Re: Query: Ford/General Motors - correction

2004-07-24 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/23/2004 6:35:11 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A per unit drop of labor input of 40% in 30 years is running at an annual improvement factor of more than 10% and what is built into the union contract is an annual improvement factor of 3%

Re: Query: Ford/General Motors

2004-07-23 Thread Perelman, Michael
I think that this is very important. For me it signifies that the center of gravity of the economy is shifting in the direction of finance capital, except that I would include intellectual property as part of the nonmaterial properties that represent the core of finance capital. Michael Perelman

Re: Query: Ford/General Motors

2004-07-23 Thread Daniel Davies
accounting for the profits of lending is the second blackest of the black arts (accounting for the profits of life assurers is the blackest). There are often very substantial gaps indeed between even the best accruals accounts and cash. If the debt ends up not being repaid, this earnings stream

Re: Query: Ford/General Motors

2004-07-23 Thread Waistline2
Wall Street analysts said they'd like to see GM -- as well as Ford -- make more money from selling cars and trucks. Ford is even more dependent than GM on its credit business, getting about 77 percent of its profits from there. "I think at both GM and Ford the reliance is a general concern.

Re: Query: Ford/General Motors

2004-07-23 Thread Carrol Cox
Charles Brown wrote: what is progressive economist take on ford and general motors releasng info the other day indicating that each only made profits from credit/lending operations... michael hoover ^ You must be reading Detroit newspapers in Ann Arbor, Michael. It made the Chicago

Re: Query: Ford/General Motors

2004-07-23 Thread Michael Perelman
I don't recall the exact details, but a few years ago when Rupert Murdoch was looking to expand his satellite business the Wall Street Journal said that he was mulling over the possibility of buying General Motors, because its satellite division was worth more on the market than the company as a

Re: Query: Ford/General Motors

2004-07-23 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/23/2004 4:04:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CB: Well GM is only about the third largest company in the world now. I wonder if what's good for General Motors is still good for America. Way back in the thirties it was Alfred P. Sloan ( I think)

Re: Query: Ford/General Motors

2004-07-23 Thread Waistline2
General Motors put on the back burner for a moment its new production facility design of modular produced vehicles . .. where the modules are shipped to a central point for assembly. By the early 1970 General Motors already had the blueprints for a 90 - 95% automated engine assembly plant .

Re: Query from a correspondent

2004-07-14 Thread Michael Hoover
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/12/04 5:42 PM For some inexplicable reason I am cyber-debating some American social democrat. He insists that the 1974-75 oil shock caused the US recession and (implicitly) US decline from hegemony and the good days. We three all disagree with each other on many questions

Re: Query from a correspondent

2004-07-14 Thread Doug Henwood
The Federal Reserve began raising interest rates in 1972 - gently at first, but more aggressively in 1973. The fed funds rate broke 10% in July 1973 for the first time ever. Inflation had been rising - from under 3% in mid-1972 to 6% a year later - and the monthly inflation rate was hitting an

Re: query: teaching undergrad micro?

2004-06-30 Thread Devine, James
The book is by Goodwin, Nelson, Ackerman, and Weisskopf and its title is MICROECONOMICS IN CONTEXT. Its focus is to not just give the standard neoclassical stuff but also alternative theories. It's not radical like Hahnel. Rather, it's more sophisticated than the standard textbook. Thus it

Re: query: trickle-down economics

2004-06-25 Thread nomi prins
Reverse-Robinhood? -Original Message- From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Devine, James Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 11:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L] query: trickle-down economics does anyone know of a good synonym for trickle-down economics besides

Re: query: trickle-down economics

2004-06-25 Thread Michael Perelman
Krugman used dooh nibor or robin hood spelled backwards. On Fri, Jun 25, 2004 at 09:03:32AM -0400, nomi prins wrote: Reverse-Robinhood? -Original Message- From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Devine, James Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 11:39 PM To: [EMAIL

Re: query: unemployment insurance.

2004-06-18 Thread Max B. Sawicky
here's something on current law: http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/datazone_uicalc_index -Original Message- From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Devine, James Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 7:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: query: unemployment insurance. where

Re: query: unemployment insurance.

