Louis wrote:
... Part of the problem is that this discussion--pace Robert Brenner--has
not just a Eurocentric aspect, but a Yankee-centric one. Since capitalism
is a world system, we have to look at all its component parts not just the
vibrant American part which relies--pace Baran Sweezy--on
Brad wrote:
Well, my priestly sect right now are pretty confident that we're more like
the Egyptian priests telling people to plant when the dog star rises just
before dawn. The U.S. policy mix in the 1990s (where our advice was taken)
appears remarkably successful (social policy not so, as
At 08:04 PM 9/27/00 -0700, you wrote:
I suspect that the
majority of us here regard the leaders of Serbia, Croatia, the Bosnian
Muslims, and KLA leadership as equivalent scumbags.
We might want to rank these in terms of scumbagginess, but that would miss
the point. When the old Tito
At 07:18 PM 9/27/00 -0700, you wrote:
Jim, how important is the exchange rate for imports? I suspect that it is
a major influence on exports since U.S. goods compete directly with those
from other similar countries. We have our largest trade imbalance with
China. Chinese wages are so low
Michael Perelman wrote:
Someone recently posted an article from the Wall Street Journal, I believe, to
the effect that if unemployment has declined so little over such a long
expansion, it would be sure to skyrocket with an economic slowdown.
I think the argument was about productivity, not
Brad DeLong wrote:
But it is clear to me who the true heirs of the Nazis are.
The folks who recruited them for the CIA?
Doug
Carrol Cox wrote:
According to Doug (answering a question at the marxism 2000 plenary
he spoke at) the economics profession is intellectually and morally bankrupt.
(I think I have it right from memory. Doug can -- and no doubt will --
correct me if I'm wrong.)
Yeah, I got a little carried away
ensure that the Sun will appear again next year (Tenochtitlan).
Current economists are more like their Nazca counterparts, however,
in that while the "scientists" in Egypt or the Anahuac could show the
"results" of their practices (the Nile flooded the valley again, the
Sun always rose on the
There's another aspect to this notion of Eurocentrism. While I would tend
to side with Brenner's thesis about the importance of class relations in
the emergence of capitalism in Europe (Wallerstein is also Eurocentric in
that respect but relies on mercantile trade as the driving force), there
is
Brad DeLong wrote:
And Jagdish would say the reverse--that you are morally bankrupt for
not realizing that "opposition to sweatshops" in the world today
means taking people working in factories in Hermosillos and sending
them back to the farm...
Our old friend the false binary. In a better
G'day Doug,
Quoth you:
The overall poverty rate has
taken a sharp drop, and the black poverty rate is the lowest ever.
Yeah, I can make a list of all the things that are wrong - from
incarceration madness to an obscene wealth distribution - but this is
just a bit too gloomy even for me.
I was writing in response to what Gene Coyle mentioned: the anemic rate of growth.
I was merely suggesting that if the fall in unemployment has been so modest -- in
terms of rate of change rather than the absolute value -- over such a long
expansion, than a sharp downward turn could create
Rob Schaap wrote:
Yeah, Doug, but is it appropriate to discuss unemployment and poverty in
such parochial terms?
Yes I know all this. I write about it a lot even. What stuns me,
though, is the apparent inability of left economists to acknowledge
that some half-decent things have happened to
Doug, as one of the dour lefties on the list, I would mostly agree with you
but still ...
Couldn't we just as well ask how an 8 year expansion could have done so
little
Your note about the improbability of the expansion with the growing surplus
is worthy of note, but I think we have some
Doug, here are my questions:
1. Isn't this an "exhilirationist" expansion, marked by very high rates of
gross capital formation?
2. As such, doesn't it depend on and reproduce greater income inequality?
(Depend on, because capital goods must be purchased; reproduce because of the
rapid run-up
Michael Perelman wrote:
Also, the more secure job part still seems suspect. Do you have much to go
on beside the Stephanie Schmit (sp?) paper? Do you have a URL for the
paper?
It wasn't on the Milken Institute website. But her point was that
perceptions of the general risk of job loss were
Here is a letter I dashed off to the Chronicle of Higher Ed:
To the editor:
The news that a group of economists has urged college and university
administrators to look more favorably on sweatshops (Economists Take College
Presidents to Task for Joining Anti-Sweatshop Groups, Julianne Basinger,
Hi again, Doug,
Yes I know all this. I write about it a lot even.
That's where I get half of it. Just reminding you, is all. Ordered your
new book, too. At current cross-rates, they should be able to complete the
payments out of my estate ...
What stuns me,
though, is the apparent
The 10 year data can be interepreted in another way. Let me use the same example
I used earlier. Every member of our department with tenure or tenure track has
been here more than 10 years. Few new jobs are opening up, so the old hang on. A
larger percentage of our courses are taught by part
Rob Schaap:
I wouldn't begin to know how to save anyone. Jusy having a good look around
me, is all. Stuff's happening that's never happened before. What else is
different? The mode of imperialism, I'd say is one. IT, and the
booster-nonsense surrounding it, is another. America is completely
But I do think you have to consider this: the African American overall
unemployment rate is still at a rate that would be considered a recession if it
held for the overall economy. That means that in the "best of times" the best
that African Americans can expect is recession level unemployment.
