Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-18 Thread Brad De Long
Brad, I also noticed that the bill was concerned about the elimination of corruption. What is the record of United States regarding corruption? Our political campaigns are nothing more than organized bribery. Is it possible for a non-corrupt politicians to get elected to anything higher than

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons(fwd)

2000-05-16 Thread Doug Henwood
Rob Schaap wrote: Two men expressing affection in a homophobic world may do so by hugging each other, but only if they bring their forearms hard against each others' backs, preferably bruising some ribs, and then, for but a moment, making sure to hug hard enough to induce pain. This is a very

[Fwd: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)] (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread md7148
Louis is right! Mine ps: I don't know how this message looks like. my server practically does not work now.. This seems correct -- but it also seems to indicate the irrelevance or even obscurantist nature of long arguments about whether some other people are/were happier in Situation A

Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread Doug Henwood
Jim Devine wrote: Brad DeLong writes: Either that or people actually *liked* having their teeth fall out... Louis Proyect writes: I don't think the discussion is about dental hygeine. It is about the right of a Vietnamese in the 60s or a Colombian peasant today to not have napalm dropped on

Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread Doug Henwood
Charles Brown wrote: Even if the olden days were not the good olden days, this literature may reflect the enormous pain suffered by the English peasants who were brutalized in the primitive accumulation. I don't think peasants made a large contribution to canonical English poetry, except as

Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread Charles Brown
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/13/00 11:19PM I wrote: [*] Has anyone ever noticed the similarity between the development of the USSR and that of the Ford Motor Company (or similar "entrepreneurial" corporations)? It starts with the radical idiosyncrasies of the Great Leader (Stalin,

Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread Charles Brown
Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/15/00 01:24PM Jim Devine wrote: Brad DeLong writes: Either that or people actually *liked* having their teeth fall out... Louis Proyect writes: I don't think the discussion is about dental hygeine. It is about the right of a Vietnamese in the 60s or a

Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread JKSCHW
In a message dated Mon, 15 May 2000 3:07:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Charles Brown wrote: Even if the olden days were not the good olden days, this literature may reflect the enormous pain suffered by the English peasants who were brutalized in the

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread Doug Henwood
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And this from a former lit grad student! I think they need less Theory and more literature in those classes. My old Oxford Anthology of English poetry has not insubstantial chunks of material that we would call folk poetry, medieval and Renaissance, not all of it is

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread JKSCHW
The edition of the Oxford Anthology I have at work is dated 1935. Maybe they dumped the folk poetry and ballads by the 70s, and reinstated them later? --jks In a message dated Mon, 15 May 2000 4:10:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread Carrol Cox
Louis Proyect wrote: This seems correct -- but it also seems to indicate the irrelevance or even obscurantist nature of long arguments about whether some other people are/were happier in Situation A rather than Situation B. Carrol You don't seem to get it. This is not about a "Golden

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread Michael Perelman
Carrol, we have no need to get nasty here. Carrol Cox wrote: Lou, this is either pure academic bullshit or it is the kind of red-baiting I have been fighting against over on lbo. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread JKSCHW
In a message dated 00-05-15 18:09:36 EDT, you write: A friend of mine from grad school, Donna Landry (co-editor of The Spivak Reader), has been studying peasant and working class women poets of the 17th 18th centuries. I asked her if she likes reading the stuff, which from what I've

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread Carrol Cox
Michael Perelman wrote: Carrol, we have no need to get nasty here. Carrol Cox wrote: Lou, this is either pure academic bullshit or it is the kind of red-baiting I have been fighting against over on lbo. Lou and I always forgive each other. Carrol

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread Rob Schaap
Please find attached one manly cyber-hug, Justin! Well-spoken, comrade! If, as Frost said, 'poetry is what gets left out in translation' (though I'm convinced Dryden managed to keep plenty of Chaucer in), 'tis even the translation that's left out in the postie critique, where the heroic couplet

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread md7148
what is this "manly cyber-hug"? (smile!) Mine Please find attached one manly cyber-hug, Justin..

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-15 Thread Rob Schaap
G'day Mine, Two men expressing affection in a homophobic world may do so by hugging each other, but only if they bring their forearms hard against each others' backs, preferably bruising some ribs, and then, for but a moment, making sure to hug hard enough to induce pain. This is a very

Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-14 Thread JKSCHW
In a message dated 00-05-14 00:02:44 EDT, you write: Ransom, Roger L. and Richard Sutch. 1977. One Kind of Freedom: The Economic Consequences of Emancipation (Cambridge University Press). show that leisure increased immediately after the Civil War, however, that phenomenon was short lived

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-14 Thread Brad De Long
Title: Re: [PEN-L:18928] Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd) How much of the legislation relates to tariffs? Brad De Long wrote: And this is supposed to be an argument that U.S. restrictions on imports of African textiles are for Africans' own good? -- Michael Perelman Title: An act