2004-06-17 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jim: In the Green Book, i.e. the compedium of data produced by the House of Representatives Committee on Ways and Means. They were doing them annually, then biennially, and now I think they haven't done one since 2001 (pending a longer-term consensus on welfare reform). But I think the data is

Re: query: unemployment insurance.

2004-06-17 Thread Max B. Sawicky
A new green book came out a month or two ago. http://waysandmeans.house.gov/Documents.asp?section=813 max -Original Message- From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: query

Re: query: labor arbitrage

2004-05-28 Thread Devine, James
thanks. By the way, labor arbitrage is part of the race to the bottom or what I called competitive austerity in my 1983 REVIEW OF RADICAL POLITICAL ECONOMICS article. My concept was more political-economic, in that it also involved cutting of the social wage. Jim

Re: query: labor arbitrage

2004-05-26 Thread Michael Perelman
Stephen Roach? http://www.morganstanley.com/GEFdata/digests/20040209-mon.html On Wed, May 26, 2004 at 04:55:42PM -0700, Devine, James wrote: what's the name of the economist (left-Keynesian, pessimistic, works for some big bokerage) who recently wrote about labor arbitrage? where can I find

Re: query: labor arbitrage

2004-05-26 Thread Devine, James
right. thanks. -Original Message- From: Michael Perelman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed 5/26/2004 5:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [PEN-L] query: labor arbitrage Stephen Roach?

Re: query: Kotlikoff

2004-04-07 Thread Max B. Sawicky
Larry K is an interestingly perverse case. He's done a lot of high-powered neo-classical micro re: public finance, but over the past decade got obsessed with generational accounts. (Other devotees include Alan Auerbach and David Bradford, neither of whom are crazy.) He thinks of himself as a

Re: Query

2004-04-05 Thread dsquared
to be honest the only way to get an answer to this sort of thing is to track down the bloke at the statistics agency who maintains the series and get him to take you through it line by line. Most of them are quite pleased that somebody took an interest. dd On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:07:12 -0500,

Re: query: institutionalized population

2004-02-26 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
In the US Bureau of Labor Statistics current population survey, who counts as being part of the Institutionalized population and thus is excluded from the labor force? Are prisoners who are paid to answer phones (etc.) part of the paid labor force and employment? The US non-institutional

Re: query

2004-02-19 Thread Michael Perelman
could you mean the Repub. Harold Stassen? On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:05:59AM -0800, Devine, James wrote: I am struggling to remember a name and it's bugging me, so I thought maybe bugging pen-l could help. (I tried googling...) What is the name of the Democratic Party candidate for President

Re: query

2004-02-19 Thread Max B. Sawicky
he was a Republican. -Original Message- From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael Perelman Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: query could you mean the Repub. Harold Stassen? On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:05:59AM -0800, Devine

Re: query

2004-02-19 Thread Eugene Coyle
Jerry Brown? Oh, no, that was later. Devine, James wrote: I am struggling to remember a name and it's bugging me, so I thought maybe bugging pen-l could help. (I tried googling...) What is the name of the Democratic Party candidate for President who ran in the early 1950s presidential primaries

Re: query

2004-02-19 Thread Devine, James
that's him! by today's standards, he was a liberal Democrat! Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: Michael Perelman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:11 AM To: [EMAIL

Re: query

2004-02-19 Thread Michael Hoover
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/19/04 12:10PM could you mean the Repub. Harold Stassen? On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 09:05:59AM -0800, Devine, James wrote: I am struggling to remember a name and it's bugging me, so I thought maybe bugging pen-l could help. (I tried googling...) What is the name of the

Re: Query -- book on JFK death?