Michael Perelman wrote:
The 10 year data can be interepreted in another way. Let me use the
same example
I used earlier. Every member of our department with tenure or
tenure track has
been here more than 10 years. Few new jobs are opening up, so the
old hang on. A
larger percentage of our
Forstater, Mathew wrote:
But I do think you have to consider this: the African American overall
unemployment rate is still at a rate that would be considered a
recession if it
held for the overall economy. That means that in the "best of times" the best
that African Americans can expect is
Louis Proyect wrote:
The US economy expanded under Reagan's
Rooseveltian deficit spending, while it expanded just as impressively under
Clinton's Hooverite economics. What is the constant? Keeping the rest of
the world under the heel of American corporations.
Real wages fell under Reagan;
Real wages fell under Reagan; they've risen in the last 5 years. The
black poverty rate barely budged in the 1980s; it's fallen sharply in
the 1990s. Despite the constancy of the underheel. But I guess the
U.S. working class doesn't matter, because they're the bought-off
dupes of imperialism.
I don't see the inconsistency. Massive waves of downsizing eliminated lots of good
jobs (instability). Later, those that could clung to their good jobs. The second
stage may not represent instability, but it does not reflect any progress either.
Doug Henwood wrote:
Michael Perelman wrote:
Michael Perelman wrote:
I don't see the inconsistency. Massive waves of downsizing
eliminated lots of good
jobs (instability). Later, those that could clung to their good
jobs. The second
stage may not represent instability, but it does not reflect any
progress either.
The glass is always
Because there are Ozzies on this list, I have a light-hearted question:
Today, US National Public Radio had a little story about the uniqueness of
Ozzie language ("English" in Australia). Some people were perturbed by the
fading of traditional Ozzie language under the sledgehammer blows of US
Louis Proyect wrote:
Doug seems to care little about what exists beyond the island,
"The island" is the place you I most PEN-Lers live. It's the
dominant power in the world. I sometimes think that obsession with
life off the island is a rationalization for disengagement from what
goes on
At 12:20 PM 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
I think the argument was about productivity, not unemployment. But still -
what are you talking about? The U.S. unemployment rate is the lowest since
January 1970, and the employment/pop ratio just a bit off being the
highest in history.
of course, a
I understand. But what I am saying is not just that there are problems, but
there is a particular kind of opportunity that presents itself when we are in a
period that pols and economists and the media all say is "the best of times."
This is "as good as it gets." There is a certain kind of
Jim Devine wrote:
another NPR story remarked unlike the Ozzies and the Kiwis, the "Yanks"
don't really have a cute nickname for themselves. What should it be?
I like Yanks because otherwise it would be hard to tell who won
the war of the slavedrivers' insurrection.
Carrol
another NPR story remarked unlike the Ozzies and the Kiwis, the "Yanks"
don't really have a cute nickname for themselves. What should it be?
I like Yanks because otherwise it would be hard to tell who won
the war of the slavedrivers' insurrection.
I forget: who won? it seems like most of
You are right, Louis, damned right in your comparison.
I have witnessed the mushrooming and growth of gated communities in Buenos
Aires, my home town, and they work as a clear reminder of the deep illnesses
in our society. The same happened in Santiago de Chile, where, ironies of
history, the
Doug:
"The island" is the place you I most PEN-Lers live. It's the
dominant power in the world. I sometimes think that obsession with
life off the island is a rationalization for disengagement from what
goes on on it.
The US is important. My only point is that it has no lessons to offer the
I tell my students that national defense, a clean environment, and the
legal system are "public goods." Because they can't be divided up into
individual bundles, because you can't exclude someone from the consumption
of them, and because one person's consumption of the good does not detract
Schaapster,
That's where I get half of it. Just reminding you, is all. Ordered your
new book, too. At current cross-rates, they should be able to complete the
payments out of my estate ...
You should check to make sure the size of your Sutton holdings haven't been
figured into the amount you
Peter Dorman wrote a great letter, even more powerful because of the restraint
shown. I would not have been able to resist adding that the College
Presidents should make all who signed the letter move on somewhere, maybe
to the physics departments.
Gene Coyle
Peter Dorman wrote:
Here is a letter
Eugene Coyle wrote:
Peter Dorman wrote a great letter, even more powerful because of the
restraint shown. I would not have been able to resist adding that the
College Presidents should make all who signed the letter move on
somewhere, maybe to the physics departments.
This seems rather
In "America's Forgotten Majority", Ruy Teixeira and Joel Rogers write that
"from 1973 to 1998, in an economy that almost doubled in real terms, the
wage of the typical worker in production and nonsupervisory jobs (80
percent of the workforce) actually declined by 6 percent, from $13.61 to
$12.77
Against the Current, Sept./Oct. 2000
Race and Class: Racism and the Wealth Gap
by MaIik Miah
POLITICIANS AND GOVERNMENT officials point to the historic low unemployment
level in the Black community as signs of a strong economy and a future
where whites and African Americans will finally have an
Forstater, Mathew wrote:
This is "as good as it gets." There is a certain kind of fed-upedness that
should come with that.
