Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:26:58 -0400
From: "Charles Brown" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:18012] Re: guns, germs, steel
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The US being what it is - real paranoia over race - I guess it is better to
"Ricardo Duchesne" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/12/00 12:42PM
The US being what it is - real paranoia over race - I guess it is better to
leave this subject untouched.
___
CB: Paranoia , in the sense of irrational and unfounded fear, is not an accurate way
to describe the US on
Logically, therefore, scholars and intellectuals of color
militantly critique books, lectures and other intellectual
expressions that express and reflect this white supremacy or racism.
Even liberal scholars can reflect white supremacy, such that one
part of their work is anti-racist, but
Brad De Long [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/12/00 12:33PM
Logically, therefore, scholars and intellectuals of color
militantly critique books, lectures and other intellectual
expressions that express and reflect this white supremacy or racism.
Even liberal scholars can reflect white supremacy,
Sam Pawlett wrote:
I forgot to add that the Carling theory seems to beg the question
since some societies have a higher level of pf's [productive forces]
because they select out others without explaining how theses socities
became that way in the first place.
Diamond initially explains why
Ricardo writes:
I dont know if this is a work of "total genius" but it is certainly a
masterful explanation for the differing patterns of development of
the continents of the world. But what is so troubling for many in the left
about this book is that it proves beyond a doubt that Africa's
Once every couple of weeks I play chess with John and Jeffrey. Jeffrey is a
long-time Nation subscriber and John, a lawyer by profession, is the kind
of New Yorker who voted for Giuliani. I usually let the two of them argue
politics since the gap between John and me is too wide to allow civil
What I got from the Diamond book was not The Naked Ape, but more of an
environmental history. The European/Asian regions that developed had access to
large draft animals and easily harvested seeds. Close proximity to the large
mammals created diseases for which these people had immunity, making
Quoth Louis P: As soon as it came out, he began waving Jared Diamond's
book in our face. "See," he shouted, "we had nothing to do with black
people's suffering."
His interpretation of the book is wrong. It sounds like he hadn't read the
book. It's always a big mistake to praise (or, for that
I dont know if this is a work of "total genius" but it is certainly a
masterful explanation for the differing patterns of development of
the continents of the world. But what is so troubling for many in the
left about this book is that it proves beyond a doubt that Africa's
backwardness was a
I do know that Jim Blaut makes a few dismissive comments in Diamond's
direction. Myself, I have yet to see anything in the reviews that would
make me want to delve into his book. I first stumbled across Diamond about
ten years ago, when reviews portrayed him as a sociobiologist in the Robert
the east African coast, the House of Peace, have a name from a
language whose heartland is two thousand miles north?
Because, he would say, that region is not Africa, that is, Black
Africa.
Why isn't Dar-es-Salaam considered part of Black Africa? For that matter,
what constitutes Black
CB: Thanks for this book review, Jim.
you're welcome
I was a little unclear. At first it seemed you were saying that the author
was explaining the conquests of the last 500 years. Then there seems to be
discussion going back to the origin of agriculture , which is 7,000 years
ago or so.
1) I have not followed the entire thread closely. Is a distinction being
made between pre- and post-Arabicization/Islamicization?
2) This is factually incorrect in either case.
Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
Egyptians, Tunisians, Moroccans, Libyans and others in the
Northern areas are "white".
Ricardo says that Diamond is a direct challenge to dependency theory. I
think that he would agree that institutions play a larger role after 1600
than before. He deals with before that time.
I've been browsing through Lexis-Nexis this afternoon on and off trying to
get a handle on Diamond. It
I agree with Lou. But on this an interesting exchange took place in Toronto
Star a few years ago. A Somalian refugee wrote a letter chastising the black
community for not doing more for refugees from that part of the world. Some one
responded that it was because they did not consider Somalians
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/10/00 03:22PM
I was a little unclear. At first it seemed you were saying that the author
was explaining the conquests of the last 500 years. Then there seems to be
discussion going back to the origin of agriculture , which is 7,000 years
ago or so.
I agree with Lou. But on this an interesting exchange took place in Toronto
Star a few years ago. A Somalian refugee wrote a letter chastising the black
community for not doing more for refugees from that part of the world.
Some one
responded that it was because they did not consider Somalians
Brad writes:
Ken Pomeranz's _The Great Divergence_ develops it to some degree--that the
very *success* of India and China at mobilizing resources gave them large
populations, and that Europe's earlier lack of success at mobilizing
resources gave at an extra edge of free resources that helped
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/10/00 05:05PM
this doesn't contradict Diamond, for what it's worth. His emphasis,
however, is on how the unity of the Chinese empire (success) implied later
failure due to lack of dynamism.
__
CB: This is consistent with the "law" of evolutionary
I've been browsing through Lexis-Nexis this afternoon on and off trying to
get a handle on Diamond. It appears that his theory lends itself to rather
clearcut differences between let's say the British settlers and the
aborigines of Australia and why one group conquered another. However, it
Because, he would say, that region is not Africa, that is, Black
Africa.
__
CB: What does being BLACK Africa have to do with "ecological/geographical
conditions" ? Sounds like Diamond has an inconsistent and racist theory.
Simply saying that one can, as Diamond does, draw
Michael wrote:
Jim Devine wrote have mentioned one other slightly Marx-like touch:
Diamond observes that a surplus is required before the superstructure of
the state can be erected. However, Diamond seems to be more of a
materialist than a Marxist since he does not concern himself with
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