2004-01-17 Thread Michael Perelman
It is the dad of the current spokeman. On Sat, Jan 17, 2004 at 02:16:10PM -0800, Eugene Coyle wrote: Back around September or so I read about a forthcoming book that would assert that LBJ was behind the assassination of JFK. What made it most interesting was that the author was the father of

Re: Query

2003-12-28 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
The numbers seem bizarre. Two managers for every 3 workers? Quite. But many workers with a supervisory role are called managers, and they make senior staff with long years of service a manager as well even if they aren't in charge of much, more a question of pay really. In which case the title

Re: Query

2003-12-27 Thread michael
Carroll's figures seemed off to me also. ATT is disappearing quickly. Here is some unformatted data. The figures represent data for the years: 1993 1994 1995 1996 (approx.) Management/Professional 149,515 145,884 151,224 N/A Occupational 162,677 153,195

Re: Query

2003-12-27 Thread joanna bujes
Not that bizarre. I'm a moron at research, but the very large company I work for (Sun is shining...Weather is sweet...Makes me want to move...) has about seven layers of management on top of the grunts (me). Lots of managers. Joanna Carrol Cox wrote: There was an odd little news bit in the

Re: query

2003-12-20 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
Das Kapital Vol. 1 came out on 14 September 1867 in an edition of 1,000 copies, priced at 3 Taler and 10 groschen per copy. J.

Re: Query

2003-12-19 Thread Michael Hoover
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/18/03 4:36 PM A friend passed along this query from a European correspondent: Do you know anybody critical of the US system of tuition fees who argues from an economic point of view: i.e. who refers to higher education as public good? We need to be backed up by critics from

Re: Query

2003-12-19 Thread Michael Hoover
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/18/03 5:32 PM Now you have students working 20+ hours and trying to get an education. I see high numbers dropping out due to stress -- They try to rush through to get it over with and cannot maintain the pace. The quality of education suffers as our neoclassical friends

Re: Query

2003-12-19 Thread Michael Hoover
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/19/03 8:42 AM [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/18/03 5:32 PM ago...florida has never been hotbed of either higher ed or public goods but this makes good private/exclusive - public/inclusive and shows how situation has become more 'liberal' and less 'democratic'... michael hoover

Re: Query

2003-12-18 Thread Michael Perelman
I have made the point. I think lots of people have. Now you have students working 20+ hours and trying to get an education. I see high numbers dropping out due to stress -- They try to rush through to get it over with and cannot maintain the pace. The quality of education suffers as our

Re: Query

2003-12-18 Thread Joel Blau
I'd try Barbara Miner in Milwaukee. If she doesn't know herself, she will surely know someone who does. Joel Blau Eugene Coyle wrote: A friend passed along this query from a European correspondent: Do you know anybody criticalof the US system of tuition fees who argues from

Re: Query

2003-12-18 Thread paul phillips
Also, didn't someone in Freeman and Card, "Small Differences that Matter" make the point that the higher tuition in the US relative to in Canada was one of the factors explaining the greater increase in income differentials in the US and also a reason for the lower percentage of the young

Re: query: good will

2003-11-14 Thread nomi prins
Good Will, which is treated as a balance sheet asset, is technically the excess of the purchase price over the acquired company's book value of its equity balances ((primarily retained earnings and capital stock (from an accounting standpoint), and sometimes including treasury stock if the company

Re: query: good will

2003-11-14 Thread michael
Macleod, H. D. 1855. Theory and Practice of Banking, 2d ed. (London: Longmans and Green, 1866) was the first to treat goodwill as capital. The Right to receive the future profits of the business, is a property quite separate and distinct and distinct from the house or shop, and the actual goods

Re: Query: critique of production functions -clarification-

2003-11-04 Thread Devine, James
It's interesting that in some ways, Marx's analysis of production in volume I of CAPITAL is similar to the neoclassical notion of an _aggregate_ production function, which is even worse than a micro-level production function. He largely ignores the qualitative differences amongst different

Re: Query: critique of production functions -clarification-

2003-11-04 Thread Julio Huato
What production function do we reject? And on what grounds? IMO, Anwar Shaikh's claim is that fitting an homothetic production function on aggregate data is arbitrary. As they'd say in econometrics, there's an identification problem because such data don't allow to single out the parameters.