Yup. Which is one of the reasons I keep saying that "good times" may
be better for left politics than bad times.
Doug
Louis Proyect quoted:
Race and Class: Racism and the Wealth Gap
by MaIik Miah
An excerpt from my forthcoming book, A New Economy? (apologies for
any rough spots - this is unproofed and unedited):
Unfortunately, the major published report on the SCF (Kennickell at
al 2000) divides the
JDI tell my students that national defense, a clean environment, and the
legal system are "public goods." Because they can't be divided up into
individual bundles, because you can't exclude someone from the consumption
of them, and because one person's consumption of the good does not detract
BDL:
Well, my priestly sect right now are pretty confident that we're more
like the Egyptian priests telling people to plant when the dog star
rises just before dawn. The U.S. policy mix in the 1990s (where our
advice was taken) appears remarkably successful . . . .
Much as we morally
Doug Henwood wrote:
Forstater, Mathew wrote:
This is "as good as it gets." There is a certain kind of fed-upedness that
should come with that.
Yup. Which is one of the reasons I keep saying that "good times" may
be better for left politics than bad times.
That's my assumption too --
At 05:48 PM 09/28/2000 -0700, you wrote:
JDI tell my students that national defense, a clean environment, and the
legal system are "public goods." Because they can't be divided up into
individual bundles, because you can't exclude someone from the consumption
of them, and because one person's
In a message dated 9/28/00 12:24:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But it is clear to me who the true heirs of the Nazis are.
The folks who recruited them for the CIA?
Gather round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun
A man whose allegience
Is ruled by expedience
In a message dated 9/28/00 12:52:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So in effect
the two sides of this debate is that Brenner's explanation for the rise of
Europe has great merit but so does the argument made by other marxists
from the "periphery" (see also David
En relación a [PEN-L:2433] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re,
el 28 Sep 00, a las 8:37, Jim Devine dijo:
Brad wrote:
Well, my priestly sect right now are pretty confident that we're more
like the Egyptian priests telling people to plant when the dog star
rises just before dawn.
Oh, I missed that
En relación a [PEN-L:2436] Re: Re: (Fwd) Re: Re: Re: Re: debati,
el 28 Sep 00, a las 12:21, Doug Henwood dijo:
Brad DeLong wrote:
But it is clear to me who the true heirs of the Nazis are.
The folks who recruited them for the CIA?
Doug
No, the folks who waved "hellos" to the
En relación a [PEN-L:2462] Re: Re: ozzie language,
el 28 Sep 00, a las 14:04, Jim Devine dijo:
another NPR story remarked unlike the Ozzies and the Kiwis, the
"Yanks" don't really have a cute nickname for themselves. What
should it be?
I like Yanks because otherwise it would be
Jim, the exchange rate certainly helps to hold inflation in check, but I am not
sure how much it encourages imports. Are we on the same page?
Jim Devine wrote:
At 07:18 PM 9/27/00 -0700, you wrote:
Jim, how important is the exchange rate for imports? I suspect that it is
a major influence
another NPR story remarked unlike the Ozzies and the Kiwis, the "Yanks"
don't really have a cute nickname for themselves. What should it be?
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
The latest manifestation of empire isn't likely to be allowed a cute
nickname for
I understand that RN will be on TV tonight. How could he be as funny as
Bush? Slate reports
"It is clear our nation is reliant upon big foreign oil.
More and more of our imports come from
overseas."--Beaverton, Ore., Sept. 25, 2000
--
Michael
Brad DeLong wrote:
And Jagdish would say the reverse--that you are morally bankrupt
for not realizing that "opposition to sweatshops" in the world
today means taking people working in factories in Hermosillos and
sending them back to the farm...
Our old friend the false binary. In a better
Ah. Tom Lehrer...
Where oh where is his equal today?
Brad DeLong
Brad, Paul's comment slipped by me. It does appear to be a bit out of
line. I am surprised that you found people in the NSC that were
depressed by Tudjman since the U.S. does so much to aid him in his
ethnic cleansing.
You are I suspect in a distinct minority here. I suspect that the
majority
In a message dated 9/29/00 12:43:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Ah. Tom Lehrer...
Where oh where is his equal today?
Nowhere, then or now.
"in German oder Englisch I know how to count down
And I'm learning Chinese, says Wernher von Braun."
There is a true
Tó:ske
Taiaiake Alfred
Windspeaker Columnist
October 2000
Upholding the Rule of Law at Burnt Church.
Something wrong is happening out at Burnt Church, and it needs to stop.
There are crimes being committed on Miramichi Bay, and immediate action
should be taken to stop the criminals from
On PEN-L discussions about the health of the American economy never cease.
As most of the participants are licensed economists, they remind me a bit
of physicians looking over the X-Rays of a female patient. "That's clearly
a tumor." "No, I insist that it is a foetus."
Part of the problem is
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