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-14 Thread Michael Perelman
Brad, Thank you very much the for sending the summary of the bill. I only skimmed through it briefly. I know that Carl Linder with got some provisions put in the bill that makes the retaliation against Europe stronger regarding his banana interests. I also noticed that the bill was concerned

Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-14 Thread M A Jones
- From: "Michael Perelman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 2:22 AM Subject: [PEN-L:18916] Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd) Schumpeter? Jim Devine wrote: [*] Has anyone ever noticed the similarity between the development of the USSR and that of the

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Michael Perelman
Does this mean that peasant societies were inefficient or that a large portion of the output was siphoned all by landlords and userers? Dennis R Redmond wrote: But didn't this have to do with limited food sources and chronic disease and malnutrition? Peasant societies couldn't sustain

Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Louis Proyect
This seems correct -- but it also seems to indicate the irrelevance or even obscurantist nature of long arguments about whether some other people are/were happier in Situation A rather than Situation B. Carrol You don't seem to get it. This is not about a "Golden Age". It is whether radicals

Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Michael Perelman
How much of the legislation relates to tariffs? Brad De Long wrote: And this is supposed to be an argument that U.S. restrictions on imports of African textiles are for Africans' own good? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel.

Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Dennis R Redmond
On Fri, 12 May 2000, Louis Proyect wrote: very often of a seasonal nature. If you read Juliette Schor's "The Overworked American", you will discover that the average peasant worked half as many hours as the average proletarian during the rise of the industrial revolution. That is the reason

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Rod Hay
My understand of the shift from hunting and gathering to agriculture is that nutritional standards did decline, but so did the risk of starvation. Agricultural output was less uncertain. Rod Jim Devine wrote: At 02:33 AM 05/13/2000 -0700, you wrote: On Fri, 12 May 2000, Louis Proyect wrote:

Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Jim Devine
I wrote: [*] Has anyone ever noticed the similarity between the development of the USSR and that of the Ford Motor Company (or similar "entrepreneurial" corporations)? It starts with the radical idiosyncrasies of the Great Leader (Stalin, Henry Ford, Sr.), who is then replaced by nameless

Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Michael Perelman
Schumpeter? Jim Devine wrote: [*] Has anyone ever noticed the similarity between the development of the USSR and that of the Ford Motor Company (or similar "entrepreneurial" corporations)? It starts with the radical idiosyncrasies of the Great Leader (Stalin, Henry Ford, Sr.), who is then

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Brad De Long
On Fri, 12 May 2000, Louis Proyect wrote: very often of a seasonal nature. If you read Juliette Schor's "The Overworked American", you will discover that the average peasant worked half as many hours as the average proletarian during the rise of the industrial revolution. That is the

Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Brad De Long
Louis Proyect wrote: Either that or people actually *liked* having their teeth fall out... Brad DeLong I don't think the discussion is about dental hygeine. It is about the right of a Vietnamese in the 60s or a Colombian peasant today to not have napalm dropped on them because they

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread JKSCHW
In a message dated 00-05-13 17:05:51 EDT, you write: Either that or people actually *liked* having their teeth fall out... Brad DeLong Hey, Brad, revealed preferences, right? --jks

Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Jim Devine
At 02:33 AM 05/13/2000 -0700, you wrote: On Fri, 12 May 2000, Louis Proyect wrote: very often of a seasonal nature. If you read Juliette Schor's "The Overworked American", you will discover that the average peasant worked half as many hours as the average proletarian during the rise of the

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Jim Devine
At 01:35 PM 05/13/2000 -0400, you wrote: My understand of the shift from hunting and gathering to agriculture is that nutritional standards did decline, but so did the risk of starvation. Agricultural output was less uncertain. Maybe, but it's not unmixed progress. It's more a matter of a

Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread Dennis R Redmond
On Fri, 12 May 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: moreover, how would US develop its own capitalism without slave labor ( especially agricultural production in the South)? Ah, but Marx would insist on the relative antagonisms between rival modes of production: it's not that capitalism is identical

Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-13 Thread md7148
Dennis, I exactly argued the same. We are talking past to each other! See my previous post where I used the words "local" and "global" capitalism.. Mine There's local capitalism, regional, urban, national, international, multinational, financial, industrial, etc. and these modes of

Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-12 Thread md7148
Would _you_ have survived untill now without the US? Mine The more serious question is this: what *can* the Left offer as a developmental model to Vietnam? -- Dennis Cuba. Would Cuba have survived until 1989 without Soviet subsidies? Doug

Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)

2000-05-12 Thread Louis Proyect
Dennis: Nike's workers aren't slaves. They're proletarians. Do you have any idea of what rice farming without modern machinery is like? You wade around in a field all day, hunched over, getting sunburnt to a crisp, attacked by mosquitoes, flies, and leeches, and have to put up with endemic