Re: Query: critique of production functions

2003-11-03 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
See Prof. Anwar Shaikh's articles on the humbug production function (not to be confused with the Cobb-Douglas production function). J. - Original Message - From: Matías Scaglione [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:39 AM Subject: [PEN-L] Query:

Re: Query: critique of production functions

2003-11-03 Thread e. ahmet tonak
Here is the article Michael and Jurriaan suggested, in downloadable form: http://homepage.newschool.edu/~AShaikh/humbug2.pdf ahmet tonak Michael Perelman wrote: Shaikh, AM, (1974). "Laws of Algebra and Laws of Production: The Humbug Production Function", Review of Economics and

Re: Query: critique of production functions

2003-11-03 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
He actually wrote two articles on it. Maybe in the New Palgrave dictionary of economics, or another dictionary ? J. - Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:52 AM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Query: critique of

Re: Query: critique of production functions

2003-11-03 Thread Eubulides
http://growthconf.ec.unipi.it/papers/Felipe.pdf AGGREGATION IN PRODUCTION FUNCTIONS: WHAT APPLIED ECONOMISTS SHOULD KNOW Abstract: This paper surveys the theoretical literature on aggregation of production functions (e.g., Klein, Leontief, Nataf, Gorman, Fisher, Sato, etc.) from the point of view

Re: Query: critique of production functions

2003-11-03 Thread e. ahmet tonak
OK, Jurriaan; you want the whole package! Here it is: Palgrave entry: http://homepage.newschool.edu/~AShaikh/pal7.pdf Original 1974 article: http://homepage.newschool.edu/~AShaikh/humbug.pdf Solow's rejoinder (Anwar's postcript to his own 1980 article --a chapter in Ed Nell's book--

Re: Query: critique of production functions and productive forces

2003-11-03 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
The conceptual problem in economic theory is that Marx's concept of productive powers of labour contains an irreducibly extra-economic aspect, namely the social co-operation of labour based on a specific division of labour, which cannot be valued precisely in advance of sale of output, and whose

Re: Query

2003-11-01 Thread Devine, James
I find Harrison's MARXIAN ECONOMICS FOR SOCIALISTS (Pluto) to be very good in terms of a clear presentation. By not hiding political implications, Harrison is in many ways less ideological than those who don't deal with those issues. Charlie Andrews' FROM CAPITALISM TO EQUALITY is also very

Re: Query

2003-11-01 Thread Devine, James
It's Houghton-Mifflin (sp?), not prentice-hall. -- Jim i wrote: as for mainstream economics, the Goodwin, Nelson, Ackerman, and Weisskopf book MICROECONOMICS IN CONTEXT (prentice-hall, preliminary edition). Jim

Re: Query

2003-11-01 Thread andie nachgeborenen
My favorite books on Marxist economics: 1. Paul Sweezy, The Theory of Capitalist Development -- a wonderfully lucid exposition of Marx's views. 2. Harry Braverman, Labor and Monopoly Capitalism. Still the best account of the exploitation of labor in capitalism. 3. Ernest Mandel, Marxian

Re: Query

2003-11-01 Thread Mike Ballard
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can anybody suggest a non-ideological, as well as an ideoligcally Marxist primary economics text for me? Benjamin ** Hi Benjamin, Go to the source. Marx's speech now titled, Value, Price and Profit is my favourite introductory piece. From there, go to

Re: Query

2003-10-31 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
Some useful introductions to Marx's economic ideas are: Ben Fine (1989) Marx's Capital, Macmillan, 3rd Edition (the briefest) Duncan Foley (1986) Understanding Capital: Marx's Economic Theory, Harvard University Press. Geoffrey Kay (1979), The Economic Theory of the Working Class,

Re: query: Chiapas coffee

2003-10-02 Thread Mike Ballard
You could try here: http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/fairtrade/coffee/ --- Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: twice, I've seen Chiapas coffee for sale. Does buying it help those in Chiapas who support the Zapatistas (the EZLN) in any way? Jim Devine

Re: Query- Eisenhower veto

2003-09-17 Thread Eugene Coyle
Thanks, Michael. I'd heard about Caro's account of the personal destruction of Leland Olds over his renomination to head the Federal Power Commission, FPC, now FERC. And I remembered, vaguely, the bribery incident. So I thought to put together a pamphlet about FERC, including the gossip about

