persuade anyone here.
We understand LP's inclination to support
|| -Original Message-
|| From: Max B. Sawicky
|| Deciding who is and is not a 'nation' is a dicey business
|| for an outsider. Some nations are defined by the oppression
|| they suffer at the hands of others. The Palestinians, for
|| instance. Or the black race. That doesn't
This is supposed to be an argument? Everybody has Kurdish friends. I was
married to a wonderful lady who was half Kurdish. I worked for a Kurd, and
it was very inspiring. As a buck private, I had Kurdish sergeants who sat
around in the mess playing a saz and singing Kurdish songs who called us
So what was Turkey's price? Debt forgiveness?
Or just another IMF program?
Doug
Hey!
Just read it in an article by Korkut Boratav, a member of the
Independent Social Scientists- Economists group Ahmet Tonak
mentioned a while ago. That is, he is one of us.
Quoting from the corporate media,
Almost $300,000 per soldier.
On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 09:47:12PM -0800, Sabri Oncu wrote:
$14,000,000,000 in return for the passage of 50,000 US troops
from Turkey.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL
In conclusion, it is observed that the 2000/2001 crisis administration
in Turkey primarily works as a debt-management program. In this sense,
it is understood that the main purpose of the IMF-led salvation packages
that are hailed as big successes in the international media is actually
an
On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Louis Proyect wrote:
---
We observe that what lies behind the colourful jargon
of effective and
transparent government, good governance, and
credibility is a set
of structural transformations to ultimately satisfy the
needs and
demands of the foreign
Title: RE: [PEN-L:34167] Re: Re: Re: Turkey, again...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: the
IMF cannot be considered to be a development
institution of any kind, not even on the most
charitable interpretation of its work.
has the IMF -- as opposed to the WB -- _ever_ been considered
Devine, James wrote:
My statement was too weak. The IMF is not simply a collection
agency. Like its masters at the US Treasury, it's also a
highly-ideological crusader for extending the power of the financial
interests. Like the crusaders of old, it has the power to burn
Constantinople.
Original Message:
-
From: Sabri Oncu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 19:25:21 -0800
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:34048] Re: Turkey
More than that. I read somewhere a while ago that Turkey has the
third largest military on earth, although I don't know which
- Original Message -
From: Sabri Oncu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Louis:
God-damned right. The first thing Turkey should do
is cut it's military budget by 50 percent and reallocate
the money for desperately needed social spending. I was
surprised to read somewhere today that Turkey
It was not criticism of the Turks, but of the others who don't emulate
them. I cannot tell because some people use hotmail or yahoo addresses
even though they are elsewhere.
On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 02:11:58PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think that learning about Turkey and the Turkish
I should have added that the people who participate actively are certainly
predominately doing so from the Anglo Saxon world.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sabri Oncu wrote:
The official unemployment is around 11% as far as I know. It is
based on a work force of roughly 25 million and which means that
officialy the rest of the nation are not actively seeking work.
So, officially we have about 2.8 or so million unemployed in a
population of 68
Mostly in the informal sector, which is huge, and agriculture. Regarding
the informal sector we all know that there are some many measurement related
problems. However, one of my former students from Middle East Technical
University is currently writing his thesis on this topic at UMass and I
Title: RE: [PEN-L:31755] Re: Re: Re: Turkey-Iraq
On the other hand, if Turkey has a weak unemployment insurance system (and a weak welfare state in general), it's extremely hard for anyone to survive while being unemployed. So they are driven to the informal sector or agriculture to survive
Okay. I have an article which outlines my approach to teaching in all my
courses (though I am sorry to say it is mostly micro):
Robert Scott Gassler, The Theory of Political and Social Economics: Beyond
the Neoclassical Perspective, Journal of Interdisciplinary Economics, Vol.
9, No.2, 1998,
Sabri,
Here in Mexico we also said, a few years back, we still have a few state
enterprises to sell, and there came the infamous Tequila effect. We were
also too big to fail.
Cheers,
ignacio
t 03:47 p.m. 08/04/02 -0700, you wrote:
Michael writes:
With Turkey qualify as too big to fail
Sabri, the people demonstrating in the streets are not really interested in
a discussion about the feasibilty of socialism versus capitalism, I would
surmise. The single event that seems to have energized the recent PROTESTS
was
a florist hurling an empty cash register at Ecevit.
Louis Proyect
I agree with Sabri. My own interest in models of socialism is due to the the
fact that in my own twenty years of organizing, whenever I engage with
ordinary people in a way where my socialism is more than a quaint fact about
me, a religious quirk to be tolerated in a useful (hopefully)
I agree with Sabri. My own interest in models of socialism is due to the the
fact that in my own twenty years of organizing, whenever I engage with
ordinary people in a way where my socialism is more than a quaint fact about
me, a religious quirk to be tolerated in a useful (hopefully)
At 02:38 11/12/00 -0800, Colin wrote:
Thanks for comments
I don't know what Lenin had in mind -- these were typically colonial
institutions, but might be a quick expedient before something else could
be set up. Curiously, J.M. Keynes wrote a memo in 1918, while he was at
the British Treasury,
Chris Burford:
The overt agenda however is why the hell is the IMF once again "bailing
out" a major intermediate economy in such a mucky fashion? Why not let them
rot in the name of freedom?
From Robin Hahnel, "Capitalist Globalism in Crisis, Part III: Understanding
the IMF"
But when the IMF
At 09:01 10/12/00 -0500, Louis Proyect quoted:
From Robin Hahnel, "Capitalist Globalism in Crisis, Part III: Understanding
the IMF"
snip
So IMF bailouts are not bailouts of debtor countries and their economies at
all. Thats just a popular misconception that some find convenient to let
pass
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