Re: Query- Eisenhower veto

2003-09-16 Thread Michael Hoover
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/15/03 04:21AM Eisenhower vetoed a bill to deregulate natural gas (or deregulate a portion of the industry). Eisenhower supported the bill but my recollection is that after congress passed the bill it was learned that one or more representatives had been given a bribe to

Re: Query- Eisenhower veto

2003-09-15 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
I'm trying to locate text about a veto by President Eisenhower. A Google search didn't do it for me. Eisenhower vetoed a bill to deregulate natural gas (or deregulate a portion of the industry). Eisenhower supported the bill but my recollection is that after congress passed the bill it was

Re: Query- Eisenhower veto

2003-09-15 Thread Eugene Coyle
Wow! Thanks, Yoshie. This is way beyond what I had hoped for. Gene Coyle Yoshie Furuhashi wrote: I'm trying to locate text about a veto by President Eisenhower. A Google search didn't do it for me. Eisenhower vetoed a bill to deregulate natural gas (or deregulate a portion of the industry).

Re: Query- Eisenhower veto

2003-09-15 Thread Michael Perelman
Yoshie has a track record for this sort of service. On Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 10:23:23AM -0700, Eugene Coyle wrote: Wow! Thanks, Yoshie. This is way beyond what I had hoped for. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail

Re: query

2003-08-14 Thread Dan Scanlan
does anyone know how to get a complete list of the registered and announced candidates to replace Gray Davis as CA's guv? Look on the comics page.

Re: query

2003-08-14 Thread Devine, James
I looked at the Cal. Sec. of State's site, which only lists the 2002 candidates. It's useful to know that Gary Coleman (of the TV sit-com Diffrent Strokes) and Gallagher (of watermelons) are running, along with Angelyne (who's famous for being famous). Jim Devine

Re: query

2003-08-10 Thread Michael Perelman
How much space do you have on your hard drive? Check the Cal. Sec. of State site. Also, you forget to mention that Issa, the car alarm candidate, began stealing cars. On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 09:56:15AM -0700, Devine, James wrote: does anyone know how to get a complete list of the registered

Re: Query

2003-07-26 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
...the issue is not more versus less government [or big government versus small government], but rather to whose interests the government gives effect. Thus, a movement from more to less stringent requirements for the emissions of polluting firms is not a move from more to less government

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-07-01 Thread Grant Lee
Louis, I think the unfortunate truth is that if the PCC had wanted to achieve anything like full economic development -- on such a small, resource-poor and politically isolated island -- it would have to have resorted to a far greater degree of coercion. That has been the case in the

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-30 Thread Grant Lee
Louis, Oh, I see. We are dealing with gulags, aren't we. I should have realized that this is what you were getting at. For another version of reality, I recommend Edward Boorstein's The Economic Transformation of Cuba Both Boorstein's anecdote _and_ the existence of some forced labour in

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-30 Thread Louis Proyect
Grant Lee: Both Boorstein's anecdote _and_ the existence of some forced labour in Cuba are beside the point. In spite of its admirable record of achievements in social services, Cuba still has huge economic problems, which threaten the government of the PCC. Well, okay. Just as long as we

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-29 Thread Grant Lee
Louis, But I said that the right to work in a capitalist country, including Chavez's Venezuela or Peron's Argentina, is not the same thing as job entitlements in Cuba or the USSR, for that matter. This is a fundamental distinction. What are job entitlements really, when the alternative is a

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-29 Thread Louis Proyect
Grant Lee: What are job entitlements really, when the alternative is a labour camp or prison? One difference between communism in an underdeveloped country and communism in a developed country is that unless there is forced labour in the former case, development will not be possible. Oh, I see. We

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-28 Thread Grant Lee
Louis, So, fine. Malaysia is not the best example. Let's compare Peron's Argentina with Menem's Argentina. Yes, Juan Peron's program was leftist, revolving around state ownership, tariffs, subsidies and so on. Nevertheless it did not go anywhere near the vital step of annihilating capital

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-28 Thread Louis Proyect
Grant Lee: I believe the Italian constitution includes a right to work, for what such things are worth. There may not have been an institutional guarantee of a job for life in most developed countries during the era of the long post-WW2 boom and Keynesianism, but (with the probable exception of

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-27 Thread Grant Lee
Louis, Everything is relative. Malaysia is relatively protectionist, as opposed to Argentina, for example. Until recently, both had very open markets in most sectors of their economies. I have to say that the Malaysian economy and its politics seem to be poorly understood by people outside the

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-27 Thread Louis Proyect
Grant Lee wrote: Until recently, both had very open markets in most sectors of their economies. I have to say that the Malaysian economy and its politics seem to be poorly understood by people outside the region. The Malaysian car industry _is_ a notable exception, as it is heavily protected. But

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-26 Thread Grant Lee
Jim, I think Michael is right, discussions about Stalin have been done to deathso to speak. What is important is that most people in the USSR did support the regime most of the time. It may not have lived up to the stated intention to abolish the state, but it is that stated which is crucial

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-26 Thread Devine, James
Title: RE: [PEN-L] Query from a Venezuelan okay. I wonder, though, about Soviet workers' support for their government (that Andie points to). What are we to conclude? what are we to say about the support by US workers for US imperialism in the current era? you can use any definition you

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-26 Thread Carrol Cox
Devine, James wrote: okay. I wonder, though, about Soviet workers' support for their government (that Andie points to). What are we to conclude? what are we to say about the support by US workers for US imperialism in the current era? you can use any definition you want, but how useful is

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-25 Thread Grant Lee
Jim Devine writes: Grant writes: In reality I don't really think there is much difference between state socialism and state capitalism, although the former is distinguished by the support of the working class and the stated intention to abolish the state, at some point in the future. did

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-25 Thread Devine, James
Title: RE: [PEN-L] Query from a Venezuelan Grant writes: In reality I don't really think there is much difference between state socialism and state capitalism, although the former is distinguished by the support of the working class I asked: did the Russian working class support

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-25 Thread Michael Perelman
I have found that discussions on Stalin on this list have never led to much communication or information. On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 04:40:52PM +0800, Grant Lee wrote: Jim Devine writes: Grant writes: In reality I don't really think there is much difference between state socialism and state

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-25 Thread Grant Lee
Louis: From the viewpoint of US capital it makes no difference whether it is excluded from a capitalist protectionist state or a socialist one. Of course it does. A socialist state like Cuba is the threat of a positive example. Malaysia is just a place that you can't make a fast buck. Tell

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-25 Thread Louis Proyect
Grant Lee: Tell that to Intel, whose Malaysian plant made the chip I'm using to write this email http://www.intel.com/jobs/malaysia/sites/ In fact, Malaysian industrialisation has more to do with direct and indirect export subsidies paid to foreign and locally owned firms alike. Not a good

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-25 Thread andie nachgeborenen
did the Russian working class support the Soviet state in 1936? Overwhelmingly. Every report from the period indicates incredible optimism, a heroic sense of pride in the revolution, love for Stalin, the works. The intelligentsia and the Old Bolsheviks had more complex attitudes, but the

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-24 Thread Devine, James
Title: RE: [PEN-L] Query from a Venezuelan Grant writes: In reality I don't really think there is much difference between state socialism and state capitalism, although the former is distinguished by the support of the working class and the stated intention to abolish the state, at some point

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-24 Thread Louis Proyect
Grant Lee: From the viewpoint of US capital it makes no difference whether it is excluded from a capitalist protectionist state or a socialist one. Of course it does. A socialist state like Cuba is the threat of a positive example. Malaysia is just a place that you can't make a fast buck. Maybe

Re: Query from a Venezuelan (reply to Chris B.)

2003-06-23 Thread Grant Lee
From:Chris Burford [EMAIL PROTECTED] Coincidentally I was doing a Google search and came across this contribution to LBO-talk in October 2001 by Greg Schofield, which seems to put the issue well. [Unfortunately his email address no longer seems to be working. If anyone can forward me

Re: Query from a Venezuelan (reply to Chris B.)

2003-06-23 Thread Louis Proyect
Grant Lee: My point was not to lionise free trade. The Venezuelan situation raises many questions in my mind. I mean, for example, protectionism, like land reform, is very far removed from a genuinely socialist/communist society, assuming that _is_ what Chavez and the Bolivarians want to achieve.

FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-23 Thread Devine, James
Title: FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan Chris Burford writes: The so-called free trade of the present period is no more than international capital giving itself the freedom to price fix unhindered, the freedom to exercise its plans without let, the freedom to use one

Re: FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-23 Thread Bill Lear
On Monday, June 23, 2003 at 10:34:16 (-0700) Devine, James writes: ... that's right. It's important to distinguish free trade in theory (the general lowering of tariffs and quotas on imports and the end of export subsidies) and what it usually means in practice (free movement of capital but

Re: FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-23 Thread Ian Murray
Chris Burford writes: The so-called free trade of the present period is no more than international capital giving itself the freedom to price fix unhindered, the freedom to exercise its plans without let, the freedom to use one group of workers to compete against another on a world scale.

Re: FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-23 Thread Devine, James
Title: RE: [PEN-L] FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan I wanted to add a point: back in the 19th century, Germany and the US were able to successfully use tariffs to promote national economic development. But part of this success was the relatively small technological gap

Re: FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-23 Thread Chris Burford
At 2003-06-23 11:05 -0700, Jim Devine wrote: I wanted to add a point: back in the 19th century, Germany and the US were able to successfully use tariffs to promote national economic development. But part of this success was the relatively small technological gap between them and the market

Re: FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-23 Thread Anthony D'Costa
Yes, the tech gap was much smaller between UK and Germany. Today it is much wider between OECD and the rest. But there are some areas where the gaps are much narrower, even if the economic base (market size, etc) are quite disparate. The IT industry would be a good example of this. But not

Re: FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-23 Thread Michael Perelman
Besides tariffs, Germany developed the finest educational system in the world. For example, most of the most famous American economists studied in Germany. The chemical industry was probably leading industry in the late 19th century. German chemical science led the world. Regarding Jim

Re: FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-23 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Besides tariffs, Germany developed the finest educational system in the world. For males. Ian

Re: FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-23 Thread Michael Perelman
You might have said CERTAIN males, since their system was hardly egalitarian. On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 09:19:28PM -0700, Ian Murray wrote: - Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Besides tariffs, Germany developed the finest educational system in the world.

Re: FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-23 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] FW: [PEN-L] On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan You might have said CERTAIN males, since their system was hardly egalitarian

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-22 Thread Grant Lee
Karl Marx, 1848, On the Question of Free Trade(Speech to the Democratic Association of Brussels at its public meeting of January 9, 1848). Do not imagine, gentlemen, that in criticizing freedom of trade we have the least intention of defending the system of protection. One may declare oneself an

On free trade Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-22 Thread Chris Burford
Coincidentally I was doing a Google search and came across this contribution to LBO-talk in October 2001 by Greg Schofield, which seems to put the issue well. [Unfortunately his email address no longer seems to be working. If anyone can forward me his current address, I would be grateful.] The

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-21 Thread Michael Hoover
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/20/03 9:57 AM Dear Louis Proyect, I am an Argentinean friend of Néstor Gorojoski. I am working for the Government of Venezuela. Venezuela is in the middle of a process of industrialization, and the government is taking an active and protectionist economic policy to

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-21 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: Michael Hoover [EMAIL PROTECTED] primary sources: alexander hamilton, 'report on manufacturing'... http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/text/civ/1791manufactures.html henry clay, _papers of henry clay_ (there's a number of volumes, i'm away from my stuff so

Re: Query from a Venezuelan

2003-06-20 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 6:57 AM Subject: [PEN-L] Query from a Venezuelan Dear Louis Proyect, I am an Argentinean friend of Néstor Gorojoski. I am working for the Government of Venezuela. Venezuela is

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